dagblog - Comments for "Some Black and Latino Americans remain hesitant to take a Covid-19 vaccine"

Let's sum this whole thread

artappraiser — Sun, 03 Jan 2021 07:24:52 +0000

In reply to Some Black and Latino Americans remain hesitant to take a Covid-19 vaccine

Let's sum this whole thread up nicely by looking what has happened since it started. and then say 'WTF why do so many Americans, both highly educated and not so, often think like idiots countering their own benefit?" It's always: "waaaah, that's not fair, the other guy got more than me." Public health, especially vaccines, it does not work that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The focus on whether every vaccine recipient is "deserving" rather than gettting shots into arms as quickly as possible reminds me of trying to target "deserving" homeowners with HAMP, means-testing, all the little ways US politics stupidly pits people against one another
— David Dayen (@ddayen) January 1, 2021

The negative outcome of "jumping the line" is one less person among 330 million who can take up a hospital bed. The benefit of getting the damn shots out far outstrips any other consequence
— David Dayen (@ddayen) January 1, 2021

so some don't want to do it right now, FUCK EM, give it to someone else, worry about that later! Go with the strict objective science and those that don't partake, move on. Quit trying to social engineer with a viral pandemic going on, NUMBERS is the name of the game right now!

the babe magnet thing may

artappraiser — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 21:49:05 +0000

In reply to but also too, the best point,

the babe magnet thing may already be happening, just sayin', where everybody wants what only a few can get...

cross-link to much more here

artappraiser — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 08:33:09 +0000

In reply to Some Black and Latino Americans remain hesitant to take a Covid-19 vaccine

cross-link to much more here on the CDC change in recommends about vaccine order public health experts & "ethicists and the "fog of war", lies and trust, etc. found related reporting on the CDC a lot of new op-eds, decided to put them alll in one comment on the latest Covid News thread on 12/25-26

here ya go:DeWine says Ohio

artappraiser — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 08:54:02 +0000

In reply to I'm basically with Antonio on

here ya go:DeWine says Ohio teachers, school staff to be next group to receive COVID-19 vaccine

@ TheHill.com, 12/23/20 09:39 PM EST

(Hey, maybe more people will finally take voting for governor of their state more seriously after the lovely Trump presidency?)

What did these "ethicists"

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 08:14:25 +0000

In reply to I'm basically with Antonio on

What did these "ethicists" say in March when the CDC said masks were useless?

the irony--

artappraiser — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 07:47:05 +0000

In reply to and so then you are also

the irony--

When the CDC is willing to kill thousands of people in the name of social justice, it's hard to know whom or what to trust.

So I wrote about its shocking failure of judgment, and my crisis of faith in America’s institutions, for @JoinPersuasion.

THREADhttps://t.co/hQub3kDsN8
— Yascha Mounk (@Yascha_Mounk) December 23, 2020

I'm basically with Antonio on

artappraiser — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 07:22:46 +0000

In reply to OH WAIT, they did hear the

I'm basically with Antonio on ACIP:

Everyone with 'ethicist' in their job title seem to be secular stand-ins for a rabbi or a priest, weaving in harebrained metaphysics under the guise of 'science' for people who think themselves too smart for religion.
— Antonio García Martínez (@antoniogm) December 24, 2020

And I think it's their job to convince us they are correct, not the other way around. Meanwhile, I've read Yglesias and Nate Silver long enough to know what they're about, I might disagree but I trust that they don't have an agenda to lie to the public. FURTHERMORE, just like with a priest or rabbi, this is all rhetorical because the FACTS are

Individual states are responsible for creating their own vaccine distribution plans.
— MIT Technology Review (@techreview) December 4, 2020

States are meant to follow general guidance from the CDC’s Interim Playbook for Covid-19, which was shaped by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) with input from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. https://t.co/S87xC3RO9X
— MIT Technology Review (@techreview) December 4, 2020

I notice the use of the word "interim" there. hmmmm...

Anybody seriously think Gov. De Santis is going to follow ACIP recommendations?

Heck, today I listened to Gov. Cuomo say he doesn't think the Feds are taking the mutation seriously enough, but he is going to, because he wants to avoid anything like this spring ever happening again, and he doesn't want to have to absolutely kill the state's economy either. (Everyone coming through JFK from the UK is getting a little visit from a sheriff at their temporary place of abode to make sure they are observing quarantine, even though they were tested by the airline.)

Yeah, dealing with "family

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 06:47:00 +0000

In reply to actually, I found this

Yeah, dealing with "family legacies" has that penchant for going off the rails.

It's a bit ironic, black anti-racism activists insisting the right to profit ad-infinitum off of 1 member's accidental genetic superiority. That might lead to eugenics or racist thinking, y'know? Playing the genetic lottery for fun and prizes?

Oprah tells it well....

But Winfrey says, “I certainly do not feel that it is HBO’s responsibility or mine or (director George C. Wolfe's) — or Rebecca Skloot’s even — to now make sure that the family has money for the rest of their days,” she says. “The fact that they were never compensated for any of those cells by any of the drug companies, that is really unfortunate. I do think they should have been compensated by somebody who profited from it.”

