Dan Kervick's picture

    Barack Obama on What Mitt Romney Does for a Living

    Obama on CBS This Morning, Friday July 13:

    When some people question why I would challenge his Bain record, the point I've made there in the past is, if you're a head of a large private equity firm or hedge fund, your job is to make money," Mr. Obama said. "It's not to create jobs. It's not even to create a successful business - it's to make sure that you're maximizing returns for your investor. Now that's appropriate. That's part of the American way. That's part of the system. But that doesn't necessarily make you qualified to think about the economy as a whole, because as president, my job is to think about the workers. My job is to think about communities, where jobs have been outsourced.

    So Obama's view is that being the head of a hedge fund, devoted to the mere making of money for investors even in ways that do not create anything productive like jobs and a successful business is an appropriate way of life.  Nothing wrong with it.  It's just part of the American Way; part of our system.

    You buy a productive business that others have built and that employs hundreds or thousands of people, dismantle it into pieces, throw the employees out on the street, sell the pieces, pocket the profits from the sale, and buy your wife some new horsies?   Totally appropriate, says Barack Obama.

    Now I do think there is something wrong with that way of life.  It is parasitical and greedy.  It is not an appropriate way to live at all.  If is is part of the American Way to create income streams for indolent "investors" out of the work output of other people, and to dispose of those people as one wishes for a profit without any personal concern for finding new work and livelihoods for them, then I think the American Way should be changed.

    But Barack Obama doesn't believe this, which is why I find his latest populist campaign gimmick unconvincing.

    Comments

    I'm more offended by the pompous vanity of the 2nd construction - because Obama did some neighborhood organizing, he knows how to think about workers where jobs have been outsourced.

    Except that he favored banks over the unemployed in determining his stimulus. He favored the banks over those unemployed when they came for the unemployed's houses. From what I call, supporting GMAC & Cerberus / Chrysler Financial to get 100% on the dollar was prime requirement of the bailout (taxpayers still own 70% of GMAC now Allied, something like $11 billion, as it just failed its stress tests, and lost about $1.6 billion on Chrysler). He favored pharma and health insurance companies when devising the "universal health care". And he still signed questionable free trade agreements with South Korea and Colombia that seem to hurt worker conditions and lose jobs to outsourcing.

    As for hedge funds, I've been on the ugly side of tech for some time - companies that can't compete, have interesting ideas, but hard to turn them around even with better management or new technology. Sometimes they can be merged, parts of the tech integrated with viable parts of other companies to create more viable companies. And then sometimes there are companies that really just need a source of funding to hit their next big stride. And then sometimes companies just passed their shelflife, and the only humane thing to do is dismantle them.

    But it's a huge salad, and I think it's ridiculous to say that hedge funds are purely devoted to making money - of course that's their major goal, but they're generally functioning on an angle, whether improving management efficiency, identifying & funding the "next big thing", finding ripe companies with a lot of cash on hand to pocket it, figuring out the right tax angles for client portfolios, finding company synergies, etc. 

    One of the reasons the US market continues to grow is because of easier access to capital, and while the theft in the system needs to be wrung out, 

    As ugly as strategy #3 is, it's taking advantage of a certain level of financial mismanagement or incompetence, not that it can't be looked at better from a shark's angle as rather immoral and adding nothing in productivity, only encouraging short-sighted fear and lock-ins.

    However, much of the business Romney was involved in should have been simply illegal - underfunding obligations, breaking contracts, sticking pensions on the taxpayer if the pensions were covered at all.

    At the same time, what was the auto bailout but a loaded restructuring with workers taking their pay and benefits cuts. ($14 per hour for new workers? and these aren't guys sweeping the floor - those jobs were outsourced long ago). While Wall Street execs & traders kept their bonuses - too important to fail.

    Even if there's no hedge fund, many companies do the same thing internally - HP in the middle of a gut-wrenching reorganization now after betting on too many wrong horses the last couple years, Blackberry trying to stave off extinction, other companies selling off or shutting down certain divisions etc. Some of this is done under foolish instructions from shortsighted investors & CEOs, some of it is done from a realistic recognition of market competition and failure to perform or need for cash - short-term or long-term.

