dagblog - Comments for "Are Americans still outraged ? Oh you betcha"

Mauk, if the typical comment

AmericanDreamer — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 15:01:54 +0000

In reply to This whole thing was totally

Mauk, if the typical comment at dag is to consist either of rants against Obama or not very persuasive defenses of him, well, people can write whatever they want to here, thank goodness. But, you know, I could find that at lots of places on the net.

My points are: it is entirely possible to be highly critical of Obama on a wide range of matters while still judging his performance in this recent round of negotiations with Boehner on its own merits. And, making sweeping criticisms about a particular outcome before the facts are in seems misplaced, perhaps the more so when one has just broadbrushed unnamed others at the site for being closed off to conclusions that don't fit with their preconceived or well-established narratives ("Obama is doing as good a job as can be expected", "Obama is a bum", or variants of these)!

After the last thing I wrote at dag last night I caught up with the WashPost coverage. My overall reactions were that they don't have all the facts yet, either, but that their version led me to somewhat greater renewed concerns than the Drum account left me with. Here are some links to yesterday's and today's coverage for you to read, if you wish to, and form your own conclusions:

"Budget cuts will affect vast spectrum", Philip Rucker, Tues 4.12.11 WashPost at:http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper/A%20Section/2011-04-12/A/10/18.0.2370818597_epaper.html

not on the recent agreement reached but relevant to the broader budget picture: "Work of bipartisan group to guide president's deficit plan", Lori Montgomery and Zachary Goldfarb, Tues 4.12.11 WashPost at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper/A%20Section/2011-04-12/A/11/18.0.2371765158_epaper.html

Two from today:

"Obama risks losing liberals", Zachary Goldfarb and Peter Wallsten, Wed 4.13.11 WashPost at:http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obamas-speech-on-debt-reduction-a-first-step-in-broader-effort-white-house-says/2011/04/12/AFitkvRD_story.html

"President urged to cap spending", Lori Mongtomery and Zachary Goldfarb, Wed 4.13.11 WashPost at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper/A%20Section/2011-04-13/A/1/18.0.2396546960_epaper.html

So...maybe then one who is trying not to read every new situation as confirmation of one's preexisting narrative starts wondering if Kevin Drum got spun a bit by some WH or OMB contact of his? Because after all, he's pretty well known in the liberal blogosphere so if you can pacify him maybe more liberals will feel able to live with what has been done.

The larger issue is now a well-established pattern for Obama wherein he has not done a good job of defining himself. So it is left for others to fill in the blanks.

That can, tactically, sometimes work to a politician's advantage. If you're Obama and you can manage the media coverage of this so as to minimize further outrage from jobless people, citizens worried from a well-informed standpoint about contractionary instead of expansionary economic policies hurting this bad economy, liberals and progressives--while pleasing those who want to see you work on the deficit and also those who want to see you be bipartisany--then that is to your short-term advantage.

A problem with doing too much of that is that over time the perception can develop, if it hasn't already, that as a President you don't really stand for anything, or at least anything you are willing to stand behind and act on consistently. And that can lead to major somewhat longer-term problems for a politician, even one who is in effect establishing for himself a single overriding goal of winning re-election at any cost.

Someone said the other day, Obey, I think, that those who think--perhaps including Obama, some of his top political advisors, and many of his supporters--that next year's election will depend on the comparison voters draw between Obama and the actual Republican nominee, may be mistaken.

It might instead be the case that the election operates as a referendum on Obama, on the economy, or some combination of the two. In which case...flexibility can be seen as a plus by voters, yes. So can having accomplished (what can be portrayed/spun as) "results" or "getting things done". But not having any clear idea what Obama "stands for" could also be associated with perceptions of poor leadership and/or lack of trust, which could of course hurt him at the polls.

I hope those who refrain from or hold off harsh denunciations of Obama in regard to specific actions he has taken where the facts are not even known do not then get denounced by denizens, thereby, as that most heinous of criminals, an uncritical Obama supporter. That seems to me pretty mindless, not to mention dull and unworthy of citizens operating at a pretty high level as are most folks here.

I did, and thank you. 'Bout

we are stardust — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 03:20:09 +0000

In reply to And thanks for the digby.

I did, and thank you. 'Bout broke my heart, that little egg with his Mum's Day card...maybe sayin', "Mother? Mo-o-o-the-e-e-r!" You could see his little eggy crest-falling. Awwww; poor Eggboy.

(Gotta love that sick-o artist...) And I saved the Muffin Suicide. Might make a good Christmas card. One year I printed that one: 'Merry Christmas from the NRA' with all Santa's reindeer dead in front of his sleigh...

And thanks for the digby.

Obey — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 02:46:18 +0000

In reply to Oh, my starz! That'll keep

And thanks for the digby. Quite right.

You caught the hyperlink above...

http://www.sharenator.com/The_power_of_imagination/#/egg-3.html

Some of us are blind to

we are stardust — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 02:38:07 +0000

In reply to Zat is a trade secret

Some of us are blind to hyperlinks; I almost loaded it in once I saw it, figured, "Oh, hell; if'n he wants me to, he could pay me the standard $3.99 fee. But no; ya hadda do bloggin on the cheap.

Seriously, somehow the font and whatnot didn't lead to further exploration somehow. I forget why; maybe no Hat references. Or zippers. Or self-gratification.

Zat is a trade secret

Obey — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 02:30:08 +0000

In reply to Oh, my starz! That'll keep

Zat is a trade secret dahling. Can't tell you where I find these things or my contributions here will cease to have any value whatsoever...

oh fuckit.

Anyhow, I was so disappointed no one appreciated the gagapoopoo, though. Can't win em all I guess.

Oh, my starz! That'll keep

we are stardust — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 02:21:36 +0000

In reply to Apparently he'll be endorsing

Oh, my starz! That'll keep me howling all night, Obey! And shit; that muffin's oven ain't even electric! (the only thing that ever saves me, I confess.)

Where did you find it? You fucking genius, you! And it took me awhile to click your link to the ILK site; you were holdin' out on us, methinks. ;o) ;o)

Plus Digby's thoughts...

Apparently he'll be endorsing

Obey — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 02:09:51 +0000

In reply to Love your cheer; but then

Apparently he'll be endorsing the deficit commission outlines.. But at least he won't believe what he says.

... ugh

Just heat up the oven already...

It's a hard knock life,

Desider — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 02:05:47 +0000

In reply to Love your cheer; but then

It's a hard knock life, Sandy, but I've got high hopes.

Love your cheer; but then

we are stardust — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 01:55:42 +0000

In reply to Well, i put up that link AD

Love your cheer; but then there's tomorrow. ;o)

Well, i put up that link AD

Obey — Wed, 13 Apr 2011 01:22:57 +0000

In reply to This whole thing was totally

Well, i put up that link AD was talking about originally. And I found it incredibly cheering. Largely because, to me, it showed that Obama wasn't actually interested in making cuts, though to all appearances he wanted them, and was publicly thrilled at making them and publicly arguing for why he wanted them. In reality it turns out he was conceding cuts, and trying to minimize them.

I.e. he doesn't actually believe that cuts are a good idea. And that thought is very comforting.

In short, he's not a sellout in terms of his values.

He's just totally incompetent.