dagblog - Comments for "LeBron James, Stephen Curry agree that next NBA champs won't visit the White House"

Thx barefooted. I think I

rmrd0000 — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 09:11:03 +0000

Thx barefooted. I think I understand your frustration. My responses serve to help explain to myself what I see going on. I have tried to tone down my posts. I attempt to express why Insee things differently than many people at dagblog. When the election was followed by Democrats yelling about identity politics, I was pissed off. It was another case of blacks being blamed for a loss. I don’t see the Trump deplorables as redeemable. That opinion does not stop me from having discussions with Conservatives. The ones I talk too seem to be in denial. Trump is flawed, but he did get court appointments. They have no problem dismissing Trump’ racism and bigotry. I don’t press the issue. There are no yelling patches. On a personal level my opinion of Conservatives is as low as whale feces.

I am told that I should not label Trump supporters as deplorable because we need their votes. I follow 538, and I see Trump’s approval rating increase. This happened despite Russiagate, Stormy, attacking allies, daily lies, etc. I get yelled at for calling out deplorables. I then ask what message they think the Democrats need to send to win over Trump supporters.There is silence. Then I get yelled at again. The Democrats have worked to save Obamacare, Block voter suppression, and expose immigrant children being held in cages. People still ask what is the message.

Trump left the G7 meeting with a speech praising Putin and Kim while calling allies thieves. Trump thinks that Canadians burned down the White House in 1812, years before Canada became a country. How can I not think people are stupid. These ignorant fools stood in silence because the guy who thought Canadians burned down the White House told them that Obama wasn’t born in the United States.

In order to survive, you had better be aware of what police department is the latest to abuse black people. What store did it’s best to embarrass a black person, what is the bigot in the White House saying. The Eagles are aware of life in the United States. Steph Curry and LeBron James understand Trump. NFL players were objecting to police killing and abusing unarmed black people. Trump wants the players to give him names of people they want pardoned. Trump is a bigot, he can’t change. Trump supporters are probably praising Trump for reaching out his hand in friendship. We are in different tribes. After Trump was elected, Obama wondered if whites wanted to stay in their own tribe.

The stories may seem repetitive. The stories are repetitive. That repetition is the point.

If you want me to change my opinion, get police to behave better. Get white folks to stop calling the police on blacks just living their lives.

Edit to add:

... and tell me your magic message that will convert Trump supporters into Democratic voters.

Note: This is addressed to those who argue that we need to do outreach

2nd Edit to add:

The protest in the NFL is about police abuse. It is not the players fault that the President and his supporters are not bright enough to realize that fact.

https://journalisms.theroot.com/is-the-president-aware-that-taking-the-knee-is-about-po-1826697485

Barber’s coalition is a thing

rmrd0000 — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 08:59:59 +0000

In reply to Thank you for the reply.

Barber’s coalition is a thing of beauty, as was that of Dr. King. The Parkland kids set a modern example of white Progressives realizing the need to reach out to ethnic minorities. That outreach was not the message that was sent out by some Progressives after the 2016 election. The message was that “identity politics” was bad. Bernie Sanders carried this message. Sanders is now marching with BlackLivesMatter. Coalitions are important. When black women activists wrote a letter to the DNC demanding more black women in seats of power in the organization, many Progressives were not happy. The DNC had to be dragged into creating a coalition. Sanders had to be dragged into creating a coalition.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/1/8/16849720/black-voters-women-midterm-2018

Black women are running for office and having success. Stacey Abrams made history by being the first black woman to win the election for Governor of won of the two major parties. Her opponent ran a campaign focused on winning over Republican voters.Here is Abrams on how she ran her campaign.

I built a campaign that’s been very different from a lot of campaigns that preceded me. Rather than spending a lot of money trying to convert Republicans into Democrats, I’m spending the bulk of our resources encouraging voters who share our values, Democratic-leaning voters and independent thinkers, so that they know that if they vote, they actually will get a different result. Because what’s really happened is that the unheard and unseen have given up. And I believe that with the right candidate and the right message and the right investment, we can turn them into active voters.

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/6/4/meet_stacey_abrams_democrat_who_could

I agree with Abrams. I don’t see many Republicans becoming Democrats. I believe in coalitions, I don’t think Republicans believe in coalitions.

