Barth's picture

    The Big Lie

    It was just so over the top, and so wrongheaded that our usually fractious populace, and the politicians and hangers on who cater to them were, for once, united in their condemnation. After all what the congressman said was just, simply, out of bounds.

    What the congressman said was this:

    And the myopia of the other side, let alone the hypocrisy of some of its members, is hard to fathom.
    ...

    They say it's a government takeover of health care, a big lie. Just like Goebbels ; you say it enough, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, and eventually people believe it. Like blood libel. That's the same kind of thing. The Germans said enough about the Jews and the people believed it and you had the Holocaust. You tell a lie over and over again. And we've heard it on this floor; government takeover of health care.

    PolitiFact, nonpartisan, Pulitzer prize-winning, 2009, St. Petersburg Times, said the biggest lie of 2010 was government takeover of health care, because there is no government takeover. It's insurance.



    You can see just how outrageous it was just by reading it. It is easy to imagine the many people who needed "the vapors" to revive them, after hearing such words. Some congresswoman says

    we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States....

    And I think it is high time that we recognize the contribution of our forbearers [sic] who worked tirelessly -- men like John Quincy Adams, who would not rest until slavery was extinguished in the country



    while another political figure who was once nominated to serve as Vice President of the United States explains that "the Sputnik moment" that many of us remember as the catalyst for the development of a apace program that led to our landing men on the moon slightly more than a decade later and increased spending to educate more scientists and the research that led to the technological breakthroughs which have marked our time, in facts stands for a race to space that the Russians


    won, but also incurred so much debt at the time that it resulted in the inevitable collapse of the Soviet Union.



    but really it is Steve Cohen, the man with a political opponent who suggested he not be elected since Jews hate Christians who has poisoned our political discourse.

    And, of course, he and Politifact are wrong. The lies about a government "takeover" of health care, while as asinine a claim there is, and one which was repeated in Republican campaign commercials every hour on the hour during October last, were not, and cannot be the lie of the year.

    It is this one: constantly repeated every single day, by sages on televisions throughout the land:

    The budget deficit must be cut and cut now. We will rue the day, if we do not reduce the deficit immediately.

    Here, for instance, are the famed Nobel Laureates in Economics: Dr. Joe Scarborough of the University of Talk Louder than Anyone Else on Set, and Professor Michael Barnicle of The Institution of Higher Cowering to Conservatives so Maybe They Will Like Me:

    SCARBOROUGH:

    I'm very disturbed by the president actually bragging about increasing spending while Greece and Portugal and Spain and Ireland go up in flames and moody's saying we could be next.... if you look it at the front page of the New York Times" yesterday talking about the states going up in flames in debt, if you see what's happening in spain, is spain going to collapse?

    What happened in Portugal, what happened in Ireland, what happened in Greece, what's happening in America where you have Moody's saying they're going to downgrade our AAA rating, which is going to mean 5 trillion, instead of being historically low rates will be at high rates.

    5 trillion debt becomes a $20 trillion debt just like that and it cripples the united states.

    Mike, this is basic math.

    This is basic banking.

    BARNACLE:

    You know what, maybe members of Congress, individual members of Congress, and maybe even the President of the United states, should take one month off from listening to focus groups and reading polls and spend more time with an averageAamerican family to see how they balance their checkbook month to month and what they do is what this Congress and past Congresses have been unable to do.

    Figure out what they can afford and what they can't afford.

    Because average American families can't put bills off into the distance for too long.

    We all have to make those decisions.

    You had to choose am I going to buy a mink lined sink or aim am I going to get the leather jacket.



    So, aside from these two laureates, there appear to be no other economists who find this analogy to be apt. The idea that, for instance, your family should not radically cut back its expenditures at a local restaurant since to do so might put the restaurant out of business or at least cost some of its employees their income is, of course, ludicrous. The government has a different role and obligation.

    Try this from people who have greater expertise in this, than the consistently broke blogger, if you continue to believe that Professors Scarborough and Barnacle were doing anything but wasting the morning away.

