dagblog - Comments for "Waiting for Zuckerberg"

...one of my wife's cousins

Austin Train — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 17:22:48 +0000

In reply to There are problems with all

...one of my wife's cousins was complaining about workers getting paid for playing cards on the weekend because of some union requirement.

It may have been featherbedding. It may also have been a requirement, based on safety, perhaps, that they be present, to respond to a contingency rather than for anything specific. Or it may simply have been someone with an axe to grind, in which case directions to the nearest lumber camp might have been in order .

Fire stations are someplace where it may appear the crews are there being paid to consume chili and play checkers in the company of dalmatians, though I don't know any serious person who advocates eliminating them.

Libertarians, maybe. Serious people, no.

Randi Weingarten broadcast a

Donal — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 17:21:23 +0000

In reply to There are problems with all

Randi Weingarten broadcast a clarification of tenure this morning on CBS Sunday Morning.

There was a point in time

A Guy Called LULU — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 17:03:50 +0000

In reply to Waiting for Zuckerberg

There was a point in time when I was very involved, though one step removed, from the school system in a large Texas city. My then wife started her career teaching in the "Follow Through" program which filled the gap between "Head Start" and first grade. Her first few years were at an all black school. By her second year she was teaching to the test because she wanted to keep her job and the program was being evaluated for a continuation of funding. They needed to show success. That was administration policy, not the choice of teachers. I saw young idealistic teachers buck that push and lose their jobs as a result.

I could spend a long time telling true stories which either supported or indicted teacher unions. My bottom line here though is that the unionization of teachers is one of the smaller factors in the decline of public school education.

If I was in charge of throwing money at the problem I would decrease class size. That is a far more effective first step than sending the kids to an overcrowded class in a modern new building with shiny fixtures. It is far from the complete solution.
The biggest problem is that the nature of the children entering school has changed. The raw material that the teachers have to work with is different. It has been different and getting more so for about sixty years. The teachers of today were themselves subject to the affect of this change. Without trying to support the entire case I will say that if DaVinci had grown up in front of a TV he would be much more likely to not achieve much above the norm of today.

There are problems with all

Donal — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 16:52:19 +0000

In reply to The fact that conservatives

There are problems with all organizations - corporations, church groups and unions. At a family picnic a few years ago, one of my wife's cousins was complaining about workers getting paid for playing cards on the weekend because of some union requirement. I'm sure crap like that happens, and I'm sure crap happens in the teacher's union, but I also know we can't trust management to treat workers fairly without unions. Insert that Churchill quote about the worst possible system except for all the others.

Interesting. In an entire

Austin Train — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 16:10:59 +0000

In reply to The fact that conservatives

Interesting. In an entire society that has shifted its focus to the near-pure short term, you focus on one segment and one segment alone of that society for what is essentially sharing that view.

Unions were established first and foremost to afford a measure of protection to their members.

The dance of change advocacy in the educational arena begins with "First, let's take out those pesky teachers' unions, and then do something!" It's a completely adversarial interaction and asking the teachers to unilaterally disarm is even more short-sighted than the union at its most steadfast.

Let's see some evidence that the administrators are pushing meaningful reform that will benefit the students. I suspect that if they are, and not merely pushing to weaken and destroy teachers' protections, many teachers - a more dedicated, motivated group is rarely found - would likely get on board. That they strive to protect their members is first understandable, and only second a part of a much larger problem they are seemingly blamed for in toto.

Scapegoating teachers is not the solution, nor is pointing the finger at their unions. Remember, teachers have their students for what, six hours a day? Their families and the world at large have them for the rest of the time, and usually have four to six years upfront to shape them and their response to things.

I say all of this as someone who has had the great fortune to have had outstanding teachers at multiple times in life, ranging from Jesuits, to martial arts instructors, through to land-grant university professors. They all had one thing in common. Where many teachers, even good ones, are charged with teaching their students how to repeat something, or worse, repeat it back (teaching to a test, aka NCLB's approach) the truly great ones teach them how to understand something, thus, they teach their students how to learn - perhaps the most valuable lesson of all.

The fact that conservatives

Michael Wolraich — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:06:47 +0000

In reply to Waiting for Zuckerberg

The fact that conservatives love to bash the teacher's unions does not mean that the unions are acting as a positive force for students.

I haven't watched (or read) Waiting for Superman yet, but I think we can all agree that the public school system needs reform. And in almost every case that I've read of public administrators pushing reform, the unions have almost always fiercely resisted. Now if I believed that the unions were primarily concerned about the students, or if I felt that the unions were offering serious alternatives, I might take their objections more seriously. But I when I read about unions fighting tooth and nail to maintain rigid tenure systems and protect incompetent teaching staff at failing schools, it gives me the impression that what unions are really fighting for is the status quo.