Thank you for the reply.

AmericanDreamer — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 05:07:48 +0000

In reply to Given the time, with a push

Thank you for the reply.

The point of coalition politics, of the sort Barber has been working to build in North Carolina, is for the groups making it up not to throw one another under the bus.

Barber was elected state chair of North Carolina's chapter of the NAACP. He traveled all around the state. Among his conclusions (p.48-54):

"..we needed something more--a coalition that extended beyond the base of the NAACP to include others who were concerned about justice and the good of the whole. The advancement of colored people had to be central..but the NAACP's own history showed us that black folk can never move forward by ourselves. We had to find a way to stand with others, acknowledging their connections with us and their issues. Dr. King had understood this...

Thinking about the people I'd met across the state, I started to sketch a list of fourteen justice tribes in North Carolina...

Our new coalition partners decided to call a major teach-in and a march for citizens...declaring it North Carolina's first People's Assembly...we came up with a fourteen-point agenda...

(Several steps later)

Because our agenda was comprehensive, covering fourteen issue areas where we could move forward together with specific action steps, many asked us in the weeks following our assembly.."Which issues are your priority for this session? What do you want to achieve first?"

We explained that, for us, every issue was equally important....we knew our history. The power of the abolitionist movement through the nineteenth century, the fusionist movement in the post-Reconstructionist era, and the civil rights movement in the mid-twentieth century was always the same: a diverse coalition of people with a shared moral concern, refusing to be divided by fear or intimidation..."

(End of quote)

I'll offer an unsolicited suggestion, meant as a friendly one: consider giving attention and support on issues in addition to race on occasion. If the only issues you care about are racial issues that probably will not help. I am guessing that is not the case. But you may need or want to demonstrate this.

Re coalition politics and coalitions, many challenges go along with such an approach. If there is success enough putting together a coalition that can command the attention of a legislature you can know in advance that members of legislatures will seek to weaken, divide, or destroy the coalition by accepting only some among the demands (more or less inevitable in the normal workings of legislatures anyway) which can easily result in coalition groups in conflict with one another over whose issues are getting early traction and the most attention.

The way to keep the coalition together in order to continue pressing ahead on remaining issues is for coalition members to not throw one another under the bus, but rather to stick together and continue to press for all issues the coalition is committed to advancing.

That requires the development of some measure of trust and where it occurs will also build trust. It is not easy to do, among other reasons because people are people. If anyone suggested that any of this is easy, they were mistaken. Nevertheless, it can be done and has been done.

From his overall comments

barefooted — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 01:46:33 +0000

In reply to P.S. Comes to mind that I've

From his overall comments over time, it seems to be fed by an emotional passion that says: tempering on this does no good, be in their face with the anger and frustration.

From his perspective, as a black man in today's world, can you honestly blame him? And if you can, do you have a better solution, as a white woman, than he does? I don't. Like you and others, I become frustrated when constantly hit in the face with his repetition and links ad nauseam, comments that turn any subject matter into a seemingly racial catastrophe and statements that are written as drumbeats rather that comments. (Please hear this, rm.) But, but, but ... he is doing what he needs to do in the way he needs to do it where he can. He doesn't back down no matter what we all say and how long/often we say it. We deride him for that, yet do we fault others for standing their ground on issues that we find more appealing and less aggravating? He believes - no, he knows - that his life is at stake every day, as is the life of every person of color (funny how it used to be colored people) in this country and others. I admire him (please hear this, too, rm) even as I try to understand where he's coming from, because he keeps explaining it over and over and over again and it's driving me nuts. Maybe that's the point; and maybe that's what we need.

I said that in face to face

rmrd0000 — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 00:58:36 +0000

In reply to Re: I do not name-call.

Trump has the support of the majority of Republican voters

They are not complying about his racism

They are not complaining about children locked in cages in any significant way.

They support Trump over everything

I said that in face to face

rmrd0000 — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 00:55:37 +0000

In reply to Re: I do not name-call.

I said that in face to face discussions I do not name all. You know that. Let me be very clear, I think that Kanye West is stupid. Trump supporters have a vote Kanye West has a vote. I argue for getting out the vote to counter those votes. You createa strawman argument like you always do.

