The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    Hating people sucks

    By Flavius on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 12:13pm |

    I don't hate anyone except the  monsters who lynch or torture.I don't hate Trump,  wall street bankers or racists.Of any color .Naturally there  are black racists as well as white ones . (And  of course it's easier to understand why a black would be one. )

    But  even the white racists I know  would dive  into a pond to rescue a drowning black. The same I'm sure is  true of any of the blacks I know. I don't write of  "even the black racists I know" because I don't  personally know any.

    Chiefly because of that  I'll talk about white ones.The few southern white racists I once knew  were chiefly ones I met in uniform.. Two types: educated and not .I wasn't friendly with any of the poorly educated ones because I'm an education snob. But I had no reason to believe they wouldn't have dived into that pond.

    The educated ones were often good company: told amusing jokes, said intelligent things from which learned.   And racist things. I didn't know any of them well enough to now adamantly insist they'd dive into that pond. But that was my gut feeling otherwise I wouldn't have had even the contact with them I did.

    Non southern white racists. We've heard a lot of them being interviewed on NPR recently. Not very well. I'll talk about the males. 

    I'm reminded of selling my car when I was leaving town. To a black guy. He gave me the hundred bucksand I said "Can I buy you a beer? ".  We went to the bar . Fairly nice Cincinnati neighborhood. I said "two beers". For a while nothing happened then the bar tender handed me two bottles which seemed odd since all the guys at the bar had glasses.Anyway he  took my cash and asked me to go to the cash register. I expected to get my my change but instead was told "We don't serve (N word) here but I didn't want to embarrass  you so drink your beer and leave ". The guys at  bar  didn't look evil . In fact they didn't seem to  particularly notice us but I think about them as I go on and on . And  on.

    What  happens to Joe Lunchpail on one those bar stools  when he loses his job.? Used to wire harness boards  in Evendale. Skilled work. And patriotic since the boards went into bombers.   Supported his wife and kids, had a beer-at that bar- after work, mowed the lawn  on weekends and watched the NFL. A good father.  

    Then lost his job. 'Well he should have been retrained.' Nonsense. You don't learn a new  skill after 35. Certainly not as well as the 25 year old the employer could easily hire instead .Nor can companies be expected to hire Joe anyway . Companies are owned by shareholders . It's not up to the CEO to give their money away. They've got bills to pay too and some of them desperately needs that dividend.

    So he's  out of work.  Forever. He does hate people. I wish he wouldn't ,but I understand it.(BTW why don't I say "he shouldn't" ?  I happen not to be religious, so I don't use "should".)

    Who does he hate?  Wall Street bankers?  As some people  who write who  here do. They shouldn't  ,ha!I wish they  wouldn't. Do you know Wall Street bankers ? I do.  Some of them are among  the nicest people I've known. Some others, less so.  

    Jews? Immigrants? Blacks?Hillary?

    Hating is  what you do when things go wrong. I don't like it but that's the way it is.

    How about Trump? Should we hate him. My friend David has the same politics as mine and yours. But happens to have  business  reasons to meet The Donald from time to time, And doesn't hate him. Sort of likes him. Maybe the women Trump  abused should hate him. Leave that to them.

    It's OK to   hate policies. Like Trump (and Keynes) I hate Free Trade. At least for the US.

    In countries like France or Germany with a real   "safety net" Free Trade may make sense.. But when you lose your job in the United States and can't get another, after you become  desperate. And desperate people hate . I wish they didn't but they do.

    So , back to work. Try to make things  better if you can. But at least try not to hate anyone.

    Work on it.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Comments

    My mother always told me to never say I hated someone - never.  I could "dislike a whole lot!" but never hate.  So I grew up feeling like if I let myself feel it enough to actually say it then I needed to rethink, breathe deeply and recognize that hating hurts.  But I can still fervently dislike a whole lot. 


    by barefooted on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 12:36pm

    Mother knows best!


    by Flavius on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 12:58pm

    Merriam Webster defines Hate as "a very strong dislike." Please explain how a fervent dislike is different from hate.

    I hate Trump and the dumb ass fuckers that voted for him. I'm totally ok with feeling that way.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 1:06pm

    Ditto.

