dagblog - Comments for "Robert Gates’ Pentagon Budget-Cut Magic "

In the old days we'd say

Decader — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 23:37:02 +0000

In reply to That was funny, AA! All the

In the old days we'd say Gates was moonlighting, now we'd say he's a sock puppet?

I believe I said

Decader — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 23:33:22 +0000

In reply to This says they're grand, but

I believe I said "altercation", no?

In 2001, if you recall, the Chinese forced down one of our border surveillance planes down onto Hainan, pulled the plane apart and sent it back in tiny boxes, crew fortunately intact.

Again and again there are kerfluffles around S. China Sea with China expansionism, Russia invading Georgia, China military games pretending to attack Taiwan, etc. Part of our effective diplomatic response is the seriousness with which are military options are seen - unlikely full out war but the ability to cause a little mischief that the other side can't do anything about.

This says they're grand, but

we are stardust — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 23:14:29 +0000

In reply to Well part of the issue was

This says they're grand, but seriously: war with China?

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/fighter/f18.html

That was funny, AA! All the

we are stardust — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 23:01:40 +0000

In reply to NYTimes

That was funny, AA! All the author did was rubber-stamp the cuts, and use the exact reasoning Gates gave. Might have talked about closing bogus bases arond the world, or something. Loved the nod to the annual review of troop strength, though. A cynic might guess there won't be many decreases. ;o)

NYTimes

artappraiser — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 22:41:03 +0000

In reply to Robert Gates’ Pentagon Budget-Cut Magic

NYTimes editorial:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/opinion/09sun2.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

Well part of the issue was

Decader — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 19:25:40 +0000

In reply to It was the Generals who said

Well part of the issue was the price of the F-22, part was overoptimism at Lockheed-Martin delivering the F-35 without more and more delays. So the F16 and others are our ancient workhorses, and maybe they're doing the job, but somewho I have trouble believing they don't need some reasonable updated version and soon.

Not necessarily the full bells-and-whistles stealth everywhere that seems to be driving all these costs up. And would I suppose be better if I understood what enhancements had been done to these old lines over the years.

It was the Generals who said

we are stardust — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 18:27:34 +0000

In reply to Actually the delay of the F35

It was the Generals who said no to the F-22's, I believe. Can't say about the delays of the F-35's; maybe the delays are announced that way simply because production's behind schedule, another way to shift budgetary columns. I know there's been lots more emphasis on missle systems and drones, and missiles from aircraft carriers; perhaps those are more desirable now. Or there's another plane we don't know about in production. You could google those defense sites, maybe.

Again, I doubt Gates would delay them on some whim. A quick google query brought up a lot of opinions; one hit was about Israel having ordered 75 of them. Those F-22's are being shopped around the globe.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=why+delay+the+F-35+fighter+planes+production%3F&form=QBRE&qs=n&sk=

I have to add that I do carry within me a bit or more of 'I don't care' about them. So many armaments and weapons and bomb delivery systems, so many wars. We're drowning in them, and the parts that self-destruct when they go Ka-Boom!

Between the lines this also

Decader — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 17:30:45 +0000

In reply to From 1 1/2 years ago in Wired

Between the lines this also *INCREASES* costs for European allies as they pay more for maintaining their aging fleet of F16's.

First delays reported back in 2007:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f-35-jsf-hit-by-serious-design-probl...

Most parts of the JSF program are running about four years behind most of its initial schedule, and the estimated basic cost for one aircraft has surged about 84 percent, to $92 million in 2002 dollars from $50 million.

The Air Force has changed its first-unit combat date to April 2016 from a target of June 2011, and the Navy date also slipped to April 2016 from April 2012.

From 1 1/2 years ago in Wired

Decader — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 17:25:35 +0000

In reply to Actually the delay of the F35

From 1 1/2 years ago in Wired - http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/07/report-two-year-delay-for-joint-... -

The Obama administration’s apparently successful campaign to end production of the F-22 stealth fighter hinged on at least one very big assumption: that the newer F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (pictured) would more than make up for a curtailed Raptor fleet. “It [the F-35] is a versatile aircraft, less than half the total cost of the F-22, and can be produced in quantity with all the advantages produced by economies of scale — some 500 will be bought over the next five years, more than 2,400 over the life of the program,” Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said in a speech in Chicago on July 16.

Problem is, Gates’ assertions might be wrong, if one recent internal Pentagon report holds true. The Joint Estimate Team “determined that the fighter won’t be able to move out of the development phase and into full production until 2016,” CQ’s Josh Rogin noted. The F-35 program office has promised full production in 2014, ramping up to around a jet per day. The delay is due to slower-than-expected progress in flight testing. The test flight goal for the current fiscal year is 317 sorties, Bill Sweetman revealed. “The total so far … is more like 30 flights, with a little more than two months to go.”

The Air Force’s plans for the F-35 don’t allow for much wiggle room. Many F-15s, F-16s and A-10s fly under restrictions due to age-related structural problems. Gates tapped 250 of the oldest jets for retirement, this year — for the first time dropping the Air Force below its requirement for 2,250 fighters. “Every day without a solution, this situation becomes more and more urgent,” Air Guard Lt. Gen. Harry Wyatt told Congress.

It's funny that the Wired article then goes on to say this is bad-mouthing from the F22 supporters. Seems the situation is even worse than charged. The actual situation is that Gates didn't announce a "cut" - he's announcing that the F35 is in serious trouble, delayed yet again for 2 more years and more likely more, with the Marine portion likely to be cancelled completely as a failure, so instead we'll buy a bunch of ancient F/A-18's from Boeing to tide us through while we try to get some real adults in to run a program. That's not the same as "we looked at what fat we could trim and decided on the F35".

It also points to the problem of having more than 2 countries work together to build a complicated device. More political optimism, like full nation-building, rather than serious, cutting-edge technology projects. Case in point: the International Space Station.

Actually the delay of the F35

Desidoormat — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 16:58:03 +0000

In reply to We've noticed that Republican

Actually the delay of the F35 is of some concern to me -

From what I can tell, our previous line of fighters went into production in 1980, 31 years ago, with some improvements since, but still.... if it came out in 1980, design finished long before. (the PC came out1981; the first mass produced CD player was 1985). I worked on fully digitalized aircraft designs shortly after the F18 appearance that that are now considered rather ancient, yet the F/A-18 is still our main fighter?

So we have an F22 design that's fiercely expensive, an F35 design that's a wee bit more straightforward and less fiercely expensive, and then there's the question of developing a new generation long-range bomber. We seem incapable of producing progressive, needed technology in the military.

Not that I support any of our current engagements as anything more than a way to sell replacement armaments and spread bad feelings through the Mideast, but if we do face an altercation with China or Russia in 5 years, it's rather a different thing than fighting a prehistoric clan throwing rocks and placing roadside bombs.