dagblog - Comments for "Shakespeare Wasn't Perfect"

Re: Many lawyers and medical

artappraiser — Sun, 19 May 2019 23:56:26 +0000

Re: Many lawyers and medical doctors stan these conspiracies. Oh I recognize that one, that's a classic in the fine arts, there's this thing for decades, a popular hobby for M.D.'s in particular, to play detective with dead artists diseases and deaths. I.E. the first article in JAMA was often a theoretical essay another damn theory of what Van Gogh suffered from, or why Rembrandt's nose is so bumpy. They like to think they can offer a different slant on things that all us humanities people are missing. (What is especially aggravating is when they do it with you in person after they get done with their very billable work, they expect a fine arts person to want to discuss and interpret their art theories for no charge. Doctors tend to do the artist diagnosis thing, lawyers on the other hand, seem to be more interested in figuring out the marketing and mystique of collecting angle. Comes to mind I know two lawyers who are real Shakespeare fans...along with similar contemporary pop performance like the big competitive TV talent shows...it's the "drama" thing, probably like operatta too.)

Certainly, these theories

Doctor Cleveland — Sun, 19 May 2019 20:14:35 +0000

In reply to I have similar thoughts on

Certainly, these theories breed faster among people who don't know any other 16th/17th century dramatists. or who know only one or two plays by one or two other playwrights.

The claim that Shakespeare is especially good at writing female characters, for example, would have to stand up against wonderfully-written female characters by Fletcher, Webster, and others. Webster's Duchess of Malfi may be the single favorite character among today's women scholars of Renaissance drama.

And this may be one of the reasons that these conspiracy theories seem to flourish more in the US than in the UK, where the other playwrights do actually get taught and performed more often.

I think that's all true,

Doctor Cleveland — Sun, 19 May 2019 20:10:06 +0000

In reply to Fiction is just more

I think that's all true, ocean-kat, and definitely the internet has fed conspiracy theorists of all kinds. It's a bad development, to be sure.

I think this conspiracy has always been popular, long before the internet, with well-educated professionals. Many lawyers and medical doctors stan these conspiracies. So something else is going on here that I'm only beginning to think through. On some level it's about the tension between passionate amateurs, Shakespeare's fandom, and scholarly professionals.

Shakespeare - his gen's

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 18 May 2019 00:00:24 +0000

In reply to Shakespeare Wasn't Perfect

Shakespeare - his gen's Netflix.

Fiction is just more

ocean-kat — Fri, 17 May 2019 23:13:53 +0000

In reply to The Atlantic also likes

Fiction is just more interesting than non-fiction for many people. It's a fundamental problem of the internet age. I really don't know what we can do to fix it.

I remember the first time I heard about the controversy about who wrote Shakespeare's plays. Decades ago I sat down at an outdoor cafe for a pastry and coffee and some guy at a nearby table was talking to a friend about it. It was such an interesting story I stayed for the whole conversation. He really had the story worked out, knew all the details, all the bits and pieces fit. The dude knew I was eavesdropping too and started to look at me and address his story to me as well. I think he was happy for the added audience. In the end I didn't know enough to evaluate the accuracy of the information and I didn't care who wrote Shakespeare's plays. "The play's the thing," you know. I just chalked it up as an interesting story and moved on to other subjects I actually cared about.

All information was allowed in the public square but there were gate keepers who controlled access to the microphones. Liberals used to critique this by quite correctly complaining that the gate keepers kept many liberals from accessing the microphone. What we didn't consider is they kept most of the kooks, conspiracy theorists, and liars away from the microphone too. Now it's as easy to find the kooks and their fiction as it is to read the NYT. Or watch their fiction on youtube easier than it used to be to watch ABC or CBS news. I always knew there was a market for this type of fiction but I never thought there would be this many people who liked it and believed it.

I have similar thoughts on

Tony — Fri, 17 May 2019 20:33:32 +0000

In reply to Shakespeare Wasn't Perfect

I have similar thoughts on this topic. We can only really appreciate Shakespeare when we treat him like just another playwright.

I'll admit I've never been a

Doctor Cleveland — Fri, 17 May 2019 15:23:55 +0000

In reply to I admire the Dagblogger

I'll admit I've never been a Lanier superfan, and I can't quote her poetry off the top of my head. If I had to pick a favorite woman poet from that era, it would probably be Mary Wroth, followed by Isabella Whitney. I don't remember any specific lines by the Earl of Oxford either. I do have favorite sentences of Bacon's. For Lanier, I provide links.

Lanier was a minor poet, although not as minor as some other people who've been proposed as secret Shakespeares. But she was a real one, and her accomplishments should not be taken away from her. She achieved what she did against enormous resistance.

It's taken so much work over the last thirty years to bring attention to early women writers, and it upsets me to see that hard scholarly work ignored. (So now we're ignoring women's poetry AND women's scholarship.) And talking about which men Lanier slept with, instead of what she wrote, is incredibly retrograde.

True enough.

Doctor Cleveland — Fri, 17 May 2019 15:16:01 +0000

In reply to The Atlantic also likes

True enough.

The Atlantic also likes

Michael Maiello — Fri, 17 May 2019 14:41:58 +0000

In reply to Thanks, mm. It's really

The Atlantic also likes clicks. They likely consider this highbrow clickbait.

I admire the Dagblogger

Flavius — Fri, 17 May 2019 04:03:36 +0000

In reply to Shakespeare Wasn't Perfect

I admire the Dagblogger restraint , not responding with favorite quotes from her.