I don't know how much unions have contributed to the problems of the public school system, and I don't know whether charter schools or any other contemporary solutions will save the system, but I believe that change has to happen, and I believe that the teacher's unions are dogmatically opposed to any change that impacts the careers of their members, no matter what it does for the students. So in that sense, they have earned their reputations.

Donal, have you ever been to

Beetlejuice — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 13:35:55 +0000

In reply to Waiting for Zuckerberg

Donal, have you ever been to an ocean? Did you notice it's not just one wave but a steady succession of them one right after another? Every once in a while...blue moon perhaps...the ocean is calm, but it picks back up again. A relentless but subtle pounding upon the shores breaking down anything in it's path.

I remember reading on once powerful blog...its' name I forget that has fallen from grace with its' patrons...a reference to the reason why Unions are in such disfavor within a specific portion of the public. During the 70's, the business elites realized Unions had been using their member's union dues to purchase stock in the very same companies their members worked. They owned so much stock they were close to having enough clout to steer the business to suit the members of their Unions best interest, not shareholders, even though they were shareholders...kinda oxymoronish isn't it? Truly, this is socialism! Workers at the controls of the business instead of being controlled by the business? How UnAmerican!!!

What's odd is the vocal group against Unions look for nickel and dime issues that resonate with their group...issues that can't be dissected and resolved with ease so they can ram their freight train through it at high speed in the hopes of causing as much damage as they can. They rely upon the rest of us not to react. And we comply with their wishes simply because the issues are complex and there are no easy answers. Couple that with their intent to push a specific agenda through without compromise and we find ourselves in the quagmire we're stuck in today.

My own two cents worth on the issues of schools is the change occurred when schools began to focus studies for specific challenges rather than a well rounded curriculum intense enough to give the student enough knowledgeable will power to tackle issues on their own with confidence in their abilities to learn and master tasks with ease. Today, high schools are task orientated to give some students academic understanding of materials and others technical knowledge in specific task areas. In my opinion, schools are narrowing their focus in what they teach to whom. And it's that narrowing of focus is the problem.

The real question is what are we teaching children for? What is the ultimate goal of learning in public schools? The fact is public education is a State's Right issue...education is not enumerated in the Constitution for the Federal government to exercise. With State legislatures at the whim of the public, a group can be energized to push their agenda which puts the public school curriculum into chaos. In my opinion, the Federal government should establish educational standards each State must follow so the whole Nation progresses equally and no child is left behind because someone in their State has decided to do otherwise. Couple that with national agreed upon curriculum complete with proven teaching methods where all students progress at an equal pace and attain specific levels of knowledge and understanding of material and our educational trauma will be cured. But that takes money, effort and time. So is the public willing to pay more in State and Federal taxes to see this come to fruition, or do they just want to sit on their buttes and whine and complain?

By the way, I use to be an part-time instructor at a local community college. I saw for myself the difference between older individuals looking to enhance their understanding of a subject and those fresh out of high school. The high schoolers were there just going through the motions of showing up, not asking questions, turning in assignments late all while expecting to get a passing grade.

Good on you for this, Donal.

we are stardust — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 12:44:03 +0000

In reply to Waiting for Zuckerberg

Good on you for this, Donal. Since it's Education Week, and we heard from the President on Arne's plans, a lot is being written in protest, and likely the Waiting for Superman film stirred up some ruckus, too. I'd been reading about the corporatization of even the public schools, and a lot of it is worrisome. I tried to hunt up some of the pieces I'd read, settled on this opinion piece that has lots of links that spotlight the problems with neo-liberal education.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/73608

Great post. The Fox News

brewmn — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 03:05:32 +0000

In reply to Waiting for Zuckerberg

Great post. The Fox News affiliate here in Chicago devoted nearly twenty minutes to this movie this week, repeatedly trumpeting the fact that it was made by the guy who made "An Inconvenient Truth." Obviously trying to suggest, "Look here libs! One of your own who blames the teachers unions for our education problems, and advocate vouchers and charter schools as a solution!" But what's really making me nuts about this debate is that so many "liberals," from the president on down, are actively supporting this argument.

Our country has been looking for an excuse to dump the poorest and the most difficult to educate off of their responsibility list for decades. With the active help of propagandists with unimpeachable progressive bona fides like Guggenheim, they may finally succeed.

Did you notice at the forum,

Resistance — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 02:42:45 +0000

In reply to Waiting for Zuckerberg

Did you notice at the forum, The Education Nation?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/krista-west/2010/09/28/nbc-nightly-news-shows-young-teacher-touching-third-rail-complaining-ab

The young teacher gets up and blames the Unions; because her Union contract is in the way, it prevents her from working 24/7

Suggesting what the heck is the matter with other teachers; not sacrificing all they’re time with they’re families and that teachers should have no life other than teaching.

The younger generation needs to get a clue.

That teacher ought to be fired for being so stupid.

What kind of values is she teaching? How to be a submissive slave.

http://perdidostreetschool.blogspot.com/