dagblog - Comments for "Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich"

There's nothing hypothetical

ondioline — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:33:48 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

There's nothing hypothetical about it. You think Kucinich's approach is the right one. You think Kucinich's bill is best. You think Kucinich's reforms are the reforms the American people need and want. For the sake of this discussion, I'm willing to concede all of those points. You still haven't addressed mine:

In order for Kucinich's bill to become law, it must pass both the House and the Senate. This is not hypothetical. It's not K Street CW (though I had a cup of coffee on K Street). It's not sophisticated, Inside-The-Beltway punditry (though I am coming to you live from Washington, DC). It's not sophomoric analysis. It's not analysis at all. It's a simple fact. I haven't even asked you to address why this right and true and virtuous piece of legislation, with 92 wise solons serving as co-sponsors, hasn't been passed by the House. I'm not asking you to make a list of the 217 Representatives who would support such a bill were it to come to a vote. I'm not trying to ask you something that is unfair or outside the realm of your knowledge, experience, expertise, or time. I'm just asking you to ground your assertion in the political reality that Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Rahm Emanuel, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Steny Hoyer, and yes, Dennis Kucinich face: Name 51 Senators who would support such a bill should it be brought to a vote.

Surely you don't think that, if such a bill were passed by both legislative bodies, President Obama would veto it. Of course he would sign it. I'm within walking distance of the White House and I've got a clean security status. I'll walk a box of pens down myself. It's a lovely day. So let's stipulate, you and I, that this final hurdle would be easily surmountable... And let's also stipulate that the right and honorable Representative Kucinich has the votes in the House (I don't think either of us believes that he's close, but this is a minor footnote). Name 51 Senators who would support this bill.

I hope you don't believe me uncharitable in pressing my assertion, but until you address what I'm asking here, I stand by it: You have to have the votes. For the sake of shedding more light on what you're thinking here, I'll spot you 40 Senators. Various sources have reported that 40 Democrats have indicated their willingness to support the inclusion of the public option in a reconciliation measure. I know this is not an apples-to-apples comparison, but I don't want you to think I'm an unfair guy... So let's also stipulate that each of those 40 senators would also back Kucinich's bill. That leaves you with 60 remaining senators from which to find 11 votes.

You're the Whip, Oleeb... Everything rests with the Senate. I've taken the filibuster off the table. And you've got 40 Democrats in hand. Representative Kucinich's brave and worthy leadership has helped shepherd his bill through the House. I've got a box of pens on my desk right now. I'll start walking to the West Entrance as soon as you tell me which eleven of the sixty remaining Senators are going to vote for this bill. It's 4:30 right now. I can be there by 5:15... If you get to it, this is tonight's top story, in primetime, on all the national news broadcasts. But you've gotta have the votes...

Except, of course, the

Jason Everett Miller — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:54:00 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

Except, of course, the "offending" quote had nothing to do with my actual argument. I see your Strawman and raise you a Red Herring.

Say again?

Jason Everett Miller — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:51:46 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

Say again?

It's frightening to see the

Zeno_of_Citium — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:44:47 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

It's frightening to see the corporate dems attach Dennis, really because he IS a progressive and for no other reason than he reveals them for who they are, industry puppets.... The little fascists are so smug in the there control over the gov. It's a Shame that real liberals can't find a creative way to get their message out to ordinary people, the way the fascist have the MSM to saturate the planet with their right wing meme.

Here's the perfect example of

oleeb — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:10:12 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

Here's the perfect example of the absurdity and hypocrisy of the attacks on Kucinich. There's a story on WhoRunsGov that states the following:

"First up: Dem Rep Jim Marshall, a prominent Blue Dog who voted No last time but was believed to be open to backing the Senate bill, is now a definite No, his spokesperson confirms."

Where are the cacophony of voices attaking and condemning Marshall as a Quisling collaborator with the Republicans? Where are the accusations that he's being a Ralph Nader? This Georgia faux Democrat's opposition to the bill draws no such fire and Marshall will not be made a scapegoat despite his support for the Obama plan is far more crucial than Kucinich's.

As a practical matter in the

oleeb — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:02:15 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

As a practical matter in the modern era it is the White House that writes the basic legislative proposals it considers it's high priority items. When Pres. and Congress are contolled by the same party, the White House coordinates how to handle the legislation, what committee/committees it will move through and what is and is not allowed to come out of committee and onto the floor. The idea that Congress really writes the White House's top legislation is simply not accurate. HCR was a prime example of playing this game. Emmanuel was completely in charge of everything going on in the Senate and in the House at every major turn and in every significant negotiation from start to finish.

Okay, let's call it a day.

yntheworld — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:57:03 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

Okay, let's call it a day. Nobody leaves till they help clean up the mess.

And they would get better

tao — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:50:56 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

And they would get better health insurance too. At best these people now get the same coverage they deny to others.

Thanks to many who contributed to this discussion today.

This is your argument?

readytoblowagasket — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:48:31 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

This is your argument? Seriously?

Well, I grew up in Dennis's district in Cleveland. Dennis was mayor of my city. So I happen to know a lot about him. What would you like to hear? We go way back.

That's funny considering I

Zipperupus — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:42:22 +0000

In reply to Corporate Whores Scapegoating And Smearing Kucinich

That's funny considering I have never heard a lover of Kucinich make mention of this transformation.