dagblog - Comments for "The Corpo-Political Scamming of America"

Certainly there's a class

Flavius — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:34:08 +0000

In reply to Flavius, The corporatists are

Certainly there's a class war, of sorts. . Winning it requires the same .discrimination you admirably show with respect to Tom.

Specifically:

Agree the first and last sentences..

But the corporatists act out of self pure self interest and are essentially indifferent to nearly everything else certainly including whether the American poor or middle class standard of living is up,down or sideways in itself or in relation to the global economy.

The root of the problem is not what corporatists do but why they are able to do it so effectively. Unless that's fixed , if Joe and Jill Corporatist got Stalin's treatment of the Kulaks, they'd be replaced by Eric and Flav who would be free tp do exactly the same. And would. .

The war is not against J and J or E and F.. Or against human nature .. Or even against the Market per se. But against the late, unlamented concept of a self regulated Free Market. Which BTW Adam Smith regarded as a chimera. Google him and you'll read pages of pungent comments about the anti social activities that would be the automatic result of Free Marketeers' self interest. Unless- says Flavius- they are closely regulated.

Flavius, The corporatists are

Wattree — Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:36:29 +0000

In reply to I agree that progress can be

Flavius,

The corporatists are the source of 99% of all of this nation's problems. Every political move they make, they make it with an eye toward lowing the American middle-class standard of living to conform to the global economy. Therefore we cannot resolve the problems in this country without recognizing that the root of those problems is an aggressive assault on the poor and middle class. Thus, by definition, we're engaged in a class war.

I agree that progress can be

Flavius — Sun, 13 Feb 2011 03:01:00 +0000

In reply to Flavius, Your argument is

I agree that progress can be made. Which is why I went door to door talking to voters for the last 4 days before the election . Trying to save the seat of our democratic state senator. He lost by 400 votes out of ninety thousand.. consequently there's a 1 vote Republican majority in the state senate. Which matters.

And agree its vital to educate the sort of voters I talked to.

But I believe that what they should be taught is not that their problem is with a particular class , (."The first thing we'll do, let's kill all the.........".people earning six figures. ) Nor with human nature.Not even with Capitalism per se .

It's with our noxious combination of recklessly under- regulated capitalism and an electoral process which keeps it that way. But fixing which wouldn't require reinventing the wheel.

There's a rich array of sensible practices around the world among which we could cherry-pick::impose a fine on non- voters; prohibit selecting candidates more than 60 days prior to the election;, require TV networks to match their paid adds with equal amount of free time to the competing candiates.

Then let that resulting government deal with our loose- cannon of a market economy.

Flavius, Your argument is

Wattree — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:00:53 +0000

In reply to What's the use? What's the

Flavius,

Your argument is based on extremes. Everything is not black or white. There is a middle ground, and it can be achieved by an enlightened electorate. The key to ridding ourselves of your scenario is to conquer ignorance.

Er, I still believe the links

artappraiser — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:49:26 +0000

In reply to The Colonialization of

Er, I still believe the links you point to are promoting "made in the US" products, and not talking about raw materials.. Here's the picture at the top of the articles:

Here's the caption:

United States Flag for Made in USA Exports - Makaristos (Wikimedia Commons)

-------

I remember reading a report, of how our raw lumber is shipped out, to just beyong the boundary waters, then turned turned into plywood on large ships, burning low grade fuel just 12 miles? offshore to avoid clean air standards.

Well then, maybe you should have used that article to buttress your case, not the ones you did, because I still think the links you gave don't do that at all.

The Colonialization of

Resistance — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:41:03 +0000

In reply to Your links do not support

The Colonialization of America, has returned, We the people are being exploited.

What are these trade partners buying?

The United States was blessed with an abundance of natural resources, and the corporations want them. They are stealing them, not caring for the inhabitant of the land.

The Corporations want the United States to sell them the raw materials at a discount rate, with tax incentives and then import finished products?

We fought a Revolutionary War over this type of practice.

The Corporations, the Conquistadors, could care less about safety nets or workers rights, it's all about exploitation.

The world buys our grain products and we buy their finished goods, thats no bargain unless you're an illegal immigrant working the farm ?

Great business if your a Mega Ag Corporation.

Great place to do business if you want to strip the land of resources and to heck with the indigenous tribes living there.

You want clean water, clean air, move. You want a retirement, safety net or healthcare Tough

Your links do not support

artappraiser — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 16:42:40 +0000

In reply to The left is saddled with too

Your links do not support your argument in the least--quite to the contrary--they are trumpeting increasing sales of American-produced goods to other countries. The 2010 one even argues that

Not only did the United States grow its export sales by a robust 24.5%, that growth is diversified across a high percentage of the countries with which the USA does business.. America’s top trading partners continue to buy more U.S. exports.

and that

American export gains were broad-based. Of the 233 countries where the United States ships its exports, 146 trade partners increased their purchases of U.S. exports.

What's the use? What's the

Flavius — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:30:24 +0000

In reply to The Corpo-Political Scamming of America

What's the use? What's the use?

All this sneaky conniving and slimy contriving!

It's wrong, oh so wrong,

if you just have to pass it along!

Candide

It's not a particular class. It's human nature. We've met the enemy and it is us.

If everyone earning over $250,000 disappeared tomorrow in five years they'd be replaced by others who'd act just the same. Meet the new society, the same as the old socieity.

If Consolidated Greed Inc. would make a buck from NAFTA it'll do whatever it can do to get Joe Congressman to vote for NAFTA . Even if it's bad for 90% of the country(as it is).

People will work as hard as they have to so they can have an enjoyable life.That's called capitalism and it inevitably produces the results you see around you.

And will work as little as they can get away with so that some one else will have an enjoyable life. That's called socialism and it inevitably produces the results you can see around you if you visit,say, Havana.

It's natural to think there's some malevolent class causing all the problems and only replace it and this would be the best of all possible worlds.

Because there is a malevolent class. Trouble is, replacing it will change things for only as long as it takes for the rest of us to fill those $250,000 jobs.

What's to be done, as Lenin said en route to the Finland Station.

That's a whole n'other blog..

I've never agreed with NAFTA,

LisB — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 06:27:00 +0000

In reply to The left is saddled with too

I've never agreed with NAFTA, and while I would love to see us spread love and sunshine and good will and wealth throughout the land, I would rather see us spend our money here at home first, repairing our infrastructure, educating our kids and creating jobs here in the States. So that's malarkey, Resistance.

Wattree, on a personal level, I'll just say this is one of my favorite posts of yours in a while now. You've hit the nail on the head. We're ALL screwed, and the sooner we can get along and talk about this with people who we normally don't agree with politically, the better.

The new political party.

jollyroger — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 04:28:09 +0000

In reply to Who or what is classwarican?

The new political party. Another bumper sticker:

"Class war? You betcha'....also."