dagblog - Comments for "Wisconsin Demonstrates Against Scott Walker's War on Unions"

Came across this: “It is

AmericanDreamer — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 17:38:21 +0000

In reply to Wisconsin Demonstrates Against Scott Walker's War on Unions

Came across this:

“It is essential that there should be organization of labor. This is an era of organization. Capital organizes and Therefore labor must organize.” --Theodore Roosevelt

This website has the recording of a song which can also be downloaded free, with lyrics listed below.

http://soundcloud.com/john-statz/thank-em

Joe works hard from morning to night,

gets home and kisses his beautiful wife.

Watches Fox News, thinks he's got it all figured out,

curses the labor unions, not knowing about...

Thank the unions,

do you like your weekends?

thank the unions,

for minimum wage,

thank organized labor.

Joe don't even know how lucky he is

Joe bitches about his property taxes,

hates the school board and the IRS.

His kids they get a quality, free education,

and the teachers they still get paid shit.

Thank a teacher,

that you can read and write,

thank a teacher,

you can multiply,

thank a teacher,

thank your education,

count your blessings and get organized.

I have serious reservations

AmericanDreamer — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 17:31:57 +0000

In reply to I vehemently disagree that

I have serious reservations about the tactical advisability of the Madison sick-out. There are many calls going out to the people that you "suggest" should be contacted. I don't interpret anyone in this thread as having heads in the sand, saying there is no public support for what Walker is trying to do.

Do you support or oppose Wisconsin public employees having the option of collective representation? If you support that, then you presumably are against Governor Walker's bill because it would eliminate that option.

I would be curious as to what you would recommend as a short pitch to try to persuade members of the public who are on the fence on this. What, if any, information or argument would you, might you, do you, find persuasive?

I get what you're saying

quinn esq — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 15:48:36 +0000

In reply to I vehemently disagree that

I get what you're saying ArtA, but I think it's time to revisit the evidence.

The Democrats have followed the sorts of strategies you're recommending for the last few decades. They have repeatedly compromised as the Right has, year after year, moved further to the Right. In terms of support to and for Unions, there has been little. In terms of taxes and services, there has been one of the world's most rapid shifts toward the rich.

Now, let's look at the facts on the ground that have come out of those decades of following what you recommend. Economic slump. Fiscal collapse. Extraordinary inequality. High un- and under-employment and loss of hope. Almost complete collapse of the unionized base of the American workforce.

Faced with this, and with a new Governor who is really taking some extraordinary FURTHER steps to the Right - like revoking a whole set of collective bargaining rights - your suggestion is? Yeah, to compromise with this guy. You don't propose raising taxes on the rich. You don't show any anger at the removal of people's hard-won rights. And oddly enough, your history lesson from the Depression was that... many people didn't like Unions then either.

I think you're in danger of becoming a rhetoric machine. It's old rhetoric. It has almost no useful grasp of reality left in it. It recommends that people continue a thoroughly failed strategy. And it increasingly looks like it - again - favours the most wealthy, powerful and dangerous elements of society.

Oh. And it was wrong, and dangerous, during the Depression as well.

Time to rethink.

I vehemently disagree that

artappraiser — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 04:05:13 +0000

In reply to The amount of work being

I vehemently disagree that either of those news articles were propaganda, I find it ridculous to call them that, and I think it makes you look like an agitprop spouter to say so. It's useful news that the governor says he is willing to deal and also that Duncan is going to be speaking with him tomorrow. You're sounding like an ayatollah telling people what facts they should pay attention to.

Ever think if you modified that shtick of a romanticized Hollywood version of a Wobblie you might win more friends and influence more people?

You know, your arguments remind me that , even during the Depression, a majority weren't big fans of all union tactics. And strikes by public employees are often notoriously unpopular, so they have to be used with great tactical skill to be successful. I wish those who participated in the no show well, but it remains to be seen if they did the smart thing for their own goals. Seems so far to me that it's causing more to call for their heads.

Meanwhile, still looking at the Journal website, I see the breaking that Milwaukee Area Technical College teachers were busy protecting themselves via other methods, and did., June 2011 through June 2014. Maybe a new governor and statehouse after that. I suppose your going to say that news item is twisted Journal propanganda too?

The amount of work being

SleepinJeezus — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 03:35:57 +0000

In reply to If you do the Google for

The amount of work being committed to this fight is phenomenal - including telephone trees directed at Repub legislators. The action on the square is just a small part of it. My point is that promoting Journal Communications propaganda is not included in the strategic actions being taken. Messaging is critical. And I will explain how some of that is working when I again get back to a computer and off the iPhone. The fight continues on many fronts.

If you do the Google for

artappraiser — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 03:17:32 +0000

In reply to If you do the Google for

If you do the Google for "news," this is what you'll get

Funny thing is that's NOT how I got it. Actually, I went directly to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel site to see what they were doing on the story. The second story in my comment I posted was the main big headline story on their home page. The first story in my comment was not, it was off the main page.but I put it first because I thought it was just as interesting or more interesting, because it implied there might be some administration input on this whole scene tomorrow and that could get real interesting.