    Anyway, I hate the soundbites, and I think they still miss what's wrong with Romney, even if they seem to be successful with potential voters.


    Regardless of one's views on what is acceptable or appropriate or healthy income and wealth inequality in our society, it is clear that hedge funds can become so big that their failure can potentially trigger catastrophic domino effects affecting the rest of a, or several, societies.  They do not operate in anything like a transparent way--that is part of their appeal to their investors.  So it is basically impossible for anyone in authority, presumably the federal government, to monitor what they are doing and what risks they may be creating for an entire economy. 

    The story of Long-Term Capital Management in the late 1990s, told by Roger Lowenstein in When Genius Failed, should be amply suggestive on that point of what can happen. 

    For this reason alone, it seems to me they need to be regulated.


    Although unlikely to penetrate the Obamanot cloud that you are always immersed within, in saying 'now that's appropriate' Obama referred to the immediately previous phrase 'maximize returns for investors'.

    Before that, Obama's description of hedge funds managers 'job' to 'make money', 'not to create jobs', 'not even to create a successful business' clearly indicated Obama was not 'OK' with hedge funds. Obama has also proposed raising taxes on them, which is a big reason they despise him.


    I say it's bullshit.

    A hedge fund is a fund that can take both long and short positions, use arbitrage, buy and sell undervalued securities, trade options or bonds, and invest in almost any opportunity in any market where it foresees impressive gains at reduced risk. Hedge fund strategies vary enormously -- many hedge against downturns in the markets -- especially important today with volatility and anticipation of corrections in overheated stock markets. The primary aim of most hedge funds is to reduce volatility and risk while attempting to preserve capital and deliver positive returns under all market conditions.

    Obama putting money into solar is not incredibly different from a hedge fund putting money into solar, only the metrics will be a bit different - the hedge fund needs short-term financial returns or an obvious improvement in company's market position, while Obama's more interested in gross vertical viability and competitiveness of the sector as a whole - which tends to be measured in sales and growth. 

    Most hedge funds are trying to help create successful businesses, but they learn to cut the risk by taking out money up front and leveraging fees for the bottom line. In the sense that Obama's helping businesses, his "hedge fund" gets paid via tax revenues. The measure between jobs and net profit are a bit different, but they're both ways of saying "the companies grew, prospered". And of course offshored jobs don't count towards the US economy, except where they create follow-on domestic revenue and jobs, while offshore profits don't affect the US economy until (if) they're repatriated.

    Nevertheless, we've seen a lot of the big funds act absolutely criminal - during Romney's time sure, but it seems to have gotten more brazen the last few years - such as the recent divulged manipulation of LIBOR. And they seem to have government running interference for them to do these shady deals. Bush set the standard for government being absolutely forgiving to craven predatory capitalism, and it's continued.

    But instead of making it clear what nasty line Romney crossed, gutting workers' retirement and just stripping out cash, we're instead just promoting an "investors bad, don't produce anything" mentality. But half the guys I know are looking for an investor to come in and buy them out - that's how the startup game works - a lot of work up front with a good idea, looking for the golden exit.

    But with Obama also not having a strong resume on the creating jobs front, it's a bit dangerous turf for him to dwell on the jobs figures.


    My issue is employment.  Private sector capitalism is always going to exhibit creative destruction.  But there are different approaches to managing the dislocation.  One is to have a public sector full employment program that absorbs people that the private sector has left unemployed, and puts them gainfully to work fulfilling the myriad public needs that are never adequately satisfied.  We could have a public enterprise system that exists alongside the private enterprise system.  As the private sector expands again, people can be released from public sector back to the public sector.

    The other approach is to let them fall into a half-assed "safety net" of social inferiority and subsistence income, and then leave them on their own to hustle and scrape after private sector jobs.

    I take it Obama continues to support the latter approach.


    If the economy's doing well, a 3/4-assed safety net and a quickly revolving door for creative destruction/restoration can do well. When all the institutions fail, this is no longer an option.

