dagblog - Comments for "Beauty Is More Diverse Than Ever. But Is It Just a Trend?"

A better example of tribalism

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:33:25 +0000

In reply to I'm not much interested in

A better example of tribalism is that birth control was an obvious sane precaution against pregnancy supposrted by everyone, left and right, but slowly the right-wingers convinced thwir tribe that birth cintrol is a form of abortion, thus murder. Kavanaugh is one of the high priests for this kind of Overton Window - one reason he should be rejected is he supports tribal allegiance and hegemony over facts and legal precedents.

I'm not much interested in

ocean-kat — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:18:58 +0000

In reply to Sounds familiar, from medium

I'm not much interested in these discussions of tribalism and this article doesn't resonate with me at all. I don't see or understand the world in terms of tribalism and this article seems to push conflicts that I don't see any tribal influence into the tribalism box. Perhaps among the uneducated voters act out of tribalism but it doesn't seem to have nearly the amount of influence that all this discussion signifies.

There seems to be a lot of stupid coming out of the Trump world and calling it out isn't tribal imo. While I reject the idea that they're all racist and that it's useless to attempt to reach out to any Trump voter I think it's undeniable that there's a significant amount of racism among Trump's base and that's at least a significant minority of the republican party. An honest discussion of that reality isn't toxic.

For me the partisanship isn't about tribalism but a very real difference in policy. Take abortion. The position of the vast majority of democrats is that it should be legal. While there are some differences in the exact degree of legality legality is the standard. The vase majority of republicans want abortion to be banned. For some with only rare exceptions for rape and incest. It's not tribalism that drives the division. These are positions so at odds with each other there is no room for compromise.

Or let us consider climate change and the environment. The democratic position is to increase the amount of renewable energy sources and the other side wants to increase the use of carbon producing energy sources. Trump has gone so far as to propose using the excuse of national security to force power plants to continue using coal rather than switching to natural gas. That's not tribalism. That's a very real and fundamentally opposed policy difference.

Your link includes atheism and theism on it's list of tribal conflicts. I fail to see how that's a tribal conflict in todays world. The new atheist movement is simply attempting to have a 21st century conversation about these mostly first century schools of thought. The power of Christianity in America has lessened and formerly taboo subjects can more openly be discussed. The internet has made these conversation available to the masses were they used to be more restricted to the elite. Therefore the atheist movement has gotten more publicity and popularity.

It's true that Hitchens can be insulting but that's just his schtick. He plays the rogue with witty jabs. But by far most of his discussion is clear rational arguments to support his views. Harris, by design I'm sure, is as unemotional as possible and limits his speech to solely rational arguments. He simply refuses to react to any jab from the other side. I just don't see how any of these debates and discussion on religion v atheism is an example of tribalism and especially toxic tribalism.

I've weighed in on the subject here because rmrd has pushed it and embraced tribalism as a positive force when I see it as a negative. But I don't really see tribalism as a determinative force in most of these conflicts.

Sounds familiar, from medium

artappraiser — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 04:38:19 +0000

In reply to I think you're giving him

Sounds familiar, from medium.com

What is toxic tribalism and where does it stem from?

Firstly, let’s provide a definition of what toxic tribalism is.

Toxic Tribalism: A loyalty to one’s own tribe or social group to the point that dogma and dysfunction become the standard.

Let me provide 2 key characteristics in which an individual has become drunk with toxic tribalism:

Demonization — This is the first and foremost quality of someone who is toxically tribal. If there is any labeling of the other group as being “stupid,” “evil,” “racist,” “demons,” “scum,” so on and so forth then you can almost be sure that they are in the mindset of toxic tribalism.

Unconscious Behavior & Attitudes — One of the hallmarks of someone who is engrossed in toxic tribalism is a lack of conscious behavior. Unconscious behavior comes in many forms such as screaming, not entertaining contradictory ideas, being closed minded, violence, and the list goes on. You cannot be dogmatic if you are truly conscious in the present moment. Dogmatic behavior can only take place in unconsciousness.

