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    NDAA 2012 Update: Odrona Demands Dismissal Of Section 1021 Injunction

    Odrona The Indefinite Detainer

    Corporate puppet and wannabe fascist dictator Barack Obama aka Bushbama aka Bushbamney wants to keep the power to make you disappear asserted in AUMF 2001.

    NDAA 2012 UPDATE: ODRONA DEMANDS DISMISSAL OF SECTION 1021 INJUNCTION

    "Dissent without civil disobedience is consent."-Henry David Thoreau

    In the case of Christopher Hedges et al v. Barack Obama et al (Case 1:12-cv-00331-KBF) the fascist regime of corporate puppet president Barack Bushbamney Odrona just filed its brief in opposition to a permanent injunction against the indefinite detention of American citizens without charge or trial provisions of Section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act of Fiscal Year 2012 (NDAA 2012|Public Law 112–81), which passed both houses of Congress with broad bipartisan - as in both Democratic and Republican - support before being signed into law by Obama last New Year's Eve while you were out celebrating and he was in Hawaii and a safe distance away from the protest you never made.  Their Preliminary Statement reads as follows:

    )(

    Defendants Barack Obama,Leon Panetta, and the Department of Defense (collectively, the "government") respectfully submit this memorandum in opposition to plaintiffs' request for a permanent injunction against the operation of a portion of section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, Pub. L. 112-81, 125 Stat. 1298 (Dec. 31, 2011) (the "NDAA"), and in support of the government's request that the Court enter final judgment in its favor.

    Plaintiffs present a truly extraordinary claim in this action. They seek to enjoin the operation of a statute enacted by Congress and signed into law by the President, a statute that codifies a longstanding Executive military-detention authority that has been upheld by the courts, and therefore enjoys the endorsement of all three branches of the government. While that alone would be an ambitious endeavor, plaintiffs reach even further, and claim that they, as journalists and activists, may obtain an injunction to invalidate the statute on its face, to apply worldwide, and, most unusually, to prohibit certain uses of the military detention authority exercised by the United States and the Commander-in-Chief during an ongoing armed conflict. Any one of those facts should cause extreme hesitation by the Court; taken together, they require the most exacting scrutiny to ensure that if the judicial power is to be exercised in such a far-reaching manner it is clearly within the Court's jurisdiction to do so. Yet plaintiffs cannot come close to establishing that jurisdiction, as they cannot carry their burden of demonstrating even the basic elements of standing. They claim they fear military detention, based on an erroneous interpretation of the statute that would extend its scope in direct contradiction of the statute's words, and with no regard for the context that gives it meaning. They persist in asserting that interpretation even though it is contravened by over a decade of history; they cannot point to a single example of the military's detaining anyone for engaging in conduct even remotely similar to the type of expressive activities they allege could lead to detention. And they continue to seek unprecedented injunctive relief despite already obtaining assurance from the government in this case that based on their allegations they are not detainable under this statute. Plaintiffs therefore have fallen far short of meeting their burden to show they have been injured by the statute; their complaints are the types of generalized grievances of allegedly unlawful government conduct that have been repeatedly held insufficient to support standing.

    Even if plaintiffs had some cognizable injuries, those harms would not be redressed by an injunction against section 1021; as plaintiffs themselves acknowledge, such an injunction would have "nil" effect, for the government would continue to possess the identical detention authority under the 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Force. Plaintiffs thus would achieve no meaningful relief from the injunction they seek, and lack standing for that reason as well. Because plaintiffs lack standing, this Court need not (and must not) unnecessarily decide the constitutional questions plaintiffs present.

    If it were necessary to reach the merits, plaintiffs' claims would fail. Their facial and overbreadth challenges, if even appropriate in this context, founder on the indisputable fact that section 1021 has a plainly legitimate sweep that dwarfs the purported infringement on free expression; indeed, the statute is not even aimed at speech or expressive conduct. Nor is the statute unconstitutionally vague: it does not prohibit any conduct and therefore is not even subject to vagueness analysis. Even if it were it would still be valid, as its meaning as informed by context is more than clear enough to meet constitutional standards. All of plaintiffs' claims on the merits fail, but in particular none of their theories can come close to justifying the invalidation of the non-punitive war-time authority that Congress affirmed in section 1021.

    For all those reasons, the Court should enter judgment for the government.

    The entire brief (.pdf):

    http://tinyurl.com/ndaa2012-hedges-v-obama

    )(

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."-John F. Kennedy

    REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS: ALL PROBLEMS, NO SOLUTION.  

    END TWO-PARTY TYRANNY: OUR SECOND REVOLUTION!


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    Heads up for Twitter users...