    (At one point Holland was quite good for a dole that let some be creative on a pittance, providing social good, while the economy seemed to sustain better jobs. They did seem to cut back on social subsistence though - whether truly from abuse or traditional right-wing complaints, not sure, but I do think there ended up a bit too much freeloading to sustain)


    Well sure.  But that's like saying that when the country is not at war, having only 10,000 guys in uniform and a few Coast Guard cutters patrolling the shores is good enough, and it only becomes a problem when the country is attacked.

    The history of capitalism is a history of built-in instability, periodic crises and economic disasters.  The structural problems of capitalism can't be fixed all at once, but when a crisis occurs progressives look to use the opportunity of the fear and desperation and misery to push for significant structural reforms, so we can avoid repetitions of that kind of fear, desperation and misery in the future.  The crisis is also a period when we find out which side people are on, and whom they turn to for advice and political support.  Do they seize the day to change the world, or do they position themselves as the guardians of the established order bent on making sure we get as little structural change as possible?


    What, you got something against the Coast Guard? ;-)

    I think I was relatively agreeing, as much as I hate to be agreeable.


    But instead of making it clear what nasty line Romney crossed, gutting workers' retirement and just stripping out cash, we're instead just promoting an "investors bad, don't produce anything" mentality.

    I agree.  One of the biggest problems with Marx's analysis of capitalism is that on his view the only people who produce anything of value are the line workers.  Whereas it should not take a whole lot of reflection to grasp that people who are putting up money to get an enterprise started where they have no guarantee of a return--undertaking real, not heads-I-win-tails-you-lose "risk", that is--, people who manage and organize an enterprise so that it is able to produce what it produces well, and, of course, people who came up with the idea for the new product or service in the first place, for example, are actually contributing a great deal of value. 

    Whether line workers, the worker bees who are "doing the work" of enterprises, are being fairly compensated relative to such others who are contributing value, and whether the current degree of inequality is dysfunctional for our economy, are different questions.  But regardless of how one answers them, characterizing the other actors--such as managers, entrepreneurs, investors per se--as people who are purely and simply leeching off of line workers, the latter of whom, alone, are supposedly doing "real work" and contributing value, is off base.

    I've not extensively studied Marx so if I put up a straw man here, am glad to be corrected.


    It isn't a straw man. Marx felt that capital contributed nothing to production, and I suspect that is Mr. Kervick's view as well. While I'm grateful to Marx for explaining that labor has value, he got this one wrong.

    As for the history of capitalism being a history of "economic disasters", democratic capitalism has produced the highest living standards for the largest number of people.


    Apologies if I missed it, but is this your first post here, Aaron?  If so, welcome to dagblog.


    I believe capital certainly contributes to production.  My concern is more with the degree to which we rely on the system of private ownership, and the way those ownership claims are used to determine who receives the returns from the value that is added by production.


    I also want people to get equitable returns on their labor, Dan, which would mean--at the least--the minimum necessary for what their society considers a decent living. The failures of socialism leave me with no clear idea of how it is to be done, but I don't think doing away with private ownership will fix things.

    Thanks, Dreamer; that was actually my third post.


    Well, if I had said anything about "doing away with private ownership", I suppose this would be a relevant comment. But since I only raised the issue of the degree to which we rely on private ownership, it's not.


    I don't think you are putting up a straw man but some distinctions should be considered.

    Marx didn't say any work that lead to the production of a commodity was more or less real. If the entrepreneur he refers to as the master of the system of production also involves themselves with how the thing is made, that participation doesn't change the value of the product within a specific system of exchange. Das Capital has been extensively criticized for its attempt to provide a comprehensive theory of the price of things. If the book(s) fall short in that regard then it must be read with the understanding that Marx is not assigning the "real" value of each bit of effort that goes into making something but demonstrating that the exchange value turns all people involved with the production into commodities themselves.

    Marx is not saying the owner always benefits despite doing no work. The idea is that the owner becomes wealthy only because he is shortchanging other people more than he is being shortchanged.

    If you want to read about lazy entrepreneurs, I suggest a round of Veblen.

