dagblog - Comments for "LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy"

I know you're still reacting

clearthinker — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:57:01 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

I know you're still reacting to being labeled 'daft' as well.

Really? Just another thing you got wrong.

Be well, my friend.

Once again, we stand facing

miguelitoh2o — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:04:27 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

Once again, we stand facing each other stroking, stroking, stroking... And as I said above, I’m not really interested in conducting the circle jerk your comments so often lead to. I'm truly sorry I upset you so by calling you 'Dude". I know you're still reacting to being labeled 'daft' as well. Your continuance in maintaining, that I built my argument upon my throw away statement that there was a technological boom in the 60s/70s betrays your obtuseness. It does nothing to wipe the grime from the lens through which your 'clear' thoughts evaluate the world around you. I can only repeat, and hope some of this gets through. Other than that, I can only suggest, as you did so often on a recent thread, that you review my previous comment, and perhaps visit a power plant. Cheers!

DUDE! You focus on the

clearthinker — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:37:09 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

DUDE!

You focus on the technical accuracy

Yes, because, unlike you, I want my understanding of the world to be accurate and based on facts.

Most people here like the "pile-on" method. When they see a bunch of other people doing something, they feel emboldened as well.

The bottom line is that the general level of sophistication of the TPM discussions has dropped steadily after the election (and I think has dropped since Obama beat Hillary in the primaries).

If you feel I have no respect for an argument that isn't cogent and factual -- you are correct. I have no sympathy when your house washes away after someone told you not to build it on the sand. Many on this thread and TheraP's Dean thread are not sure why Dean didn't move farther along. It's simple: he didn't have the appeal he needed. But you can talk to this group of "Deaniacs" about as easily as HillaryIs44 group. (The fact is, I, too, was intrigued by Howard Dean -- though not as much as many here -- and can deal with his loss not being a "conspiracy against him".) But instead of dealing with facts, they deal with myths, and instead of having a reasonable time explaining cause and effect, they have to go to conspiracy.

None of this serves the general electorate. As I mentioned to dikkday last night: everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean all opinions are equal or even worthy of discussion. The opinions not worthy of discussion aren't those contrary to mine -- they are those built on sand.

What's an example of a "dumb" opinion? On dikkday's thread on the constitutional thread, there were a group of people who wanted to think of the people as the "fourth branch" of government. Why? Perhaps because it gave them a theory that they could discuss and sound intelligent. Unfortunately, they showed a complete lack of understanding on the basis of the formation of our government. I was lambasted, of course, because I pointed out the error.

The thread became very quite however, without all the passive aggressive, pile-on comments once a few pointed out that I was correct.

Many of the people here are willfully ignorant. Your comment about tossing out the point that your "facts" -- on which you based your argument -- weren't facts, really surprised me. I suggest you tune your perception to reality rather than vice versa.

I think there's been plenty

oleeb — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:38:03 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

I think there's been plenty of foreshadowing about what's going to go down. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

It's DLC all the way and then some. Hanging out with Will, Kristol, and Brooks? Fashioning the stimulus to appease Republicans instead of invigorate our moribund economy? A health care proposal that is essentially a massive subsidy program for propping up the insurance interests? No investigations let alone prosecutions of the Bush regime's multiple, obvious, blatant and very serious criminal acts? What about any of this gives us hope for real change? All I see are signs pointing toward a minor tweaking of the status quo, pro-corporate, centrist policies that are unlikely to meet the challenges we face in adequate fashion. Maybe all these signs are wrong and don't mean what they appear to mean, but usually they do.

Dear CT, We could spend an

miguelitoh2o — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:29:37 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

Dear CT, We could spend an inordinate amount of time running laps around the inside of your cranium, and we'd end up just where we started, inside your brain-pod. Try to keep focused on the original premise. We were talking about decision-making and leadership. Does it start from the top or from the bottom? Oleeb's post suggests it originates from the top. You and Jason posit it begins with the electorate. I use the example of the space program as a federal program that originated at the top. You focus on the technical accuracy of the part of my statement stating that there was a space/technological boom in the 60s/70s. Like a dog with a bone you seize on whatever inaccuracy your brouhaha elite scientist brain perceives in that part of my statement. We end off topic, with you referring me to a reading list, some of which I've read. I could choose to debate the accuracy of my statement, but to what end? I’m not really interested in conducting the circle jerk your comments too often lead to.

Clearthinker, I know you’ve heard this before, but add me to the list of those who think you flatter yourself with your chosen username. I’ve heard you accuse others here of wanting to ‘kill the messenger’ when they have taken umbrage with your comments. Let me give you a clue: Those posters probably never got as far as your ‘message’. Most are deflected by your condescending attitude long before they get that far. The dialectic style you employ while perhaps acceptable around the Clearthinker household, should be saved for the company of human beans raised by feral animals when outside the confines of your domicile. A few months ago I found a particular blog and comments of interest here at TPM and suggested a friend read it. At one point during her review of the comments, she looked up and asked who this “pompous asshole, Clearthinker” was. Now you may choose to discount that as another intellectually challenged humanoid incapable of understanding your uber intelligent prognostications, but I assure you she is way up there in terms of those things you hold dear, (IQ, level of education, etc). I know you are intelligent as well, or I give you that benefit of the doubt, but without your exercising some basic communication skills, I guess what I’m sayin’, is getting to the nugget of truth in your comments is not worth the effort for me. In that regard, I will respond to your comments henceforth if I find them possessing at minimum a tinge of intellectual curiosity to understand what it is I, or other posters here are trying to convey. If conversely I perceive you ‘acting out’ like an attention starved child seeking validation of your intellectual 'superiority via your well known pomposity and inclination to ‘lecture’, you can count me out. Cheers!

Thanks to all of you for

oleeb — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:33:14 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to read the post and for your comments!

One is even going to be

CVille Dem — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:24:31 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

One is even going to be Secretary of State. I do believe her vote was intended to show toughness for her future run for President, rather than a belief that Bush was right. No decision would have been better, in that case.

Exactly. I am beating the

DKC/Feral Cat — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:20:03 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

Exactly. I am beating the drum here in Montana because Baucus has decided to be a leader in Health care. We elected him. So we should have some say. He doesn't listen very well, but if it's overwhelming, it could help. Jon Tester does listen to the phone calls jamming his offices as in the recent bailout vote. He voted against it. His staffer told me that the phones never stopped ringing.

Obama claimed to be such a

CVille Dem — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:19:12 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

Obama claimed to be such a leader on the campaign trail but it seems pretty clear to me that was all marketing and not intended to ever become a reality. The whole "movement" stuff was a means to propel his campaign mechanism, not to generate real change.

The man has not been inaugurated yet. You simply have nothing to base this on. Marketing vs Leadership? Already? In fact this was your opinion during the campaign if I remember. Give him a chance. I share your concerns about the health care issue, and I think this blog does a great service to highlight what HAS happened in the past and what COULD happen this time. But before you condemn him, let's see what he does.

Brilliant and makes steam

DKC/Feral Cat — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:15:38 +0000

In reply to LEAKED! Secret Memo to DC Democrats on Health Care Reform Strategy

Brilliant and makes steam come out of my ears. So we should use this as a template for pushing back, starting now. We need the 350 billion in TARP for health care. End of discussion. Implement Medicare for All tomorrow.