dagblog - Comments for "Dear Oscar: The Depression Was Not That Pretty"

I'm still a bit perplexed by

Ramona — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:18:33 +0000

In reply to Reading Shakespeare, I seldom

I'm still a bit perplexed by your article, and now your comments. I don't see how you could have expected anything more from "The King's Speech" than was presented. The Logue family shared Logue's diaries and the film was based on them. It was what it was.

The Brits seemed to think it was what it was, as well: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/8223897/The-Kings-Speech-the-real-story.html#disqus_thread

I seldom see any one social

artappraiser — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 00:29:15 +0000

In reply to Reading Shakespeare, I seldom

I seldom see any one social class....here are syphilis jokes, and tapsters

FWIW, believe it or not, those two phrases really help clarify what your complaint about this kind of movie is. But your original essay didn't do that for me, it seemed to me to introduce a lot of unrelated things not making up a coherent argument,. Also the comment here about realism helped; indeed we probably are using it differently, I am talking about the whole Zola, Courbet et al. mid-19th century thing and similar following it. Cheers.

Reading Shakespeare, I seldom

Doctor Cleveland — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 00:01:00 +0000

In reply to I haven't seen the movie but

Reading Shakespeare, I seldom see any one social class,let alone the aristocrats', going unchallenged. There's no Prince Hal without Falstaff, no Hamlet without a gravedigger who's allowed to make fun of him. No single class's viewpoint is the "right" one.

What is the Merry Wives of Windsor but a story of an aristocrat not having his way? Thestereotype was that middle-class women (like the wives) were extremely lustful and would jump at any chance to have sex with, say, a knight. That's what Falstaff is counting on. And if there's no black death in that particular play, there are syphilis jokes, and tapsters, and (heaven hekp us) Ensign Pistol. The King's Speech has no room for Ensign Pistol, or for Falstaff.

Shakespeare's drama really is a mass art, designed for an audience who ranged from poor apprentices to the monarch. It speaks to all of those groups, in different ways, and does not simply represent one group's perspective on the world. He is only a couple centuries ahead of The King's Speech on that scale.

(And yes, he's inaccurate about history. But he sells his bullshit. He tries to persuade.)

As for "realism" ... I think we disagree about what "realism" is.

I haven't seen the movie but

artappraiser — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 22:30:12 +0000

In reply to Dear Oscar: The Depression Was Not That Pretty

I haven't seen the movie but I've read some reviews.

Based on that can I just say: wow!

I am utterly and totally suprised to see the opinions in this article being voiced by a scholar of Shakespeare. (Unless you happen to be a scholar of Shakespeare that dislikes Shakespeare, that is.)

Where the heck is the black plague in Merry Wives of Windsor?! He just pretends it's not there! It wasn't pretty! And how about that inaccurate presentation of Mark Antony's motives?! I am reminded of John Norwich's question I read long ago: where did the history stop and the drama begin?

So from what I read here, basiscally what I get is that you don't really reallly don't like dramaturgy in your movies.

After decades of love of art history and material culture I found that realism is my absolute favorite school of the arts, too. Nothing impresses me like rare accuracy in presenting historical milieus, of actually getting it right, not too shiny as you say. (Personally I'd say David Lean ain't no genius on this front though he might be on many others.) So I'm with ya there.

But myself, I'm okay with drama, I like that too. From what I've read of the movie, it's drama. I think you've heard of the following--"man vs. man, man vs. nature, man vs. himself"--"pick one, write it up, inspire somebody.

And further....from what I've read of the movie, it also is about royals. So that if in fact, everything in it is all shiny silver, new bespoke clothes, meticulous grooming and meticulously clean opulent interiors without fingerprints,, perfectly maintained vehicles, etc. then the material culture presentation is quite accurate. Royal family and the great depression = they kept the servants that ironed their underwear and didn't lay them off.

Let me be clear, I am a firm believer in the idea that it's not possible to have a wrong opinion on anything to do with arts. I'm just surprised at yours here given what background you have mentioned on this site. How you came to associate the above opinions with this movie makes it a must see for me now.

P.S. I'd like to say a word about those old films and photographs of actual real life that supposedly give contemporary people a better idea of "what it was like." What it was like is, among other things, is that their world had color, too, it wasn't all black and white and grey; It was dirty, but not that dirty. And anyone who thinks "candid" photography and film = accuracy should be required to read this.

Sounds like the PR stuff the

EmmaZahn — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 22:09:48 +0000

In reply to Well, to those who enjoyed

Sounds like the PR stuff the Royal Family provides PBS for pledge months. :D

Hahahah, you were reading my

tmccarthy0 — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:38:51 +0000

In reply to It's more a Paul Revere thing

Hahahah, you were reading my mind.. Everything is about chocolate, yes it is.

It's more a Paul Revere thing

Doctor Cleveland — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:21:39 +0000

In reply to Will you ride through the

It's more a Paul Revere thing than a Lady Godiva thing. But I do like chocolate.

Will you ride through the

tmccarthy0 — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 20:34:33 +0000

In reply to (Of course, I have political

Will you ride through the streets nude on your horse. What kind of horse will you ride? Will you grow your hair really, really long? Oh I have so many questions for you!

(Of course, I have political

Doctor Cleveland — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 18:40:11 +0000

In reply to When I first heard about this

(Of course, I have political issues with George III, too. Excuse me while I ride this horse through Middlesex County and make a public disturbance.)

When I first heard about this

Donal — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 17:17:42 +0000

In reply to Dear Oscar: The Depression Was Not That Pretty

When I first heard about this film, my mind turned to The Madness of King George, an excellent film about a king whose entire government was at stake, but which wasn't even nominated as Best Pic. Nigel Hawthorne was nominated but Best Actor went to Tom Hanks as Forrest Gump, and Helen Mirren was nominated for Best Supporting, which went to Dianne Wiest for Bullets over Broadway. Madness did win Best Art Direction, though.