dagblog - Comments for "Trouble at the Red Hen"

Mitch McConnell was heckled

rmrd0000 — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 13:17:50 +0000

In reply to Trouble at the Red Hen

Mitch McConnell was heckled at a second restaurant

https://www.eater.com/2018/7/10/17552760/mitch-mcconnell-restaurant-dinner-protesters-ice

I looked this up because I

artappraiser — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 00:33:52 +0000

In reply to Waters advocated civil

[Edited later just to fix where italics should go.]

I looked this up because I wanted to hear it for myself. From the horse's mouth, what she said, everyone can judge for themselves:

I found it on the conservatively-slanted site, Real Clear Politics, so they obviously feel it is of benefit to their side to post it verbatim. They just put it with the title Maxine Waters Warns Trump Cabinet: "The People Are Going To Turn" On You and no commentary, just this intro:

Saturday on MSNBC, Rep. Maxine Waters said she had "no sympathy for the people in this administration" who "know what they are doing is wrong." She suggested citizens should be "screaming in the streets" and should "harass", and protest members of the Trump administration at department stores, restaurants, and gas stations until they quit.

They also had this from the MSNBC transcript:

MAXINE WATERS: I have no sympathy for these people that are in this administration who know it’s wrong for what they’re doing on so many fronts. They tend to not want to confront this president or even leave, but they know what they’re doing is wrong. I want to tell you, these members of his cabinet who remain and try to defend him, they won’t be able to go to a restaurant, they won’t be able to stop at a gas station, they’re not going to be able to shop at a department store. The people are going to turn on them.

They’re going to protest. They’re absolutely going to harass them until they decide that they’re going to tell the president, ‘No, I can’t hang with you.’ This is wrong. This is unconscionable. We can’t keep doing this to children.

We’ve got to push back. We’ve got to say no. I, for example, have stepped way out there. I said this man needs to be impeached. I know a lot of people think we’re not ready to say that. Some people have said a long time ago he would become presidential. He will never be presidential. This man does not have any good values. I believe he needs to be impeached. As a matter of fact, a long time before he’s doing what he’s doing now with these children. I think he had done enough to undermine this country and to have us understand we cannot trust him, that we should have come with an impeachment resolution. So, I believe we cannot wait until the next presidential election. We have to resist him. I want to see him impeached.

She's Maxine Waters, for

barefooted — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 22:32:58 +0000

In reply to I looked this up because I

She's Maxine Waters, for goodness sakes. Have you ever heard of her? Ever heard her speak? If her words were suddenly coming from the mouth of, say, Amy Klobuchar, I might raise an eyebrow. But from Maxine it's just Tuesday. And like most every other Tuesday, I like what I hear. No, I wouldn't say what she says, but my job isn't hers. I don't have the microphone to use as she does, or, frankly, the background to give me the right that she has to say what she damned well pleases. So I can disagree, I can complain, I can fight or I can sit back - but I can't be Maxine Waters. She's got that down.

San Bernardino DA’s comments

rmrd0000 — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 18:13:46 +0000

In reply to I looked this up because I

San Bernardino DA’s comments had to be altered for public consumption by most publications

——-

Michael Selyem, the lead hard-core gang prosecutor in the San Bernardino County District Attorney’s Office, is under internal investigation for a series of offensive posts on social media accounts that have now been deleted. (Staff photo by Jennifer Cappuccio Maher/The Sun/SCNG)

Among Selyem’s inappropriate online posts was an online argument he had with someone over the police shooting of a civilian. In it, he wrote, “That s—bag got exactly what he deserved. … You reap what you sow. And by the way go fyourself you liberal s—bag.”

Selyem also targeted outspoken U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters, former first lady Michelle Obama, and Mexican immigrants.

Of Waters, Selyem said: “Being a loud-mouthed (expletive) in the ghetto you would think someone would have shot this bitch by now …” He also posted a doctored picture of Michelle Obama holding a sign saying, “Trump grabbed my penis.”

——-

https://www.sbsun.com/2018/07/09/san-bernardino-county-gang-prosecutor-suspended-for-offensive-social-media-rants-civil-rights-activists-demand-his-firing/

Trump quotes suggesting violence

——-

February 2016, during his campaign for president, Trump told a crowd in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, "So I got a little notice. We have wonderful security guys. It said, ‘Mr. Trump, there may be somebody with tomatoes in the audience.’ So if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Just knock the hell .... I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise."

As a review of the video shows, Trump is not smiling or chuckling as if this was intended as a joke.

Other examples of Trump speaking favorably of violence

On several other occasions, Trump invoked violence without necessarily inciting it. (Hat tips to the Washington Post’s Aaron Blake and Mashable for collecting a number of these in one place.)

