Police Brutality & Interaction




    submitted by rmrd0000 3 hours ago

    Shortly after four Louisiana State Police troopers allegedly beat a Black man who had surrendered following a high-speed chase, the officers of Troop F sent 14 text messages to brag about the “whoopin’ ” they had given to 29-year-old Antonio Harris, according to court filings.

    “He gonna be sore tomorrow for sure,” trooper Jacob Brown group-texted his colleagues in May, the filings allege.

    “He’s gonna have nightmares for a long time,” trooper Dakota DeMoss allegedly said of what unfolded in Franklin Parish, La.

    “Warms my heart knowing we could educate that young man,” Brown replied.

    The court filings from earlier this month, which were first reported by Sound Off Louisiana, come weeks after four White officers — Brown, DeMoss, George Harper and Randall Dickerson — were arrested on accusations of excessive force, lying about multiple arrests and turning off their body cameras.

    Brown, 30, who faces charges in two other excessive force cases, resigned on Wednesday. DeMoss, 28, and Harper, 26, were placed on administrative leave after an internal investigation concluded that Harris was beaten after he “immediately surrendered.”

    Read the article at https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/13/louisiana-police-black-man-text/

    Interesting that you don't do this when AA gives us one of her homicide updates.

    1) if there's a thread, readers can read the whole intro section *without there being a first comment* (you're welcome)

    2) 4 or 5 articles on 1 topic makes it easy for me to collect in 1 batch even without coffee. "Hey! this looks like another Police Brutality piece!"

    3) no idea what homicide thing, but if you notice AA's brackets, you'll see she already largely knows how to thread.


    submitted by rmrd0000 1 day ago

    In Nigeria, ‘Feminist’ Was a Common Insult. Then Came the Feminist Coalition.

    LAGOS, Nigeria — During the biggest demonstrations in Nigeria’s recent history, 13 women came together to support their fellow citizens risking their lives to march against police brutality.

    The women were all in their 20s and 30s. All at the top of their fields. Many had never met in person. They found one another through social media months before, and named their group the Feminist Coalition. They jokingly called themselves “The Avengers.”

    “We decided that if we don’t step in, the people who suffer the greatest will end up being women,” said Odunayo Eweniyi, a 27-year-old tech entrepreneur and a founding member of the Feminist Coalition.

    They raised hundreds of thousands of dollars last year over crowdfunding websites to support the demonstrators who took to the streets to denounce human rights abuses by a police unit known as the Special Anti-Robbery Squad, or SARS. The Feminist Coalition provided basic services to the protesters: legal aid, emergency health care food, masks, raincoats. But when peaceful protesters were shot by the military, and the demonstrations wound down, the Feminist Coalition did not.

    Now, their sights are set higher. They want equality for Nigerian women, and they are turning their focus to issues like sexual violence, women’s education, financial equality and representation in politics.

    The fight for equality won’t be easy. A Gender and Equal Opportunities Bill, first introduced in 2010, has repeatedly been voted down by Nigeria’s male-dominated Senate.

    And then there’s the matter of being proud feminists, in a country where the word feminist is commonly used as an insult.

    For years, identifying as a feminist in Nigeria has been fraught. The coalition’s decision to use the word in the organization’s name, and the female symbol in their yellow logo, was pointed. Many of the protesters benefiting from their assistance were men — and not all of them had been supportive of women’s rights.

    Read the article at https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/world/africa/nigeria-feminist-coalition.html

    News from London today retweeted by NYC Antifa:


    On the anniversary of Breonna Taylor being murdered by the police in the US, this message from the London vigil for Sarah Everard/protest for women's safety resonates:

    No killers, No cops
    Sisters run the block https://t.co/ufA0TECEhW

    — New York City Antifa (@NYCAntifa) March 13, 2021

    thread of more similar anti-police, videos, pics and comments:


    The Met are London’s biggest and most dangerous gang

    — YT: C’est Chancy (@JesuisChancy) March 13, 2021


    submitted by rmrd0000 1 day ago

    Mayor Ted Wheeler, who’s also the police commissioner, urged City Council to approve the settlement. He cited how whether it’s education or the law, the systems in place often fail young Black and brown men. He asked city officials to consider how they could “improve the public structures and systems that too often are unable to prevent the circumstances that caused us to be here today,” and noted that no amount of money could replace what the family has lost. 

    The county commissioners offered the family an apology while approving the settlement.

    Read the article at https://www.theroot.com/portland-ore-reaches-2-1-million-settlement-with-fa-1846465695


    submitted by rmrd0000 1 day ago

    MINNEAPOLIS — The city of Minneapolis will pay a record $27 million to the family of George Floyd to settle a wrongful-death lawsuit related to his death last May in police custody.

    The payout was approved in a unanimous vote by the Minneapolis City Council on Friday morning in what was a last-minute addition to the agenda of the council’s regular meeting. The settlement would be the highest ever paid by the city of Minneapolis, eclipsing the $20 million paid in 2019 to the family of Justine Damond, who was shot and killed by a Minneapolis police officer in 2017.

    The settlement could have implications for the ongoing criminal trial of Derek Chauvin, the former Minneapolis police officer filmed with his knee on Floyd’s neck last May and who faces multiple murder charges in his death. As jury selection began this week, Eric Nelson, Chauvin’s attorney, sought to block mention of any possible payout by the city to the Floyd family, arguing it would be prejudicial.

    The vote followed an impromptu closed-door session to discuss the civil lawsuit filed against the city and four police officers in the aftermath of Floyd’s death.

    Council president Lisa Bender offered her condolences to Floyd’s family after the vote.

    “No amount of money can ever address the intense pain or trauma caused by this death to George Floyd's family or to the people of our city,” she said. “Minneapolis has been fundamentally changed by this time of racial reckoning and this city council is united in working together with our community, and the Floyd family to equitably reshape our city of Minneapolis.”

    But legal observers questioned if publicity over the settlement, which came on day four of jury selection, could result in a possible mistrial.

    “I think it’s a potential disaster for Chauvin,” said Mary Moriarty, former chief Hennepin County public defender. She said if she were Chauvin’s attorney, she would request a mistrial.

    “The concern is that jurors will be aware that the city gave George Floyd’s family a great deal of money," she Moriarty said. "And I suspect the jurors will have a hard time avoiding the news, even if they try.”

