dagblog - Comments for "Rioting Mainly for Fun and Profit: The Neoconservative Origins of Our Police Problem"

Q & A: How Violent Protests

artappraiser — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 05:08:09 +0000

In reply to Rioting Mainly for Fun and Profit: The Neoconservative Origins of Our Police Problem

Q & A: How Violent Protests Change Politics

By Isaac Chotiner @ NewYorker.com, May 29

[....] I spoke by phone, on Friday afternoon, with Omar Wasow, a professor of politics at Princeton, who studies protest movements and their effects on politics and elections. During our conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity, we discussed which tactics worked best in the civil-rights era, what violent protests have meant, historically, for Democrats running for office, and whether Donald Trump is a figure of order or disorder.

How would you summarize your work on the political effects of protest?

I would say that nonviolent protests can be very effective if they are able to get media attention, and that there is a very strong relationship between media coverage and public concern about whatever issues those protesters are raising. But there is a conditional effect of violence, and what that means, in practice, is that groups that are the object of state violence are able to get particularly sympathetic press—and a large amount of media coverage. But that is a very hard strategy to maintain, and what we often see is that, when protesters engage in violence, often in a very understandable response to state repression, that tends to work against their cause and interests, and mobilizes or becomes fodder for the opposition to grow its coalition.

What we observe in the nineteen-sixties is that there was a nontrivial number of white moderates who were open to policies that advanced racial equality, and were also very concerned about order. The needle that civil-rights activists were trying to thread was: How do you advance racial equality, and capture the attention of often indifferent or hostile white moderates outside of the South, and at the same time grow a coalition of allies? And over time the strategy that evolved was one of nonviolent protest, which actively sought to trigger police chiefs like Bull Connor [in Birmingham, Alabama,] to engage in spectacles of violence that attracted national media and would, in the language of the nineteen-sixties, “shock the conscience of the nation.” So it isn’t just nonviolence that is effective, but nonviolence met with state and vigilante brutality that is effective.

The interesting thing to me that came out of this research was that civil-rights leaders were picking Birmingham and Selma specifically because they had police chiefs with hair-trigger tendencies toward violence. So there was this strategic use of violence by the civil-rights movement, but it was to be the object of violence, not the instigators of violence. At the same time, what was very hard about, with that strategy, is that you had images of people observing their kinfolk being brutalized on television, and that helped fire up a more militant wing of the civil-rights movement, which endorsed violence in self-defense and was much less committed to tactics of nonviolence. When we observed a wave of violent protests in the mid- to late sixties, those white moderates who supported the Democratic Party after the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 defected to the Republican Party in 1968. So, when the state was employing violence and protesters were the targets of that violence, the strategy worked well, and when protesters engaged in violence—whether or not the state was—those voters moved to the law-and-order coalition.

What did you find in your research, specifically about the 1968 election? [....]

MLK marched on Birmingham

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 05:03:00 +0000

In reply to Q & A: How Violent Protests

MLK marched on Birmingham *because* he knew its police chief Bull Connor was a brute and would bring out the dogs - great PR,, great visuals. Protesting where you're allowed? A waste if time and effort.

Jersey guys and gals

artappraiser — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 01:36:09 +0000

In reply to Rioting Mainly for Fun and Profit: The Neoconservative Origins of Our Police Problem

Jersey guys and gals "shopping":

Looting at Vans in Atlantic City pic.twitter.com/GI1THoTnbG
— Amy S. Rosenberg (@amysrosenberg) May 31, 2020

Those look just like opportunist shop lifting types. But I've seen and heard evidence (from family members in L.A.) of basically a bit more sophisticated crime wave going on out there in more than a couple cities . All colors of perps, small groups working looting expeditions out of cars, going back and forth to the same store, taking advantage of cops being busy with protests. And also small mobs that follow along with protest, then break off for a quick loot where they had planned to loot all along.

More #GetAheadOfTheProb

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 31 May 2020 21:00:30 +0000

In reply to Flint sheriff gets ahead of

More #GetAheadOfTheProb

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/05/31/in-some-cities-pol...

It is helpful to remember the

moat — Sun, 31 May 2020 20:43:45 +0000

In reply to Rioting Mainly for Fun and Profit: The Neoconservative Origins of Our Police Problem

It is helpful to remember the proactive program of the neocons. There is a strange relationship between what were designated "urban" problems back in the day and the challenges of communities that persist on the most local levels.

Police authority is a matter of the smallest units of principality in our polity along with the larger ones. We have county sheriffs, city cops, state troopers, and Feds all dealing with their own limits of investigation and rules of evidence. The neocon vision does not address those differences. They treat them as a boundary condition. We only need to change these few rules and the world will fall into place.

Philadelphia looting videos I

artappraiser — Sun, 31 May 2020 19:57:09 +0000

In reply to Rioting Mainly for Fun and Profit: The Neoconservative Origins of Our Police Problem

Philadelphia looting videos I just saw on CNN sure didn't look like Antifa or White Supremacists to me. Here's some similar on Twitter. I must admit that unlike young protestors, who seem to be having fun, these seem deadly serious "for profit" and not about protest nor even about anger:

Looting is happening at a strip mall in Philadelphia’s Port Richmond section. Police are on scene, beginning to intervene now @NBCPhiladelphia pic.twitter.com/g3ApLp3ecV
— Drew Smith (@drewsmithtv) May 31, 2020

Crazy footage shows the scale of looting in #Philadelphia. Billions worth of damage and looting: pic.twitter.com/S0dUXZdVGs
— The'Nimr'Tiger (@Souria4Syrians) May 31, 2020

Philadelphia looting @NBCPhiladelphia pic.twitter.com/ItjwOUkxHn
— Drew Smith (@drewsmithtv) May 31, 2020

New footage shows looting on 52nd and Market Street in Philly.

A large police presence is at the scene. One patrol car was struck by a rock or piece of cement. #Philadelphia pic.twitter.com/s5GFHi0Bvd
— Blake Jews For Andrew Yang (@YangJews) May 31, 2020

Philadelphia looting @NBCPhiladelphia pic.twitter.com/ItjwOUkxHn
— Drew Smith (@drewsmithtv) May 31, 2020

Flint sheriff gets ahead of

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 31 May 2020 19:49:21 +0000

In reply to Rioting Mainly for Fun and Profit: The Neoconservative Origins of Our Police Problem

Flint sheriff gets ahead of the problem

pretty cool how cops are

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 31 May 2020 15:28:49 +0000

In reply to Rioting Mainly for Fun and Profit: The Neoconservative Origins of Our Police Problem

pretty cool how cops are decked out in fancy battle armor to fight civilians who aren’t hurting anyone while nurses had to tape trash bags to their faces to fight the disease that’s killing everyone
— Sarah Beattie (@nachosarah) May 31, 2020

105,000 dead and counting. Riots killed how many? Pandemic cost $8-10 trillion so far. How much riot damage?

If they had given

PeraclesPlease — Sun, 31 May 2020 14:29:07 +0000

In reply to Rioting Mainly for Fun and Profit: The Neoconservative Origins of Our Police Problem

If they had given @Kaepernick7 his knee and responded appropriately, maybe, just maybe some of this might not be happening. https://t.co/jxcifpWoMd
— David Corn (@DavidCornDC) May 31, 2020