Michael Maiello's picture

    Afghanistan Forever

    There's a little fight brewing between a couple of media lights -- Joe Klein of Time is angry that Ed Schultz of MSNBC held up a sign that said "get out now," during a segment the two did about Afghanistan.  Joe found the action, the sentiment and the policy idea to be trivializing.  The two have traded barbs ever since and you can read Joe's latest recap here.

    I'm intrigued by this not because of the fight (frankly, I don't care) but because I am a "get out now" believer and yet I don't feel I'm being thoughtless, irresponsible or trivializing.  I acknowledge that getting out now has some costs.  There will be a humanitarian toll in Afghanistan including much violence and social chaos.  We'll have to contain both Afghanistan and Pakistan from afar.  History may judge us for not meeting our moral obligations to the citizens of a country we invaded.  But there would also be benefits.  Our soldiers would not be at risk.  Our military can rest and be available for more important missions.  We could spend less money in the region.  The American people are largely ready to be done with this.

    I think that you can honestly come to the "get out now" conclusion without oversimplifying anything.  It has trade offs.  So does Joe's plan where we stay for another year and then start drawing down.  We would still be spending money that is better spent at home, our soldiers could die, a year from now a year might not seem like it was enough time.  He believes that his point of view, former over multiple visits to the region, is better thought out than mine.  I think they're just different.  There's a lot of uncertainty in this and the best plans from my withdrawal to his slow trickle out to a right wing plan to increase troop levels and try to win the thing all have points in their favor and demerits.

    What I object to is the dismissal of "get out now" as somehow less thoughtful, honest or responsible than other ideas about what to do.  Say I'm wrong if you must, but don't dismiss the argument.  My major reason for favoring an immediate withdrawal in the face of other costs is mission creep.  Every year we stay seems to mean we have to stay another year.  In Kabul yesterday Joe Biden promises that "If the Afghan people want it, we won't leave in 2014."  That is disturbing.

    For one thing, it's not the Afghan people who should be deciding where we garrison our troops.  That should probably be up to the Americans who are paying for it (or will when the bills come due).  Aren't these also the people who largely don't even know why we invaded in the first place

    Every time we put off the withdrawal, we risk staying forever.  That's what the evidence of recent history shows.  I know that some of you, for quite thoughtful and cogent reasons, disagree with me about the need for an immediate withdrawal.  I can live with that. But let's not pretend that any side of this debate has a monopoloy on rationality and responsibility.  We're in an incredibly tough bind.  Usually, when we're talking about the use of force, we say "all options are on the table."  In this case all options has to include withdrawal, whether or not that's what we ultimately choose.

    Comments

    Oh your outfit, I so love it, I really do, that belt just does it for me.. I am here to ask a serious question though, why does your stuff turn up in the readerblog section now? But the other Dagbloggers stuff doesn't, are you both a readerblogger and dagblogger because of your outfit, or is there something going on with the software? Maybe you are a dual citizen of Dag.. which is interesting and I want to know more about that, I too am a dual citizen, but of different countries not blog land? Does it require a valid passport?

    Hahahahaha! No I am not here to comment on Afghanistan.  We will be leaving there, just not when bloggers want us to leave, unless of couse a Republican is elected in '12, then we will never leave. Oh crap, I commented on Afghanistan, sorry!!!


    Because I'm a big dummy and I keep hitting the wrong button.


    Is it because the belt is so heavy?


    Partly.  But also because I have to hold up the belt while trying to find my boa.


    Flanked

    M


    Tanked.


    We're both right!

    I have to remind myself from time to time that all the military actions this century leads back to Iran.  And I still wonder whose wars we are really fighting.  


    Me too.  It's tempting to say Israel but it's not just that.  It's probably mostly the House of Saud.


    You're right on. You can bet that this has been in the plan for a long time.  And I am not saying that just because I am Persian and fear for my family and friends there. Also,  I hope I am wrong.


    Notably absent from your well put set of reasons to get out now:

    We will no longer be incinerating innocents (including, of course, women and children).

    Also:

    <You don't tug on Superman's cape..."<,/a.>

    Prez is right when hs says that the finest fighting force in history is in Afghanistan.

    Unfortunately, it's the force we are fighting against.


    Good point.  I'd also add that whatever humanitarian attrocities that might happen after we leave were happening before we got there and have been happening while we've been there, so it's a weak reason to hang around.


    There is something to be said for not being the actual proximate cause of an atrocity, even if we have, without peradventure, bought into substantial remote liability, if only by installing that odious toady Karzai.


    I want us out. Dems just four years ago wanted us out of Iraq and we are still there.

    Oh Afghanistan was the good war.

    When the SOB is in Pakistan?

    We watched the Russians fight there for years upon years and we learn nothing, nothing except the Masters of War who make a bundle.

    damn!!!


    So much for "well, he's stuck in a cave w/no tv or pussy or anything, and can't plot or plan, etc. etc."


    hahahahaha. No pussy?

    Oh yeah I aint getting much myself, but TV FOR CHRISSAKES! hahahaha


    The privations of the insurgent life....


    Sama: "By Allah, I miss my cable...these damned rabbit ears are the instruments of Shaitan..."


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