    Nelson did not immediately respond to a request for comment. News of the settlement broke during a lunch break during day four of jury selection in the trial.

    Read the article at https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/12/derek-chauvin-trial-update/

    Justine Diamond's family received $20 million

    The city of Minneapolis agreed to a $20 million settlement with the family of a woman shot dead by a police officer who was convicted of murder, lawmakers announced on Friday.

    The settlement came just three days after jurors convicted the former officer, Mohamed Noor, of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter in the July 15, 2017, slaying of Justine Ruszczyk Damond, a dual citizen of the United States and Australia.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 03/12/2021 - 3:07pm


    Uh, (not) driving while white & blond?

    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 03/12/2021 - 8:13pm

    So far this thread looks to me like evidence the system is working when bad things happen to happen.

    by artappraiser on Fri, 03/12/2021 - 3:26pm


    submitted by artappraiser 4 min ago

    This just popped up on my laptop screen from local news alerts I get, and thought I'd share it. BECAUSE: it's the kind of story that happens all across the country every day but doesn't get any national attention because it happens all the time.

    By Ryan Santistevan of Rockland/Westchester Journal News via Lohud.com, March 14, 2:33 pm ET

    Peter Kastsaridis shot and killed himself Saturday after he exchanged gunfire with Yonkers police and barricaded himself in his Livingston Avenue home. 

    Officers responded to the 50-year-old resident's home at 10:55 a.m. for a welfare check after police said he made threats to an insurance company employee.It wasn't the first threat he had made to another person as he had an active warrant for his arrest following a March 1 incident when police said he threatened his neighbor with a handgun [....]



    Shoulda sent the social workers for the "welfare check"? If so, would there be dead social workers now?

    For whatever the reason, this is our reality:

    2014 was one of the safest years in US history.

    Since that time, my preliminary estimates suggest that the number of gun murders in the 100 largest cities has risen by about 75 percent.

    More than half of the overall rise in violence took place in 2020 alone.

    — Patrick Sharkey (@patrick_sharkey) March 13, 2021

    Patrick Sharkey @patrick_sharkey Professor of Sociology and Public Affairs, Princeton


    by artappraiser on Sun, 03/14/2021 - 2:42pm

    another "not unusual enough for the national news" story, saw it now just because I follow Milwaukee's newspaper on Twitter


    By rmrd0000 on Thu, 03/11/2021 - 8:22pm |

    The Los Angeles Police Department severely mishandled protests last summer in the wake of George Floyd’s death, illegally detaining protesters, issuing conflicting orders to its rank-and-file officers and striking people who had committed no crimes with rubber bullets, bean bags and batons, according to a scathing report released on Thursday.

    An ill-prepared department quickly allowed the situation to spiral out of control when some protesters got violent, failing to rein in much of the most destructive behavior while arresting thousands of protesters for minor offenses, according to the 101-page reportcommissioned by the City Council.

    The report was also highly critical of the department’s leadership, saying that high-ranking officers sometimes made chaotic scenes even worse by shifting strategies without communicating clearly. In many cases, officers used “antiquated tactics” that failed to calm the more violent demonstrators, some of whom the report said deliberately threw things at officers from behind a line of peaceful protesters.

    The review is the latest to find serious fault with a police department’s response to the wave of protests that swept the country in the wake of Mr. Floyd’s death in Minneapolis on May 25.



    the view of "New York City Antifa" on this:

    it basically follows, of course, that it's impossible to reform policing, you have to abolish it

    by artappraiser on Fri, 03/12/2021 - 3:40pm

    Police Shrugged Off the Proud Boys, Until They Attacked the Capitol

    Two Proud Boys accused of leading a mob to Congress followed a bloody path to get there. Law enforcement did little to stop them.



    Kentucky Senate votes to criminalize insulting police in way that could cause ‘violent response’


    Breonna Taylor's Boyfriend Kenneth Walker Files Federal Lawsuit Against Louisville and Police Officers Involved in Deadly Raid


    No Charges Against Officers Involved In Daniel Prude’s Death

    Police officers shown on body camera video holding Daniel Prude down naked and handcuffed on a city street last winter until he stopped breathing will not face criminal charges, according to a grand jury decision announced Tuesday.

    The 41-year-old Black man’s death last March sparked nightly protests in Rochester, New York, after the video was released nearly six months later, with demonstrators demanding a reckoning for police and city officials.

    State Attorney General Letitia James, whose office took over the prosecution and impaneled a grand jury, said “the criminal justice system is badly in need of reform.”

    “While I know that the Prude family, the Rochester community, and communities across the country will rightfully be devastated and disappointed, we have to respect this decision,” James said in a prepared release. “Serious reform is needed, not only at the Rochester Police Department, but to our criminal justice system as a whole.”


    Colorado Police Had No Legal Standing to Stop Elijah McClain: Independent Report

    The Aurora, Colorado, police officers who stopped Elijah McClain as he was was walking home from a convenience store—and then put him in a carotid hold in which he repeatedly said he couldn’t breathe before injecting him with ketamine—did not have any legal basis for the August 2019 altercation, an independent investigation has concluded.

    The 157-page report, commissioned by the City of Aurora after McClain’s death drew worldwide condemnation, offered stunning details into the countless missteps involved in the 23-year-old Black massage therapist’s death. Independent investigators concluded in the report released Monday that “the post-event investigation was flawed and failed to meaningfully develop a fulsome record. These facts trouble the panel. However, it was not our charge to assess whether misconduct occurred; rather, our task was simply to report what we could learn from the record and make policy recommendations.”

    Investigators found that McClain’s death happened quickly; however, neither the resident who initially called 911 nor the responding officers even identified the 23-year-old as having committed a crime.


    Former Ohio Police Officer Charged with Murder in Fatal Shooting of Unarmed Black Man Andre Hill


    Five Oklahoma Officers Charged in Shooting Death of 15-Year-Old Boy

    First-degree manslaughter charges were brought against the police officers after body-camera footage showed them shooting Stavian Rodriguez multiple times after he dropped a gun, prosecutors said.


    'The jury made the right decision': Reporter Andrea Sahouri acquitted in trial stemming from arrest as she covered protest


    All the data about police shootings since 2015 to date in this WaPo March 11 article on their continuing project

    The rate has been steady since 2015, it's been about 1,000 a year, protests changed nothing on the shooting front.

    The demographics have been constant, too.

    It locates all the shootings on a map. There are lots of graphs and lots of links to data.

