The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    NOW I GET IT

    By Flavius on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 9:47am |

    Wisconsin had to abolish the public sector employees' right to collective bargaining ( and really to unionization) because the State couldn't afford it. And could do that in a bill not requiring a 20 member quorum because it had no fiscal implications.

    I see. 

    And the voters should see.

    Whatever the tactical argument until now for the Administration to stay on the side lines and let the democratic senators carry the ball, now it's time, more than time, for Obama to say Which Side We Are On.

    He should himself address the importance to a free enterprise society ,which is also democratic, for there to be a mechanism for workers and owners to reach agreement without suffocating governmental intervention. The fact that this cardinal change in our established procedures was effected by Walker's tawdry 'now it's fiscal , now it isn't' ploy simply illustrates the frivolity with which he has treated this fundamental part of our unwritten consensus.

    Comments

    Obama has no dog in the fight...10th Amendment thingy kicks in here. Neither he or Congress has much to say unless they reach across the border and it becomes a commerce issue I believe. It's up to the public in Wisconsin to do something if they're not happy with the Governor and his fellow GOPer's. But they elected him to office knowing full well what he did prior to kill of police unions or something similar and privatize to the service to Wackenhut in Milwaukee I believe so it's their own fault if he tricked them.


    by Beetlejuice on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 10:46am

    No doubt you're  right in your constitutional analysis. Thanks.

    But whatever the legality, I think that's the wrong answer.

     Obama also has a responsibility as Preacher of State. . If the constitution delegates the action  to the citizens of each state, it's not enough for him to  stand on the side lines saying  'oh dear, I wish they'd support collective bargaining, too bad I can't have any influence on that.'


    by Flavius on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 11:07am

    One facet of the challenge Obama or any president faces in this matter is that federal employees don't have the right to collective bargain.  So Obama would have to fly into Madison and demand that the public employees in Wisconsin be given the right to do what those employees he oversees do not have.

    (And it is interesting that I heard one conservative pundit this morning say that Obama instigated the whole "mob scene" at the capitol building with his support of the public employees.)


    by Elusive Trope on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 11:56am

    The obvious solution being ...

    he should fly in and demand that state and federal employees get collective bargaining rights.

    But that of course is unthinkable. Because then the GOP could tar him as - horror of horrors - a supporter of unions.


    by Obey on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 12:11pm

    Yeah that's the reason.  Whatever.


    by Elusive Trope on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 12:50pm

    I think the whole conceit that there exists any 'unwritten consensus' really needs to be thrown out.

    I thought the whole run-away-from-quorum-votes strategy itself was pretty contrary to the unwritten rules of legislative civility. AND I thought that was a good thing. FINALLY the Dems quit the whole pretense that any kind of unwritten consensus exists with the current GOP party. The rules are just what public opinion will condone, and that itself is a moving target.

    And the Dems won this one in the court of public opinion. But not because the governor managed to pass the bill using this inverse-Byrd rule. It is because the public accepted the unions' argument that the GOP had stepped far beyond their electoral mandate. And, WHY did they accept that argument. Because they saw first-hand the conviction and the confidence with which the union supporters expressed their righteous anger.

    If the public cared about 'unwritten rules' of political ettiquette we wouldn't be where we are, would we...?


    by Obey on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 11:11am

    Dude. You are kicking ass - and with high-class leather.

    I'm with you. A "consensus" implies the other guys "get it" as well. But they not only no longer get it, they mock it. And then they use the fact that the Democrats continue to hold onto this sort of stuff to carve them up. 

    If we value a procedure or a process, that's great. But we need to recognize that if the other guy doesn't value it, and won't play by it, then we're in a different game. 

    Fire-wagon hockey!


    by quinn esq on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 11:39am

    Yup. I think you can only truly understand politics if you grew up watching the Habs play the Nordiques...


    by Obey on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 12:15pm

    Didn't you mean the Habs and the Hab-nots?  I think the Nordiques is some kind of exercise machine.  I cannot be sure since I seldom watch things like sports and exercise infomercials. 


    by LarryH on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 12:35pm

    yeah


    by Flavius on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 12:20pm

    Where's Obama and his "YES WE CAN" get along?

    Obamas "yes we can"  biparitisan BS

    Obama and his "We need to tone down the anger, BS 

    These Republican dogs, are going for the jugular and we're still trying to coax them with milkbones and treats.  


    by Resistance on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 11:56am

    With the old saw “be careful what you wish for” in mind, I caution “Union worker, beware the Ides of March.”

    (Reuters 3/15/2011: “Obama Visits Wisconsin. Meets With Republicans”)

    President Obama flew to Madison, Wisconsin to meet separately with feuding Republicans and Democrats. The President made a stirring speech to the assembled crowd in Madison’s town center. He emphasized the theme that the union movement was all about cooperation for the greater good and pledged to take that “union spirit” with him to his meetings with Republicans. He then spent several hours in closed door conversations with Republican leaders including Governor Walker. Late this afternoon a White House spokesman reported that the President had “completed another successful compromise with Republicans.” The details were not provided but the spokesman summarized the results. “Governor Walker and the Republicans will be allowed to pass their legislation. The Democratic senators will be allowed to continue to receive their pay checks via direct deposit and therefore will not have to return to the state – ever.


    by LarryH on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 12:26pm

    ouch


    by Flavius on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 12:33pm

    When do we get to stop laughing?  Soon?  It hurts, dag-nabbit!

    Dave Dayen asks one question lots of have been wondering about: Was the bill stripping collective bargaining rights actually a  non-fiscal bill?  Given the raft of reasons Walker gave for the importance of those parts to the budget and future budgets, was the 'bill' even a bill, and was it 'non- fiscal'?

    http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/03/10/wisconsin-confusion-reigns-over-legality-of-anti-union-bill-passage-in-wisconsin/

     


    by we are stardust on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 1:07pm

    Oh good one Larry. Yes, expecting support from soneone who has more in common with the Koch Bros. than an underpaid teacher or overworked paramedic is a little bit mashugana.


    by cmaukonen on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 1:38pm

    From Firedoglake via Lisa B

    • Supreme Court fight. The matchup between David Prosser (R) and JoAnn Kloppenberg (D) for the state Supreme Court on April 5 just got very interesting. It’s a statewide vote, and the balance of power on the state Supreme Court is at stake. Right now there are 4 Republicans and 3 Democrats on the court, but one of those Republicans is Prosser. Expect lots of organizing and millions of dollars poured into this election, which is much like a political election, with debates and everything. If Democrats win, the legality of what took place tonight may be put in greater question.


    by Flavius on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 12:44pm

    Fascinating bit of info. Without knowing how she's been polling, my money's on Kloppenburg, simply on the basis of the enthusiastic GOTV effort that's hers for the taking. Great if fortuitous timing. Go JoAnne!


    by acanuck on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 4:10pm