    More importantly, away from the bloviation machinery (including the one we are both using right now), this is well understood. After Vice President Cheney famously explained that deficits don't matter, an article in the Weekly Standard (not to be confused with the Daily Worker) explained, with unusual cogency why he was probably right at least when the government is "teetering on the verge of a major recession."

    Now that we are way past "verge" and perhaps major recession doesn't really say it, the preferred economist to make the same point, Paul Krugman, has pointed out often, that with a


    a depressed economy and high unemployment...[w]hat the government should be doing ... is spending more while the private sector is spending less, supporting employment while those debts are paid down. And this government spending needs to be sustained: we’re not talking about a brief burst of aid; we’re talking about spending that lasts long enough for households to get their debts back under control. The original Obama stimulus wasn’t just too small; it was also much too short-lived, with much of the positive effect already gone.



    So, as oddly dissonant it may seem when people tell us about the evils of our deficit while giving tax breaks to the wealthy, it is not. The Republican Party which nominated and elected President Reagan has had one over-riding goal: to undo the New Deal and return the United States to the eat what you can kill economy that President Roosevelt inherited as it lay in the ditch, careening toward the anarchy and dictatorships already in sight in the rest of the civilized world.

    But it was a world which, as President Roosevelt described it while seeking his first re-election, where

    [t]hrough new uses of corporations, banks and securities, new machinery of industry and agriculture, of labor and capital - all undreamed of by the Fathers - the whole structure of modern life was impressed into this royal service.

    There was no place among this royalty for our many thousands of small-businessmen and merchants who sought to make a worthy use of the American system of initiative and profit. They were no more free than the worker or the farmer. Even honest and progressive-minded men of wealth, aware of their obligation to their generation, could never know just where they fitted into this dynastic scheme of things.

    It was natural and perhaps human that the privileged princes of these new economic dynasties, thirsting for power, reached out for control over government itself. They created a new despotism and wrapped it in the robes of legal sanction. In its service new mercenaries sought to regiment the people, their labor, and their property. And as a result the average man once more confronts the problem that faced the Minute Man.

    The hours men and women worked, the wages they received, the conditions of their labor - these had passed beyond the control of the people, and were imposed by this new industrial dictatorship. The savings of the average family, the capital of the small-businessmen, the investments set aside for old age - other people's money - these were tools which the new economic royalty used to dig itself in.



    The New Deal was intended to enlist the government against these forces instead of supporting them but in a curious way would end up making business even better, since it helped create a middle class with buying power far beyond what anyone could have imagined as President Roosevelt took office in March, 1933.

    Still, a segment of the world ended by the New Deal always pined for its return. They took over the Republican Party dismembered by Watergate and set on their course to put us back to the good old days before that patrician from Hyde Park took their measure.

    Hence, their chosen Representative to "respond" to the President's State of the Union address---a speech pointing a way forward (please watch Rachel Maddow's summary of what it meant), went right after the whole structure erected by the New Deal to forever protect our citizens from the predations that nearly destroyed the nation but which they derisively refer to as "entitlement programs."

    Programs to invest in what we need to do to move successfully into the new century, Congressman Paul Ryan said, will

    transform our social safety net into a hammock, which lulls able-bodied people into lives of complacency and dependency.



    So, there it is. In black and white. At least we are going to be candid about what the plan is; a significant achievement. Congressman Ryan's speech just confirmed how right Dr. Krugman was when he explained a year ago, that the deficit is killing us meme---which the beltway press have adopted as their own mantra as well--- results in

    all the talk ... about how to shave a few billion dollars off government spending, while there’s hardly any willingness to tackle mass unemployment. Policy is headed in the wrong direction — and millions of Americans will pay the price.



    The almost unreadable but spot on book What's the Matter with Kansas explained how all the culture war stuff fooled the easily misled into supporting politicians out to hurt them for the benefit of the fat cats who supported them, but the repetition of their nonsense by supposed news dispensaries helps more than the abortion is evil rant (which has, you will notice, returned). The point is that no matter how ridiculous something is, if you repeat it often enough, it becomes accepted as true. The most famous and effective use of this technique was...


    oh, yeh. Never mind. Not allowed to say that.