    1,004 people have been shot and killed by police in the past year

    @ WashingtonPost.com, Updated March 11, 2021

    Read about our methodology  Download the data  Submit a tip 

    In 2015, The Washington Post began to log every fatal shooting by an on-duty police officer in the United States. In that time there have been more than 5,000 such shootings recorded by The Post.

    [Jump to the database]

    After Michael Brown, an unarmed Black man, was killed in 2014 by police in Ferguson, Mo., a Post investigation found that the FBI undercounted fatal police shootings by more than half. This is because reporting by police departments is voluntary and many departments fail to do so.

    The Post’s data relies primarily on news accounts, social media postings and police reports. Analysis of more than five years of data reveals that the number and circumstances of fatal shootings and the overall demographics of the victims have remained relatively constant.

    Rate of shootings remains steady

    Despite the unpredictable events that lead to fatal shootings, police nationwide have shot and killed almost the same number of people annually — nearly 1,000 — since The Post began its project. Probability theory may offer an explanation. It holds that the quantity of rare events in huge populations tends to remain stable absent major societal changes, such as a fundamental shift in police culture or extreme restrictions on gun ownership.


    Black Americans are killed at a much higher rate than White Americans

    Although half of the people shot and killed by police are White, Black Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate. They account for less than 13 percent of the U.S. population, but are killed by police at more than twice the rate of White Americans. Hispanic Americans are also killed by police at a disproportionate rate.


    Most victims are young, male

    An overwhelming majority of people shot and killed by police are male — over 95 percent. More than half the victims are between 20 and 40 years old.


    Shootings happen across the country

    Police shootings have taken place in every state and have occurred more frequently in cities where populations are concentrated. States with the highest rates of shootings are New Mexico, Alaska and Oklahoma.

    Each circle on the map below marks the location of a deadly shooting.

    [MAP HERE]

    Search the database

    This database contains records of every fatal shooting in the United States by a police officer in the line of duty since Jan. 1, 2015. It is updated regularly as fatal shootings are reported and as facts emerge about individual cases.

    Note: When filtering by weapon, victims armed with multiple weapons will appear in multiple categories.





    Mental illness


    Body camera

    Fleeing the scene




    So there's less than 500 shooting deaths a year of blacks by police that haven't increased or decreased BUT there's probably more than 7,500 black deaths by homicide in 2020, we know there were just under that number in 2019 and many localities have reported huge increases of homicides in 2020.

    Also one question nobody ever asks: How many more homicides of blacks were prevented by police?

    After a year of fixation on topic, including sooo many protests and severe corresponding violence and looting that caused much bad will, and counterproductive related voting trends, I've decided that I'm pretty much with this guy, who wrote this Baltimore Sun op-ed almost two months before we all saw a video of George Floyd killed by a disgusting cop outlier

    Homicide is a ‘devastating plague’ on black communities, and it is time we stop ignoring it

    [....] there are well meaning progressives who are concerned about discriminatory policing, crowding jails and prisons with black people, and the stereotyping of innocent African Americans.

    The reality is that homicides in major cities including Baltimore are not race neutral. Of the more than three hundred people killed in the streets of Baltimore last year, just about all of them were African Americans. The shooters (killers) were most likely black as well. This is a devastating plague acutely affecting black communities across the country.

    We must realize that some black people are a much greater threat to other black people than the Ku Klux Klan or the White Citizens’ Councils. The number of blacks gunned down in the streets by other blacks parallels our memories of the many blacks lynched in communities across the United States after Reconstruction. This is a devastating plague acutely affecting black communities across the country.

    The killings continue even as the country faces a coronavirus pandemic that prompted the governor to place the state on a stay-at-home lockdown. No one is to go out unless it is for essentials such as groceries and prescription medications. The killings don’t stop. Again it is mostly black victims.

    And while some people don’t want to admit it, the aggressive law enforcement tactics that some declare overbearing have worked in reducing crime.

    The stop-and-frisk practice in New York City was associated with a decline in homicides. When Richmond, Virginia, got tough on gun violations the homicide rate went down. By allowing gun violations to be prosecuted as federal crimes guilty persons were renditioned to federal prisons in places like Utah. This likely included some African Americans.

    When former Mayor Shelia Dixon and Police Chief Frederick H. Bealefeld III got tough on “bad guys with guns,” homicides in Baltimore went down. It is likely that most of those detained were black. In these three reductions in homicides, the people who benefited most also were African Americans who lost fewer sons, daughters, fathers and mothers to senseless street violence. More black people lived.

    This poses a real problem for the black elite and white progressives. How to address bad behavior by some black folks without denigrating the “whole” black community? Many continue to struggle to give a balanced and positive picture of black life in America. The truth is, there are some black folk who do bad things. The sad truth is that their victims are most often other black people.

    The attitude toward bad guys with guns is not the same in these violent neighborhoods, where people fear for their lives everyday, as it is in the relatively peaceful suburbs far away from the crime. Many African American communities are under siege by black gun-toting terrorists. Children cannot play in their yards and the elderly can no longer sit on their porches. At a recent town hall, a young black woman could not understand why her brother’s killer had still remained free on the street awaiting trial for a previous gun violation. Many of the people accused of murder in the city frequently have existing gun violations. This is a cycle that must be broken.

    Now is the time to reconcile, black pride, civil liberties and civil rights with the need for safe black communities. No one wants to resort to stop-and-frisk policies or mass incarceration, but something like it may be needed. Such efforts can target illegal weapons pretty much the same as stop-and-frisk efforts at major airports. This is not a problem in the larger white community, but it is in black communities and must be addressed as a problem particular to those neighborhoods.

    This senseless gun violence and predatory behavior should not continue to be tolerated. This lawlessness victimizes black families, the black community and future generations. At some point we need to stop letting the presumed rights of a few endanger the lives of many.

    John L. Hudgins ([email protected]) is co-director of the Human Services Administration and an associate professor of sociology at Coppin State University.

    The continued fixation on "police abuse" when the rate of death from the same is way less than homicide, and probably way less than deaths by improperly practiced medicine WITHOUT EVEN CONSIDERING 100,000+ minority deaths in one year from coronavirus, this is an ABSURD HYSTERIA.

    Especially when most of these cases are being adjudicated in our justice system and more and more cops are wearing body cams and people are taking videos of them at work. It's not like they are running around like the Klan in 1920, they're being watched all the time. And when the hysteria is causing more people to buy guns. With which more minority people will be maimed or killed.

