dagblog - Comments for "Where is China headed? "

Our problem is how we can

Orion — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 23:05:24 +0000

Our problem is how we can have our own Perestroika without everything falling apart.

We have a shining examples of publicly funded, privately administered services to our north, but for some reason we choose to completely ignore that possibility. That is not simply a reference to health care. Take a look at British Columbia's ferry system.

It's appropriate that they have the tagline "Experience the Difference." The WA state ferry system is a shell of that of its northern neighbor.

Crumbling infrastructure is right. Washington state should have identical services to BC. They both are host to a conglomeration of small towns and a bustling metropolis at its center. A look at the two disparaging websites shows the different mentalities. With gift certificates, bookstores and a cruise ship atmosphere, Canadians seem open to the concept of commoditizing public services, whereas public services and works in the United States are treated as welfare obligations. The top update on WA state's ferry website is "Wi-Fi is back up. Thank you for your patience."

Yeah. America is a real Mickey Mouse operation.

I think that the emerging

chucktrotter — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:32:25 +0000

In reply to I think China wants to test

I think that the emerging middle class was "firmly" put in its place in 1989 resulting in the Tiananmen Square debacle. The Chinese leaders wanted the fruits of capitalism without offering-up societal freedoms.

They are doing it because

David Seaton — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 21:22:24 +0000

In reply to If true, why did they

They are doing it because they consider that the "primary contradiction" is producing wealth so that China is independent and that health care is a "secondary contradiction": that China must become rich, before they can share the wealth. You may be aware that there is a significant difference between a social democrat and a Leninist, much less a Maoist. You have to imagine how frightened they were for their sovereignty when they found themselves alone facing the USA.

If true, why did they

artappraiser — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 19:55:11 +0000

In reply to Where is China headed?

If true, why did they privatize their entire health care system? And why do the reforms to it since then still provide incentives for wasteful ineffective care that preserve the profit motive for many providers and industries and still leaves much of the population with catastrophic risk?

see here

http://takingnote.tcf.org/2008/04/chinas-health-c.html

and here:

http://journal.shouxi.net/qikan/article.php?id=216829

Exactly: What I think

David Seaton — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 19:07:50 +0000

In reply to The Chinese were Chinese and

Exactly: What I think distinguishes the Chinese most is their effort at a synthesis of their own philosophy with what they find useful in western thought --->Confucius/Tao/Hegel/Marx/Lenin/Mao. Apparently the western philosopher that the Chinese can't understand at all is Kant, with his Categorical Imperatives... Everything in Chinese thought is relativist, that's where they connect with Hegel, Marx and Lenin, I think.

I definitely agree with you.

Michael Maiello — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 18:46:10 +0000

In reply to Projecting our cultural

I definitely agree with you. We've tended to assume that because American style republican democracy and capitalism can work together that they need each other. But even within our own society we see the severe tensions between the two and capitalism does not necesarily need or even tolerate democracy.

The Chinese were Chinese and

cmaukonen — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 18:35:06 +0000

In reply to Projecting our cultural

The Chinese were Chinese and Buddhist and Taoist long before they were communist.

Interesting problem

Beetlejuice — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 18:25:10 +0000

In reply to Where is China headed?

Interesting problem especially seeing how the GOPer's have become what they hate most...the American equivalent of the old Soviet regime.

Projecting our cultural

David Seaton — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 17:58:06 +0000

In reply to I think China wants to test

Projecting our cultural assumptions on the Chinese might lead us astray. I wrote a lot about this yesterday. One of the Chinese traditions of governance that I wasn't aware of before Professor Fisac's talk was "Legalism"... you might want to have a look at that, as you'll see a lot of today's China's rulers in it. I am not at all sure that the Chinese of China are as much interested in political expression as in the freedom to buy and sell stuff, which is a great village tradition. It seems to me that the Chinese have a certain fear of chaos and a ruler who isn't corrupt and dissolute, one who defends China's sovereignty against "foreign devils", can usually count on the people's loyalty. The "rule of heaven", I think it is called.

One idea that keeps coming back to me is that because of the Cold War's ideological struggle, we tend to identify capitalism with democracy and even God... This is really a propaganda construction, one which clouds our understanding. I doubt if the Chinese were ever really seduced by our propaganda any more than we were by theirs. I think they were impressed by our former ability to build good washing machines and TV sets. They imitate what they find useful.

I think China wants to test

Michael Maiello — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 17:27:23 +0000

In reply to Where is China headed?

I think China wants to test the notion that an emerging middle class will necessarily demand democracy or even a semblance of self rule. I wonder if people would consider their commercial freedom, without cultural and political freedom to be free enough?