dagblog - Comments for "Why the Catholic Church Will Not Save Itself"

though commendable in most of

oferdesade — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 07:21:57 +0000

In reply to Why the Catholic Church Will Not Save Itself

though commendable in most of what you write, this borderline exercise in rhetorics is not unlike the one that confuses freedom of religion (the justifiable demand for freedom for the adherents to a religious belief) with freedom FOR religious institutions (the unjustifiable demand for freedom of the institution to be above the law).

let's begin with unaccountability - the church IS accountable, but to a moral and spiritual credo OF ITS OWN CALLING! raping children, letting people die instead of using precautionary measures... these are at the very least complicate with crimes against the rules created by the church itself. if not accountability to the law, they are at the very least accountable to god; and this - by in admission or willingness to do penance - is the sin of the church. Instead of punishing the perpetrators, they thought first and foremost of the institution.

2nd, pius12 - no again. the church's defense of this collaborator has much deeper implications. if he is declared a saint, his deeds must have been saintly. his cooperation with the forces of evil justifiable (we already have those saying he was silent so more wouldn't die; how ridiculous is that? how many more could have died?). moreso, some day, some SSPXist may decide that killing the jews was justified, because a saint had a hand in doing it. all you first need to do is say that it wasn't 6 mil jews but 6 mi;l poles, and you've already wiped most of the iceberg of evil away - no longer genocide, now simply a very costly act of war.

fortunately, i do not agree entirely with the conclusion either. As mr. allen has shown, the church awaits its future in the east - not the west. asians and africans have less to lose by facing up to the church's past since they are not truly partners in its sins, as is the difference between european jews and north-african jews (the latter who have traditionally taken a much more user-friendly and less racist approach to the religion's edicts). the problems facing christians in these parts of the globe (unluckily for them, luckily for the rest of humanity) transcend petty inside politics, considerations of history's future, how to eradicate the jews, PR & image, the INSTITUTE, etc. etc. ad nauseum. i truly believe that the church under an african leader would show a less fascist face. obviously the college would at first be unsympathetic, but what JP & B16 wrought, someone else can begin to un-wrought.,,

The correct answer for a

Larry Jankens — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:54:54 +0000

In reply to Opus Dei supported Franco

The correct answer for a Catholic is Jesus, but you didn't list him as an option. Unless you're saying Jesus supports fascism instead of killing? I'd assume he would support neither.

Jesus preached counter

Larry Jankens — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:50:37 +0000

In reply to Hatred is hatred in any form

Jesus preached counter culture - that was one of the reasons he was killed. Throughout history, Popes rarely just "preach Christ." They are the leaders of a powerful institution that has and always will seek to gain power over individuals. Look at what the Popes did against the Medici families and the rest of Europe. How can anyone study church history and not see that Popes, like the rest of us, are flawed and may not be golden conduit of the voice of God, but rather political leaders doing what political leaders do?

Good point, Genghis, but ...

Doctor Cleveland — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:21:17 +0000

In reply to I've thought about writing a

Good point, Genghis, but ... which laity?

A lot of the laity have already voted with their feet. Don't trust the Church? Don't go to church. So the anger has already been priced into the system. Then you have a core of hard-liners (see above) who identify entirely with the hierarchy and its authority, to the extent that Father Hans Kung is imagined as somehow not really Catholic. And you have a bunch of laypeople who are angry and discontent, but don't see any great way to bring that discontent to bear on an organization that's so top-down and unresponsive.

The most interesting lay organization is Voice of the Faithful, which started in Greater Boston, and which speaks up for a greater role in Church governance for the laity. (The same greater role that the laity was promised by Vatican II, forty years ago.) The Boston Archdiocese, true to form, reacted with hostility. But the VoF is still alive and making its case.

I've thought about writing a

Michael Wolraich — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:09:03 +0000

In reply to Why the Catholic Church Will Not Save Itself

I've thought about writing a post called, "What if the Catholic Church Sold Cars?" detailing how it would handle a faulty brake problem. Can't quite make it work in my head though.

What boggles my mind is less the Church's response--all large institutions try to protect their authorities--but that of the laity. Imagine how the response would differ if some national charter school organization that had been caught covering up child molestation accusations and shuffling around the perpetrators to different schools. J.H.C., would there be hell to be pay. The organization would be sued, prosecuted, fined, jailed, broken up, chewed up, spit out, and defecated on.

But not the Catholic Church. I leave you with this gem. In 1977, when Miami tried to pass an ordinance to protect homosexuals from employment discrimination, the Archdiocese of Miami objected on the ground that that allowing homosexuals to be hired as teachers was like letting "a fox in the chicken coop."

Opus Dei supported Franco

Sentinel — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:50:41 +0000

In reply to Why the Catholic Church Will Not Save Itself

Opus Dei supported Franco because the other side was killing all the Catholics. Which side would you support?

Hatred is hatred in any form

Mary — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:25:31 +0000

In reply to Why the Catholic Church Will Not Save Itself

Hatred is hatred in any form whether it is Hans Kung or Andrew Sullivan writing and sounding as if they are Catholic. To be Catholic is a call to love and be loved by God and in turn, love your neighbor. This is what Benedict preaches-God. He doesn't preach counter culture. He preaches Christ as he was, is and always will be. It's what Popes do - it's what Pius did. Popes are political as all things are political but their main job is to "strengthen their brothers" in the faith. And, so I hope that the next Pope will do the same. And, I hope you and others will love as well.