dagblog - Comments for "Michael Moore and the War of the Classes"

I love this video. If I had

Resistance — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:50:49 +0000

In reply to I don't quite agree with the

I love this video. If I had been alive then, I would have loved the man. It's any wonder he won as often as he did.

What strength he displayed, not like the new batch of democrats controlled by money.

I would like to see Sanders

Resistance — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:43:20 +0000

In reply to Bernie Sanders and Rachel

I would like to see Sanders run for President,.

Send a message to Obama, you have not secured your base.

But then again he abandoned his base already.

As fuel prices go higher, the cuts in programs being proposed, it wouldnt take long before the electorate said we want an Independant candidate. A pox on both houses.

But we need to start promoting the alternative NOW. Name recognition being one benefit. maybe with Trumka, and Bernie Sanders at the table, the grass roots effort will already be underway; competing for the same money, Obama is going to seek for his relection .

Should Sanders need to run as a third party candidate because the establishment, centirst pragmatist, DINO's try to shut Sanders out of the primaries, or the National Debates, as the Democrats did to Nader, we will have prempted they're "strategery". (Strategy and treachery combined)

With the advancing of General (Sherman) Sanders and his army of supporters at the gates, Washington the fortress of the status quo, maybe we'll have our generations Magna Carta moment.

And don't overlook just how

SleepinJeezus — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:52:22 +0000

In reply to I don't quite agree with the

And don't overlook just how injurious such a "strategic ignore" approach that denies/covers your own ideology is to that very ideology. For example, if Dennis Kucinich or some such candidate comes along to actually promote himself as a LaborDem/Socialist alternative to the GOP, he is readily marginalized as an "extremist." After all, even the "mainstream" Dems believe that laissez faire capitalism is the ONLY legitimate choice.

THAT'S the cruellest cut of all

Well said,SJ. I think that's

Ramona — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:41:09 +0000

In reply to I don't quite agree with the

Well said,SJ. I think that's what we're trying to do. All of us who cry out against what's been going on. We're fighting back.

I don't quite agree with the

SleepinJeezus — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:36:25 +0000

In reply to Yep. He's an independent.When

I don't quite agree with the "ashamed of their beliefs" assignation. Rather, I think the calculation of the Democratic Party for thirty-plus years is that elections are most easily won if you "strategically ignore" the economic populist arguments and strive to be "The Moderate" candidate. I mean, isn't that what is meant by "post-partisan?" (NOTE: "Post-partisan politics" has never made any real sense to me as a descriptive term. It seems tantamount to something like "vegan carnivores.")

It's really lazy politics, but it has its advantages and - as proven - it can win elections. It involves worrying little about message. You allow the other side to define the message, and then you tailor your positions to be less extreme. We need tax cuts? Well, yes we do, but not quite as deep as you suggest. We need deficit reduction? Well, yes we do. But not as deep as you suggest. We need to shrink government to a size sufficient we can drown it in a bathtub? Well, yes we do. But we gotta still have someone around to turn out the lights and lock up afterwards.

After thirty years of such Dem politicking (or lack thereof, actually), it leads to a Dem President giving the SOTU WTF Address we saw in January in the midst of this bone-crushingly debilitating recession. Keynesian Recovery? Absent. Any recovery assistance on mortgages or unemployment or other transfer payments? Unneeded. After all, says Obama, the economy is back as we can see reflected in the growth of the DIA and the P&L statements of our banks. (Applause) Budget priorities? Deficit reduction, extend Bush tax cuts, and no new taxes.

Obama and the Dems have ceded all the GOP talking points, with intention of winning voters by showing themselves to be the "more reasonable deficit hawks" and the "more responsible friends of Wall Street" and the "less invasive murderers of Big Gummint."

Michael Moore's speech strikes us all with a thrill because we find relevance in its take-no-prisoners economic populist message. We're tired of being beaten down. We're angry. We're scared for the future. And we know there exists a great disparity between us and those who always seem to come out on top in this economy - the banksters, the corporations, the "boss," etc.

In Madison, an approximate 50,000 were on hand to hear Moore's speech, and virtually everyone on hand responded enthusiastically. It was as if they were hearing for the first time that their anger and fears and anxiety were not only shared, but that there was a reason for them to be tearing at them and that a recipe for their cure was available. "We're not broke!" yelled Moore while insisting that we take back what has been stolen from us, including our dignity.

Yet, when these same people went to the polls in November - as in too many Novembers before that - they were offered no such hope or alternative. Instead, they were told by everyone on the ballot that the GOP's direction for this country and this economy is really the only choice, and were invited to vote whether they wished to go "all-in" or tinker some at the margins; to abandon hope altogether and accept their place as diminished participants in this economy or continue trying to forestall the inevitable decline.

In Wisconsin, last November, they decided to go "all-in" and we got Walker for Governor. For many voters, I'm sure it's because they could see that all the tinkering in the world these last thirty years wasn't helping them anyway.