    I have had conversations with Trump voters. I remain civil, but explain my belief that Trump is a racist. Recognizing is your feelings is important. Letting your feeling control you to a point where you are ready to do something irrational or illegal is a totally different matter. Many Trump voters let hatred of Hillary or Obama control  their vote.


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 1:27pm

    Agree.


    by Flavius on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 2:04pm

    I suppose it's the depth and darkness of the emotion, not the definition.  How much the actual word matters is an individual assessment.


    by barefooted on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 1:32pm

    It doesn't.

    Fervently disliking people also sucks.

    Hating actions is OK. I hated Obama's Trans Pacific Trade Policy altho I loved the guy.

    .


    by Flavius on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 2:02pm

    What is acceptable in your book? Being mildly annoyed? Trump is the most odious person the republicans could have picked for president. I hate him. I'm not going to go all Orwellian and say he's just double plus not good and I double plus don't like him.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 2:55pm

    I'm with you, OKat.  In fact I will list others that I hate, and it because they are hateful, selfish, and (the word of the week). ODIOUS:

    Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Dick Cheney, McConnell, Marco Rubio, Vladimir Putin, the Trump kids who shoot beautiful animals and then take pictures of them with the corpses, Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich, Kellyanne Conway, Omaroo (or what ever her name is -- the woman who said they were making a list of Republicans who didn't support the Donald) Donald Rumsfeld, and more, but I'm just getting mad so I'll stop.


    by CVille Dem on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 3:21pm

    Fuck them all. Trump is bad enough but that pustulating pile of shit is going to chose the most disgusting rancid republicans to further his malicious vindictive policies. Giuliani, Gingrich, Christy.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 3:27pm

    Oh, I also hate the press that did everything they could to get him elected.  They hounded HRC over "potential conflicts of interest" regarding her ACTUAL charity that does good works.  

    They never made Donald release his taxes, answer for his bogus "charity" or agree that his children can't run his businesses and call it a blind trust.  And now they are saying he has a mandate!  They guy who got fewer votes than HRC has a mandate?  

    And they are absolutely bubbling over with joy at the "smoothness" of this transition today, without acknowledging at all that it is only because HRC and Obama are actual normal humans, with the best interest of the country at heart.  They don't bring up the cluster-fuck that would be happening now if Donald had lost.  

    I hate the FBI for throwing this election with the help of Russia.

    Yes, I hate all of them.  But I will not let them live rent-free in my brain.  


    by CVille Dem on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 3:28pm

    As expected a sensible  conclusion.

    And as for all preceding stuff, sure. Understandable today .

    But you, me and ocean kat all know that , maybe next week,  you'll meet  a good friend  who made what you and I both know was a mistake and voted  for deplorable Donald.  And you'll still  be able to laugh together.

     


    by Flavius on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 6:38pm

    We mostly post about politics and not personal stuff so we really don't know each other here. I doubt I have any good friends that voted for Trump. If I discover any did I will cut them out of my life. The only people I won't cut out of my life are my family.  I have a large circle of friendly acquaintances that I give a free pass to visit the ghost town where I'm the caretaker. Most come here to swim in the lake and hang out on the beach. I can't refuse Trump supporters admittance but I've already decided if I discover anyone I know voted for Trump there will be no more free passes. And I will tell them why, clearly and unequivocally. I've made other decisions but as the caretaker I'm not prepared to discuss them on line.

    It's no longer business as usual for me. Every thing has changed. The battle lines have been drawn. Trump and his supporters have made them very clear and I know what side I'm on. It's not going to change next week and it's not going to change next year. I'm not going to laugh about this until Trump is out of office and likely not even then.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 7:37pm

    I am civil but I expect that if AG Giuliani works towards expansion of Stop and Frisk that I will cut some people who supported Trump out of my life. I expect it will be easy.

    Edit to add:

    The more I talk to Trump supporters the more I'll-informed I find them to be. These are successful people but there a bility to accept new facts in the area of politics is very limited. Discussions with them are a waste of your time. I expend energy supplying them with sources of information but they cannot data that does not come from Fox.


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 7:57pm

    Trump = Hillary's fault.