    Comments

    And yet there is hope. I snapped a picture of this at my local Borders. I would have never thought that these items would be on display here.


    Okay good blog. Dr. Joe Scarborough of Talk Louder University... hahahahahahaha, that is perfect. Yes it seems Congressman Cohen took the brunt of the criticism. Although I do think people should dial back the rhetoric on both sides, there is a reality that the congressman speaks when he talks about the big lie. And to be honest Fox News seems to use Nazi analogies every other day when describing democrats and the President, enough so that word seems to have lost the impact it once had. I don't know what do say about the twin moron princesses, can they get any dumber? Yeah probably.

    The "two pincessess," as you put it, will not achieve high office:  I am sure of that, and I wish our side would stop doting on them.  Our dream that she be the Republican nominee ain't going to happen.  What is scary about the two of them is that people coted for them both:  enough to make one the Governor and to send the other one to Congress.  I cannot imagine her winning a Senate race, particularly against Amy Klobuchar, but this is the state that made Jesse Ventura its governor.  They preferred Norm Coleman to Vice President Mondale, but they made up for that with Al Franken.

    And, you know, as for Nazis:  http://edsbarth.blogspot.com/2010/04/mine.html

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Barth, all that you say is true.  A pity that it needs repeating so often.  Your first link--to Thomas--didn't work, so I'm not sure which congressman you're quoting here.

    We've known for almost a century what those people were (and are) up to, and still our "leaders" fall for their crap.  The Fat Cats take money, they spend money, they don't share.  They never have and they never will until they're forced to.  There have been times when they've been called on to share whether they liked it or not, and what happened?  They stayed rich and the rest of us prospered.

    We expect the Republicans to clamor for tax breaks for the wealthy--they're the ones who initiated it in the first place--but what we didn't expect, and what shouldn't have happened is Obama and the Dems reneging on their promise to repeal them. 

    They lost the argument about easing the deficit when they continued the tax breaks for everyone.  Anyone seriously concerned with the deficit would be looking to the war machine as well as the money lost because the greedy refuse to pay their fair share.  It seems it's the least they could do, considering the profits they're making came from shutting the working class out.


    The Congressman is Steve Cohen of Tennessee.  I didn't realize that THOMAS links time out so quickly.  I'll try to fix it with a link to the actual Congressional Record simply because it emphasizes how ridiculous that it is that his little comment got so much attention.  The right is so eager to show that they are not the only extremists that they jump on hiccups, which, frankly, I barely see as worth note, and, quite on point and very true.

     

    Krugman's book made the point well that by the end of World War II, the bulk of both parties had realized what the New Deal did to save our economy and, perhaps, our country.  Even when the GOP took control of the House after the 1946 elections and later in 1956, they did not try to roll back anything.  Then President Carter made his big poo poo mess trying to be all things to all people and made Reaganism possible,  The rest, honestly, is the worst period in our history since, well, since the 1920s into 1932.

    I do not agree that anyone reneged on a promise.  They could not repeal the cuts on the wealthy without the rest of us getting hit and, at the moment, that would not be very helpful to a struggling economy.  I could think of other ways of dealing with this, but I am sitting on a couch at home and not  face to face with these jackasses.  (I meant to say, "poorly informed people.")

     


    Obama did renege on the tax cut repeal.  They were set to expire in December and with a little muscle, they could have.  As I understand it, it was separate from the tax cuts for everyone else, since it was added specifically for the wealthy by the Bushies.  Yes, they got an unemployment extension and a few other bones by giving in, but they came into office promising to repeal the "tax cuts for the wealthy" and they didn't do it. 

    Think of what an image-maker it would have been if they had forced a stand-off.  The Dems would finally appear to be getting it, and the Republicans couldn't have added yet another victory to their list. 