    Could policing be improved? Of course, everything can be improved. But this does not need to be a priority, many more lives can be saved via other reforms first. It's totally irrational to make this a priority!

    I would like to emphasize this paragraph from WaPo:

    Despite the unpredictable events that lead to fatal shootings, police nationwide have shot and killed almost the same number of people annually — nearly 1,000 — since The Post began its project. Probability theory may offer an explanation. It holds that the quantity of rare events in huge populations tends to remain stable absent major societal changes, such as a fundamental shift in police culture or extreme restrictions on gun ownership.

    I.E. police shootings resulting in death are a side effect of policing, just like dying on the operating table is by risking heart surgery or from an auto accident by risking driving. We can cut down all of those deaths with certain measures, but we chose not to because getting them further down asks too much.

    p.s. I will not be surprised if in 10 years we look back on this and see something along these lines where excessive emotionally manipulative media coverage of outlier incidents without any balance caused nonsensical beliefs and distorted priorities.

    Unarmed people should not be killed by the police

    This truth is not dependent on the whether the homicide rate is high or low

    Trials to see if mental health workers can lead to better outcomes went police are called into situations where mental health issues are important 

    Those who make jokes about sending mental health care workers into active shootout situations are broadcasting that they have no true interest in police reform 

    I was not joking upthread when I suggested that if social workers had been sent on that Yonkers "welfare check" upthread, they probably would be dead right now along with the shooter who would have then killed himself. He shot at the police, why not shoot at social workers?  He threatened someone on the phone, he had a warrant out. Again how come no one ever asks how many lives policing saves? All of us in NYC were so very grateful for how they reduced the violent crime rate astronomically for a while, as nasty as they can be personality-wise, you put up with that for such quality of life, for civilization. You are never going to get 100% perfect cops, nor doctors nor politicians...

    Unarmed black people should not be killed by armed (or unarmed) black people.

    The truth is the homicide rate remains rather alarmingly high.

    For each Brenna or Floyd there's 100 everyday killings of children, women, men.

    It's hard to see how more social workers will stem the tide of black on black killings (and other predatory behavior that drives this horrid outcome)

    So many times AA has posted links about killings at rap events. I'm a musician, but I'd be a bit humbled by my music leading to deaths. I remember rednecks with shotguns in pickups after football games, and was never too into that. Why are black rednecks with guns any better?

    Elephant in room - blacks kill a lot of blacks. Not much a dumb cracker from the south is gonna do about it's Got any ideas? It's only been a half century of rap and dumbass killings at events that were supposed to be fun. I was into punk, but not a lot of murders at punk concerts.

    I remember Indians in a town split by a river* had a festiva where they'd get together once a year and throw rocks at each other, and dozens would be killed or maimed, and i thought how bizarre and uncivilized they were, but maybe that was just their way to keep from doing it 365 days a year. Someone impressed on me, "people do dumb things for good reasons", so always worth considering. 

    *reviving my memory of the festival/soort, a)the "good thing" might have been saving a sacrifice thru bloody carnage, except people still die, and b) it seems the introduction of video into the equation in the 70s just made people more vain and fashionable, so may have escalated the situation - perhaps rap is video culture gone awry as well?


    Homicide rates were high in the 1990s

    It is not clear why they came down even during a recession 

    Dealing with homicides is obviously a different issue than police killing unarmed people

    No charges for the officers who killed Breonna Taylor, but an officer charged for shooting into a wall

    Killings by police are not going to be ignored despite the wishes of you and AA

    Legislatures and Congress and working on police reform 

    Mental health workers will have police protection 

    As, I said, it is good that you and AA only have control over dagblog.

    Your deal is to ignore the Breonna's 

    Not gonna happen


    Homicides may decrease with a focus on poverty, but as I noted, homicides decreased during the recession.

    Gang activity probably accounts for much of the crime

    There were anti-gang task forces in places like Baltimore

    Turns out, the cops became their own gang.

    Same community distrust in Chicago.

    Same gang style behavior by the police

    If police reform builds community trust, police may receive tips on possible future events

    Although prior notice didn't seem to help much in the attack on the Capitol


    So we deal with police reform and keeping police from killing unarmed Blacks

    In the meantime, we try to figure out why homicides went down to historic lows

    The gun homicide rate dropped 49% from 1993 to 2013


    Great, Bill Clinton balanced the budget in the 90s and unemployment's only twice what it was under him, so what me worry in 2021, eh? Are we higher than the 50s or 60s? Can we get back to that?

    You like focusing on these outliers and feel good changes that maybe will tick the stats by a few percent (at great cost), and never much about what the community itself can do.

    And yes, i talk a lot about the Brenna's and George Floyds. But still by far the minirity. Meanwhile:


    The Gun Violence Archive reported that more than 19,000 people died in shootings or firearm-related incidents in 2020, the highest figure in over two decades.

    New Orleans-based crime analyst Jeff Asher took a closer look at the number of murders in 57 major American cities and he found that the number of offenses grew in 51 of them. He only focused on agencies where data was available and most of them had figures through November or December of 2020. Growth in violent crime varied by city with Seattle seeing a 74 percent spike in homicides between 2019 and 2020 while Chicago and Boston saw their offenses grow 55.5 percent and 54 percent, respectively. Elsewhere, Washington D.C. and Las Vegas saw growth in their murder offences, albeit at a slower pace of less than 20 percent.

    New York's homicide count went up by nearly 40 percent with Mayor Bill de Blasio stating that the figures should worry all New Yorkers and it has to stop. He attributed the situation "in part, to the coronavirus and to the fact that people are cooped up", according to NPR, adding that "it's certainly related to the fact that the criminal justice system is on pause and that's causing a lot of problems". The rise in homicide has not been confined to cities and Asher says that the problem is also increasingly rural. He told NPR that the numbers for 2020 are by no means final and that the official end of year statistics will tell a startingly grim story. He also said that the U.S. is on course for the largest one-year rise in its murder count ever recorded.

    Of the 9,468 murder arrests in the US in 2017, 53.5% were black and 20.8% Hispanic. Of the 822,671 arrests for non-aggravated assault, 31.4% were black and 18.4% Hispanic.

    What is your super special project to solve the issue?