    Latest TV punditry. I don't watch any of these millionaire grifters but Driftglass has some quotes. It's always the liberals fault.


    by NCD on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 8:02pm

    You can't fix stupid. Trump voters just laid a giant turd. That is not the fault of Liberals, blacks, or Latinos. Trump voters are not very bright. I make this comment after talking to them. They feign empathy but lack the ability to care for others in practice. Trump ushers in a period where attacks on blacks, Latinos,Asians, and women are encouraged. They voted to suppress minority voters, end access to health care, and limit a woman's ability to choose.

    Liberals represented the majority of voters in this election. Liberals who voted for Hillary cast sane votes. Liberals who voted for Hillary can stand proud.We will fight on. We will save the country in spite of itself. We are entering the new era of the battle for civil rights.

    Trump voters whined because they felt left behind. Clinton supporters suffered equal economic and housing setbacks, yet their impulse was to cast votes that would help everybody. Think about Hillary supporters were under economic stress and felt the need to come together. Trump voters were upset that people who did not look like them were also receiving attention.


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 8:28pm

    Angela Merkel note to Trump on his election:

    Merkel dispatched a cautionary note, offering cooperation with the caveat that it be based on “democracy, freedom, as well as respect for the rule of law and the dignity of each and every person, regardless of their origin, skin color, creed, gender, sexual orientation, or political views.”

    They say Merkel moving into role as leader of the free world.


    by NCD on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 8:40pm

    When Germany has to remind the President-elect of issues of equality, we really are in a new era.


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 8:54pm

    Trump voters will fervently (and quietly) hate him when they finally at some future date, and hopefully with Bernie and E. Warrens help, come to the realization that Trump and the GOP's mission accomplished is to serve Wall Street and the 1%.

    And who will pay for it..... is them. see Trump voters will not like what happens next.


    by NCD on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 2:18pm

    Being consumed with hatred is not the same as being firmly resolved to defeat the aspirations of certain other people.
    That kind of resolution leads to conflict. Whether that conflict leads to killing other people is the line between war and something else. Our history as a Republic is a sequence of those different kinds of conflict. The line between the different kinds has often been blurred by violence that did not become outright wars that threatened the Republic. For the people involved in those incidents,however, it was a war.
    So, there are plans and ideas held by other people that I want to hinder and dishonor because I recognize that they militate against what I think is important and honorable. I understand they see me the same way. I don't hate them but I want them to lose the fight. I don't want it to come to trading blows but that is not entirely up to me.


    by moat on Thu, 11/10/2016 - 10:03pm

    Trump voters chose a racist candidate because their issues were more important. They put my family in jeopardy. There is no reason to trust or respect them. They would produce crocodile tears if I told them a family member was traumatized by Stop and Frisk, but they would not lift a finger to change the policy. 


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 1:10am

    My last "contribution" for the day.

    I only personally know one person who said she voted for Trump, Graduate of a ivy league school. Liberal , empathetic,deeply versed in the intricacies  of politics. She voted early which is why I know her vote.

    Probably early because of a family tragedy during the summer . Which I won't discuss. And which clearly

    doesn't  provide any evidence with respect to the wisdom of  her vote.

    Among the 60 million Hillary voters (300 ,000 more than Trump's!) there are bound to be cases equally  sad. 

    I know one . An 102 year old ill woman ,desperately trying to stay alive to experience the election of the first woman president.

    Neither story ,of course, confirms the suitability of their choice. Just shows that the single identifier "Trump Voter" or "Hillary One" is wildly insufficient as a basis for hating (or loving ) anyone. If you tell me you personally know  a Trump voter to whom any one of the deplorable adjectives apply. I'll take your word for it.

    But you don't know all of the  almost 60 million of them so if  you  apply any of  the unflattering adjectives to them you're on safer ground if you just  say "some". Or maybe better  just call them 'fellow americans'.

    I'm out of here.


    by Flavius on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 1:25am

    You keep talking about this election like it was a normal election. It wasn't normal in my eyes. I thought Romney was the best of the republicans in my life time. He was a good and compassionate man. He was thoughtful. I disagreed with most of his policy proposals but I could have accepted it if Romney beat Obama. I was ok with the first Bush. He was a smart man and careful with the use of power. He knew it's limitations. Even GW and Reagan were acceptable.

