dagblog - Comments for "At What Cost Justice?"

Insightful observation.

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:07:07 +0000

In reply to So Chavez is reacting angily,

Insightful observation.

Obama-Clinton haven't done

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:06:22 +0000

In reply to I hadn't read those remarks.

Obama-Clinton haven't done anything that can be called a foreign policy. The only departure I've seen from the last administration's practices has been the projection of more conciliatory messages, like Obama's Iran video and Clinton's "reset" button. The soft touch approach may be part of but is not in itself a foreign policy.

It's early yet. Obama's primary tests have been domestic, not international, and I expect to see something develop. But as of now, there is no foreign policy.

So Chavez is reacting angily,

acanuck — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:40:14 +0000

In reply to Agreed. Worse, such edicts

So Chavez is reacting angily, at the end of March, to remarks Obama made back in January? There's a certain amount of theatre going on here. Perhaps Chavez is setting a baseline of anger from which he can walk back a bit at next month's Summit of the Americas. Or not, depending on how he sizes up Obama.

Just like Iran's Khamenei, Chavez senses there's an opportunity here for a game-changing breakthrough in relations. They're both talking tough because that's the safe default position for now. I'm pretty sure Obama will abandon Bush's tactic of backing ill-conceived coups and insurrections.

Slightly off topic. Now back to our regular programming.

I hadn't read those remarks.

jock maccrea — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:07:52 +0000

In reply to Agreed. Worse, such edicts

I hadn't read those remarks. How do you think Obama is doing on foreign policies in general? I can't get a handle on it. One moment he seems sensible then another he seems to be following some old play book. I can't put my finger on the details, but the ground seems a bit shaky. Also, do you have any idea about which of his advisors have the most say on these matters? And do Obama and Clinton seem always on the same track?

Agreed. Worse, such edicts

Michael Wolraich — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:54:29 +0000

In reply to There's not much America can

Agreed. Worse, such edicts can even enhance a "rebel" leader's popularity. A perfect example was the Bush administration's repeated boneheaded declarations of support for Chavez's opponents. How can the ambassador of Venezuela not understand that US support is a political kiss of death in that country? Sadly, I'm not sure that Obama gets it either.

There's not much America can

jock maccrea — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:27:28 +0000

In reply to At What Cost Justice?

There's not much America can do in this instance nor the EU or UN either. Such edicts coming down to a country like this inflames millions, however justified it may be. Bringing "civilization" to the world has meaning in the West. But not everywhere else.

Genghis: [Drinks all the

Michael Wolraich — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:12:39 +0000

In reply to I'm going to get all

Genghis: [Drinks all the water. Belches loudly.]

I'm going to get all

littleblackpropaganda — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:46:49 +0000

In reply to At What Cost Justice?

I'm going to get all sophomoric-philosophy-undergrad on Sudan for a second :)

Lucretius: Can there be justice where there is such scarcity.

Marcus Aurelius: But without scarcity, would justice even exist.

Rumi: If there were a thousand men and a single glass of water, would it be justice to divide the water into 1,000 sips? Or should no one drink. Or should one drink. Or should the few drink. Or should the young drink. The only true justice is in the search for more water.

Closing of aid offices is

Michael Wolraich — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:35:00 +0000

In reply to great post. given our

Closing of aid offices is reason enough. The point about about Bashir's relinquishing of power was a response to the idea that the indictment would somehow help push him from power, which is what the chief prosecutor has suggested. Bashir is nowhere near relinquishing power, regardless of what the court does. But if he were ever to consider it sometime in the future, the indictment could serve as disincentive.

great post. given our

Deadman — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:28:16 +0000

In reply to At What Cost Justice?

great post. given our discussion on the AIG bonuses and the Congressional reaction, this provides another example of whether symbolic measures are important, even if they ultimately undermine or distort the aims we are trying to achieve.

Do you think the indictment really has an impact on whether Bashir decides to cede power or turn himself in? Or are you just arguing that his reaction to the indictment - closing some international aid offices and circling the wagons - is reason enough to condemn the action? I think I can buy that, because in this case the stakes are so much higher than in the AIG example (i.e. genocide, continued terror) and the symbolism so much less important (i.e. is an indictment really necessary to express the international community's condemnation of his behavior?)