Maybe it's time for the Dems to rethink their strategy going forward. I'd suggest they take a cue from Michael Moore and perhaps extend themselves into what might be called "POST-post-partisan politicking" and go right for the throat of the bastards who've got it coming. God knows, it might at last keep them busy enough to get their boot off our necks as they now try to finish us off altogether with this coordinated attack on worker's rights.

Let's fight back, shall we? As a political Party. As Democrats, even! I know! What a concept, eh? But it does lie within our very best traditions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjSTQwamo8M

Bernie Sanders and Rachel

Ramona — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:06:30 +0000

In reply to Senator Sanders and Michael

Bernie Sanders and Rachel Maddow are on our side. No question about it. Our goal is to get people outside of the choir to listen to them--and others like them. That's the goal.

I only met MM once, briefly,

Ramona — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:53:00 +0000

In reply to General or leader don't quite

I only met MM once, briefly, when he was still doing the MIchigan Voice (started as the Flint Voice) and just before he went to Mother Jones. Yes, he already had a presence. I knew friends of his who told me after the MJ debacle that they had begged him not to do it. He thought they were jealous and there was a rift that I'm not sure ever was resolved.

Do you remember Ben Hamper? He was MMs best friend and Mike convinced him that he could write a book about his adventures on the assembly line. "Rivethead" was published, thanks to MM, and it was angry and goofy and hilarious, but a gift that kept on giving to the people who now thought they had proof that unions coddled and protected drunks and cokeheads and all-around troublemakers.

In the end Hamper couldn't take the attention--he was no Michael Moore. He had a breakdown (not his first, and no secret, he wrote about it) and disappeared for a while, but to my relief surfaced again to write a foreward for one of Mike's books. I had this saved and it's not dated so I don't know how old it is, but it's way more fun to read than all the doom and gloom these days:

http://hamper.michaelmoore.com/lovely_serpent.html

And here is Michael Moore's foreward to Ben's book. If anybody ever questions Michael Moore's authenticity, this ought to put a cap on that: http://hamper.michaelmoore.com/chapter1.html

Yep. He's an independent.When

kgb999 — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 07:54:17 +0000

In reply to Senator Sanders and Michael

Yep. He's an independent.

When you see the Democratic party officially start asserting our interests like *that* ... you'll see me stop giving our Democratic loyalist friends a hard time.

Also, though there really is little chance he'd challenge Obama ... Schweitzer is really good. He brings it like Sanders ... he's not those who act like they should be ashamed of their beliefs; he nails people with them.

Senator Sanders and Michael

Resistance — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 05:18:11 +0000

In reply to Michael Moore and the War of the Classes

Senator Sanders and Michael Moore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5rcnAWaC64&feature=related

BERNIE SANDERS

He has the passion, he has the fire., the conviction to take on the corporations

He knows what he’s taking about.

Thom Hartmann: Senator Bernie Sanders on the Budget and the WI Protest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AZJ_2C3BtI&feature=related

@6:20 Trade policies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l90ADkrY-mQ

Saying he was prepared to speak "as long as possible" against a tax deal between the White House and congressional Republicans,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6pa-QdL4Wo

Bernie Sanders end of 8 1/2 hour speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnc88gFBUZM&feature=related

@ 2;34

"wait a second... are you nuts? do u really think that millionaires and billionaires need a huge tax break at a time when this country has a 13.7 trillion dollar national debt? WHAT. ARE. YOU. SMOKING??"

Rachel Maddow - GOING OFFENSE- SEN BERNIE SANDERS.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t0WbaUcmwQ&feature=related

@1:25 @6:52 Rachel asks about Obama, Sanders knocks it out of the park

General or leader don't quite

wabby — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 04:41:38 +0000

In reply to Michael Moore and the War of the Classes

General or leader don't quite match up when describing MM, at least not for me. Messenger fits better, since quite often he gets threats of violence as in "kill the....." He is very good at messaging.

Growing up in and around Flint, MI as I did, I've been aware of MM since his Flint Voice days and in fact, I would often see him as he scurried from his car to his magazine headquarters. It was located in a 1 1/2 story house that had been converted for business. I grew up in this neighborhood, in a house just a few streets away.

Well, ha! That 1 1/2 story house is still there! And it's still a lawyer's office. Google maps R kewl!

Anyhoo, I remember driving somewhere with my dad, turning the corner where this house is, and catching sight of MM. My dad says to me, "Keep your eye on that guy. He's gonna do somethin',"

"Like what?" I asked.

"I don't know. Somethin'. Just keep your eye on him."

hahahaha. That was back in the mid 70's sometime. To this day, I don't know if my dad meant this in a good way or not and it's too late now to ask him.

Still, I don't think that "somethin'" MM is going to do is being a General. Messenger. PR man. That fits better.

But, what do I know fer shure? Nothing anymore.