“Parents and schools should place great emphasis on the idea that it is all right to be different. Racism and all the other ‘isms’ grow from primitive tribalism, the instinctive hostility against those of another tribe, race, religion, nationality, class or whatever. You are a lucky child if your parents taught you to accept diversity.” (Roger Ebert)

As Yogi Berra said, "You can

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 21:31:30 +0000

In reply to Joe Strummer the guitarist?

As Yogi Berra said, "You can look it up."

Joe Strummer the guitarist?

ocean-kat — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 21:28:01 +0000

In reply to For a while the Who were

Joe Strummer the guitarist? What is that like Joe Six pack or Joe Lunch Pail? You're never going to convince me you didn't make up that story as a metaphor.

Bo Derek can wear braids.

rmrd0000 — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 21:25:51 +0000

In reply to For a while the Who were

Bo Derek can wear braids.

Black women can point out a history of braids.

If a black actress is said to look like a druggie, while a white actress is praised for wearing braids, pushback can be expected.

Oh by the way, Donald Trump said that the 3K death toll in Puerto Rico was put out there just to embarrass him. (Just letting you know, the girl’s braids don’t inhibit keeping up with the news)

For a while the Who were

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 21:13:00 +0000

In reply to When, exactly, did Bo Derek

For a while the Who were touring with The Clash, and they'd do this thing where Pete Townsend would hand off his guitar to Joe Strummer. And Keith Richards noted that this was bullshit - this ain't fucking musical dynasties and inheritance - it's copping what you want, and whoever comes out on top comes out on top. It's not Bo Derek's place to support or not support black women wearing braids. She just wears them. If someone black, white, Asian, whatever likes them and wears them, well, cool, inspiration - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. White people will get more white influence, black people will get more black influence, but sometimes it'll be reversed. who cares? as long as a good song or good fashion or something else positive comes out of it? Mick Jagger was at Sun Studios in Memphis today - the geezer's 75 and hasn't forgotten. There's plenty of credit going around. Sinead O'Connor shaves her head and suddenly a million women (and men) shave their heads. Do I need to know the history of shaved heads, to think back to Egyptians or other cases, or can I just appreciate this point in space? Retro styles come back, so those awful 80's clothes & hairstyles are cool again. Do we have to remember if it was Duran Duran or Prince or Flock of Seagulls that started something up?

Old Russian joke - 2 boys are

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 21:05:58 +0000

In reply to When, exactly, did Bo Derek

Old Russian joke - 2 boys are playing in a sandbox with different toys, and 1 turns to the other and says, "Let's share like brothers". The 2nd responds, "No way - we do it 50-50".

"We want to share yours, but keep ours" is what I keep hearing. That's not how it works. Many people first heard rap with Blondie's "The Man from Mars", even though she specifically calls out Fast Five Freddie as her source. But you can't live in New York and not grow New York style. You can't bottle culture and keep it to yourself, especially not with TV & internet an clubs and all the other ways of transfer. And yeah, when I hear Blondie, I also hear Dylan's Subterranean Blues, another rap-like song from 10 years before. And somebody else did call out from 10 years before that, and another decade and on and on. It's not even the music, it's the rhythm. You simply can't own it. And someone else will trace the lineage through other people, and they're both right. Different paths to the same destination. And that goes with everything else. Try making rules for Hurricane Florence to not come ashore - that's how futile it is. And this is without the influence of wars and famine and plague and mass migration. At some point you have to stop saying "mine" all the time if you want to be part of civilization. Civilization is shared, and not just with a certain caste. It's the whole shebang.

I have never insulted you in

ocean-kat — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 20:56:06 +0000

In reply to Given the shots you’ve taken

I have never insulted you in lieu of an argument addressing your points.

That is the future.

rmrd0000 — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 20:49:58 +0000

In reply to p.s. can I also just say: the

That is the future.