    Considering police greatly helped bring the homicides down, maybe focus on other issues besides mean police for a sec?

    If police killed *0* unarmed people in a year, there's still gonna be a fuckload of unarmed people killed that year, right? Oh, maybe fewer than under Clinton 30 years ago. So say a half a fuckload. 

    You have no plan

    Like the poor community in Hillbilly Elegy, there are few resources in urban poor areas

    Even when vaccines were targeted for poor black neighborhoods, rich white folks swooped in and took their spots,

    Edit to add:

    Homicides are different than the deaths of unarmed police

    Deaths by police can be targeted

    A focused attack can be planned

    Urban homicides are harder to address

    We don't know why they went down or why they are going up.




    You still have not laid out a plan

    To prevent homicides, focus on what?

    Police are still going to be the prime focus when armed people are killed.

    Your wanting to ignore those homicides is not going to happen

    [Note - if you're going to comment on the same topic, could you please just edit your comment to add the additional thought? Having additional Comments that are really 1 extended comment just clutters the Comments list - PP

    PP PS - I'm not a police administrator, politician, or otherwise empowered to make up and recommend or execute "plans" - I'm just a blogger. Sorry if there's been some misunderstanding on that score. Joe Biden won't even return my phone calls.]

    repeat excerpt from WaPo:

    Despite the unpredictable events that lead to fatal shootings, police nationwide have shot and killed almost the same number of people annually — nearly 1,000 — since The Post began its project. Probability theory may offer an explanation. It holds that the quantity of rare events in huge populations tends to remain stable absent major societal changes, such as a fundamental shift in police culture or extreme restrictions on gun ownership.

    neither going to happen, deal with 1,000 deaths a year, less than 500 black

    here's the exact # from U.S. News & World Report: 239 blacks shot dead by cops out of 1,009 people in 2019:

    And again, as per WaPo, the numbers are stable since 2015.

    We have to have a U.S. government plan for this? When soooo many more are dying from homicide by other blacks?

    Sounds like crazy paranoia about police to me, like there's a huge conspiracy to shoot black people and they are all racist and that needs to be fixed or people will riot. Like, oh, Trumpies believing he won the election. Or people believing Covid vaccine is dangerous...because they read that "everywhere", stories every day: election stolen, vaccines dangerous plot...

    How effective do you expect your condemnation plan to be?

    Yes, we do need a government plan.

    I believe that if communities feel the police are being held accountable, homicide rates will fall.

    A national plan to hold police accountable is needed

    Police homicides have remained steady 

    You cannot internalize this data

    Poilce are not trusted

    It’s this story that led the US Department of Justice under President Barack Obama to investigate police practices in BaltimoreClevelandNew OrleansFerguson, MissouriChicago; and several other American cities, consistently finding massive problems. As the department wrote in its Baltimore report, racial disparities were “present at every stage of BPD’s enforcement actions, from the initial decision to stop individuals on Baltimore streets to searches, arrests, and uses of force” and that the disparities “erode the community trust that is critical to effective policing.” 

    It’s this story that has led black people to trust police at half the rate of their white counterparts.

    It’s this story, too, that’s kept black communities less safe, suffering disproportionately not just from police violence but also crime that goes underpoliced. As Council on Criminal Justice senior fellow Thomas Abt previously told me, “In addition to all of these burdens that we’re placing on African-American communities in terms of aggressive policing, we’re fundamentally failing them at keeping them safe.”

    It’s this story that, over the past week, has led thousands of Americans to protest in the streets against police violence and systemic racism.

    But how, exactly, can America reform policing?

    I interviewed nine criminal justice experts about this topic in 2016. In a testament to how little things have changed, all eight of their recommendations stand up today — and none have been implemented at a national scale. 

    The proposals focus on repairing the damage done by centuries of abusive policing practices in minority communities, from addressing racial biases to limiting use of force to holding police accountable. And in working to rebuild trust in police, the ideas could actually help cops do their jobs — enabling them to help keep minority communities safe, instead of terrorizing these communities.


    The initial step is police reform

    Neither you or PP understand this.

    You both want to dictate what the Black community has to do and ignore what government sanctioned police need to do.


    I understand that Trump was the motherfucking president these last 4 years, and he wasn't about to do dick to make things better. Which part of that super obvious factoid don't *you* understand?

    But if blacks want to kill blacks in ever-escalating numbers, really doesn't affect me, especially since I live in Europe. So since you seem to care so much about this shit, let's see your plan, aside from "defund the police" and "social workers to shooting sites", which most of the time is after people have already been shot dead.

    Besides "police reform", could there be "people reform"? Cuz, like, even if police treat everyone nice and don't shoot, there's still gonna be 18,000 shooting deaths minimum. That sounds like a lot to me, but I'm sure we:ll find some other group to blame that on as well.

    Again with the send social workers into shooting sites nonsense.

    You have concrete thinking

    Try reading some of the suggestions in the linked article

    Some are included in the George Floyd Bill.

    No one is blaming other groups, the idea is to build trust between the police and the community

    That could aid your so-called people reform with police and community working together.

    I will go with the suggestions of experts and reject the PP and AA rants.

    Thanks for verifying that you don't care.



    As i implied, i don't give a fuck and am simply bored with overloaded racial identity crap. I live in Europe and not my biggest concern. There are thousands of issues out there - your skin color is just one of them, believe it or not.

    Not the exact number, because 239 is the total blacks shot dead by police, not the suspected # if wrongful shootings of blacks by police. Obviously with nearly 20,000 shooting deaths, a few police shootings will be totally justified, right? Your number is about 1%, so potentially wrongful will be 0.5%? 0.3%?

    The idea is to create trust between police and community 

    Trust would involve holding police accountable when the police screw up.

    Your option appears to be to tell the community there is nothing to see here when a person dies at the hands of police.

    I think that a program based on your model will fail

    I believe that a national program holding police accountable might work.

    With maybe 0.3% of fatal shootings being potentially wrongful deaths of black people, i see it as a small part of a much bigger problem. Sure, figure out a way to lower it, but 20,000 deaths by shooting dwarf it, and idiot protesters destroying minority-run businesses isn't going to fix it.

    BTW, i don't have a "model" - I'm just describing current reality. What is there to "see here" when a little kid dies from a thug's Bullet? Does the "community" get out and protest the way it protests for Breonna? And why not? Again, i was outraged back in May. But worse stuff going on now. Sure, fix something, but as AA points out over and over, don't exaggerate the problem enough. This isn't "black people dying from cops blog", believe it or not.

