dagblog - Comments for "Pigs At The Trough"

Charlie knows what image he's

Michael Maiello — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:34:51 +0000

Charlie knows what image he's conjuring. My point is really that when we talk about private sector employees we tend to say they "make a living from the work they do" while when we talk about public employees we say they "make a living off of the government." As if one group is more noble or better or even more moral than the other.

But I dont't want to make this about semantics. I think you're absolutely right that people should point to government programs that do work rather than complain out of one side of their mouths while advocating bigger government through the other.

But you know, municipal workers did a really good job getting me to work today, and then to and from my lunch meeting and they're going to take me home soon. I pay for it, but it's a reasonable price, especially compared to what I used to pay to drive around in a previous life.

P.P.S. A just found

artappraiser — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:27:09 +0000

In reply to in the context of a

P.P.S. A just found example:

In another such fortuitous coincidence, one of the top beneficiaries of the new White House rail bailout is GE Transportation — the leading manufacturer of diesel-electric locomotives. President Obama recently named GE CEO Jeffrey Immelt to head the new White House jobs council.

Who said that? A liberal blogger? Nope: the answer.

in the context of a

artappraiser — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 19:15:54 +0000

In reply to Hey Double A, I think more of

in the context of a discussion of municipal default

Yes, and I admit I wasn't, I was just talking about the general attitude that leads to the use of such a term.

It's just gotten to the point where it drives me nuts to see liberal bloggers talk out of both sides of their mouth on the Federal government. The message: "the Federal government sucks and are all elite clueless wankers, and the solution is to make it bigger and more powerful." And then they also wonder why self-identified liberals can't rise above 25% of the population, pondering why more people don't want to identify with liberals. Ever thought of promoting examples (besides SS and Medicare) of how the federal government doesn't suck? Is it they don't have any except from 80 years ago in a different age under different conditions? I.E., anybody up to supporting Obama's fight for high speed rail funds, or do they really just want to continue bitching about a centrist Democrat-in-name-only corporate-toady administration, all wankers?

A suggestion to read Joe Stacks' manifesto, the one he wrote before he flew his plane into the IRS building in Texas. He uses the phrase"pigs at the trough" in it; supposedly was a hero to some tea partier types, but he also sounds in many (many!) of the paragraphs exactly like a ton of liberal blogosphere rants I've read about the government and supposed corporate cronyism. He wasn't mad at teachers or firemen or government pensions, he just thought the federal government was useless. I think that's the most common use of the term "pigs at the trough." I think you in particular would get a lot out of it.

P.S. Your friend Gasparino actually didn't use "pigs." He just said:

the difficulty of telling municipal workers and others living off the public trough that there isn't enough money to give them everything they want, and of making the unpopular choices of cutting budgets drastically or raising taxes.

You are actually doing a bit of making him into a straw man, he wasn't "bashing" those workers or calling them pigs.

Related news regarding

artappraiser — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:42:46 +0000

In reply to Pigs At The Trough

Related news regarding Gasparino's suggestion that neither political side wants to help the states:

Obama to propose relief for states.....

Hey Double A, I think more of

Michael Maiello — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 14:12:19 +0000

In reply to What's the difference between

Hey Double A,

I think more of them are talking about firemen and teachers than you might expect. For one thing, this diss was in the context of a discussion of municipal defaults. So the real issue there are local pensions. Retirement for the federal work force is covered and, well, it's as solvent as anything. It's the local governments that have a problem. But even at the federal level, look what's being attacked -- wages for soldiers. Veterans benefits. The Republicans don't seem to me to be going after ineffective SEC investigators.

I don't want to dismiss what you're saying though. Federal employees bring a lot of this on themselves by drawing the public into Byzantine situations. Government procedures are too often dehumanizing and even degrading to people who find themselves involved in them. So, yes, these people could probably fend off a lot of criticisms by doing their jobs better, particularly when they interact with the public. But I've had dehumanizing and degrading experiences with all manner of private-sector employees as well. And fine, with Mistress Sylvia that was actually good customer service, but with my cell phone company? Not so much.

Very well said, aa.

Verified Atheist — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 13:33:47 +0000

In reply to What's the difference between

Very well said, aa.

What's the difference between

artappraiser — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 09:22:15 +0000

In reply to Pigs At The Trough

What's the difference between the "pigs at the trough" argument and

....technocrats like flies. Highly educated but completely unimaginative people that when you suggest anything that is not within the realm of what they had drummed into their abused little brains, are totally at a loss. Most in Washington fit this description....

Isn't it basically the same complaint about federal bureaucrats' salaries being not just a waste of tax dollars, but a threat to innovative thinking? Isn't it something liberals often complain about? Would you say that overall liberals in the blogosphere are happy with their financial regulatory bodies right now? Their State Dept. employees? Their Mining and Mineral Services? Etc.

We can always avoid this blatant dichotomy in the liberal blogosphere by claiming that "they" are only talking about teachers and fireman. But in reality, that's not always who "they" are talking about. "They" are often complaining about the very same types that many liberals complain about while saying they support government employment. "They" just think it's hopeless and you are better off with smaller federal government and even smaller state government.

Many liberals say they support government employment, but they seem to be very unhappy with the employees doing that work right now. How can one honestly support government employment when one is so unhappy with the federal government (outside of Congress, that is)? Where are we going to get all these clones of Elizabeth Warren and of the few other Federal employees that the liberal blogosphere supports? And what replacement jobs will be given to those that they don't support, all those over-educated uninnovative beltway technocrats (and worse, evil FBI and CIA such) that are supposedly dragging us down?

And why is it bad for Obama to admit that some bureaucracy has gotten out of hand? Many liberals used to support William Proxmire and his Golden Fleece Awards..

Things are so different from

wabby — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 04:01:55 +0000

In reply to Pigs At The Trough

Things are so different from less than one year ago?

Sorry, no, I missed that.

EmmaZahn — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 21:09:13 +0000

In reply to You saw Arianna Huffington's

Sorry, no, I missed that. Niether Arianna nor Huffpo nor the Super Bowl are on my radar nowadays.

But I did google gack because I could only guess what it meant from context.

I guessed you meant something like a reflexive gag since I remembered gack or gak as a messy toy thing that resembled... you know.

Still not sure which could be proof of the declining usefulness of search engines or the disintegation of English into various jargons -- or both.

According to my google, it is very widely used --- probably because of how it sounds.

dagblog - Comments for "Pigs At The Trough"

Charlie knows what image he's

P.P.S. A just found

in the context of a

Related news regarding

Hey Double A, I think more of

Very well said, aa.

What's the difference between

Things are so different from

Sorry, no, I missed that.

Nice catch/comment