dagblog - Comments for "Castro take Biden to task for Obama's deportations"

More and more I just think

artappraiser — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:41:33 +0000

In reply to The question is really what

More and more I just think the smartest thing to do is to attack Trump on his plans and execution, that they are nonsense and outright lies, bullshit pandering, all hat,no cattle, doesn't know a single thing about how to regulate immigration and could in reality care less about it in reality. Just a bunch of embarassing stuff that has embarassed us as not being able to do things properly. This piece for example, is excellent, this is the kind of thing that should be made viral:

Trump: E-Verify Would Make It Too Hard to Hire Undocumented Workers

By Eric Levitz @ NYMag.com, May 19

Stuff just has to come from a source that doesn't have "NY" in its url. The damning statements were on Fox News.

It should be easy to make up ads that have him saying tons of contradictory stuff on immigration.

Am thinking that presidential candidates should be selling not a policy prescription but instead explaining how they will force Congress to sit down and come up with new law.

I don't think so. NCD seems

ocean-kat — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:29:52 +0000

In reply to all I see going on is that

I don't think so. NCD seems to be making the claim that Warren endorses open borders. Drum explicitly makes that claim and NCD seems to endorse his arguments. He's not just claiming voters will perceive her position as open borders. He's not just saying these republican lies about Warren's policy will be believed by the public and be politically effective. He, and Drum, are claiming these lies are are an accurate analysis of Warren's policy. I don't often get into discussions about the political viability of a policy position and if that was all he claimed I'd likely not join in.

all I see going on is that

artappraiser — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 19:23:32 +0000

In reply to It's not lying or ignorant to

all I see going on is that you have totally separate interests on topic. He's doing cynical political analysis of candidate behavior including positions for public consumption, and you're looking for someone to honestly discuss policy wonkery with. (Mho, you need Bill Clinton as a moderator! )

It's not lying or ignorant to

ocean-kat — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 19:10:17 +0000

In reply to Warren says she only deport

It's not lying or ignorant to think about these issues. I've never claimed it was. Drum lists several reasons why he believes Warren endorses open borders. You seem to be endorsing his views. I've challenged 4 of them as false. I've made a detailed argument why I think they are false. You've had several opportunities to argue your point of view against mine. You've declined, most likely because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

How exactly is decriminalization open borders? How exactly does parole instead of incarceration for those awaiting trial mean open borders? How exactly does support for sanctuary cities signal open borders? Why does lack of a mention of e-verify on Warren's web page mean that it would be open season for hiring any immigrant legal or illegal?

I thought you were better than this. I thought at least you would make rational arguments to support your views. But you're just another dumb ass dick. I get fucking nothing from you. No discussion, no pointed critique, no rational response.

Since Zogby was polling on

NCD — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 18:31:32 +0000

In reply to Here's a June Zogby poll on

Since Zogby was polling on the Trump immigration plan, and since swing state voters overwhelmingly supported it, one take is Democrats should not run on immigration plans.

If you read Martin Longman at link I posted, even with a Democratic trifecta (prez, senate, house), it's highly unlikely anything much 'progressive' can get done.

Longman is a savvy guy, far more than the corporate punditry on tv.

Here's a June Zogby poll on

artappraiser — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:41:51 +0000

In reply to Warren says she only deport

Here's a June Zogby poll on behalf of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). The seven states polled were: Arizona, Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Wisconsin that gives some clues on this front. On the other hand, I can't believe the more well-funded candidates like Warren haven't similarly polled on this for themselves. But I think it's the messaging on this, rather than actual facts and policy proposals, that is a major swing voter factor (Going back to the late 19th century, too, in this country of immigrants you always have significant groups that want to pull up the drawbridge now. Is no different with other enlightenment era "new world" countries like Canada and Australia....)

Warren says she only deport

NCD — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 15:00:39 +0000

In reply to I feel I've made a good and

Warren says she only deport 'serious criminals'.

The border and the country would be open to others.

It's not 'lying or ignorant" for Democrats to think about how a "immigrant welcoming" border policy (and other Dem proposals) will go over in Ohio, Pennsylvania etc. Democrats need ideas, but ones that will win the swing states, not give Trump a landslide.

I feel I've made a good and

ocean-kat — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 06:16:42 +0000

In reply to Could you use quotes from

I feel I've made a good and comprehensive argument that is a fair description of Warren's policy as outlined on her web page. It deserves a response as comprehensive. But if you want to play games to avoid making that response. Could you use quotes from Warren's policy to make points, instead of Drum's beliefs.

It's true that Warren doesn't mention e-verify and I have no idea what her position on that issue is. But Drum and you are either lying or ignorant when you claim that " it would be open season on hiring any immigrant, legal, illegal." There are federal mandates that federal contractors use it. Those mandates would have to be changed and there is no evidence Warren wants to end them. Even if we assume without evidence she would attempt to end the federal mandates many states require all businesses in the state use e-verify. These laws have passed constitutional muster and would continue irregardless of Warren's position on e-verify.

Could you use quotes from

NCD — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 05:10:34 +0000

In reply to Decriminalization has nothing

Could you use quotes from Warrens policy to make points, instead of your own beliefs.

. She mentions nothing on deportation except for "serious criminal activity" or "security concerns", calling it a "fair and welcoming immigration system." Drum points out she doesn't even mention e-verify, so it would be open season on hiring any immigrant, legal, illegal. This would go over like a lead balloon in swing states.

What I believe as to policy details is irrelevant, I do however think Obama did the best he could do as long as the Republicans block reform.

Decriminalization has nothing

ocean-kat — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 03:57:24 +0000

In reply to Yeah I actually read it and

Decriminalization has nothing to do with border control. It's a good right wing talking point because most people are ignorant of the law and have no idea that there are civil and criminal infractions and civil and criminal courts. People erroneously believe that decriminalization means border crossing becomes legal. Before GWB illegal immigration was a civil infraction. That it was not a criminal offense didn't inhibit Clinton and previous presidents from returning and deporting millions of illegal immigrants. Returning to prosecuting illegal immigration as a civil infraction would not stop Warren from stopping people at the border and returning or deporting them as was done in Clinton's presidency. Drum is spreading this republican lie because it's such an effective lie to tell ignorant people. Are you one of the ignorant or are you knowingly spreading the lie?

Separating local law enforcement from ICE also has nothing to do with border control. This concerns illegal immigrants in interior cities most that have been here for more than a decade. To effectively police these cities law enforcement needs the cooperation of local citizens. If illegal immigrants and even citizens with friends who are illegal that are afraid of deportation they won't cooperate with police. Sanctuary cities is a stop gap solution to deal with the problem of 11 million illegal immigrants who have lived and made lives in America for more than a decade. Many have integrated into the community and have spouses and children who are American citizens. But sanctuary cities doesn't affect how one deals with the border. It doesn't stop ICE from arresting and returning illegal immigrants captured near the border.

Using a parole system instead of incarceration doesn't stop illegal immigrants from losing their court cases and being deported. All articles I've seen claim that the vast majority of illegal immigrants on parole show up for their court dates. Warren is not proposing to stop arrests at the border nor is she proposing to end legal prosecutions. She's simply planning to use parole instead of incarceration for those waiting for their court date. That's not open borders. None of this is open borders. It's a fucking lie to claim it is. And frankly NCD I think you're too smart not to know this.