    Apparently tweeting the truth about greedy corporations or corrupt politicians is all it takes to get yourself censored on Twitter.  Since our recent unrelated disclosures that (a) eating a bowl of Cheerios is no more "heart healthy" than eating a bowl of dirt ( http://bit.ly/zDYa45 ) and (b) many American Bikers suffer from Sensenbrenner Syndrome ( http://bit.ly/MBBIBQ ), tweets from @VVVPR are being blocked from the Twitter search stream.  If you are a Twitter user, we ask you to tweet @Support and demand they respond to ticket #5626282 and end their spineless censorship of @VVVPR.

    ...and a question about the Aurora Colorado Batman theater shootings:

    http://twitter.com/WatchFrogsBoil/status/226629769016520704

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    IronBoltBruce via VVV PR ( http://veritasvirtualvengeance.com | http://twitter.com/vvvpr )

    Related Image: http://veritasvirtualvengeance.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/odrona-indefi...

    Related Video: http://vimeo.com/46313489 - Bill Moyers and Chris Hedges on The Need to Revolt

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    Tag:  #ndaa, #ndaa2012, #indefinitedetention, #aumf, #obama, #bushbama, #bushbamney, #odrona, #protest, #protests, #protesters, #protesting, #nvcd, #freespeechzones, #orwellian, #amerika, #sheeple, #fascism, #fascists, #kleptocracy, #anonymous, #ows, #protest, #rebellion, #revolution

    Key:  ndaa, ndaa 2012, indefinite detention, aumf 2001, obama, bushbama, bushbamney, odrona, protest, protests, protesters, protesting, nvcd, non-violent civil disobedience, free speech zones, dissent without permission, orwellian, amerika, sheeple, fascism, fascists, kleptocracy, anonymous, ows, protest, rebellion, revolution

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    Comments

    Well, Bruce... answer the government's question here.  Has the U.S. government ever detained "anyone for engaging in conduct even remotely similar to the type of expressive activities they allege could lead to detention?"

    Also, you still owe me $100.


    This is the first I have seen of your claim.  Please email me the basis for it.  If it proves credible, you'll get your $100.00.  You have my email address or can easily find it.


    You don't read all of your comments?  It's actually right underneath when you first offered $100 to anyone who could catch you in a mistake.  It was on a health care post.  You know what I'm talking about, IBB.


    But, I have a better idea.  You don't want to give me $100 to waste.  So... you donate it to the Obama campaign.


    No, I do not read all my comments.  So again, this is the first I have seen of your claim.  Please email me the basis for it.  If it proves credible, you'll get your $100.00.  You have my email address or can easily find it.  Hopefully posting this twice will suffice.


    Not exactly skillful PR for a self-described PR person supposedly specializing in promoting truth to go private on this, or to pretend you haven't seen your mistakes when they have been pointed out to you. Kind of thing can ruin a reputation on the net, real easy.

    I'll save you time on the excuses (i.e., can't find it, didn't see it, the dog ate my homework)--here it is, with links:

    ....Find any factual error attributable to me in anything I have ever posted to this blog, support you claim via link(s) to substantial authoritative sources, and I will pay you $100 cash.  And unless and until you do, "artappraiser", please understand how I and others might judge you to be arrogantly ignorant, ignorantly arrogant, or perhaps just a run-of-the-mill LIAR.

    by ironboltbruce 7/2/2012 - 8:19 pm (re: artappraiser)

    REPLY TO THE ABOVE COMMENT:

    You're going to owe my $100 in a second.  Wait for it...

    First, you say that 5 million of us are going to lose our health insurance.  Then you cite the CBO as your evidence:

        "Also, 3 million to 5 million fewer people will have coverage through an employer compared with the number under prior law."

    These words do not mean what you think they mean.  These people don't "lose their insurance," they gain insurance through other means (exchanges, Medicaid, CHIP, etc.).  This does not even mean that employers drop coverage, it just means that in the new mix of the newly insured, in aggregate, fewer are covered through their employers, even though more people are covered.

    But, it also means that you're out 100 smackers.

    by destor23 7/3/2012 - 10:35 am (re: ironboltbruce)

    To which another member replied:

    Reading Comprehension is for Sheeple! heheheh
    by tmccarthy0 7/3/2012 - 10:54 am (re: destor23)

    When you didn't respond, but others did, destor commented again:

    I want my money!
    by destor23 7/4/2012 - 7:07 am (re: Flavius)

    Also, this was the very first comment on your very next thread, and it's really really hard to believe you didn't see the first comment, though you didn't respond:

    Bruce, we have business to discuss.
    by destor23 7/5/2012 - 4:43 pm

    Then we have me bringing it up on another thread, 8 days later, again, it's right at the top, first two comments

    Speaking of droning...
    by destor23 7/13/2012 - 9:25 am

    Did you collect on the bet yet?
    by artappraiser 7/13/2012 - 8:52 pm (re: destor23)

    Sooo, what you are saying is that you deal with challenges by making wagers guaranteeing your "product," but then you never look at any other comments to see if anyone took you up on that wager?

    Really really phony bullshit to do that, worse than most ad & sales men promising to deliver something!

