dagblog - Comments for "Derrida's Ghost Goes on a Road Trip with Hansel and Gretel to Madison, WI"

I'm just summarizing the

acanuck — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 07:30:00 +0000

In reply to Disagreement with an opinion

I'm just summarizing the opinion with less verbiage, moat.

Disagreement with an opinion

moat — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:02:59 +0000

In reply to What I've come to suspect,

Disagreement with an opinion is one thing; Ascribing base motivations to someone for having an opinion is another. The latter activity can never advance the discussion of the former.

In tropes World, all pies are

Resistance — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 22:37:29 +0000

In reply to What I've come to suspect,

In tropes World, all pies are alike.

I'd much rather have a Marie Callender pie, or Village Inn pie,,, because of the better ingredients. Micky D's pie is okay for the kids, but cant we all have a piece of the better Pie?

It's not the piece that's as important; its what pie are you slicing from, to serve me; while you cut one for yourself from the best.

The excuse "there wasnt enough of the good pie, so be happy you ungrateful, be glad you got any slice at all"

What I've come to suspect,

acanuck — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 20:30:50 +0000

In reply to Goodness gracious, AT.

What I've come to suspect, Dreamer, is that in Trope's world it's all pie.

Dignity, respect, fair play, democracy -- there's only so much of it to go around, and what someone else gains, Trope loses. And the money is nothing to sneeze at, either.

Goodness gracious, AT.

AmericanDreamer — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 12:06:31 +0000

In reply to If I destroy the oracle at

Goodness gracious, AT. You've outdone yourself with this:

The one thing that comes to mind with Marcuse is that during this economic meltdown, all the talk of class war, it boils down to people wanting more of the pie. Which reinforces the basic notion of capitalism.

Where do you get this stuff? From some poststructuralist, postmodernist, post-deconstructionist, professional navel-gazer who might as well be on some Rove payroll?

Like moat said. This is about so much more than wanting more of the pie. Among other things, it's about dignity. It's about respect, including self-respect. It's about having a voice in what goes on in one's workplace instead of being dictated to unilaterally by people who often don't have relevant information to inform their decisions. It's about notions of fair play, of justice, of equity, of, dare I use the "d" word, democracy. These are symbolic, non-material constructs which are more important than purely material considerations to many on the currently losing end of the class war. It is impossible to understand the labor movement or class warfare without understanding this.

Class struggle is not just

moat — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 03:11:46 +0000

In reply to If I destroy the oracle at

Class struggle is not just about how the pie is sliced up. Certainly the immediate reality tends to make the pie the thing to talk about. But if I am following Blau correctly, there are many unreplayable events that have gotten in the way of getting past discussing the redistribution of wealth. And if Blau isn't saying that, Marx certainly did.

You have piqued my interest in Blau. I will read more.

If I destroy the oracle at

Elusive Trope — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 02:16:54 +0000

In reply to Nicely done, AT.I can follow

If I destroy the oracle at Delphi, may I still twitter the gods?

the best line (question) of the month award nominee.

Cryptic may be the only way to respond, and through that provide some means to some kind of truth.

The one thing that comes to mind with Marcuse is that during this economic meltdown, all the talk of class war, it boils down to people wanting more of the pie. Which reinforces the basic notion of capitalism. To quote Blau:

The trouble with history is that it gets us all wrong. We are born to its double bind. Whatever it is that 's determined, we are what make the momentum, the madness, for the momentum is blooded too. We are suicidal and genocidal. We are randomly destructive. We violate our space by the mere living of it. We are the victimizing eyes unblessed by the victims we have become. The damage we have done to the world is appalling, immeasurable. We are the ruins of time. Is it all determined? Could we have changed it? Absurd question: there is no other question. as we see in the theater. This is a place to be ashamed. We are whart happened. Who can imagine some turning point point in the affairs of men when we might have chosen otherwise? History may occur once or more than once, but it is not exactly replayable; not even plays are. Do we really think the would be in a more satisfactory, less politically corrupt, environmentally hygenic condition if Golgatha had never occurred or Aristotle never lived or no gun went off in Sarajevo? or if nobody discovered E=MC2?

Nicely done, AT.I can follow

moat — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 01:18:15 +0000

In reply to Derrida's Ghost Goes on a Road Trip with Hansel and Gretel to Madison, WI

Nicely done, AT.