    Trump is unacceptable. He's an odious human being. For at least a significant minority of his voters his racist statements and his misogyny was the attraction. For the rest it was not seen as disqualifying. I could discuss his lack of knowledge on every subject except perhaps the New York real estate market. And his apparent lack of curiosity or interest in making any attempt to correct that ignorance. I could talk about his advocating torture and the murder of the families of terrorists. I could talk about his tendency to fly of the handle and to act out in rage. I could discuss these and many other things that disqualify Trump from being president. But all I should need to point out is his blatant clear racism and misogyny. That's enough for me to say I hate Trump and those who embrace or by their vote validate his racism and misogyny.

    There are many words in the English language that mean mostly the same thing. I think all those words have a use at some time or another. I don't just dislike Trump. I don't just fervently dislike this detestable man. I hate that rancid sack of rotting garbage. I use hate because it's the strongest word English has and my dislike is that strong. That hate extends to those who voted for him. You're in a different place and I'm not going to tell you you need to hate. I'm just telling you where I'm at and I don't accept your view that using that word to describe where I'm at is wrong.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 2:54am

    Trump has normalized hate. He promises to expand Stop and Frisk and probably will reverse DOJ attempts to sever ties with private prisons. These things are just the tip of a turd iceberg for the black community. Trump is a documented racist who as president puts my family in danger. People who voted for Trump did not care about that fact. You defend these people. In the past, there were white citizen's councils. Council members were respected members of the community who made certain that Jim Crow laws remained in force and that misbehaving blacks and Jews were "kept in line". The majority of whites knew what the councils were doing and did nothing to stop them. I have zero respect for the people who remained silent. I really don't care why Trump voters cast their votes, only that they did. I am tired of the racist meme about " hard working folks" who were tired of being ignored. Hard working blacks are in economic pain after the housing collapse and because of high unemployment. Trump told us that we had "nothing to lose" by voting for his racist behind. He is aided in his efforts by house Negroes like Omarosa, Ben Carson, and Sheriff Clarke. Trump would not have rented any of them an apartment back in the day. These Negroes overlook his leadership of the birther movement. They ignore the fact that, despite DNA evidence to the contrary, Trump still believes that the Central Park Five are guilty. Combine those facts with the Stop and Frisk assault on my family's civil rights, and you have the reason that I don't care why your friend voted for Trump. She doesn't care about my family, I don't care about her. It's an issue of survival. I have a diverse community of friends who do care about me, so she is not important to me. I don't trust your friend just like I don't trust the other people who voted for Trump. I wouldn't have trusted the people who did nothing during the Jim Crow era either. 


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 9:27am

    In a way, nothing much has changed.

    "Hating" is more something that can tangle you up internally.

    Rejecting all of them completely - their message, their persons, their activities - doesn't require hate, but if it feels good, sure, do it.

    The only thing is, persuading the not completely deplorable, the not completely incorrigible, might require trying to find some common ground to get them to move, which might be harder to do if in a blistering fury.

    But that's all pretty abstract, while the appointments and specific policies are pretty concrete right now. Again, back it up to "what would Jesus do", "what would MLK do". I haven't seen BLM be terribly successful, but if you like them or some other group's outcomes, use them as a model. Just try not to lose your head or your soul.


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 10:54am

    All that I am doing is expressing my opinion before Trump shuts down free discussion and easy access to a variety of sites on the internet. Net Neutrality may be in jeopardy.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 12:32pm

    Everything's in jeapardy :-(


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 12:47pm

    Just read NYT comments from a number of articles on Trump. NYT commenters are smart people by and large. My recollection of some of them:

    Owner of a manufacturing firm in Kansas City: have not received an order since Nov. 4th. 'When people are scared they don't spend. They are scared.' If it doesn't pick up by the end of the month he is out of business. Says what Brownback has done to Kansas, Trump will do to America, a disaster.

    History shows there is not a long record for democracies where voters believe and wallow in big lies.

    Wall Street investment banker. Day after election meeting ended with talk of the 6 figure tax cuts they will get. Ended with one of them 'joking' he wondered what social programs would be cut to pay for them. Followed by laughter from all except the comment writer..

    If voters wanted to clean out the swamp and change Washington, why did they re-elect 98% of the people there?

    A number of comments noting Trump is already tweet blaming a media conspiracy for anti-Trump protests.

