dagblog - Comments for "Libya Operation "Odyssey Dawn" news & analysis"

Fair enough.Thanks for making

Flavius — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:52:27 +0000

In reply to Of course I would expect to

Fair enough.Thanks for making the effort to reply.

I support what Obama did but swing from a shamefully adolescent satisfaction that our side is winning , to remembering that our side is killing real human being on the other side.

I'm sufficiently blood thirsty to know I'd be pleased that Qaddafi was killed. But it's not hundreds or thousands versions of Qaddafi who've been killed so far; it's been human beings, many of them mercenaries working at the only job with which they can support a wife and children.

Would those same soldiers have raped and killed if they'd occupied Benghazi?. Some of them- that's what happens when armies fight their way into a town.(When Singapore surrendered the Japanese agreed the occupying force should be was composed of fresh arrivals, not ones who'd fought their way there) .

But , when I am not in that unappealing state of pleasure in our win , I realize that many of the occupiers would have behaved , even have tried to reduce the violence, and among the ones who didn't there'd be degrees of violence.

I never reach the point of even considering "oil" because I don't get beyond this internal conflict about the need to kill in order to reduce the killing- I hope.. .

Of course I would expect to

A Guy Called LULU — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 04:46:06 +0000

In reply to '. Why is that moral outrage

Of course I would expect to have been overjoyed by any relief from wherever it came if it saved my family. That is because I am a human being putting myself in the place of another scared shitless human being, not because I am a "right thinking American" that knows what is best for other people to do in the world .

I suppose we could go anywhere from here. maybe I would be overjoyed that my family was saved but recognize that the saving was just incidental to other motives on the side of the saviors and could have gone any other way and they wouldn't have given a flying fuck. Not really, because saving me wasn't really their first concern anyway.. I think I might have recognized that.

Look. I am really conflicted as to what to wish for in this case. It looks like a place where we might stop some very significant death and destruction. For a little while. In this case I don't know what I would have decided if I had been in the position of deciding. That hasn't been my situation for quite a few of our wars. I have been confident in what I thought our country should not do most of the time. I have commented almost zero about Libya because of my lack of conviction in this particular case. But, I absolutely do not want to support bombing people on any side based on bullshit concocted reasons fed to me just to so I would buy into a short term solution that might keep us on the same path for a little longer. I am not a pacifist even if my first reflex is to be anti-war. I think we are on a bad path so I think that the sooner we change course the better. I am not trying to say that there is an obvious good or pragmatic course to take but I am thoroughly convinced that we, as a country have taken some that could be seen as obviously bad paths at the time the decision was made to take them. The longer that we stay on what I think is the wrong course the more pissed off comments I will throw out into the cosmos.

Probably zero directly. But

Flavius — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 03:38:04 +0000

In reply to What are the odds that the

Probably zero directly. But indirectly the fact that the select few have gotten their claws on the LOC gives them some extra motivation (nah,they've got motivation enough trying to stay alive) extra bargaining chips to use to buy the allegiance of some of Qadaffi's less devoted followers.

'. Why is that moral outrage

Flavius — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 03:13:45 +0000

In reply to Could you consider that some

'. Why is that moral outrage so tiresome for you? Why, just because you see the "real" reason [a morally outrageous one, IMO] that it is "all about oil" are you only judgmental about the people who are pissed that it is "all about oil"? Or do you think it is okay to go to war for oil while not making an honest effort to position ourselves so that we do not feel the need and the justification to kill for it?

Your moral outrage does you credit. But do you agree that if you were living in Benghazi ten days ago ,terrified that your wife would be repeatedly raped and your children killed you would have been overjoyed when the US and French planes and missiles saved you ?

I'm not suggesting that that is the end of the discussion. Just trying to see whether you feel the way I do on this point.

Yes, money is very hard to

EmmaZahn — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 23:56:39 +0000

In reply to When I spoke of coins I meant

Yes, money is very hard to wrap one's head around but in my mind you defined it very well: the perception of value that people give it. Money can be gold or beads or paper or giant stones even distilled corn as long as those things are accepted as either a medium of exchange; a store of value or a unit of account.

When I spoke of coins I meant

A Guy Called LULU — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 23:40:57 +0000

In reply to Neither the gold nor the

When I spoke of coins I meant gold and silver coins sold at a very high premium over the bullion value for hoarding and/or investment rather than new coins minted for circulation.

Most of gold's value, other than its limited supply is people's perception of its value. A thing is actually worth what you can sell it for.

I don't agree with your last sentence because I don't know of any vital need for gold so having 99% hid under peoples beds won't cause any crisis. I do believe that peoples fear "that something will be done", like confiscation, is the selling point for coins. Silver, on the other hand has many industrial uses and either more is mined or the supply diminishes even without anyone hoarding.

Money is a tough concept for me to get a handle on but if gold and paper money are only symbols of money, what actually is money? I do know that ultimately you cannot eat either one of them.

Neither the gold nor the

EmmaZahn — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 22:50:31 +0000

In reply to I assume that you use the

Neither the gold nor the paper are truly money. They are only symbols representing money.

AFAIK, no one is advocating a return to coins along with a return to a gold standard. Most gold will be held in vaults and paper will be printed with the notation gold certificate to use as a medium of exchange. Very few people will even notice the difference because the money of choice nowadays is plastic with a magnetic strip on the back that links back to a bank account.

The perceived advantage of gold to paper is its limited supply but that is also its own chief disadvantage. Eventually gold hoarders will manage to draw enough actual gold or gold certirficates out of circulation to precipitate a 'crisis' and something will be done.

I assume that you use the

A Guy Called LULU — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 21:56:02 +0000

In reply to That's my point -- the

I assume that you use the word "myth" to mean an accepted story passed along by the culture rather than the with the incorrect definition of "false belief". A myth can be true. The myth [story] of golds value against paper currncy has been demonstrated too many times to disregard, IMO.

I believe that every person investing is speculating. If you are thinking of gold and silver merchants stoking fear as "preying" , and some do, I would agree, but in that case the buyer who is scared can still buy at a world commodity price as long as he picks an honest dealer and does not fall for crap hype about coins.

That's my point -- the

EmmaZahn — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 21:04:32 +0000

In reply to Why else would Gaddafi have

That's my point -- the belief, the myth that gold is special is what drove the price up. Well, that and speculators preying on those who so believe.

I really doubt Gaddafi has

EmmaZahn — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 21:02:46 +0000

In reply to Thanks. The oil thing may be

I really doubt Gaddafi has very much of that gold in pot(s) close to hand. More likely it is in vaults around the globe in safekeeping with gold dealers so transfers would be in some form of paper or electronic medium -- just like regular money. I do not know but would guess that there is a network of fellow thugs Gaddafi can deal with and through who still believe there is something special about gold or gold certificates and belief is really all it takes to make something a medium of exchange.