    Homicides are high

    Trust in police is low

    Any homicide by police decreases community trust

    People do not see police being held accountable 

    Police reform sends a message that police will be held to account.

    That could build community trust, leading to police getting tips

    The result could be a reduction in homicides.

    Read the article that lays out the suggestions for reform.

    I don't possess a magic wand, so I don't expect the homicide rate to go to zero

    I do believe that most people who live in high risk neighborhoods are not committing homicides

    now this, this looks like it needs a plan:

    Looks like punk and metal guys prefer overdoses and car crashes.

    High homicides for rappers

    We are not going to ban punk or rap


    Killing yourself or death by carelessness is different than killing others (or others killing you)

    Comparing peak 1993 murders with lowest murders 8 years ago doesn't accurately describe how it's going, and gives a false sense of security & success.


    off thread-way interesting chart! what the heck is going on with folk singers and cancer? is it the vegan diets? Jazz and folk-many long nights spent in small smoke-filled bars?

    Could be more time in and consuming smoke, could also be more blues & jazz singers are black with a higher tendency of heart issues etc.

    You can post whatever you like here.

    And like is being done with lots of news and social media, I can post analysis and criticism of that news.

    In this case I think police abuse against blacks is being over-covered way out of all proportion to virtually any other danger, giving an unrealistic, almost delusional picture of what are the major priority problems in this country and what are not.

    That in our capitalist media system, media may be feeding an emotional desire for such coverage, feeding people like you what you want to hear, to confirm your beliefs, out of all proportion and balance.

    That videos are taken of abuse and go viral because it is confirmation bias.

    Hardly anyone takes videos of cops saving black lives. If they do, they don't go viral.

    Major media does not cover the overwhelming number of cop successes to balance the negative depiction. Sometimes local media does that, but rarely.The cops have to do that on social media themselves, and nobody pays attention.

    Nobody takes videos of cops harassing white people. Not because it doesn't happen, all us white people know it happens. If they did, they wouldn't go viral. Because they don't confirm the current delusion of the day that cops are all racist.

    But WaPo's stats don't lie. There's been no change in deaths by cop since 2015.

    This is the result of millions and millions of police and citizen interactions in the U.S. every year: 1,000 deaths per year of all skin colors. Since 2015. No change.

    What other stats do suggest: black males 20 to 40 commit a lot of crime out of proportion to the size of their demographic So police profile them. Makes sense to me. Is also extremely unfortunate for young black males who are innocent.

    If we were able to pay cops a fortune so we got only Sherlock Holmes caliber cops, we might have more discerning and exacting profiling that would be more fair. But we wouldn't even if we could.

    So young black males maybe have to take it upon themselves to use peer pressure to change their demographic ot have a more positive image rather than encouraging usage of guns and violence through rap and other cultural means?

    If not, black parents will have to continue to give their sons "the talk".

    But again, there's been no change, negative or positive direction. That highly suggests a number that can't be changed without major major adjustments to the way things are done and even then might never be improved upon.

    Edit to add: furthermore, even you have been reduced to posting stories how instances of abuse are being investigated, addressed and adjucated. You are aware that most loss of life cases due to negligence in professional duties are not adjudicated by criminal cases but in civil cases? And then those responsible for paying fire that guy or gal or try and to reform things so they don't have to keep paying over and over. It's actually quite rare to prosecute a grossly negligent doctor or car repairman for murder. I don't know why everyone's started to expect that to happen to grossly negligent cops. A reminder that juries aren't perfect either but they are all we got.

    Did anyone ever post the result of the case over which half of downtown Kenosha, WI was burned or wrecked and then two protesters lost their lives in a fight with an immature armed counter protester not to mention it cost the city a fortune in more police duty:

    New audio shares the moment Jacob Blake confessed to being armed, DA's investigation reveal

    so much for the effect of viral videos of police shootings.

    Edit to add, and then there was this Walter Wallace Jr.'s Family Does Not Want Police Officers To Face Murder Charges after major riots and looting in Philadelphia because of a video. His family was there, they knew what happened. The rioters and looters saw a video or heard about one. Shrug? Not like Proud Boys angry about a supposed stolen election, not the same thing at all?

    To be clear what happened here

    PP moved some of my posts to this blog which PP titled "Police Brutality & Interaction"

    PP did this so he would be free to talk about what he wanted to discuss 

    My intent was to discuss police killing unarmed people

    PP and AA have made it clear that they do not gave a damn about that topic and prefer to discuss urban homicides

    My intention was to focus on tissues like those brought up in the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act

    House Democrats passed a sweeping federal policing overhaul on Wednesday that would combat racial discrimination and excessive use of force in law enforcement, as lawmakers seek to rekindle bipartisan negotiations on the issue.


    I think urban homicides are a separate topic, but it looks like we will be discussing them together.

    PP moved some of my posts to this blog which PP titled "Police Brutality & Interaction"

    PP moved posts to Police Brutality, then renamed

    PP did this so he would be free to talk about what he wanted to discuss 

    PP overall is very bored with this topic and wouldn't discuss it all, but he/she/they did it to group similar topics under 1 thread, rather than vomited all over the site every day.

    My intent was to discuss police killing unarmed people

    Go ahead.

    PP and AA have made it clear that they do not gave a damn about that topic and prefer to discuss urban homicides

    PP and presumably AA are bored shitless with 10 months of regurgitating the same mindless talking points while the black-led cities experience a surge in killings, get to deal with destructive spoiled brat protesters, and Republicans use Breonna-and-Floyd inspired poutstorms not to fix the judicial system, but to bring disgruntled minority residents to their side, win elections so they can keep black Democrats from voting, which presumably will lead to worse conditions for black urban dwellers. (take a circle and caress it, and it turns vicious). I certainly write enough supportive comments and blogs back in May and June, before the BLM actions became counterproductive (see Atlanta mayor speech for one) and a fundraiser topic for Trump.