    Harry Reid's open letter to Donald Trump:

     “I have personally been on the ballot in Nevada for 26 elections and I have never seen anything like the reaction to the election completed last Tuesday. The election of Donald Trump has emboldened the forces of hate and bigotry in America.


        “White nationalists, Vladimir Putin and ISIS are celebrating Donald Trump’s victory, while innocent, law-abiding Americans are wracked with fear – especially African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Muslim Americans, LGBT Americans and Asian Americans. Watching white nationalists celebrate while innocent Americans cry tears of fear does not feel like America.


        “I have heard more stories in the past 48 hours of Americans living in fear of their own government and their fellow Americans than I can remember hearing in five decades in politics. Hispanic Americans who fear their families will be torn apart, African Americans being heckled on the street, Muslim Americans afraid to wear a headscarf, gay and lesbian couples having slurs hurled at them and feeling afraid to walk down the street holding hands. American children waking up in the middle of the night crying, terrified that Trump will take their parents away. Young girls unable to understand why a man who brags about sexually assaulting women has been elected president.

        “I have a large family. I have one daughter and twelve granddaughters. The texts, emails and phone calls I have received from them have been filled with fear – fear for themselves, fear for their Hispanic and African American friends, for their Muslim and Jewish friends, for their LBGT friends, for their Asian friends. I’ve felt their tears and I’ve felt their fear.


        “We as a nation must find a way to move forward without consigning those who Trump has threatened to the shadows. Their fear is entirely rational, because Donald Trump has talked openly about doing terrible things to them. Every news piece that breathlessly obsesses over inauguration preparations compounds their fear by normalizing a man who has threatened to tear families apart, who has bragged about sexually assaulting women and who has directed crowds of thousands to intimidate reporters and assault African Americans. Their fear is legitimate and we must refuse to let it fall through the cracks between the fluff pieces.


        “If this is going to be a time of healing, we must first put the responsibility for healing where it belongs: at the feet of Donald Trump, a sexual predator who lost the popular vote and fueled his campaign with bigotry and hate. Winning the electoral college does not absolve Trump of the grave sins he committed against millions of Americans. Donald Trump may not possess the capacity to assuage those fears, but he owes it to this nation to try.


        “If Trump wants to roll back the tide of hate he unleashed, he has a tremendous amount of work to do and he must begin immediatel


    by NCD on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 11:35am

     Thanks Flavius. I would like it if more people thought more like you. I wish they did. I would like it because it would make it easier to make the U.S, and the world a better place to live. That would be a "good" thing. So, that said, I think it is justified to put as a positive "value" the value of rejecting hate. The flip side of that coin is that embracing hate is "bad". 

    Justifying "hatred" of an entire large class of people is a result.   Hate has many antecedents .


    by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 1:33pm

    Many thoughtful ,even moving , explanations  of why you think you're right to hate Trump. I don't agree but I won't try to win that battle. I expect he'll govern in such a way that I will  come to hate him. We'll see.

    But I don't hate the 60 million people who  made the mistake of thinking he would be less bad than Hillary. Yet.

    If they continue to support him when he governs in a way that makes me hate him maybe I'll come to hate them. We'll see.

    I think it might have been right to hate the millions of the Germans who supported Hitler . But you'd still have to examine  that when you met any individual Nazi.

     I did.

    In Germany, in the army.

    Eric had  served a couple of months in 1945 as a 15 year old. Lucky he said to be captured by the Canadians. Had the best food he'd eaten since 1940.

    We were both reading Dostoyevsky  Talked about that. I met some of his class mates at the local University. Mostly one's who'd escaped from behind the 'Curtain'. He went along with me to buy some fan belts so our gravely underequipped  battery could survive the long drive to the vast shooting range in Graffenweor.

    I was sent for a course to ,of all places,  Dachau. One icy  afternoon I spent a couple of  hours alone in the primitive  museum . I particularly remember a snap shot of wretched prisoners being marched along the Hochstrasse , past Hausfrauen in line at the bakery and bureaucrats carrying their brief cases to the Munich train.

     Everybody knew.

    And also remember the memo instructing  the Camp commander on the economics of his job.Initially new prisoners were to be held in the  lager where the food cost a DM per day. And rented to thelocal farmers for two DM.

