dagblog - Comments for "Narcissism. Stealing a look into the unconscious."

Your Men's Frisk for Beauty

we are stardust — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 00:22:03 +0000

In reply to Narcissism. Stealing a look into the unconscious.

Your Men's Frisk for Beauty looks interesting, Dennie, and the artwork is nice.

I know you aren't advancing this concept here, but I wanted to say that the prevalent online and MSM opinion that the reason the DSM V might delete narcissism as a personality disorder isn't that there are so many self-interested and self-absorbed people in the country, though there do seem to be. ;o)

It seems to be more a division between clinicians and scientists, and allowing a choice along a continuum of how many and which traits a patient exhibits. Or something. But it's a way more serious mental health issue than most preeners evidence. There are subtypes, and each have theories of possible causes, but lack of early bonding shows up. Accurately diagnosed NPD subjects really do have trouble forming attachments and showing empathy. The ones I know make crap parents, for obvious reasons. Anyway, just wanted to say that to counteract the prevalent crap I'm hearing on teevee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

would the power?tendancies.

Richard Day — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 22:34:42 +0000

In reply to The preceding posts make it

would the power?

tendancies. Hell most of us end up adolescents anyway. ahahah

I sure did!!!

The preceding posts make it

chucktrotter — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:08:36 +0000

In reply to Your essay is interesting and

The preceding posts make it obvious to me that I know nothing about psychology nor philosophy. I DID watch an interview on C-Span (Think it was the "Communicators" series) that specifically dealt with the popularity of Facebook and Twitter. A professor being interviewed emphasized that those who had turned these modes of communicating into an obsession showed powerful inclinations toward deeply narcissistic personalities. The tendency toward the trait was strongest among adolescents but covered the age spectrum.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080922135231.htm

Your essay is interesting and

moat — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 19:19:00 +0000

In reply to Narcissism. Stealing a look into the unconscious.

Your essay is interesting and overturns many accepted narratives about Narcissus. While it is important to see how the story goes beyond the idea of "idealized ego", the way Carey absorbs the discussion of that idealization into a generic goo should also be resisted.

Getting rid of specific personality disorder designations is a claim that they don't represent unique structures but are merely a compilation of symptoms that could easily be combined with a lot of other symptoms. The wording of the DSM places strong emphasis upon not mixing symptoms. Take the following distinction for example:

The relative stability of self-image as well as the relative lack of self destructiveness, impulsivity, and abandonment concerns also help distinguish Narcissistic Personality Disorder from Borderline Personality Disorder. Excessive pride in achievements, a relative lack of emotional display, and disdain for others' sensitivities help distinguish Narcissistic Personality Disorder from Histrionic Personality Disorder.

Carey's definition of the NPD as "a devastatingly vulnerable person, compensating for a deeply imprinted inadequacy with a desperate need for admiration, and a grandiose self-image" is an explanation that dismisses the need for greater specificity.

One connection I see between the psychological and mythological views of the story is the desire for immersion. Moving closer and closer to the reflected image makes it grow larger and more encompassing. The disappointment of contact is not only over the loss of the image but the end of feeling swallowed up by the embrace. It is fitting that Narcissus shares the same root as Narcotic, namely, the Greek verb ναρκάω: to grow stiff or numb. A desire for a certain kind of experience can be expressed as a loss of flexibility.

Interesting on a whole number

Elusive Trope — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 17:06:39 +0000

In reply to Narcissism. Stealing a look into the unconscious.

Interesting on a whole number of levels. One tangent of thought is if the fulfillment of self-love is dependent upon at some level self-knowledge, but if there is also a certain irreduciability of experience, that not only certain facets of the world, but also certain facets of the self, will always remain a mystery to the individual, then at one point does the self-love emerge in spite of the lack of clarity. Does self-love emerge as a product of this dialogue, or is pre-existing, and it is a matter of uncovering it and allowing to unfold.

It was D.K. Suzuki I believe you said that love between two individuals required a constant deflation and inflation of the ego on each of the individuals' part. The problem with many relationships is that they settle on the easier path of one individual always with the inflated ego (I deserve to receive the sacrifices that come from the love of the other) and the other individual with a deflated ego (I must make the sacrifices that come from the love of the other ). Looking at self-love through this particular dynamic, it would posit the question: at what point does self-love interfere with the individual's ability to love others?

Of course, the notion of romantic love is so prevalent in our culture, it is difficult to step outside it to see how this has not always been a part of the human cultural history. What is meant by self-love gets so murky because the understanding of the word "love" itself is murky at best

Another notion that Campbell threw out there was that difference between the pyschotic and the hero of the myths was that hero returned from the journey.

Lately, I have found things keep bringing back to Keats' notion of Negative Capability.

I had not a dispute but a disquisition with Dilke, on various subjects; several things dovetailed in my mind, & at once it struck me, what quality went to form a Man of Achievement especially in literature & which Shakespeare possessed so enormously - I mean Negative Capability, that is when man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts without any irritable reaching after fact & reason - Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half knowledge. This pursued through Volumes would perhaps take us no further than this, that with a great poet the sense of Beauty overcomes every other consideration, or rather obliterates every other consideration.

I would go as far as saying that a responsibility of each of us, as citizens, is to engage in this dialogue with our selves (which goes along with my belief that we all need to be in therapy). I would qualify this, however, that it is important that the community facilitate a successful dialogue by facilitating the Negative Capability in each of us through education and cultural activities. Something I would say ours does not do. In fact, much of what passes for education and cultural activities are actually hostile to this capability.

This is just awesome, thank

Michael Maiello — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 16:14:27 +0000

In reply to Narcissism. Stealing a look into the unconscious.

This is just awesome, thank you, Dennie for a lovely break from politics. I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Stardust Memories -- when his character is asked about critics who have accused him of narcissism he says, "Actually, when it comes to figures in greek mythology, I don't identify with Narcissus." The questioner then asks who he identifies with and Allen quips, "Zeus.