dagblog - Comments for "Francis Fukuyama and Kwame Anthony Appiah take on identity politics"

Fukuyama has argued for a

moat — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 00:31:35 +0000

Fukuyama has argued for a long time which kinds of agents can change a situation or not. I don't see any reason to discuss him without referring to these propositions.

It’s genuinely quite

artappraiser — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 00:18:04 +0000

In reply to Francis Fukuyama and Kwame Anthony Appiah take on identity politics

It’s genuinely quite prescient about many elements of contemporary politics and even has a funny specific reference to Donald Trump. https://t.co/HhzYxKjkV0 pic.twitter.com/J1JoG0TE6w
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) September 5, 2020

How Nationalism Can Destroy a

artappraiser — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 03:09:29 +0000

In reply to Francis Fukuyama and Kwame Anthony Appiah take on identity politics

How Nationalism Can Destroy a Nation

Citizens must have things in common and must also agree to forget many other things.

By Lewis Hyde Lewis Hyde is the author of, most recently, “A Primer for Forgetting: Getting Past the Past.”

@ NYTimes.com, Aug. 21, 2019

The element of the analysis

moat — Sat, 27 Apr 2019 01:38:28 +0000

In reply to i think Fukuyama is trying to

The element of the analysis that I have been objecting to is how his theory of motivation is applied to provide a replacement for stated goals in some instances and as a proof of intent in others. As a part of his story for what is going on, it suffers from a surplus of binary thinking.

The reason people work as a group has as much to do with conditions placed upon them as any psychological drive of individual participants to do what they do. There is no compulsion in Fukuyama's system, only exclusion versus inclusion.

So when people try to change things, it is not just because "they" want to be seen in the Ralph Ellison sense of identity but because they want the situation to change. And there are limited number of ways of that happening. Fukuyama claims that people want groupiness for their own sake. Actual groups are made up of people who can barely tolerate each other.

Do I focus on issues of race?

rmrd0000 — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 18:34:51 +0000

In reply to What drives me nuts is that

Do I focus on issues of race? Yes. Do I trust gummint to have my interests at heart because of my race. No. Is it pity olympics? No. Do you deny that gummint is actively working to suppress black votes? Do you agree that on matters of health care, blacks suffer? Take black maternal mortality as one example. The black maternal mortality rate is about 3X higher than for white women. It took pressure for this issue to be pushed to the mainstream. A tribe made sure that this issue became important. If the tribe waited on the National Creed to address the issue, nothing would have happened.

The U.S. has the worst maternal mortality rate among all developed countries, and though the rate has been falling in other nations, it has been rising in the U.S. in recent years.

Warren called out the “specific problem” facing women of color: The risk of pregnancy-related deaths for black women is three to four times higher than for white women, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Tennis star Serena Williams and singer Beyoncé, in her recently released Netflix documentary “Homecoming,” have publicly discussed the difficulties and complications they faced in childbirth.

“The best studies that I’ve seen put it down to just one thing: prejudice,” Warren said Wednesday. “Doctors and nurses don’t hear African American women’s medical issues the same way as they hear the same things from white women.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elizabeth-warren-black-maternal-mortality_n_5cc0e93fe4b0ad77ff7f717b

I prefer tribes protesting kidnapping of Latino babies and treatment of Muslims over your pity olympic critiques that waits for the national creed to address a problem.

Edit to add:

You don’t get to decide the common good. The country would have had Martin Luther King Jr. halt protests because the Russians could use the racial dissent to attack capitalism and promote communism as a better alternative.

What drives me nuts is that

artappraiser — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 16:16:04 +0000

In reply to The 4 or 5 “outs” is the

What drives me nuts is that you don't even realize that your are one and the same with Grover Norquist and Alito conservatives,your ideas are not liberal, in the end you don't want big federal government with a common good ethos, you want little tribes running their own worlds on a local level. Quakers in Pennsylvania, Catholics in Maryland, don't tread on me with your big gummint. I.E. Roger Williams, the dissenter who clashed with the Massachusetts Puritans over separation of church and state, founded the colony of Rhode Island to the south. Furthermore, you do it by race, you're racist, you seem to have a lot invested in making sure that everyone at Dagblog knows all people with black skin are different from everyone else, constantly, all the time. Why this crusade has to be done at Dagblog is the real mystery, given the audience here.

The 4 or 5 “outs” is the

rmrd0000 — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 14:42:39 +0000

In reply to i think Fukuyama is trying to

The 4 or 5 “outs” is the problem. Liberal democracies were supposed to follow the fall of Communism, instead populists took over democracies. Fukuyama.can still argue that he was correct because he had 4 or 5 “outs”

What Fukuyama calls identity politics is not going away. Society will survive and the authoritarians will lose. Tribes will form coalitions to defat the tribalists. Fukuyama will then say that he always said tribes had legitimate grievances and they won out in the end.

i think Fukuyama is trying to

PeraclesPlease — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 05:18:01 +0000

In reply to I get how Fukuyama does not

i think Fukuyama is trying to *analyze* issues, including racial divisions, not "get them" in a binary type of what's acceptable behavior for someone's tribe. The fact that he had 4 or 5 ways of framing them (among more) must have given black-and-white logicians truly horrors.

I get how Fukuyama does not

moat — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 01:01:25 +0000

In reply to Great question. If the KKK is

I get how Fukuyama does not get racial divisions on a fundamental level but that lack of understanding does not touch upon the linchpin of his argument. His idea that the desire for recognition is the engine of why people resist the existing order excludes the consideration that the frigging liberal order he celebrates came about exactly through that sort of thing.

And on the basis of that consideration, I stand by my earlier arguments that "identity politics" is a fool's game and should be abandoned by everybody, including you.

Who ever that may be.

That deserves a Fukyurama.

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:59:53 +0000

In reply to What Fukuyama’s calls

That deserves a Fukyurama.