    Thus the group in the being marched  along main street.

    When they became so weak the farmers wouldn't pay two DM , cut it to  1 DM ,50 pfennig. And move those particular prisoners to the section where the food cost was  half of that. Und so weiter. If you get the point. No doubt the commander did.

    When I returned from the course it was a glorious day. First warm day at the end of winter.We drove down to Weisbaden. Had coffee and cake in a restaurant looking on  the tennis courts where the already tanned young of  the Wirtschaftwunder   were flirting and playing.

    On the way back, without my having said anything, Eric:

                  " Oh you've been to Dachau".

    Me    

       "Sure"

                " I suppose you believed what they tell you there."

    Me    

     " Eric , nobody told me anything.......But I can use my eyes"

    Eric

        "You don't know what they were like !"

    Silence until I let him out in Giessen.

    It was right to hate Eric. 

            


    by Flavius on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 2:34pm

    Flavius, you make the assumption that we are different than you. You assume that we want to see harm come to others. What we are saying is that Trump voters cast votes for a racist. Whites in the South tolerated the KKK. There was no reason for me to trust the morals of those Southerners. There is no reason for me to trust that Trump supporters aren't racist. Polling documented higher racial animus among Trump supporters.

    I have discussed things like police abuse and Stop and Frisk with people who wound up supporting Trump. The plain fact is that, for the most part, they dismissed my concerns. They were more concerned about the protests after unarmed blacks were killed than they were about the murdered blacks. You want to sugarcoat their behavior.

    At the end of the day, my conversations have led me to the same conclusions as you came to about Eric.None of the Trump voters that I know will object to nationalized Stop and Frisk or increased voter suppression. You have no moral authority here because you are completely unaware of the real situation.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 3:21pm

    Flavius, you make the assumption that we are different than you.

    I think you're misunderstanding Flavius. I think he's making the assumption that we are just like him. He specifically named me as someone just like him.

    " But you, me and ocean kat all know that , maybe next week,  you'll meet  a good friend  who made what you and I both know was a mistake and voted  for deplorable Donald.  And you'll still  be able to laugh together. "

    I'm sure Flavius and I agree on many policy ideas but he doesn't know me. I won't be laughing together with any Trump voter next week or next year. What I will be doing with any Trump voter, friend or not, is letting them know that by their vote they have declared war on everything I value therefore on me. That I now consider them my enemy and that I intend to act accordingly. I won't be nice when I explain it to them.

    There are times when the politics and the personal are inseparable. For me, this is one of them.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 3:47pm

    We are in agreement. The Obamas have class. Trump is a conman. Pence believes in conversion therapy for homosexuals. Melania has nude pics on the internet and will be FLOTUS. HER "project" will be cyber bullying ignoring the fact that the nect POTUS is cyber bully in chief.

     


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 5:03pm

    I'd leave Melania out of it. Her pics are airbrushed Playboy style from 30 years ago as a tasteful professional model - less than any modern actress would display, and *actors* aren't required to show skin to succeed, only actresses - actors don't have the red carpet fashion suit to show what they're wearing, preferably revealing, etc.. Drop it, please - so many valid things to complain about.

    [once we start the shaming here, a whole generation of girls doing selfies are automatically ineligible for public office.... again, something we never care about for guys except a twit like Anthony Weiner]


    by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/12/2016 - 12:19am

    Of course you're right  that for blacks control of the Government is a matter of life or death.

    And that in everyday language some of Trump's supporters are " hateful.". And  some are not just " hateful" in some qualified sense  but in fact are vicious louts whom you are right to hate. 

    I would in your place. And I'm  forced to admit that I do hate them End of story. 

    But I don't hate the guy - of any ethnicity  starting  his fifth year of unemployment because of Nafta. Nor the Staten Island woman I heard yesterday on NPR. Had intended to vote for Hillary and then there was "that email thing" that came up two weeks ago so she shifted to Trump.

    Groan.

    We both pay close attention to politics. Sadly  a lot of the country doesn't pay nearly enough .  And unthinkingly  make that sort of serious mistake. I don't hate them. I hate the effects of those mistakes.

     


    by Flavius on Sat, 11/12/2016 - 7:45am