• August 2015. At a press conference in Michigan, Trump contrasted his interactions with the public with those of Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders, who had recently faced opposition from Black Lives Matter protesters.

"That will never happen with me," said Trump, according to a dispatch by the Washington Post’s David Weigel. "I don't know if I'll do the fighting myself, or if other people will. It was a disgrace. I felt badly for him, but it showed that he was weak. You know what? He's getting the biggest crowds, and we're getting the biggest crowds. We're the ones getting the crowds. But that's never going to happen to Trump."

• November 2015. At a rally in Alabama, Trump said about a protester, "Get him the hell out of here, will you, please? Get him out of here. Throw him out!"

The following day, calling into Fox News, Trump responded to a question about allegations that the protester had been "roughed up." The protester, Trump said, had been "so obnoxious and so loud ... maybe he should have been roughed up. Maybe he should have been roughed up. Because it was totally disgusting what he was doing."

• February 2016. At a rally in Las Vegas, Trump again responded to a protester:

"See, he’s smiling. See, he’s having a good time. Oh, I love the old days, you know? You know what I hate? There's a guy, totally disruptive, throwing punches. We're not allowed to punch back anymore. I love the old days, you know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They'd be carried out in a stretcher, folks. Oh, it's true. … The guards are very gentle with him. He’s walking out with big high-fives, smiling, laughing. I’d like to punch him in the face, I’ll tell you,"

• March 2016. At one point at a rally in Michigan, Trump reiterated his pledge to pay legal fees for people who remove protesters. "Get him out," Trump said. "Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court, don't worry about it." (Trump later said he had never made the pledge to pay legal fees.)

• March 2016. At an event in Palm Beach, Fla., Trump referred to a past incident with protesters. "We have had a couple that were really violent, and the particular one when I said I'd like to bang him, that was a very — he was a guy who was swinging, very loud and then started swinging at the audience and the audience swung back, and I thought it was very, very appropriate. He was swinging, he was hitting people, and the audience hit back, and that’s what we need a little bit more of."

• March 2016. At a rally in North Carolina, Trump said, "In the good old days this doesn't happen because they used to treat them very, very rough. And when they protested once, they would not do it again so easily. But today they walk in and they put their hand up and they put the wrong finger in the air at everybody. And they get away with murder, because we’ve become weak."

• March 2016. At a rally in St. Louis, Trump once again addressed protesterswho were being removed from the facility.

"Part of the problem and part of the reason it takes so long (to remove the protesters) is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore, right? And they're being politically correct the way they take them out. So it takes a little bit longer. And honestly, protesters they realize it -- they realize there are no consequences to protesting anymore. There used to be consequences. There are none anymore."

• March 2016. At a rally in Kansas City, talking about someone who had rushed the stage, Trump said, "I don't know if I would have done well, but I would have been out there fighting, folks. I don't know if I'd have done well, but I would've been — boom, boom, boom. I'll beat the crap out of you."

——-

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jul/05/sarah-huckabee-sanders/has-donald-trump-never-promoted-or-encouraged-viol/

I see no equivalence between Waters calling for civil disobedience and the above comments

Waters advocated civil

rmrd0000 — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:34:36 +0000

In reply to Birthright Citizens.

Waters advocated civil disobedience, not violence. Trump and the deputy DA in San Bernardino imply they want violence.

Tribes can be things of beauty. Tribes working together can accomplish great things. The problem with Schumer and Pelosi is that their tribal response was to criticize Waters, immediately upsetting another allied tribe.It was an unforced error. It supports a belief that current Democratic leadership is old and out of touch. They are creating division.

Thx for supplying the title,

Birthright Citizens.

AmericanDreamer — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:05:53 +0000

In reply to We are tribal. Democratic

Birthright Citizens.

Since when did Rep. Waters become exempt from quibbling or disagreement with some of her actions? I don't agree with Pelosi or Schumer on some decisions they make. You're trying to set up a "you either have Maxine's back or you're for the ________ (fill in the blank) Democratic party congressional leadership" morality play. But that particular straw man response won't wash. I appreciate the efforts of Rep. Waters and I appreciate the efforts of Rep. Pelosi and Sen. Schumer. Even when I disagree with them.

The hope, with discussions of tribalism, at least the hope I had in raising it, is that there might be interest in understanding it with a view towards, if not transcending, then at least channeling it. You seem in this comment to be having the opposite reaction. You seem to be embracing tribal reactions as something that not only often is, but should appropriately be, overriding, without any effort to understand, reason about, and deal with each situation for what it is.

