dagblog - Comments for "Arab Spring is 1989? Whose 1989?"

Do you notice we both forgot

cmaukonen — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:44:32 +0000

In reply to I agree on JFK... I think I

Do you notice we both forgot Reagan completely?

I for one have been trying to forget Reagan for a very long time.

I confess I didn't get the

we are stardust — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:51:21 +0000

In reply to Arab Spring is 1989? Whose 1989?

I confess I didn't get the gist of this entire thread, comments included. But when I read yesterday the comments denying that the US is an Empire, I was simply dumbfounded. Wow.

Just sweeping up the store

David Seaton — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:48:13 +0000

In reply to Arab Spring is 1989? Whose 1989?

Just sweeping up the store here.

When is an empire not an empire? When the world is divided into military areas and ringed with hundreds of bases and all sea routes are controlled by its navy is when.

Sample Middle Eastern dialog:

Joe Biden: Mubarak is not a dictator
Obama: Mubarak must go
Mubarak: Arrrgh
Obama: Qaddafi must go.
Qaddafi: That's not what your momma told me.

As to the Soviet Union: of course there are many differences, but what is interesting are the similarities... the imperial self-interest solemnly shrouded in a universalist ideology which gives propaganda cover with which to sanctimoniously violate other nation's sovereignty... just to begin with.

As to Israel... I wonder what they are going to do... I imagine they are wondering too.

All for now, got to go to work.

Actually, bumbling brutality

David Seaton — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:47:24 +0000

In reply to The funny thing is a lot of

Actually, bumbling brutality is a prime characteristic of a decadent empire.

I agree on JFK... I think I

David Seaton — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 06:33:49 +0000

In reply to Thanks for being explicit.

I agree on JFK... I think I would prefer health care to war, but Obama seems to be flubbing both.

Nixon was so deeply flawed as a human being, but he did open to China, which is probably the most important thing to happen in our era.

Do you notice we both forgot Reagan completely?

David: For the record, I

Bruce Levine — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 23:39:00 +0000

In reply to It just seems that anybody

David:

For the record, I didn't mention Israel, you did! And from what I know about the Jewish People in the aggregate (and my hunch is that Israeli Jews are the same) in the end we depend on nobody but ourselves. That's another story for another day, but it's something that a smart guy like you who spends so much time in this area should work hard to understand. As Frank Zappa once said, that is the crux of the biscuit.

Bruce

I really doubt if rage occurs

artappraiser — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 23:04:55 +0000

In reply to There has been talk of a Day

I really doubt if rage occurs in mass quantities there that it will be the same kind of rage as elsewhere and it's not just because of bribery of the masses. The simplified version of the story: that country was founded on a devil's pact between Wahabbi clerics and the royal family, where the Wahabbis would do the sociological setup. What they ended up with is a populace that is largely much more conservative than the ruling royal family, i.e., it's the royals that keep trying to push modernization--more modern education, women driving, whatever--and the majority and the clerics that kick and scream about it. They'd like to be where the UAE is, but that devil's pact they made to educate the populace as fundamentalists has kept them from doing it. Here's an example in the recent news, my bold:

Saudi prince questions ban on women driving
Reuters Africa - Ulf Laessing - March 9, 2011

RIYADH (Reuters) - A senior Saudi prince questioned the need for a ban on women driving on Wednesday and said lifting it would be a quick first step to reduce the Islamic kingdom's dependence on millions of foreign workers....

I've seen many royals subtly trying to push allowing women to drive for years, they just can't seem to affect it, the majority don't want that change. Not sayin' they are that competent at handling what they got, they aren't. It's just a very unusual situation compared to the rest of the Arab world.

The U.S. buys products and

Michael Wolraich — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 22:34:00 +0000

In reply to Genghis,Let's examine the

The U.S. buys products and raw materials from pretty much every country in the world except North Korea, Iran, and Cuba, all of whom would happily sell us their stuff if we didn't have laws against it. We don't need any stinking empires to buy stuff. What ensures our access to Saudi oil is what has always ensured our access to Saudi oil--money.

Some people think money isn't enough. They spin scenarios in which some new hostile Islamic government, in Saudi Arabia say, refuses to sell us oil, just as Cold Warriors spun out scenarios about the whole world falling like dominoes into the Soviet Empire.

But these are scare stories designed to justify the country's extraordinary expenditures to maintain American "influence." American-backed governments rise and fall all the time with much hand-wringing but scarcely a ripple in the course of history.

And you, David, are an obsessive hand-wringer. Of course anything can happen. The U.S. could collapse tomorrow. Or the sun could explode. But just because anything can happen, does not mean that we should believe your incessant evidence-deprived predictions about what will happen.

Thanks for being explicit.

Flavius — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 22:24:00 +0000

In reply to Eisenhower was better than

Thanks for being explicit. Just to restate the question:

What president of the last 50 years or so do you prefer to have the job instead of him?

I grant Eisenhower was immensely better qualified and his policies did relatively litle harm.

Comparing Obama to Bush I their signature achievements, respectively were the ACA and Stimulus vs Desert Storm so it comes down to whether one prefers health care to an intelligently managed war.

Unlike you I would not prefer the JFK - who brought us Vietnam and lord knows not W whose gifts were Shock& Awe, Gitmo and the unforgivable fiscal policy which made the Stimulus necessary

As for Nixon , be my guest. Not my choice for any position other than inmate.

Actually Ray Kurzweil

Donal — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 21:27:16 +0000

In reply to Genghis,Let's examine the

Actually Ray Kurzweil correctly predicted the collapse of the USSR as well.

To me, the Former Soviet Union (FSU) exerted iron control of its vassal states militarily, while the US used a combination of financial aid/economic leverage and military/espionage influence to keep "friendly" states in line.

China seems to use financial aid/economic leverage in places like Africa, but they do get rough when dealing with close neighbors that they regard as rightfully Chinese.