dagblog - Comments for "Wow! DC Democrats Prove Dumber Than Anyone Thought: Republicans Reward Obama And Conservadems By Sinking The Spending Bill"

Of all the annoying

brewmn — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:20:31 +0000

In reply to Obviously you don't remember

Of all the annoying rhetorical tics and tricks of the anti-Obama left, this constant assertion that Bill Clinton was somehow a better liberal who really fought the progressive fight is the worst. I mean, Bill Clinton's presidency ended a mere ten years ago. Unless everybody who makes this assertion is less than twenty-five years old (and oleeb claims to have a grown son, so I'm pretty sure he doesn't have youth as an excuse), then their ignorance of the facts surrounding the Clinton years is just astounding, and simply inexcusable in anyone who claims to have some perspective on American politics. Every, and I mean every, criticism of Obama from the left was, or should have been, also made about Clinton.* Arguably even more so. And I know this because I was one those making those criticisms.

To claim Clinton was a progressive where Obama is not should disqualify you from lecturing others about their lack of fealty to the progressive cause. It's almost like ignorant ranters like oleeb want to look ridiculous.

*(This is in no way intended to argue that either Obama or Clinton should be held up as liberal heroes, although if the ACA leads to truly nationalized health care, Obama should be recognized for that achievement. Clinton's legacy, however is already clear: no legislative achievements of lasting significance, unless you credit repeal of Glass-Steagall and exemption of derivatives from regulation as contributing to the long-term economic decline of the American economy.)

Obviously you don't remember

tmccarthy0 — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:36:38 +0000

In reply to Your leader is so weak he

Obviously you don't remember 1994.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_lessons_of_94

First off, I'm not asking

Elusive Trope — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 19:52:49 +0000

In reply to Impressive regurgitation of

First off, I'm not asking anyone to cheer on anyone. There is very little to cheer about.

Do I ever tire of losing, you ask. A long time ago. But just because one is tired of losing doesn't mean one can choose what dynamics one wants to believe are in play. Of course there is a lot of corruption, incompentence, and cowardice amongst the Dems. Yet - here's one little facet of it all: the Republican agenda is facilitated by having its party members corrupted by wealthy elite forces, whereas the Democratic agenda is thwarted when its members are corrupt. Guess which side is going to win more often. Do I cheer that? No. If there is something other than rant on and on about it, I'll give it shot. In the primaries, if a better alternative is there I support him or her. Yet for the time being these are the folks in my coalition.

Is having the committee chairs worth having the likes of Sen. Nelson and my former senator Bayh in the coalition? Sometimes I wonder. Would it be better to be more pure and in the minority? There are days I say yes. Would I like to see the Republicans have 63 seats in the Senate? Hell no.

Now, in my humble opinion, I have concluded -- based on some serious speculation on my part - that your exact assessments about the nature of what is happening there is based on the erroneous belief that all the Democrats are as one entity, much like the borg. This leads you to make assessments on the outcome of their behavior based on the idea that they are operating with the same agenda, the same perceptions, the same conclusions, and the same priorities. In my humble opinion, nothing could be further the truth (well, there are some things a little further the truth, but that is another matter).

And I would agree with you in general that the far left is right on the issues, over and over again. But the far left ain't got no power (thanks to the people.) Now the far left can look to see who has some power that be aligned with, but this means a little compromise. But the liberal moderates are very few and far between, too. So get a little more power, one finds oneself aligning with the moderates, as well. Some more compromise. And even then, not that much power. One could give up and just the conservative moderates align with all the conservatives and basically rule without resistance. Or one can compromise some more and yank some of them into the coalition. And there we find ourselves. This particular view of the dynamics doesn't align with your "they're all corrupt and incompentent cowards" meme so you can't accept it. I understand.

Just as it is hard to deal with the fact that much of the current outrage has to be sustained by the absolute belief the Republicans would have caved in the few weeks that they had to hold out. Remember what a failure the Bush messaging team had when they tried to paint the Democrats as obstructionists when they controlled Congress? Most Americans only look to see who has the majority and don't concern themselves with things like cloture votes.)

And two more things:

You're calling me smug and self-satisfied?

And

Do you ever tire of offering lame, demonstrably illogical and false excuses for the players that keep throwing the game?

What you don't understand is that this isn't a game. Somebody recently told me that. I think it was on this thread.

Peace.

Ahhhhhh......a hiatus.....a

we are stardust — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 19:12:21 +0000

In reply to Wow! DC Democrats Prove Dumber Than Anyone Thought: Republicans Reward Obama And Conservadems By Sinking The Spending Bill

Ahhhhhh......a hiatus.....a break.......a suspension of hostilities.....

You can't get any of those

oleeb — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:24:31 +0000

In reply to Amen, Oleeb. I want what you

You can't get any of those things by passively going along and not objecting to lying, hypocritical, unethical politicians like the DC Corporate Centrist Democrats.

As Jack Nicholson so famously

oleeb — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:23:02 +0000

In reply to "Your leader is so

As Jack Nicholson so famously said:

"You can't handle the truth."

Impressive regurgitation of

oleeb — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:21:56 +0000

In reply to If memory serves me

Impressive regurgitation of the common wisdom. You are amazingly limited both in your understanding of what is going on and in your ability to explain away the open cowardice, corruption and incompetence of the Democrats who have sold your future, your kids' future, and the nation's future down the river. Pitiful how people will make excuses like the ones you use to avoid dealing with reality. Like Obama and the other cowardly Democrats of DC what you would prefer is that everyone just shut up and cheer for the team that's losing the game on the field because they are wearing blue. Well, that works maybe in high school but not in national politics. Do you ever tire of losing? Do you ever tire of offering lame, demonstrably illogical and false excuses for the players that keep throwing the game?

And by the way, the dirty fucking hippies have been right on every major issue both during the Bush years and during the third Bush term presided over by Obama. Perhaps you and the other smug, self satisfied supporters of the ongoing anti-Democratic strategies of the corporate conservadems could get a clue one of these days but that would be wishful thinking.

I wonder why it is that people like you and the other defenders of the corrupt, incompetent liars don't think it matters that ever major campaign promise these guys made has been broken? Do you share the same lack of committment to doing things you say you'll do as these tools? Do you think capitulation is a synonym for compromise? Unashamed and unabashed ignorance and hypocrisy like this amazes me.

In two years, policies like

oleeb — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:14:06 +0000

In reply to I was doing some banking

In two years, policies like the horrendous tax cut deal just passed will have so wrecked the government that it will be impossible to take the sort of action required to put things back on track. We lost the battle against the depression last night thanks to the Democrats.

DD, I think they assume that

oleeb — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:12:32 +0000

In reply to This all reminded me of when

DD, I think they assume that they will be able to go back to blaming the mean old, omnipotent Republicans for their failure to get anything done they have promised to do. It's just standard DC Democratic obfuscation of the truth which is they refuse to fight for any of the things they campaign on.

This all reminded me of when

Richard Day — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 15:35:35 +0000

In reply to Wow! DC Democrats Prove Dumber Than Anyone Thought: Republicans Reward Obama And Conservadems By Sinking The Spending Bill

This all reminded me of when the repubs and the dems went behind closed doors and bailed out the corporate pigs in '08.

The deal was struck fastly and both parties contributed it to it. Within a month or two the big companies were handing out billions in bonuses.

I assume the dems just figure that they will not be able to get anything passed over the next two years.