I think you're playing fast and loose with casual statements re violence. You don't seem to give a damn if innocent people end up being harmed on account of a deliberate escalation in the toxicity of the current climate that you seem to be advocating. Are you sure that's where you want to go? At this point I find it hard to take seriously any notion that you actually want, as you say you do, Democrats to do well in November. If the attitudes and mindsets you seem to be advocating get traction that will set back that effort.

We are tribal. Democratic

rmrd0000 — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 18:21:00 +0000

In reply to And now the stuff with

We are tribal. Democratic leadership seems weak and clueless. Why openly criticize Waters? The NYT has an article about the battle for leadership in both parties. On the Democratic side many are concerned that the leadership is too old and there is no succession plan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/us/politics/house-leadership-republicans-democrats.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

With no vigorous challenge to Trump from Democratic leadership, individuals are taking things in their own hands. Most of the base doesn’t care if Trump officials can’t have meals in peace or if a racist like Bannon is confronted in public. Armed people showed up at Obama rallies. We may be seeing a new norm with people at each other’s throats in public.

BTW, what is the name of the book?

Edit to add:

A San Bernardino assistant DA wonders why Maxine Waters hasn’t been shot.

https://blackamericaweb.com/2018/07/09/deputy-d-a-michael-selyem-who-wonders-why-ghetto-maxine-waters-hasnt-been-shot-targeted-by-activist/

And now the stuff with

AmericanDreamer — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 15:27:36 +0000

In reply to This one story strikes me

And now the stuff with McConnell. Who knows where this spiral goes? Other, mostly rhetorical questions: We need this why? To keep our base fired up and motivated to show up? At this point, with all that's gone down?

We can be pretty sure that when others are in power we are going to see some of this type of stuff as well. I dunno, I guess some are at the point of saying "Screw it, bring it on." I know--haven't I gotten the memo that the cool people are the courageous anti-snowflakes who will swear loudly in public and cause the treasonous scumbag Senate Majority leader to up his security detail at home?

I was at a talk in DC yesterday, on a book about ways black people in circa 1850s Baltimore "performed" acts of citizenship. The author made a point that part of the political culture there at that time--Baltimore was known as gang city then and was controlled by nativist hoodlums--was gangs gathering on street corners on Election Day to, um, encourage voters to vote in particular ways. Many courts and other public and private places of business closed on election day, and many residents minimized their time venturing out in public for this reason. One of the performative acts of citizenship some blacks engaged in was going to court to seek permits to own a gun. They were sometimes allowed to do so. Citizenship-like status, or as close as they could get to it, for Baltimore blacks, the book author found, was above all else about attempting to protect oneself from involuntary relocation out of state by Maryland authorities.

On hearing the author note the presence of gangs of thugs occupying street corners on election day in 1850's Baltimore to try to intimidate voters, a seasoned white woman in the audience commented, referring to the present day in the U.S., "Yes, well, we're getting there." Today's thugs, because they are thugs and because they can, support the purchasing of legislators and legislation to prevent others of choice from voting. No need, yet, for the street-corner thugs.

I did election protection work outside a polling place in a black community in southern Virginia on election day 2004. This was volunteer work involving standing outside polling places in, usually, black areas to establish a presence and be available to try to resolve any issues that might come up with people being turned away from voting. Also being available to phone in if there was evidence of any sort of funny business going on systematically, when there might be enough time to do something about it before the polls closed.

A local white official chatted me up/sized me up for a few minutes before moving on along. I was unarmed. And would have been had Virginia been an open carry state. My only "armor" was the suit and tie I chose to wear, on a warm fall day. There was no trouble. It was near closing time at the poll. I decided to go door to door at a housing project development across the street to encourage those registered to vote while they still could. Kerry lost Virginia. My partner, a family friend, and I heard the depressing news that the courageous vet lost to the draft dodger in the national election as well in the car ride on the way back to northern Virginia that night.

I am surprised that there

rmrd0000 — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 13:35:37 +0000

In reply to This one story strikes me

I am surprised that there haven’t been confrontations before. There are more to come.

This one story strikes me

artappraiser — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 09:02:02 +0000

In reply to Trouble at the Red Hen

This one story strikes me that this sort of thing involving businesses might just devolve into tit for tat with no real winners:

Bookstore owner calls police after customer confronted Steve Bannon

By Morgan Gstaleter @ The Hill.com - 07/07/18 10:38 PM EDT

[....] Nick Cooke, owner of Black Swan Books, told The Richmond Times-Dispatch that a woman called Bannon a “piece of trash.”

The woman then left the store after Cooke said he called 911.

“Steve Bannon was simply standing, looking at books, minding his own business. I asked her to leave, and she wouldn’t. And I said, ‘I’m going to call the police if you don’t,’ and I went to call the police and she left,” Cooke said. “And that’s the end of the story.”

Bannon grew up in Richmond, the newspaper noted [....]