And I went there directly because I often do. I was born in Milwaukee and lived there until age 29 excepting for 4 years getting a BA in Madison and I like to check the site once in a while for the Milwaukee news.

What you aren't told is that Journal Communications has a history

I am quite aware of the monopoly Journal Company's history, don't need your agitprop on that, thank you anyways.. Even grew up having to hear bitching about its nefarious power and influence on government affairsin weekly particulars from my father, who spent his career as a city government employee, specifically in the Personnel Dept, where his of his main activity was studying salaries wages and benefits of city government workers, those stats often used in labor contract negotiations.

Which side are YOU on?

I'm on the side of figuring out what's happening in the world.

As far as personal interests in this Wisconsin story are concerned, I'm on the side of figuring out what the heck the state of Wisconsin is going to be doing with all government services and their budiget and the strange things they are thinking about doing with their government in general. As I have a 50-something developmentally-disabled brother living there on SSDI who is also eligible for Medicaid as well as Medicare, and back when the state was in one of its more liberal moods, perhaps other services as he ages. And any day now I will be taking on the responsibility for directing the rest of his life. I am therefore not thrilled that Wisconsin is apparently going through another one of its periodic conservative rightie moods (wich have happened regularly throughout its history.)

But I don't believe in telling myself that what I can see with my own eyes, in this case that Wisconsin is going through another one of its conservative spells, isn't occuring in order to promote an ideological cause on the internet. Mho, just pretending everyone is on your side and hiding what a lot of voters are thinking in Wisconsin isn't really going to help you get anywhere you want to go. You've got to change the minds of some of those voters commenting on that Journal-Sentinel thread, not pretending they are not there and that its just an evil governor forcing it on a public that doesn't want it, in order get "amen brother" from fellow members on dag blog.

One thing I'm sure of is that not everyone in Wisconsin is on the side of the State Journal just as they are not all on the side of the Milwaukee Sentinel Journal. And then there's that awful big number of rural white state districts in Wisconsin whose opinion isn't represented by either but do have a lot of input when they go out and vote in state elections.

Another thing I did think while reading those is that if Wisonsin activisits were smart, they might be taking a clue from that Journal headline which implied that the governor might adjust his stance if other members of his party needed himi to, and instead of continuing a sit-in in Madison, they might be burning up the phone lines getting people in Republican districts to call their representatives and say they are against the governor's proposals.

Keep on rolling Wisconsin,

quinn esq — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 02:57:41 +0000

In reply to If you do the Google for

Keep on rolling Wisconsin, and drive this bastard outta town.

It's no prisoners time, cause if he wins, they're gonna drop the hammer, harder, in a lot of other states.

Fill the house, fill the streets, and stop him before he gets a good hold.

If you do the Google for

SleepinJeezus — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 01:54:40 +0000

In reply to Federal education secretary

If you do the Google for "news," this is what you'll get. What you aren't told is that Journal Communications has a history of union-busting of their own. Nor are you told that they champion this Gov's effort to turn WI into "Walkertucky." They are the propogandist element in Walker's army. One would expect " nothing to see here" reporting from them on this issue, despite what we see on the ground here. It's in their interest to attempt to squelch the enthusiasm of the opposition. As much as credibly possible, They will continue spinning this as a non-story that has little popular support in a tactical effort to demoralize the other side in this fight. I'm certain your assistance in this regard is greatly appreciated. As for me? I'll stick with the good guys in this fight. Which side are YOU on?

Federal education secretary

artappraiser — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 00:31:51 +0000

In reply to Wisconsin Demonstrates Against Scott Walker's War on Unions

Federal education secretary to talk with Gov. Walker

By Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel

Updated: Feb. 16, 2011 5:09 p.m.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116352919.html

Walker says his budget bill could change in response to GOP lawmakers

By Jason Stein and Patrick Marley of the Journal Sentinel

Updated: Feb. 16, 2011 4:17 p.m. |(1365) Comments

Madison - Gov. Scott Walker said Wednesday he was responding to requests from Republican legislative leaders to make at least some changes to a bill that would strip public workers of most of their union rights.

The Legislature's budget committee is expected to meet later this evening to consider changes to the bill...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116301539.html

Suggestion to check out some of the comments on the second article. It's a good mixture. There's definitelya lot of genuine anger there with the teachers and other state workers as well as supporters of them. If any of them are astroturfers, they're sure good at sounding like regular angry people. Gives you an idea of what a state representative might be hearing from constituents, rather than just the opinion of the Capitol protestors.

Brad Lutes, a Wisc teacher,

Donal — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:31:10 +0000

In reply to Tomorrow is supposed to be

Brad Lutes, a Wisc teacher, mentioned that on Dem Now! this morning. He said he was fortunate in that his district supported the unions, but that others might be taking names and issuing threats.