dagblog - Comments for "Mild & Fair Weather Hybrids"

The hardest part on any

cmaukonen — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 21:18:14 +0000

In reply to Mild & Fair Weather Hybrids

The hardest part on any battery is the start up regardless of what type a battery or motor is being used. That is when the most current is drawn from the battery. The use of supercapacitors in hybrids is being tested.

They can give gobs of current and suffer no ill effects. But you simply cannot just parallel them with the battery pack because on charging, they also draw a great deal of current there by negating any benefits. You have to have additional control circuitry to control the charge when cruising.

I never said hybrids were too

Donal — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 20:40:55 +0000

In reply to Donal, I'm not defending the

I never said hybrids were too expensive to own, but prospective buyers should realize that most of them take a long time to pay for themselves. Also, there is some risk to investing in new technology, as Sasparilla and all those new Leaf owners discovered. Toyota's hybrid engine seems proven, but I'm not feeling good about Honda's mild tech right now.

Donal, I'm not defending the

quinn esq — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 18:36:03 +0000

In reply to That's not a review, just an

Donal, I'm not defending the Insight. I'm not that impressed. But you spelled out a long argument - as you have before - that the cost of a hybrid is too much to pay for itself in any sensible timeframe. That's why you went down into blog comments, to pull up reinforcement for that. All I did was say, let's make sure to use their latest price. And as I have said before, Iraq often the case thata the extras and options makers are putting on the hybrids are what's driving the price gap up. The Insight is just an example of that. It's a hybrid, it'll probably get you over 40 mpg, and its base price is well under $20,000. I probably wouldn't by one, but no, it's hybridization isn't making it too expensive to own. Which is also why (and how) both Honda and Toyota can make the moves they are, hybridizing many, perhaps most, of their models.

That's not a review, just an

Donal — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 12:12:00 +0000

In reply to Why use a July 2009 car

That's not a review, just an article, and it does sound cheaper, but not in a good way:

The slow-selling Honda Insight hasn't exactly stolen any of the Toyota Prius' thunder since its introduction last year, and with new green cars like the Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf ready to join the battle, the future of Honda's hybrid hatch doesn't look too bright. Still, the Japanese automaker has given the Insight a host of improvements for the 2011 model year, including a new base model that retails for $18,950 (including the $750 destination charge).

So, what do you ~~lose~~ gain with the base Insight? For starters, a downgraded stereo system is on hand, with a single CD player and two – yes, two – speakers. Audiophiles need not apply. Remote entry is standard on the base Insight, but if you want amenities like cruise control, a USB audio interface, center armrest and floor mats, you'll need to opt for the mid-grade LX trim. In other words, the new price leader is something of a municipal and fleet special. On the opposite end of the spectrum, the pricier EX now comes standard with steering wheel-mounted audio controls and can be optioned with navigation.

An article from Feb 2010 claims, Honda: Insight "too small" and likely to miss sales targets, Fit Hybrid a 'struggle' and raises doubts that a Fit hybrid would be competitive:

Honda Executive Vice President Koichi Kondo doesn't seem to think that the automaker will hit its worldwide sales goal of 200,000 Insight hybrids in its first year on the market. Why? In an interview with Bloomberg, Kondo is quoted as saying "I think we compromised too much on size in pursuing fuel efficiency" for the U.S. market, he said.

In total, Honda sold 130,445 units of its Insight worldwide in 2009. The car was first introduced in Japan in February and then in the U.S. in March. In the States, the car's second-largest market, Honda sold just 20,572 units in 2009 – a far cry from the 90,000 it hoped to sell here in the first year.

Further, in reference to the long-expected Honda Fit Hybrid, Kondo said:

There are plenty of people who think that the current Fit meets their needs already [when it comes to fuel efficiency]... a hybrid version might seem expensive. Our engineers are really struggling.

It remains to be seen whether the upcoming CR-Z can bolster Honda's sketchy hybrid positioning.

According to the most recent article, Insights do seem to be selling better at the lower price point.

The prices they quoted in the review were not base model prices, they included options as driven.

Why use a July 2009 car

quinn esq — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 05:48:00 +0000

In reply to Mild & Fair Weather Hybrids

Why use a July 2009 car review for the Insight? AutoBlog put a newer one out on Dec 1st, 2010 entitled, "Honda Insight gets much cheaper base model, new features for 2011."

The new base model charge is $18,200 by the way, almost $4,000 lower than the story you quote. I'm sure there's a new Fit price too, but any price gap is certainly less than $4,200 now.