dagblog - Comments for "Fresh Eyes"

No, no, you're right - that

LisB — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:10:33 +0000

In reply to I want we the people to come

No, no, you're right - that one shouldn't be on the list. I got so carried away just writing out my wish list that I forgot to consider which items were considered "far left". My bad. I am sure you are correct in that just about everybody would consider that last one to be mainstream. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for spotting my error.

I want we the people to come

AmericanDreamer — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 17:46:00 +0000

In reply to Off the top of my head, I

I want we the people to come first over lobbyists and corporations....that's for starters.

If that is now a "far left" view...wow. If so, I find it hard to imagine a more graphic illustration of how far the terms of political debate have shifted, to the point where anyone might say with a straight face that that is now somehow a "far left" belief. If that question were polled nationally I would guess 70%, maybe more, would agree. If so, and that is a "far left" view, then we are in that important respect a "far left" country with a government dangerously out of sync with the citizenry.

My response when someone (not you, I know that's not what you're doing here) tries to pigeonhole and marginalize that as a "far left" view is to push back on that--ask them where they see themselves as located on the political spectrum, do they agree or disagree with that belief, what generally speaking is their concept of how our system of government is supposed to work, do they think the balance is working pretty well right now?

Off the top of my head, I

LisB — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:57:14 +0000

In reply to LisB, am curious, especially

Off the top of my head, I want Citizens United overturned....I want green jobs and infrastructure jobs to be a number one priority....I want withdrawal from Afghanistan....I want Halliburton and Cheney investigated for war crimes (although at one and the same time, having been a Republican I understood Ford's pardoning of Nixon and therefore can understand - almost - Obama's reluctance to go there)....I want we the people to come first over lobbyists and corporations....that's for starters.

LisB, am curious, especially

AmericanDreamer — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:44:24 +0000

In reply to Well I'm starting to find

LisB, am curious, especially coming from a former Republican, what are some examples of what you have in mind when you refer to "far-left" issue stances that you find appealing enough to put on your wish list?

Yours would be my answer as

AmericanDreamer — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:34:32 +0000

In reply to Actually, I just call them

Yours would be my answer as well.

Ok, so my takeaway from that is that if Democrats are running on issues such as those and lose in supposedly Blue Dog-only areas, the reason for the loss will almost never be that our candidate was "too liberal", "too left", "not mainstream", whatever--and unelectable on that basis.

A key element in the progress the GOP has made over decades has been to drive political discussion farther and farther to the right, to the point where even many Dems start to internalize the GOP view that, apparently, things like adequate financial reform, public green infrastructure jobs, and letting tax cuts on wealthy people expire when we're running astronomical deficits are somehow "left", or "too left", "too liberal", "fringe", or somehow non-mainstream issues.

If something progressives want done is not done (perhaps because Republicans have obstructed it, without fear of repercussions), it must be because it's too liberal, not mainstream. No matter how many indies and sensible Republican citizens may also want those things done, or be persuadable, or at least be willing to let them be tried.

All the GOP and the Right have to do is get us to concede that a candidate running on issues such as the ones mentioned above in supposedly Blue Dog-only territory is unelectable because "too liberal". If we accept that conclusion and fail to recruit and support progressive (so defined as meaning the above, not beliefs that really are left views that are much tougher sells with people not progressive Democrats) candidates in these areas, we forfeit any chance we have of getting a progressive majority in Congress.

The so-called leaders of the

Resistance — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 04:27:05 +0000

In reply to I look forward to the

The so-called leaders of the Democratic Party should be servants of the electorate, not the other way around.

The Democratic Party is set in it's ways, how will you force it to change?

It's ways are not Progressive.

You progressives need to be patient

They know; where else will you go? You are captive

They tell you have patience and the party will change its ways.

To bear with patience wrongs done to oneself is a mark of perfection, but to bear with patience wrongs done to someone else is a mark of imperfection and even of actual sin. Saint Thomas Aquinas

Abused patience turns to fury. Thomas Fuller

All commend patience, but none can endure to suffer.
Thomas Fuller

Is the patience of the American people that long suffering? Is there no outrage left in the country?
Andrew Greeley

Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice. George Jackson

You're disappointed in those

LisB — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 04:17:04 +0000

In reply to Thanks very much, LisB, for

You're disappointed in those who contributed to your post? Why, because you told us not to? Pshaw. We'll talk whether people want to shut us up or not, LOL....

Thanks very much, LisB, for

AmericanDreamer — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 04:06:30 +0000

In reply to Well I'm starting to find

Thanks very much, LisB, for kind words, and thanks to all for contributions to the discussion. I was tempted to say that I'm disappointed in all those who've contributed. But I doubt anyone would have believed me. Then again, some might be open-minded about that. :<)

Well I'm starting to find

LisB — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 03:46:21 +0000

In reply to Obey and LisB, good

Well I'm starting to find that the disagreements sometimes help, in the long run. Like Stilli, I come from the 'lock-step' Republican way of thinking, and I was very hurt and surprised when I discovered that asking for party unity from fellow Democrats was considered so very wrong. Luckily my skin is growing thicker and I am starting to find that I'd rather belong to a party that questions everything rather than a party that questions nothing. That being said, however, I still feel that the far-left is feeling left out and I don't know how to address them sometimes. A lot of my wish-list is far-left, but I'm able to compromise where others aren't. And I would like to see those who aren't willing to compromise find a firm place in a party that seems to be nullifying their voices more and more. America needs the far-left, very much! But lately it seems the two parties aren't giving them legitimacy, and I can't help but wonder what would happen if they branched out away from those two parties and created their own very vocal leftist party, one that a lot of Dems would gladly jump over to. Whether it be Green, or a new Progressive...

Either way, I thank you for this post because it's helped start a good discussion here, and it's helped open my eyes.

I look forward to the

LisB — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 03:35:25 +0000

In reply to Personally, I want

I look forward to the manifesto. I agree that the democratic party already should be the voice of progressives, but over the years only the opposite has happened and it seems progressives are starting to feel homeless already, no?