    I have to admit I didn't reply to destor on that original thread because I suspected you would try to pretend when you actually got a challenge that it was a rhetorical or pretend that you didn't see it. Seems appropriate to your whole agitprop shtick, post some hyperbolic blather and boast, and pay no attention to what happens to it.

    So far it seems, from what you have done on this site, is that if you happen to run across some questions or criticism by chance, you demean and insult the audience you were targeting, and that's just pitiful! LOL pitiful failure as PR! Kind of the anti-thesis of PR! You know, public relations, relate to the public, try to convince them of something? Not: run away from the public! And no such thing as the Don Rickles school of PR where you insult your readers.

    But it's not all funny to me, I must say the thing that really irks me about your shtick, and I think shtick is an appropriate term here, is that you write phony angry, PR angry; it's clear you're not really angry, but that you're just selling anger. It's hard for me to find any honor in what you are doing. Not only that, my opinion is that you're bad at it! it's so transparent! agitprop for dummies, not even Course 101 level.

    And now you trying to weasel out of your guarantees, behind readers' backs, and you want to admit error only via private email, pretending you didn't see the answer to your challenge. Most MSM you would decry publish their corrections to errors for the public to see.


    Heh, Nice AA.


    thanks, now I get it, all these blogs has been IBB's attempt to get a job with the MSM or some political campaign.  it all makes senses now.


    It never ceases to amaze me how those with little to contribute can be so willing and eager to contribute it.


    This statement by Destor is unsupported...

    "These words do not mean what you think they mean.  These people don't "lose their insurance," they gain insurance through other means (exchanges, Medicaid, CHIP, etc.).  This does not even mean that employers drop coverage, it just means that in the new mix of the newly insured, in aggregate, fewer are covered through their employers, even though more people are covered."

    ...meaning it is not backed by link(s) to substantial authoritative sources, which is understandable given that it is another Obamapologist's distortion of the truth. 

    No cigar, and no $100.


    I'm happy to debate whether AA is more arrogantly ignorant or ignorantly arrogant... but a LIAR?? 

    What a punk. Somebody oughtta toss Ole Iron Arse here outta the bar.

    ​Now, back to more serious matters. See, why AA is more ignorantly arrogant than arrogantly ignorant is..... mumble mumble blah blah blah. 


    This statement by Destor is unsupported...

    "These words do not mean what you think they mean.  These people don't "lose their insurance," they gain insurance through other means (exchanges, Medicaid, CHIP, etc.).  This does not even mean that employers drop coverage, it just means that in the new mix of the newly insured, in aggregate, fewer are covered through their employers, even though more people are covered."

    ...meaning it is not backed by link(s) to substantial authoritative sources, which is understandable given that it is another Obamapologist's distortion of the truth. 

    No cigar, and no $100.


    Weak!

    Bruce, if you flat out misread something there are not going to be "authoritative sources" explaining why Iron Bolt Bruce doesn't understand what he's talking about. The same, by the way, is pretty much true for any of us as none of us are the subject (yet) of deep literary criticism or political analysis.

    I caught you in a clear mistake of comprehension.  You should be honest enough to admit when your own reasoning is faulty.  We all make mistakes.  I appended corrections to my last two blogs posts in response to comments from people here.  Now, it's your turn.

    You know, I'd let you out of the hundred bucks just to hear you say, "oops."


    Our requirement for the $100.00 payment has always been that (a) the error in fact you assert is attributable to us, and (b) you support your assertion by link(s) to substantial authoritative support.  In this instance, neither requirement has been met.  I will say no more about this, as no more needs be said.


    Wait, you don't read comments... according to you.  You certainly have followed this thread closely.

    I realize that you black PR folks never admit mistakes, never report actual facts, never link to a "substantial authoritative source" in your PR.

    You've become convinced you are the only one who sees things ever so clearly while the rest of us, we just haven't seen the light yet.

    Hahaha, right back at you dude.


    Well, Dan Kervick did the homework, linking to the very same CBO report you cited (look a couple of comments down thread).

    So, what's it going to be?

    I'll accept an admission of error from you and let the money go. Times is tough.

    If, however, you want to really stand up for your integrity, I would accept you sending the $100 to either me or Dan.

    If you send it to me, I will ask Dan how he wants me to spend or invest it and will abide by his decision.

    Your court, Bruce.  Your choice will reveal your character.


    The authoritative statement comes from the very same source Bruce cited for his original numbers – the CBO.  Bruce’s quote comes from this document:

    http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43090

    … which is based in turn on the following more lengthy analysis:

    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-15-ACA_and_Insurance_2.pdf

    See Table 2 at the end of the above document, including the lines for the number of uninsured people among the non-elderly population (expected to go way down), and the insured share of people among the non-elderly population (expected to go way up).  It is obvious that the CBO’s projections of a decrease in the number of people relying on employer-based insurance are of a piece with their projections of dramatic increases in the numbers of people relying on other forms of insurance, including CHIP, Medicaid and the exchanges.


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