    I grew up in the 50s, when anyone who wanted a job could get one.  Times were good.  We made things. China made cheap goods that barely made a dent, and our jobs stayed here in this country.  I'm not sure I would blame Carter for the rise of Reagan (Though I'll blame him for a lot of other things.). 

    Ronnie's first term might have been a fluke but there was no godly reason for him to have served a second term.  Everything was going wrong; the middle class was already losing out, the poor were losing even more, but the Republicans cannily avoided the issues and went with Reagan's supposed popularity and Everything's coming up Roses.  Happy times!

    The Republicans understand PR and imagery much better than the Democrats ever will.  When the Dems think they're going to lose the battle, they retreat.  When the Republicans think they might lose a battle, they bluff.  No blood drawn and they win.


    In a sense you understand it wrong.  They were not passed as seperate cuts.  The whole thing was an across the board set of tax cuts which Congress passed in the halcyon days after their Supreme Court put their candidate in office and before Septemeber 11 Changed Everything. 

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A818...

    The idea to limit them was a Democratic one and required affirmative action by Congress.  If it did not do anything the 2001 legislation would have expired and taxes on everyone would have returned to 2001 levels.  Not a bad idea; actually the right thing to do, but not now, during a recession with such high unemployment.

    To enact such legislation requires, as we now understand, the sixty Senate votes required to invoke cloture. 

    As stand off would have meant a tax rise for everyone and the balme would have been placed squarely on the President, who had just been "shellacked."

    It pains me to say it as I am sure it pained the President to do it, but he had no choice.  He could not risk the harm to the hostages.  When one party is irresponsible, responsible people almost always have to give in.

     

     

     

     

     

     


    History is in the minds of the beholders. hahahaha

    No wonder you liked my blogs. hahahahaha

    They fit much more reasonably into your message.

    Wonderful

    Barth, a thousand years from now, the genius of FDR will be lauded in the most wonderful historical tomes.

    I frankly, after reading so much in this era. am totally ignorant of how he did it.

    I mean I would conclude that WWII was the medium in which he worked his policies.

    But damn!!! He was elected three times before it ever began!!

    And that underlines the genius of LBJ whom I despised lo these many years. That damn Vietnam War!!!

    Oh well thank you for this and I shall return later. You are sure getting a better reaction than I did with three of these blogs.

    Mostly because you put the ideas together so beautifully!!


    Were those Barnicle's own thoughts or plagiarized ?

    Again..


    I did not want to go there since I thought his "sin" was barely that, and hardly the basis for the Globe to dump a columnist whose work I have often loved.

    The tv version of Barnacle, especially the one who appears on the Republican Show (MSNBC calls it something else, but I am not bound by that) is pitiful.  A man who has frequently written about the evils of groupthink just turns, as if a chameleon, into one of them, parrotting their garbage and never taking Them (or, generally, Joe) on.

    I frequently head off to work ready to scream.

     

     


    An excellent post indeed!  I especially like your use of Rep. Cohen's quite appropriate identification of the Republican strategy not just on the healthcare bill but on everything: the big lie.  You'll notice all he did was point out the very clear truth that the Republican use this technique every day and with it's successful use over time have come to rely more and more upon the big lie since our citizens don't support their positions on the issues with deceiving them with respect to the causes of our national problems and what the appropriate solutions might be.  Yet, John Stewart along with many others in the mainstream media completely misrepresented Cohen's statements as equating the Republicans with or otherwise calling them Nazi's when that simply was not true.  He merely pointed out that they routinely use that tactic first identified and used on a widespread basis by the Nazi Party in Germany long ago.  That is not even close to calling them Nazi's or equating them to Nazi's.

    The rest of the essay hits the nail on the head and leaves no room for ambiguity nor for any fence sitting.  It is easy to choose the side of this battle that is good and that will benefit the common people of this country.  The wonder is why so many of our Democratic elected and appointed officials are choosting to shy away from the side of good and instead either joining the the forces of darkness openly or by aiding them through their silence or via "compromises" that provide no advantage to the good guys... only to the bad guys.


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