dagblog - Comments for "OH WELL, I'LL START IT"

I don't actually know what

Flavius — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:50:30 +0000

I don't actually know what was intended,. Just guessing the army was concerned about officers torn between alternatives who as a result do nothing.

I assume the "do

Desider — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:02:02 +0000

In reply to In Officer Candidate School

I assume the "do something" included "with a plan, even if it's a poor plan". Even if the plan's "Hail Mary Full of Grace", at least you'll have an idea why you succeeded or failed.

In Officer Candidate School

Flavius — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:05:00 +0000

In reply to Gaddafi will watch CNN and

In Officer Candidate School they'd shout at you/me:

"Do something even if it's wrong".

But another view is Gilbert& Sullivan's

The House of Lords,Throughout the War . Did nothing in part i cu lar, And did it very well.

The only rule is, there is no rule.

Gaddafi will watch CNN and

Desider — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:27:06 +0000

In reply to Prashad said : Maybe

Gaddafi will watch CNN and exploit whatever limits there are to the allied/UN resolution, etc.

The wishful thinking that bombing will bring regime change is just wishful.

Even to stop civilian atrocities is questionable.

That's why I found all the formulations for intervention rather weak. We've seen this many times before, such as when Milosevic responded to bombings by sending Albanian civilians packing for the borders. "Oh no, we didn't expect him to do that". Well do some expecting before you bomb then.

Prashad said : Maybe

artappraiser — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 02:43:24 +0000

In reply to Thanks. I've watched

Prashad said : Maybe yes,maybe no.Perhaps the occupiers would have behaved.

It's interesting, I get the sense from reading the more "breaking" news that we may be about to see some proof of that one way or another.

Here's rebels in Misrata telling AFP that they fear the coalition won't hit tanks already in Misrata, because of the possibility of civilian casualties, and that the Gaddafi tanks are indiscriminately shelling inside the city. Here's a CNN "witness" report of "carnage" in Misrata from this morning and that the coalition is holding back from striking tanks within the city:

Libyan government tanks were shelling civilian areas in Misrata Tuesday and government forces were using heavy artillery as well, bringing "absolute and utter carnage" to the city, a witness told CNN. Government forces were also evicting thousands of residents and looting their homes, according to the source with the Libyan opposition. Rebels were using schools and mosques to accommodate the evicted, he said. Things are getting so much worse" in the city, he said.

Coalition planes circled overhead but did not strike the tanks, he said. In an interview with CNN, he pleaded for coalition forces to take action and stop the government troops.

On CNN TV just a while ago, they showed a video purported to be of tanks moving in Misrata.

Here's what the coalition is proud to admit they are doing as regards Misrata: hitting an ammo dump outside Misrata and firing on Gaddafi ships on the water near Misrata.

Now the Misrata rebel reports to media might be an organized propaganda campaign to try to press the coalition to do more, but I don't see any agenda possible other than that, as It would be better for them for morale purposes to say things are going swimmingly rather than expressing fears.

Seems like Gaddafi plans to continue to fight back in civilian areas, civilians included, precisely because he sess the coalition won't go there and that whatever heavy armor he already has within populated areas is safe? Some Tripoli reports seem to suggest the same problem is going to rear its head there.

Thanks, I read the transcript

artappraiser — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 02:40:26 +0000

In reply to AA, Flavius, Ilks and others:

Thanks, I read the transcript they have available now there.

Thanks. I've watched

Flavius — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 01:41:00 +0000

In reply to AA, Flavius, Ilks and others:

Thanks. I've watched it.

Naturally since in general I agreed with Juan's conclusions it's unable for me to be objective. which certainly contributes to my preferring Juan's position on one of the two key exchanges..

Amy , in effect , asked them whether Obama really had to act a week ago to forestall a massacre in Benghazi.

Prashad said : Maybe yes,maybe no.Perhaps the occupiers would have behaved.

But then switched to his regret the Egyptian's hadn't provided an escape route for the rebels. I won't unfairly turn his humanitarian suggestion against him.Scheduling life boat drill doesn't mean you're fixing to tangle with an ice berg..

But perhaps it's legitimate to suggest that while he felt there was a good chance of a benevolent occupation it made sense to have an escape route.

Juan said : Yes.

I prefer that answer.

The other key exchange was whether the US involvement was benevolent or self serving.I'd score that a draw.,Or maybe a 33 inning endurence test between the Pawsox and their minor league opponent. Great lineups. Wade Boggs for Pawtucket, Cal Ripken, Jr for the other guys.Wonder if they both played 33 innings..I'll bet Ripken did.

AA, Flavius, Ilks and others:

we are stardust — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:42:46 +0000

In reply to OH WELL, I'LL START IT

AA, Flavius, Ilks and others: DemocracyNow! has a debate up on Libya between Juan Cole and Vijat Prashad, chair of South Asian History and professor of international studies at Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut.

Don't have time to se if it's on Youtube yet, but here at is at DN!.

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/29/a_debate_on_us_military_intervention

Thanks all of you for

we are stardust — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:26:27 +0000

In reply to I didn't know about this

Thanks all of you for weighing in on it; those non-binding things always bug the hell out of, like 'The sense of the Senate' crap, often again, on voice vote. I forget the rules, frankly; does it only take one Senator to ask for a recorded vote? Can you even get one on a non-binding thing like this? Boy; I can't remember. Maybe it's not worth digging into; some reporter will. Uh-huh...

Meanwhile, I'll go with AA's 'the Enterprise is Coming' wish-thinking magic. I admit I thought that if Obama waited long enough, it would be over myself.

I didn't know about this

Michael Maiello — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:54:33 +0000

In reply to Either that or they didn't

I didn't know about this until today either and I'm inclined to believe it means that the "Obama went it alone" narrative is not as simple as has been presented.

Really, you could only say that the resolution calls on the UN to handle this, not the US. But that'd be some absurdly untamed cynicism.