dagblog - Comments for "Reframing the Deficit Debate"

How on earth is what I said

EmmaZahn — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 00:14:25 +0000

In reply to And such arguments continue

How on earth is what I said using GOP framing? I simply want to put the deficit in a frame that people immediately understand so they can see how the GOP talking points are misleading there.

I really doubt anyone who pays taxes opposes tax reform but I really doubt you will ever convince most that progressive taxes are fair though I do think it is possible to convince many that they are just or necessary.

And such arguments continue

SleepinJeezus — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 00:05:03 +0000

In reply to All good points but would it

And such arguments continue the debate within the framing provided by the GOP and the Fat Bastards whom they support.

I believe Coates larger argument (and certainly mine!) is to tell them to take all their talk about budget cuts being "Job #1!" in this time of jobless recovery/intense recession and blow it out their ass.

We need to get away from this trickle-down madness and redefine the debate altogether. Or, we can simply surrender to the notion that we are all put upon this earth to serve the bottom line of corporations like GE (and its multi-million dollar CEO and Obama-advisor Jeffrey Immelt), who earn obscene profits, pay NO taxes, and are nevertheless ENTITLED to billions of dollars in tax credits.

All good points but would it

EmmaZahn — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 16:28:45 +0000

In reply to Reframing the Deficit Debate

All good points but would it not be simpler to point out that:

1 - Current deficit of $14T sounds high but matches

2 - Current GDP as well as currend GNP both around $14T

Just used one of the online mortgage calculators to see what current loan to earnings ratio might be. The one I used returned a mortgage that was 4.5 times earnings

Using this sort of benchmark which is familiar to many people could put the deficit in better perspective.

True that government debt and personal debt are not the same thing but aren't people more likely to trust the government to pay back a loan than another person?

The whole thing is nothing

Tommy Holmes — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:54:54 +0000

In reply to Reframing the Deficit Debate

The whole thing is nothing but a dog and pony show for the American people. The path we are following has been planned for quite some time. There is no debate. There is only the agenda of the rich which is being executed beautifully. To my way of thinking here's how it's being done.

1. Create the housing bubble.

2. Pop the bubble by deregulation which enabled the creation of the Credit Default Swaps

3. Create the illusion of a fiscal meltdown if we don't shore up the banks, and major corperations.

4. Create a huge deficit with the bailouts.

5. Use deficit as justification to dismantle the public sector and reform (remove) entitlements.

6. Give public lip service as to how concerned our leadership is.

This is the planned destruction of the middle class. Now that the solidarity after World War II has faded from memory, things are reverting back to the way it's always been; haves and have nots. Yes things are going according to plan. Their plan. The king and his court don't like compition, so they just lop off the head of whatever threatens their ivory towers. With technology, hand in hand with power and greed, how can they fail. Using free trade as a prime tool, (which by the way is nothing less than modern day slavery) they can cut the American people out of the mix for jobs, and gain complete control of markets. This gaining control of world markets is the prize, and seeing as how America has always worshiped it's corperations ove it's people, are you not surprised as to the direction of things ? Yes there is no real debate about anything, only a dog and pony show to give us the feeling that our leaders care for the people. The only realility is that the plan is working beautifully. Don't you think it's about time the American people come up with a plan of their own ? Don't you think it's about time we WALK LIKE AN EGYPTIAN !!

It flows better with at least

kgb999 — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:20:25 +0000

In reply to Give the bully pulpit to

It flows better with at least the opening few paragraphs included.

Deficit Reduction Requires Shared Sacrifice
The rich are getting richer. The middle class and poor are getting poorer. What is the Republican solution to the deficit crisis? More tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires. Savage cuts in programs that are desperately needed by working families.

There is another approach, which is why I've just introduced legislation imposing a surtax on those households earning a million dollars or more and the elimination of tax loopholes which the big oil companies take advantage of.

Everyone agrees that this country has a major deficit crisis, but few discuss how we got there. When George W. Bush inherited the White House from Bill Clinton we had a significant surplus. Now we have a $1.5 trillion deficit. How did that happen?

Give the bully pulpit to

Resistance — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:11:34 +0000

In reply to Reframing the Deficit Debate

Give the bully pulpit to Bernie Sanders?

[4] Bernie Sanders, “Deficit Reduction Requires Shared Sacrifice,”,

AmericanDreamer, I don't

coatesd — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:21:27 +0000

In reply to David, which do you consider

AmericanDreamer, I don't object to the banner, though of course I didn't write it. For me, the terms 'progressive' and 'left' are largely interchangable. As far as I can tell, progressive/left people often come with different labels and are ocasionally uncomfortable with each other, but invariably they also come with a broadly shared value system and with very similar immediate and long term goals. It is the Right in this country that now is both monolithic and appalling - harsh, inequalitarian, full of self-confidence and blind dogma, and amazingly indifferent to the sufferings brought by poverty and low wages. Down the years, part of the weakness of the Left globally has been its internal divisions. These are divisions which we cannot afford now. Every progressive vouce in this country needs to speak as one - rebuting this new, arrogant, and profoundly ignorant conservatism - because if we don't, the conservatives will win the key elections: and then we will all - progressives and leftwingers alike - be in a deep deep mess.

David, which do you consider

AmericanDreamer — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 00:32:26 +0000

In reply to Thank you! The text has been

David, which do you consider a more accurate description of your politics--"left" or "progressive"? I note you used the word "progressive" in your piece. I raise the question because the current banner reads "The Left Must Reframe the Deficit Debate". Based on what I know of your politics I had thought that "Progressives Must Reframe the Deficit Debate" might be more accurate. Or maybe "Progressives and Middle Class Advocates Must Reframe the Deficit Debate." But, I'm not sure. So I ask.

Message is everything, at

SleepinJeezus — Thu, 24 Mar 2011 21:41:43 +0000

In reply to Reframing the Deficit Debate

Message is everything, at least so in politics. For thirty years, we have been involved in the message of "Reaganomics" - trickle-down, supply side economics to the exclusion of virtually anything else. And we've seen its ultimate consequence as we confront this "jobless recovery" primarily caused by the collapse of our poorly-regulated financial markets

The Dems offered a feint toward Keynesian remedies at the start of this recession, but quickly allowed "concern over our deficit" to trump everything as our top priority. And we've seen the extremists in the Repub camp use this as an excuse to bludgeon the middle class into surrender, defeat, and its ultimate annihilation.

This is Class War, as you so aptly imply in your post. The other side is engaged in a take-no-prisoners assault on the middle class, and would take for themselves every bit of profit and wealth from our common enterprise.

And the response from our supposed champions in the WH and Congress? Negotiate the terms of our surrender in their continued "discussions" about just how deeply we will allow the initial round of cuts in our discretionary budget to go, while conceding tax cuts for the wealthy.

You are quite right, David, that we need to instead adopt economic populism as our battle cry in response to this assault. We need to stand tall against the Fat Bastards and tell them "No more! Reaganomics is a failed experiment, and we're not going down that rathole anymore." We need to rigorously adopt your three points outlined here as our talking points going forward, and stick them in the neck of the bloated asshats that would steal everything - including our dignity - and claim it for their own.

Great post, as always. Thanks for this.

Excellent discussion!

Richard Day — Thu, 24 Mar 2011 19:10:15 +0000

In reply to Reframing the Deficit Debate

Excellent discussion!