dagblog - Comments for "Arrivederci, Columbus"

Marco Polo opened us up to

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 09:53:00 +0000

In reply to I'm a defender of Columbus

Marco Polo opened us up to the Black Plague along the Silk Road, wiping out over 1/3 Europe's population. I don't think he should be studied in school.

Neil Armstrong's walk on the moon was backed by Nixon, who didn't get us out of Vietnam fast enough and did break-ins, plus there were no black astronauts and the money could've been used better for poverty relief. I don't think we should celebrate him.

The World Wide Web was developed by Tim Berners-Lee working for nuclear-promoting CERN and based on decades of DARPA military-funded research. I don't think we should celebrate him

MLK fucked around in his wife even as she was supportive and kept his household together during traumatic troubling times. Likewise, Gandhi was really shitty to his son and wasn't very sympathetic to black Africans in his home in Capetown. I don't think we should celebrate them.

I could play this game all day. Winston Churchill vs Hitler anyone? Isaac Newton? Einstein? Edison? St. Paul? Mandela?

I'm a defender of Columbus

Aaron Carine — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 08:59:33 +0000

In reply to Arrivederci, Columbus

I'm a defender of Columbus Day, but maybe we should take his name off it if he is considered too bad for the honor. I think the holiday is largely about the legacy of 1492, which I don't think is entirely negative, rather than about Columbus the man. Maybe we could call it First Contact Day--Discovery Day would be problematic. We need a commemoration of indigenous America, so have Indigenous Peoples' Day too(although I wonder if Native American Month is just as good). If we hold Columbus fully responsible for everything that happened after him maybe he would deserve some honor, as that would make him responsible for all the good stuff as well as the genocide.

Aha, lookit who else thinks

artappraiser — Mon, 19 Oct 2020 11:28:23 +0000

In reply to Perfect example of what I

Aha, lookit who else thinks this sort of thing is bad juju (and I can say that cause I am a product of parochial schools):

The archbishop of San Francisco has performed a short exorcism ceremony outside a Catholic church where protesters had earlier toppled a statue of 18th Century Spanish missionary Father Junipero Serra. https://t.co/hhJW8FbkGu
— The Associated Press (@AP) October 18, 2020

Perfect example of what I

artappraiser — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 19:17:38 +0000

In reply to A Columbus statue out here

Perfect example of what I call "the new voodoo".

A Columbus statue out here

Orion — Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:01:17 +0000

In reply to Arrivederci, Columbus

A Columbus statue out here got done up so that he now looks like Vision from The Avengers. They only painted the hands and face so I think whoever did it did it intentionally.

Tomorrow is Vasco de Gama day

A Guy Called LULU — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 22:06:46 +0000

In reply to Arrivederci, Columbus

Tomorrow is Vasco de Gama day in India. There has been very heated controversy over celebrating it for years.

I don't give a fuck about any

ocean-kat — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 19:47:19 +0000

In reply to Thanks, G. I guess I'm in the

I don't give a fuck about any of them. All I care about is how they are dealt with in a way that will hinder or advance political and cultural change for the better. Apparently people like and need symbols and get attached to them. I could never understand it. Perhaps I have an empty spot inside where other people have something that gives them an appreciation of the art and poetry of these symbols. I can be moved by some art but I've never seen a statue of a famous person that affected me at all.

You've made a useful analysis of the political and cultural use of these statues and which we should save and discard to advance progressive goals. At least that's how I interpret your blog.

Thanks, G. I guess I'm in the

Doctor Cleveland — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 19:24:22 +0000

In reply to Nice piece, Doc. There's been

Thanks, G. I guess I'm in the primary-legacy camp, where you keep the statues of Washington and Jefferson for breaking with monarchy, despite all their other flaws and misdeeds. But Lee's primary contribution to the history books is the problem.

But Gen Z is making its own

artappraiser — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 14:15:40 +0000

In reply to I don't think a culture can

But Gen Z is making its own via social media, and they have a new name, they are "influencers", not heroes. It's populist and not top down. No teacher is going to tell them who is a hero.

Also as for monuments specifically there is significant money and many organizations focused on making them more generic, less focused on individual heroes. Like this, but it's not the only one, there are many:

The Mellon Foundation will invest a staggering $250 million to overhaul America's public monuments, the biggest initiative in the foundation's history: https://t.co/tFUPR0drRc pic.twitter.com/rUudGiQoID
— Artnet (@artnet) October 13, 2020

It's all the rage.

This is worldwide, too! In England for example there's this organization desperately trying to save "the old ways" of heroic figures.

I am sure, of course, that this is cyclical iconoclasm, but historically, these things last a long time, many generations if not centuries

Sports figures seem to be sacrosanct outliers. Basketball players like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant seem to be the only gods left that walk the earth. People will pay fortunes for their dirty gym socks. Does Covid affect this, with less play and therefore less shared experience? We'll see.

But they don't seem to care

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 11:19:23 +0000

In reply to I don't think a culture can

But they don't seem to care about the cultural fabric, which is built from warp and weave, crisscrossing patterns that build up & reinforce something new. They're more into stretching rubber until it breaks, and then calling it a day.