dagblog - Comments for "Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?"

You don't populate a

bluebell — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:58:27 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

You don't populate a government with traitors if you want it to work. This isn't about retribution, it's about trust and values and principles. In a democracy, you defeat people who do not share your values and principles or they defeat you and your values and principles. You can compromise over potholes and sidewalks but you can't compromise on issues like war. To govern is to choose, to govern is not to be stabbed in the back.

Seems you miss the real point

oleeb — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:16:52 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

Seems you miss the real point here. Giving "them" a "chance" means waiting so long that nothing will ever be done. This isn't about retribution (though that would be nice). It is about holding people accountable when they abuse their power, break the law, etc... By failing to do so, one only encourages the behavior in the future since there isn't the slightest disincentive not to do so because you know the Democrats will never do anything about it. That's the point here.

Which is more pressing,

tpmgary — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:25:42 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

Which is more pressing, creating a government that works, or prosecuting one that didn't?

Let us relax for a

seniorobserver — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:11:20 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

Let us relax for a moment-Barack does not beome President until Janu 20,2009 and the lame duck sessionof Congress is same badly split ineffectual body it has been since 2006, The Republican Party still has the magic defacto veto in the Senate. Rumors especially about issues such as DOJ not prusuing the morally bnankrupt members of this adminisration are just that and particualry suspect in my book for the timing. Let us understand that it will take sometime to urge the departments and agencies of Bushies and to get control of them especially with the burrowing into ciivil service of many of the mid level architects of the disasters of last few years. The problems across the board faced by our new President are worst any President has faced an economic collapse and two ongoing wars as well as universal mistrust of our country by the whole rest of the world friends and enemies alike. We have had eight years of ideology oriented government. I am willing to give him a chance to actually convert the institution of government to some degree of functionality before launching major programs of retribution such as Republicans
would pursue. The federal goverment is like a major supertanker changing course takes awhile supetankers and federal government do not turn on a dime. Clean up government, handle the economic and war crisis, revitalize the DOJ and repurpose our military to rational functions-Then worry about punishment

I hope you're wrong on that

miguelitoh2o — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:05:42 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

I hope you're wrong on that one. That's all I can say as it's all speculation at this point. I agree that we need to make our expectations of investigation/prosecution known now. My only point is that I wouldn't expect glaring investigations of the Bush 43 regime right off the bat. I do wonder when we will see significant oversighton the issues by the Democratic controlled house and senate that are all ready within their purview such as how our money has been spent in Iraq.

I think it may be a good idea

synchronicity — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:42:36 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

I think it may be a good idea for us all to start talking about who in the democratic party has the balls to be a good chair for the DNC... then we start petitioning that person to find us some leaders with real backbone that won't play victim to the republican party or each other.

The issue is not whether the

oleeb — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:29:12 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

The issue is not whether the new admin might take up these questions immediately. The issue is whether such things will ever be taken up and that is the upsetting part.

When one demonstrates to the world over and over again that no offense is bad enough for you to exact any price from the offending party eventually the world will understand that you're basically a wimp and that you and the things you say you believe in can be attacked by anyone, any time with impunity and without any fear of being held accountable no matter how outrageous, offensive and even criminal that behavior might be.

The whole line of argument that Obama should be given "a chance" is folly in my opinion. If no pressure is brought to bear on him right now at the outset, then giving him a "chance" is tantamount to giving him license to ignore those things that you find important and want addressed. The signals he and his people are sending are that the whole change thing was either pure marketing or he himself is the change but in any event the status quo and it's supporters have not a thing to worry about. That's the real problem here.

The issue may be more about

miguelitoh2o — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:00:33 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

The issue may be more about our economic survival than retribution at present. There is little that the Obama administration will gain by pursuing these issues during at least the first part of his first term as president. He needs to build consensus on the major issues confronting the country now in order to pass the legislation he wants. I hope there will be investigations into the matters of which you speak and subsequent prosecutions if feasible, but attempting this in the beginning of his administration will not serve us well in pursuing the legislative changes we will need. There will be time for said redress following a successful year or four in office. Regarding the torture issue, rescinding the charter of Gitmo will go a long way toward sending the message that we don't condone it. My fear is that any such prosecutions will end up scapegoating some persons way down the food chain from where we all know these decisions originated.

Your assertion that "the winning candidate said he was going to change the way Washington does business and that was his mantra for two years." and the implication that Obama's consensus building is more of the same flies in the face of what my perception is of the divisive political gambits of the last 8 years.

I agree with your sentiments. When W appears on the television screen, I usually find myself murmuring to myself my disdain for the man and his policies. Let's all take a deep breath and give Obama a chance, and let's not expect all of our wishes to come true on January 21.

To Diachronic, your question regarding Specter and Obama is an interesting one. I think Obama will be a better consensus builder than Specter. Arlen has almost as many detractors on his side of the aisle as he has supporters.

In fairness to obama, he has

diachronic — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:03:01 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

In fairness to obama, he has never pretended to be a reformer or to be committed to achieving redress for the innumerable wrongs accumulated over the past decade, and he has been silent on the structural damage done to our system of governance, understandably perhaps, because his own Party has to bear much of the blame for it.
His vote on the FISA travesty shows that one can be a Constitutional scholar and a proponent of the Imperial Presidency at the same time. I had not thought that was possible.
The real question I have is academic and arcane: Will Obama prove to be a better President than Arlen Specter would have been?

A pair of what? Rabbit ears?

coonsey — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 07:02:39 +0000

In reply to Just exactly what would it take for the Democrats to grow a pair?

A pair of what? Rabbit ears? They've apparently been neutered long ago.