    You had a month of Black History trying to be Root Jr. which was manageable because the individual comments (guess you don't know how to group items) went under 1 thread. Contrary to hat l, we have 3 threads on Woke & 1 on Dr Seuss that will set under Readers Blogs* for forever (*a misnomer, cuz most of this is just readers cutting and pasting, not writing original thought)

    I deleted moved your Meghan the Stallion post cuz we discussed that back in October. I left your post on some relic returned to Italy (even though it seems as noteworthy as "man kicks dog" - but no one appreciates my benevolence)

    There are 3 people who regularly post new content here. If you don't like my style of moderating, there are a million or so blogs out there that you're welcome to join OGD at. Not sure how many allow open daily whining and repetitive content, but Google it and see.


    I use an iPad. Photos, etc do not format well on your platform.

    Edit to add:

    The "whining" posts are usually articles taken from MSM sources, not tweet snippets.

    AA repeatedly takes us back to Portland 

    I often have to edit photo sizes - don't know what different iPad does. You'd have to pont me to a concrete example to see what the issue is.

    Kenosha/Milwaukee and New York are also AA's concern too, among others (Atlanta at the time, Seattle...), but if Portland keeps making the news, there may be more to say, esp. post-Jan 6. But nice try at deflection.

    No deflection 

    You combined Nigerian police brutality, Louisiana State troopers, Minneapolis, Portland. Yonkers, and LAPD under one banner.

    Like duh - police brutality. That's the point, right? Mostly cops are cops, and bad cops are bad cops. Doesn't really matter nationality or skin color - the problem's largely the same, no?

    BTW, i might have tossed the Portland piece here too, but it already had 8 comments and is about to scroll off the page.

    The Kentucky piece is more a freedom-of-speech 1st Amendment issue

    The type of thing that used to make headline news everywhere, no big deal anymore? Police use twitter instead of bullhorns now? Where were the social workers?

    Yeah, 15 people shot at party last night in Chicago, no big deal, not of national interest:

    "If you take away resources from the police, that takes away an opportunity for us to get justice,” said one man whose daughter was killed in a shooting. https://t.co/e4wgo5COon

    — Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) March 16, 2021

    beginning of article (by John Schuppe):

    When nationwide protests against police brutality and racism reached Lansing, Michigan, last spring, John Edmond heard calls to slash the local police budget and found it a little extreme.

    John Edmond, 43, holds a photo of his daughter,
    Amaia, outside his home in Holt, Mich. Amaia
    was killed by a stray bullet at the age of 7 while
    she was inside her home in Lansing.
    Elaine Cromie / for NBC News

    Edmond, 43, a Black man who said he’d been profiled by police when he was younger, understood the anger that fueled the marchers. But he also saw the demands through the eyes of someone who’d lost a child to gunfire.

    “If you take away resources from the police, that takes away an opportunity for us to get justice,” he said.

    His 7-year-old daughter was killed in a 2010 shooting that helped spur the creation of a special police unit targeting violent crime. In the protests’ aftermath, police officials warned that the unit — and the jobs of many officers — might not survive if their budget was cut.

    That argument gained power as a surge in gun violence drove homicides to a 30-year high in Lansing, the capital of Michigan. In the fall, the City Council rejected a proposal to cut the $46.5 million police budget in half over five years and instead endorsed hiring more social workers.

    After the death of George Floyd spawned a movement to curb police power in America, a rise in violent crime in many cities has served as a counterweight, making radical changes harder for some of the public — and some elected officials — to accept.

    In Minneapolis, where Floyd was killed by police, the City Council proposed eliminating the police department in June. While the council forced some cuts, by February, following a dramatic rise in violent crime, it agreed to hire more officers. In January, Salt Lake City’s council lifted a police hiring freeze imposed during the Floyd protests as violence spiked. Atlanta, where homicides hit a 20-year high, increased its police budget last summer. A survey of mayors released in January showed that a vast majority thought their police budgets shouldn’t significantly shrink.

    In Lansing, a city of 118,000, Mayor Andy Schor has backed changes to police operations but opposes cuts to the police budget. Police Chief Daryl Green said that he has fought off the City Council’s attempts to reduce funding to his department by highlighting the rise in violence [....]

    From NYT

    Murder Rate Remains Elevated as New Crime Reporting System Begins

    The big increase in the murder rate in the United States in 2020 has carried over to 2021.

    A sample of 37 cities with data available for the first three months of this year shows murder up 18 percent relative to the same period last year.

    In the midst of a volatile period in crime, keeping track of trends has become especially important so that the police and local officials can tailor prevention policies.

    But as it happens, this year’s national crime release will be the last of its kind as the F.B.I. transitions to a crime reporting system that will affect the public’s ability to evaluate trends locally and nationally.

    On Monday, the F.B.I. released preliminary statistics showing a major increase in murder last year, with a 25 percent rise in agencies that reported quarterly data. The F.B.I. did not receive data from several cities with known big increases in murder like New YorkChicago and New Orleans, but cities of all sizes reported increases of greater than 20 percent.

    A 25 percent increase in murder in 2020 would mean the United States surpassed 20,000 murders in a year for the first time since 1995. (The final official numbers for 2020 will not be released until late September.)

    Although it’s not clear what has caused the spike in murder, some possibilities are the various stresses of the pandemic; the surge in gun sales during the crisis; and less belief in police legitimacy related to protests over police brutality.

    The trend in the early months this year is not necessarily indicative of where things will end up in 2021. Most obviously, the pandemic may mostly recede by summer because of widespread vaccination, and a broad reopening of public life may change the dynamic that has led to the rise in violence.

    It may also be harder to assess trends in crime more generally, particularly those other than murder, with the F.B.I. phasing out its use of one data source.


    Theories about the increase in crime are the usual suspects; gun sales, pandemic stress (although fewer people were out and about), and lack of trust in police to resolve conflicts. The 2020 numbers won't be available until September.

    The impact of the new system on the numbers reported is unclear. The reporting should cover 81% of the population.

    The article notes the possibility that homicides may decrease later in the year

    Obviously, this is speculation 

    Regarding high crime neighborhoods, when yo look to buy or rent property you look at crime, schools, restaurants, etc.

    You go to the best area that you can afford

    If crime increases in your neighborhood, and you can afford it, you move.

    Some of those who cannot afford to move, do protest the gang activity

    Like this program in Chicago, the activity is generally ignored



    In City After City, Police Mishandled Black Lives Matter Protests 


    For many long weeks last summer, protesters in American cities faced off against their own police forces in what proved to be, for amajor law enforcement agencies across the country, a startling display of violence and disarray.