     


    Well, there was never any reason to expect that Obama would reject shareholder capitalism. Hedge funds and private equity are part of that. I think. Makes a good point, though, that investment managers and business waders are not especially qualified for public service. Serving shareholders is not the same thing as serving society. Perhaps this is an obvious point. But, it's a point we've been missing for awhile now.


    What does it matter if people like Obama think that people like Romney are not equipped to run government, when the former think the latter are equipped to run the economic system that dominates the government anyway?


    Serving shareholders is not the same thing as serving society.

    Obviously this is the mantra of our current roster of bankers and other financiers. 

    But, it's not a requirement for a successful form of capitalism nor I believe a mandate supported by President Obama.  IMO - It can and needs to be done in tandem, ensuring both society and shareholders benefit long term.


    True or False: CEO's and Boards of Directors of publicly held corporations have a legal duty to maximize shareholder wealth?

    I have, incorrectly I learned this weekend from Lynn Stout's very short and excellent 2012 book The Shareholder Value Myth, believed that to be correct and stated it as such.  I stand corrected.  Stout demolishes a number of other false beliefs about corporations associated with the shareholder value belief structure, such as that, as Milton Friedman claimed in 1970, shareholders "own" corporations.  Of greater potential interest to investors and policymakers, she also reviews several types of evidence suggesting that shareholder-wealth maximization policies, facilitated by a number of policy changes over the past 2 or 3 decades, have not led to better results--for shareholders themselves, let alone other corporate stakeholders. 

    Stout points out that shareholders are individual people or institutional investors who have widely varying interests and desires, which are often mutually incompatible.  The "shareholder value" philosophy which has been dominant in our society for several decades now (but was not always so) as reflecting the true purpose of public corporations is based on a notion of a single, "Platonic ideal" type of shareholder whose interest is solely in today's market price of a corporation's equity.  Whereas real shareholders have different time frames, different degrees of diversification, different attitudes towards sacrificing personal wealth to follow ethical rules and avoid harming others, etc.  As she writes,"conventional shareholder value thinking reconciles different shareholders' conflicting desires by simply assuming the conflicts away."

    Reading it prompted me to reflect on where/how I acquired the belief about Board/CEO legal duty to maximize shareholder wealth. 

    One likely possibility, although this is going back a long time now--is the Corporations Law course I took at the University of Chicago circa 1984, which happened to be taught by Dan Fischel.  Fischel is co-author of a leading 1991 "law and economics" textbook that takes this point of view.  IF he taught this view as reflecting the state of the law at that time, as opposed to his personal preference on what the law should be--and it's a long time ago so I don't know that that was the case--then I and many fellow students over the years were badly served by him. 

    Marjorie Kelly, in her book The Divine Right of Capital, a book I admire, apparently also stated this as a correct statement of current law.  So that could have been another source.  But, really, that view appears to be so widespread that I or others mistaken about this might have gotten that belief from any number of sources.

    Of much clearer direct relevance to the subject of this thread, Stout cites an empirical study of activist hedge funds by Bill Bratton at the University of Pennsylvania which concludes: "Activist hedge funds look for four things in their targets--potential sale of the whole, potential sale of a part, free cash, and cuttable costs." (p. 69)  (None of which is inconsistent with your comments in the thread, PP.)  Stout is pretty clearly anti-hedge fund, noting negative but no positive effects they have.  She is a law professor, active with many organizations and projects, who would surely be seen by the hedge fund crowd as a corporate director apologist.   

    Bratton article, "Hedge Funds and Corporate Governance", 95 Georgetown Law Review, 2007, is at: http://georgetownlawjournal.org/files/pdf/95-5/BRATTON.pdf  From the closing part of the abstract:

    Meanwhile, the financial results also show that hedge fund activism is a more benign phenomenon than its critics would have us believe.  Hedge fund interventions neither amount to near-term hold ups nor revive the 1980s leveraged restructuring.  Short term investments are rare.  Large cash payouts have been made by only a minority of the firms surveyed, and borrowing has been the mode of finance in only a minority of the payout cases. 
     

     


    Tx.


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