dagblog - Comments for "How to talk to a Republican (or progressive?)"

I dunno - if we can hype the

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:20:18 +0000

In reply to Look, any historical analogy

I dunno - if we can hype the antivaxx thing into a big scare,
and then get people to feel traumatized by the border wars,
we might have a winning combination.
Most important is to figure out which dance'll be this gen's "Charleston".
"The Whoring (or Abhoring, depending) 20's" - how's that sound?

Look, any historical analogy

Michael Wolraich — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:06:55 +0000

In reply to Harding got elected, despite

Look, any historical analogy to a presidential campaign is dubious because there are so many variables and anachronisms, but the Harding comparison is just absurd. He was an arch-conservative Republican who defeated a forgettable Democratic opponent by exploiting a wave of nativist, red scare hysteria prompted by the trauma of WWI and the Spanish Flu. He then led one of the most corrupt and inept administrations in American history, which earned him that #41 spot.

So the fact that Mona Charen is urging Democrats to win like Warren Harding tells me that she is neither genuine nor credible. Her "advice" to Democrats is a thinly-veiled artifice for promoting the kind of kind of candidate she would prefer. That's what makes her a concern troll.

Perhaps useful to consider

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 08:38:54 +0000

In reply to How to talk to a Republican (or progressive?)

Perhaps useful to consider more how conservatives talk about us, without getting mad -

what is Tucker's strategy re: Ilhan (somewhat like Michelle not loving her country, but quite a bit stronger, the ungratedul America-hating immigrant)

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d25530de4b07e698c4280e1

What presupposes such statements? Is Ilhan supposed to be thankful to the US for time in a Kenyan refugee camp? For all the criticism Conservatives levy against government, why should anyone else be shy, except a 2nd class charity citizenship status.

And that 2nd class citizenship seems one of the GOP's major goals - the true god-fearing patriots are over here, claiming all the military as Republicans, all productive people as Republican, all American-looking/acting as Republican. Salute the flag, watch your football, complain in the rigjt way - then you're American.

Ilhan could counter this with more humor, but maybe she's just not funny?

PPS - Reagan/Thatcher's

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 08:17:39 +0000

In reply to Harding got elected, despite

PPS - Reagan/Thatcher's neoliberalism is discredited. Clinton's Neoneoliberalism is still kicking, even though it got coopted like Betsy Ross' flag on Bush/Blair's road to Iraq and Bush's later "what me worry" hands-free mishandling of the economy, as well as Obama's standoffish version of realpolitik.

Yes, caputalism is part of the solution. No, it won't lift all boats without care. Yes, we've got to cone up with some creative solutions for this generation's problems (refighting busing and the crime bill and even Iraq/Afghanistan won't much help). Yes, we need money, I.e. taxes to do it. No, it won't be easy, especially since we're the party in the ditch - they're the amoral winners that only with difficulty can be brought down off their perch (Epstein a prime example, but so many others).

The idea that we should "talk like Democrats) or some other easy sounding solution, is simply there's so much confusion out there, talking isn't guaranteed to even cut through, much less if the ideas are sound.

Likely we need to promote trust more than anything else - and even (especially?) within the party we're mistrustful. For all the digs against Hillary, a hold-your-nose-even coalition that got 3 million votes more than her opponent seems like a far reach for most of our contestants. It'll be a GOTV operation first, and that's always iffy (ask Beto). We need some fire in the belly, but one that can wade through the confusion and propaganda and tribal pre-established partisanship. There was criticism in 2016 of just trying to win by X%, being too careful, but as Nov 2020 gets closer and our political clusterfuck continues to enrage and outrage, that may be the best we got.

PS - I'm rooting for Pelosi

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 05:40:48 +0000

In reply to Harding got elected, despite

PS - I'm rooting for Pelosi to step in and mop things up, but that means a) she's interested, and b) she successfully rounds the bend on the impeachment setup soon (any delayed start will easily be forgiven with success, esp in the Senate - as well as working with the next wave of candidates).

No one else is really grabbing me as The One just yet. Yang probably headed for the door. Maybe Avenatti if he pays off a few bills ;-)

Oops, substitute some little

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 05:29:34 +0000

In reply to Ftr Ames is a liberal college

Oops, substitute some little rightwing angry iconoclast community in God knows where - I'm in YourUp living the good life (with socialist healthcare, yay!), what do I care?

And someone's telling us not

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 05:25:58 +0000

In reply to Harding got elected, despite

And someone's telling us not #BeBest? I don't think anyone is looking for 2nd class. But will this year's best be a Dukakis, an Obama or a Clinton, a Carter or an Adlai Stevenson or John Kerry? And which of those successes/failures were due to not fit as much for the time/opposition, or just not good enough campaign, or...

Then again, some candidates get away with just saying shit and it doesn't matter, Harding or Obama, Bush or Trump - people want their style somehow. Look at the GOP pack in 2016 - who's our Robert Redford/The Natural or Ross Perot/Jesse Jackson even

Harding got elected, despite

Michael Wolraich — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 03:36:00 +0000

In reply to I think the point was

Harding got elected, despite being a chump

Yeah, so did Donald Trump. They even had the same slogan, "America First," and the same nativist bullshit. So Democrats should obviously do what those Republican assholes did.

Or...radical notion...Democrats could emulate Democrats who got elected and weren't chumps. I mean, if we're digging into history, how about Woodrow Wilson, FDR, JFK? You know, presidents who got elected AND changed the world for the better, the top 10 presidents instead of the bottom 5.

Ftr Ames is a liberal college

Michael Wolraich — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 03:23:04 +0000

In reply to One problem I have is many

Ftr Ames is a liberal college town. Just sayin (as a native Iowan).

One problem I have is many

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 21:57:00 +0000

In reply to Democrats have to face the

One problem I have is many Dems equate Reagan/Thatcher with Clinton/Blair under a demeaning "neoliberal" tag. But largely the latter was a compassionate market-assisted approach that had great results (especially as Soviet Union, China, India, SE Asia, East Europe, Latin America improved access to trade and production of goods, and extreme poverty went from 36% to 8%:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/decline-extreme-poverty-perspective/

You'd think there'd be a celebration, but we only see as far as West Virginia and Ames Iowa, and we equate wges only with growth, rather than buying power and access to goods and services and taxation - we are largely economically illiterate - remember the Modern Monetary Theory scam? -, so some successes are lost on us as are some solutions. And our compassion for the rest of the world dried up as well.

So we'll have candidates ignoring big successes in poverty and bringing down war, and instead offer counterintuitive plans to fix things but more to appeal to angered voters. It is crazy that Wharton had a 40% acceptance in Trump's day (higher for transfers), and now it's at 8%. It's crazy that housing has become mostly unaffordable to buy for most, while access to healthcare is somehow bad and wages and retirement seem static... but half of that is plain and simple ugly politics and wasted money on bad defense choices, and then there's understanding the changing monopoly landscape - back to 1890, except faster paths to monopolies with better tools for barons to control.