Still, to end positively (i didn't even know about her and her cells), i think it was interesting how the world looked at that time, the limits and new horizons of medicine at that point, including for enabling blacks out of poverty in post-war times.

The Legacy of Henrietta Lacks

In 1951, a young mother of five named Henrietta Lacks visited The Johns Hopkins Hospital complaining of vaginal bleeding. Upon examination, renowned gynecologist Dr. Howard Jones discovered a large, malignant tumor on her cervix. At the time, The Johns Hopkins Hospital was one of only a few hospitals to treat poor African-Americans.

As medical records show, Mrs. Lacks began undergoing radium treatments for her cervical cancer. This was the best medical treatment available at the time for this terrible disease. A sample of her cancer cells retrieved during a biopsy were sent to Dr. George Gey's nearby tissue lab. For years, Dr. Gey, a prominent cancer and virus researcher, had been collecting cells from all patients who came to The Johns Hopkins Hospital with cervical cancer, but each sample quickly died in Dr. Gey’s lab. What he would soon discover was that Mrs. Lacks’ cells were unlike any of the others he had ever seen: where other cells would die, Mrs. Lacks' cells doubled every 20 to 24 hours.

Today, these incredible cells— nicknamed "HeLa" cells, from the first two letters of her first and last names — are used to study the effects of toxins, drugs, hormones and viruses on the growth of cancer cells without experimenting on humans. They have been used to test the effects of radiation and poisons, to study the human genome, to learn more about how viruses work, and played a crucial role in the development of the polio vaccine.

Although Mrs. Lacks ultimately passed away on October 4, 1951, at the age of 31, her cells continue to impact the world.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/henriettalacks/

actually, I found this

artappraiser — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 06:33:37 +0000

In reply to You don't explain why you're

actually, I found this article that Oprah found some of the related issues a "disappointing" experience (could it be because it's a little like someone trying to collect royalties in perpetuity after their great grandma donated a kidney, Oprah?) Note in the article the explanation of the foundation that author Rebecca Skloot set up and what it does. More along the lines of your thinking.

I'm not interested in discussing it further, however. Way past my pay grade--the discussion of monetarizing body parts, and then who "owns" them in perpetuity. See like fetal tissue research...

You don't explain why you're

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 24 Dec 2020 03:20:00 +0000

In reply to Not surprising that you are

You don't explain why you're outraged - just because it's someone black. I already told you *NO ONE* owns their cells coming out of the hospital, and that's *GOOD* - we don't want some white jerkoffs denying their blood or skin use for a black woman's bone marrow or blood transfusion, do you? I don't. And the law says we don't, as i tried to explain. Henrietta wouldn't own her cells from the hospital, nor would I.

Did Oprah ask her permission to tell Henrietta's story? Prolly not - isn't that a violation of the woman's privacy? Oh wait, we do that with every dead person, black, white, orange. The good stuff and the bad. But how is Oprah celebrating Lacks' life supporting the idea that she was treated horribly? Did the doctors try to save her, do largely what they could? Would it be wrong to treat her in a largely black medical institution because that's in practice "segregation", even if that black institution is better staffed and funded than many "white" ones? Should she flee predominately black Morehouse or Emory care for something that fits society's percentages? Leaks was treated at Johns Hopkins, which in 1951 must have been one of the best medical facilities in the world, whatever ward she was in. Was it wrong for her to be treated in a good American hospital when women in Pakistan or Uganda or Papua New Guinea didnt have any decent health facilities, when women in India were still expected to burn themselves up when their husbands died?

Did most of the people using HeLa cells throughout the years make a profit, or were they mostly interns and lab researchers and whoever that makes up the bulk of our healthcare system, including those abroad? Did they cover up her name, or just not know because few people know the names of the source of the cells that end up in their Petri dish, and only very rarely does it matter?

Here's a dumbass article at NewScientist suggesting we should make every medical donorship subject to the greed and profit motive of family members, as if these family members could have saved Lacks or any other patient, as if the example of Lacks' cell line isn't a noon to civilization and a great example if why we *DONT* want to limit scientific progress based in one stubborn family member's profit motive or anti-science feeling it whatever. Ever heard of Eminent Domain? 1 stubborn person can't hold up society? Sure, compensate where reasonable, but right now Covid's killing over 3000 people a day. Is it some big right to keep the rest of the world from using your cells and mine and 1 billion others' cells to search for a cure? Is our big takeaway that Pfizer and Moderna And Oxford-AstraZeneca should slow the fuck Down And make sure they have release forms for every cell line and virus sample and whatever other piss, shit, blood and bone sample they have, and shut the cure for billions down if they don't have the right 427 stroke b slash 8? If it's a Hispanic or Asian person whose cells could make a breakthrough in a common black disease, are you against?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2250449-genetic-privacy-we-must-lea...