dagblog - Comments for "Eager to Court Jews (and Fracture Democrats), Republicans Push Bills on Anti-Semitism"

I don't really know how wide

ocean-kat — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 18:33:39 +0000

I don't really know how wide spread the disagreements are between various Jewish factions but it's not just the worst enemies that claimed Judaism is about race and blood. My moderate Jewish relatives were clear that they considered my dad Jewish because his mother was Jewish even though he wasn't raised Jewish, never went to synagogue, and joined the Luthern church of my mother. I was not Jewish because my mother was a Luthern. The maternal blood line was the determining factor informing their opinions.

Haaretz.com, a month ago:

NCD — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 17:48:50 +0000

In reply to Most religions are a choice

Haaretz.com, a month ago:

Israeli rabbinical courts are increasingly relying on DNA tests in cases where the Jewishness of individuals seeking to marry is in doubt, recent complaints suggest. In almost all of these cases, the individuals who were asked or advised to undergo genetic testing were immigrants from the former Soviet Union or their offspring.... 'It is really terrifying thinking where this could lead,' advocate warns. 'Judaism is not about race and blood, as our worst enemies have claimed'

Victor Klemperer, in his 1000+ page diary on life under the 3rd Reich, mentioned how he believed Zionism mirrored Nazi racial politics.

Thanks for the recommend.

artappraiser — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 17:37:26 +0000

In reply to You might like this history

Thanks for the recommend.

Yes. But I think that the

artappraiser — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 17:34:57 +0000

In reply to Most religions are a choice

Yes. But I think that the world picking up on that and reinforcing it in the 19th and 20th centuries is why we are at where we are at. I.E. Jews were assimilating in places like Germany....they were proud German citizens of generations standing...and many were rejecting the combination of the ethnicity with the religion. But the trajectory of amping up the anti-Semitism wouldn't let that continue to develop.

You might like this history

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 17:21:31 +0000

In reply to I suspect attitudes are going

You might like this history book "Tragedy and Hope" by Carroll Quigley that Clinton used to rave about, referring to 4 Empires - this being finally the taming of the 3rd, the Chinese still a wildcard, the Soviet turned Russian and still a thorn but not much of an Empire.

Most religions are a choice

ocean-kat — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 17:17:15 +0000

In reply to It's complicated because

Most religions are a choice but Judaism has mostly incorporated genetics into it's religion. It's not just outsiders that made the distinction and forced it on Jews. If one is not born into the religion it's extremely hard to convert. If one is born into it it's automatic. I'm not trying to make an invidious comparison, just an observation. I don't care how religions decide who can be members. But your comment doesn't fit how Judaism mostly defines itself.

I suspect attitudes are going

artappraiser — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 17:10:17 +0000

In reply to One poll I saw said that

I suspect attitudes are going to change with the next generations in a lot of places, not just the U.S., because a lot of the Sunni states are quitting with the feeding of anti-Semitism as a useful distraction from their own problems. For good or ill there's a lessening of using the Palestinian cause as a cri di coeur. What happened? Syria for one thing. Massive reshaping of the mideast dynamic.Iran power grab, with Russia's help. ISIS the catalyst, not to mention results of neo-con adventure in Iraq. Israel is just one little country. I.E., Jordan's got a real big Syrian refugee problem...to paraphrase Rick in Casablanca the problems of Palestine don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world.

It's complicated because

artappraiser — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 16:49:08 +0000

In reply to I imagine the "Jewish state"

It's complicated because religions are usually a choice, not an ethnicity you were born with and can't change. It goes to Fukuyama's idea of tribalism vs. a national creed of choice. Virulent anti-Semitism became genetically based in the 19th and 20th centuries and a lot of the world supported the creation of Israel because that happened. But unfortunately, to continue the state as an ethnically tribal one, rather than basing it on a national creed (in this case, a creed that would include a religion you'd have to convert to) flies in the face of global values, it reinforces the ethnic cleansing thing. Genetic tribalism always causes this conundrum. Not to say that religious war isn't a nasty thing, too. But it's a creed, a choice. Convert if you want to be a citizen, or go find another country is a different thing, is tribal by choice, a national creed. Once you think of it that way, it becomes easier to see the problem: there really is no difference between a U.S. Constitution that provides for freedom of religion and a Pakistani one that says it's a Muslim state.

I imagine the "Jewish state"

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 11:06:54 +0000

In reply to One poll I saw said that

I imagine the "Jewish state" question is more complex than that - I'd be fine with a Jewish state if they hadn't built it where there were other people. I can also sympathize that Jews being such a magnet for world hate, continuing a Jewish state is important in not becoming a minority, even as the idea of treating non-Jews not just as lesser citizens but lesser beings is anathema. I'm a bit older (and not Jewish) but can imagine I track pretty close to the majority sentiment , it ain't that tough, except it is.

One poll I saw said that

Aaron Carine — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 10:13:36 +0000

In reply to Schumer pointed out the

One poll I saw said that three-quarters of American Jews under 36 are unsympathetic to the Netanyahu government, and a number are unhappy with Israel being a Jewish state rather than the state of all her citizens.