I can follow the idea expressed by Blau and Derrida that all "dialectics" that see the future through the narrative of origins can be means for rendering new ways of seeing and doing things incomprehensible or fanciful. What I don't understand is how Derrida gets to have a logic of History after dispensing with this "metaphysical" prejudice.

Much of what has been pointed out above in regards to the power of framing-what is-possible echoes Marcuse in his One-Dimensional Man. The rough sum of the book says: Power structures control talk about alternative ways of living and making things for our lives. Being well ensconced in the dialectic of class struggle, Marcuse was repeating/reframing the Marx idea that new order is brought forward through the way the old order would negate it. Should it be said that, in the matter of proposing a logic of History, Marcuse was following a "metaphysical" prejudice? The phrase "heightens the contradiction" is presumbly the kind of thing Derrida wanted to undermine. In this small space, I am neither arguing for or against Marx. Just proposing that there must me some minimal conditions that need to be met before one goes on like that.

Put another way, if the demand for an either/or is merely an attribute or desiradata of the individual and not a feature of actual public life, then the logic of History must be an illusion, a penumbra, the shadow on the wall confused for an intelligible gesture. But Derrida speaks of a double gesture and a double science.

If I destroy the oracle at Delphi, may I still twitter the gods?

--------------------------

What I heard in the story about Mr. Hahn's horse is that the rider is always terribly behind. Behind in knowing in what direction he is going and fuzzy about where he has been. Behind in knowing why even the most immediate decisions made by him are like the actions of a stranger. I hear Mr. Hahn telling me the rider is supposed to become more involved in what is happening.

--------------------------

I realize the above is short and cryptic but my numerous attempts to qualify it only made it worse.

I was phoned around

AmericanDreamer — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 09:06:40 +0000

In reply to I know all to well the

I was phoned around dinnertime, as I often am, by someone calling for "a generous contribution" from "President Obama and the Democratic party". I know they are calling for money and usually cut them off and say yes or no, depending. This time I listened to the pitch. The caller's script referenced helping to ensure the President's re-election in 2012. The reaction I had to the call was unlike any I've had to anyone calling me for money for the Democrats that I can recall. I simply said I was not prepared to contribute at this time and hung up abruptly. (Having had a blind sales phone call summer job as a high schooler I usually do better at being at least polite to others in a position of doing that thankless job.)

I didn't say any of this to the caller but my thought process was essentially, "Excuse me, but I have not decided whether or not to support the President for the Democratic nomination in 2012 and frankly would be more inclined right now to contribute funds to a challenger whose commitments and values were closer to my own."

What a difference a few weeks make. The events in Madison, more than any so far, have left me with a growing feeling that this President is choosing to make himself a bystander when others of our fellow citizens, who he at one time might have joined, are demonstrating and protesting cheerfully out in the cold in Madison, fully engaged in one among the great struggles of our time.

I felt angry at a President I was able to see for the first time as just a bit smug and maybe too political and expedient by half even for a US President, too content to let other people do the hard work and take the big risks. Understanding full well at one level that he is, of course, and in the end, a politician, I felt more underwhelmed by his performance than ever. My patience for supporting a probably very, very nice but increasingly self-marginalizing person as our President grows thin. And, in line with what others are saying here, a part of me felt like saying to him, if I could, "With respect for your humanity, Mr. President, go get it from your Wall Street contributors--they can spare it a good deal more easily than I can. Please don't be too tough on them--their feelings have been hurt, you know."

He comes off to me as less and less of a peoples' President by the day but as one who serves, wittingly or unwittingly for it hardly matters, as just another suit for our day's unaccountable robber barons. Less and less like the candidate who told us, comfortably and with a smile, that he was just a "mutt". More and more like another entirely ordinary politician, one with the look of an auditioning future or wannabe Wall Street banker who at that point, perhaps, fashions that he could really have an influence on what the President of the United States might do.

So, not to be entirely negative, I will, as I said I would, write soon with what I can find out about groups who are engaged in candidate recruitment for 2012 Congressional races. I doubt this President is going to need my help to win re-election next year. The question is therefore why, given that, I should contribute what I can to him rather than towards other potentially more fruitful efforts. I am a good deal more worried about the future of our country than I am about President Obama's political fortunes at this time. He seems to be holding his own just fine when it comes to securing the latter.

Every spaniel begging for a

Obey — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 06:26:13 +0000

In reply to Is this here some of that

Every spaniel begging for a milkbone IS an angel...