dagblog - Comments for "Unions and Utopians"

promisesSometimes it's extra

jollyroger — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:09:03 +0000

promises

Sometimes it's extra easy to pick out the key word in a paragraph...

(cf, "I am Roger II, pretender to the Visigoth throne") (ed note: It is positively unkind to call the laid-off monarch the pretender....can't we find a less perjorative designation?)

Ah, yes. Who among us does

brewmn — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:37:12 +0000

In reply to But brew, those executives

Ah, yes. Who among us does not love late stage capitalism, US style?

But brew, those executives

Michael Maiello — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 19:10:51 +0000

In reply to Absolutely right. A

But brew, those executives deserved those bonuses. Look how they turned around the company they destroyed!

Absolutely right. A

brewmn — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:59:47 +0000

In reply to When you tell some one that

Absolutely right. A Frontline several years back went into detail on the machinations behind the United Airlines bankruptcy. It was obvious the company's strategy, with the help of the US bankruptcy judge overseeing the proceedings, was to raid the employees pension fund in order to payoff secured creditors. Of course, UA execs the n turned around and gave themselves huge bobuses for this decision. But this was the first time I fully understaood how tenuous those promises of a defined retirement benefit are.

All good points, Emma. At

Michael Maiello — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:27:51 +0000

In reply to When you tell some one that

All good points, Emma. At least in the GM reorganization, the unions who took on the pension costs were compensated with substantial equity in the new (and profitable for the first time in 7 years) company. But that's because Obama got involved. I didn't mean to be flip about private corporations keeping their promises to workers except to say that it whenever this "special class" of workers sees a promise threatened, everybody gets all sanctimonious about the importance of contracts. Union contracts seem a level below and public union contracts one notch further down.

Great closing line Destor.

miguelitoh2o — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:13:36 +0000

In reply to Unions and Utopians

Great closing line Destor.

Okay, smart guy. Some of the

Doctor Cleveland — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:33:44 +0000

In reply to Union thug!

Okay, smart guy. Some of the boys will be taking you behind the builidng to "clap the erasers."

When you tell some one that

EmmaZahn — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:15:00 +0000

In reply to Unions and Utopians

When you tell some one that you're going to pay them less now in exchange for deferred compensation later, which is all a pension really is, then you can't renege on the deferred comp as the bill comes due. Private companies certainly don't.

Private companies certainly don't? You may want to recheck your sources on that statement. Maybe ask the UAW about how GM (and maybe the other automakers as well) coerced them into taking over its unfunded liabilities in that area.

Also maybe check out a short history of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation and how private companies use(d) bankruptucy to offload their long-term liabilities onto the federal government.

One other thing, about using Dick Cheney as an example of private companies fulfilling their deferred compensation promises: unless laws have changed employers are allowed to provide different benefits to different classes of employees. Officers and management often have much better and more secure benefits than the rank and file. Then, too, you are talking about Dick Cheney whose "pension" from Halliburton was likely negotiated as part of his original compensation package. Most people do not have that kind of clout going into a job.

One last thing, whenever you hear noise about problems with Social Security, you may want to check out what the noise is being made about private pension bailouts but be careful. Sometimes it is just traders making noise to churn the bond market.

All chalk, no action.

Donal — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:41:38 +0000

In reply to Union thug!

All chalk, no action.

Union thug!

Michael Maiello — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:31:10 +0000

In reply to I remember that teacher

Union thug!