This is a blog. I am free to express my opinion. I have no impact on anyone else’s vote. None. Zero. In face to face discussions, I do note name call. I present facts about why saying that the Mueller is run by Democrats is not factual. I ask if Comey was in Hillary’s pocket, why did he make comments about her email server just before the election.

You were the one who provided a link to a WaPo book review that says Trump can energize his base by making racist and bigoted statements. The more I see your arguments, the more I feel justified in my position.

Re: I do not name-call.

artappraiser — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 23:27:23 +0000

In reply to Been through this before. In

Re: I do not name-call.

On that I want to precisely repeat what American Dreamer challenged you on, upthread, this single comment:

Trump and his supporters are not very bright. Trump thought that Canadians set fire to the White House in 1812. He also thought that Frederick Douglass was still alive.

But in the recent past, Kanye West thinks slavery is a choice and you don't call him "not very bright" you said his problem was that he doesn't read books. (I did call him stupid, I admit it! I have no qualms about calling individual rich celebrities names, you see. Who I don't like to see called names is tribes, I like to see groups practice tolerance)

If you think people should be tested on American history before they can vote or hold office, say so. But don't expect you won't be slammed for doing that by small d democrats. Its offensive. Its offensive to see it applied if you have friends or family who are not highly educated or even illiterate.

I think that would probably leave a lot of black voters as well as Trump voters and Kanye West without voting rights and without rights to run for office.It is precisely the reason for the old fight against poll testing.

It all depends on what you are educated about. What you are criticizing here, this is not about brightness or intellect, it is about education. I know one attorney who thinks dinosaurs and humans walked together on the earth.

The main point that should go over all of this: most believers in democracy believe in one person, one vote, even if you are illiterate! That's what it's all about. You may have to win a lot of uneducated voters over and voters with emotional prejudices and various hatreds, that's part of the democracy thing, it's also part of the danger of populism thing.

Our system is actually set up so that minority rights (including minority tribes, to be blunt) are protected by the courts, not by the other two branches. If you're not with the majority, you: go to the courts, or you play culture wars with the uneducated smarter than the other guy and change things that way. Or you get in line and form coalitions with other minorities or the majority! Electorally, the only way is to: forge a majority somehow, that's democracy. Minorities who disagree are out of luck. But you continually harp on the "black" minority, whoever still feels they have percent enough blackness to still call themselves that rather than "mixed", as if sticking together against everyone else and waiting for everyone else to give in and come and please this minority tribe and apologize for all past sins is going to work.

Actually calling people not bright like you did, what that does: feeds the "liberal elites" meme that helped Trump win, that feeds the populist reaction worldwide.. Make no mistake that it is a very popular meme, worldwide. They are sick and tired of being treated like they are stupid by elites. It's also a very popular meme among all colors of underclass that liberal elite politicos are only out to serve themselves and their friends. That the very same disdain and look down upon the under-educated. Those are the tribes I think American Dreamer is rightly more concerned about. Oceankat, too, with the false narratives thing.

Frankly, folllowing your comments for a long time, you don't seem to care a wit about any underclass. Just skin color uber alles, as if there were no rich people with dark skin and poor people with dark skin have nothing in common with poor people with white skin. And your rhetoric mainly sounds like you went to sleep around 1979 and just woke up.

Given the time, with a push

rmrd0000 — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 23:01:19 +0000

In reply to The New Deal question is

Given the time, with a push to prove that you were patriotic and for black respect ability at the time, Improbably would have shoved them under the bus. In 2018, I’d be criticizing that action.

The New Deal question is

rmrd0000 — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 22:53:46 +0000

In reply to Trump has the support of 87%

The New Deal question is interesting. Roosevelt did move to improve conditions for blacks. Blacks of the time probably threw the interned Japanese under the bus.

http://www.pbs.org/tpt/slavery-by-another-name/themes/fdr/

Trump has the support of 87%

rmrd0000 — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 22:45:58 +0000

In reply to First, I am not talking about

Trump has the support of 87% of Republican voters.

https://qz.com/1295674/donald-trump-now-owns-the-republican-party/

It is is hard to separate the GOP from Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/07/trump-is-the-republican-party-and-the-party-is-trump/?utm_term=.6e510e2e343a

I view Trump and the GOP as a single entity.

Just like John Boehner

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/31/politics/john-boehner-republican-party/index.html