    In Philadelphia, police sprayed tear gas on a crowd of mainly peaceful protesters trapped on an interstate who had nowhere to go and no way to breathe. In Chicago, officers were given arrest kits so old that the plastic handcuffs were decayed or broken. Los Angeles officers were issued highly technical foam-projectile launchers for crowd control, but many of them had only two hours of training; one of the projectiles bloodied the eye of a homeless man in a wheelchair. Nationally, at least eight people were blindedafter being hit with police projectiles.

    Now, months after the demonstrations that followed the killing of George Floyd by the Minneapolis police in May, the full scope of the country’s policing response is becoming clearer. More than a dozen after-action evaluations have been completed, looking at how police departments responded to the demonstrations — some of them chaotic and violent, most peaceful — that broke out in hundreds of cities between late May and the end of August.

    In city after city, the reports are a damning indictment of police forces that were poorly trained, heavily militarized and stunningly unprepared for the possibility that large numbers of people would surge into the streets, moved by the graphic images of Mr. Floyd’s death under a police officer’s knee.

    The mistakes transcended geography, staffing levels and financial resources. From midsize departments like the one in Indianapolis to big-city forces like New York City’s, from top commanders to officers on the beat, police officers nationwide were unprepared to calm the summer’s unrest, and their approaches consistently did the opposite. In many ways, the problems highlighted in the reports are fundamental to modern American policing, a demonstration of the aggressive tactics that had infuriated many of the protesters to begin with

    I read the whole thing. It basically concludes that nearly to a one, all the police forces were not prepared and had no smart plans for dealing with large protests, had lousy plans or no plans and no decent command structure for decent crowd control because they have so little experience at it, no training in large crowd control.

    (A major missing point, mho, left unsaid: reduced staffing and exhaustion because of Covid.)

    That they basically left individual and lower level cops go wily-nily and do what they think. Including using all the fancy equipment some had bought over the years, of which many had not been trained to use, and some of which was so old that it was no longer in working order (like for example wrist ties that were so old that they broke easily). That they would also do things like arrest a lot of people and then have no idea where to go with them.

    It made me think: gee, this is the same exact story the Capitol Police told!

    Then I went to Twitter and looked at some of the reaction to the article of people with leftist inclinations who went to a lot of protests either as activists or free-lance "reporters" and I saw a lot of complaining that the NYTimes article reviewing all the independent studies was all bullshit whitewash absolving the police forces of intentional brutality, that none of it was true, that cops ganged and planned to brutalize all the protesters and did a good job of intentional brutalizing.

    I even saw one complain along the lines of "you mean to tell me NYPD doesn't have training in large protests?" And I thought a minute: huh, the guy is not from NYC, he doesn't know how they never let unexpected crowds get that big, they usually require licensing for any large gatherings. And then for large licensed gatherings, for which the rest of citizens are warned at least a day in advance on tv and radio and traffic reportig services that there will be a large group activity or protest that they might want to stay away from, they always do things like separate people with barricades and other barriers into smaller, watchable groups and have each of the smaller groups watched by several cops to avoid any mob forming.. 

    And if it's a planned march, they separate the march into block-long groups with cops inbetween them and accompanying them, same like with parades, and they make sure to have enough staff to do that, so that traffic can still move and other people can still get about their business. So I would tend to believe that they don't have a lot of experience at handling large unplanned protests, precisely because: their practice is: not to allow them in the first place.

    Especially after terrorism lessons and things like the Boston marathon bombing..

    .but since these protests were against cops themselves, they were put in the strange position of allowing them without licensing and not like: closing down the Brooklyn bridge before they could get across. And yes, I do recall seeing some pictures of  earlier protests forming in Brooklyn and getting waaay out of control,both protestors and cops basically breaking out into a melee of rioting.like a giant bar brawl and veering close to becoming, like, say, the Capital riot.

    the conclusions of the reports are a no brainer, actually, if you just remember the news as it happened. If the police forces had been ready and trained for such things happening, you wouldn't have like the mayor of Atlanta getting on TV to say "GO HOME, THIS IS NOT THE WAY YOU PROTEST!", it would have been properly handled and dispersed before it got to the stage of the mayor having to go on teevee with emergency messaging.

    This points out quite well how the problem is really all local and can only truly be fixed if more people who care get involved in the local government and stop voting for losers who don't fix things but yammer on about like Israel vs. Palestine or sytemic racism, and don't care about how massive money awarded in lawsuits and then being paid out by cities. The result is not causing enough of the intended affect, they get to wash their hands of it. Torts, it's supposed to be a punishment that causes altered behavior. But it doesn't in this case because taxpayers just keep paying without being interested that their money is being used for paying out on lawsuits. They don't pay attention, they just pay the bill via their sales tax and property tax or whatever and keep paying and don't demand reform like private companies or insurers would. They don't think of the money being spent on police abuse lawsuits as their money, when it is!

    Sure the DOJ can come into a city and prosecute and try to reform. But how well has that worked out so far? Bad cop departments and unions just lie and coverup. 

    People who really care about police reform got to get more interested in budget, not to defund police, but to get rid of the actors that cause big payouts in tort cases. You can't prevent a few bad apples in any city services, and the city will in those cases will be liable and you have to expect that. But you need to ride hard on them when they cost you over and over and over, it's just a matter of good government, good wonks not demagogues

    City Hall: New Police Grant Approved With Little Scrutiny

    Latest grant got two minutes of discussion, not months of meetings.

    by Jeramey Jannene @ UrbanMilwaukee.com,  March 26

    What a difference two months makes.

    The Common Council spent much of 2020 debating whether or not to accept a $9.7 million federal COPS grant to fund the Milwaukee Police Department‘s allocation of officers to the U.S. Department of Justice’s Operation Legend. It ultimately accepted the grant on a 9-6 vote, with multiple members claiming a bigger conversation on policing was needed. Dozens of community members submitted comments for or against the grant.

    Now, with only a couple minutes of discussion, the council voted unanimously Tuesday to accept a new $1.35 million federal grant to fund additional costs related to the federal policing effort.

    The grant will fund police overtime pay and a civilian liaison position within the department to coordinate activities between the Operation Legend participants. It also will cover capital costs relating to acquiring a ballistics testing machine ($314,754), four squad cars ($300,000), five unmarked vehicles ($80,000) and “various equipment and software” ($70,000). The grant runs through September 2023.

    “Was there a marker or was this simply going through the motion of accepting this grant?” asked Alderman Ashanti Hamilton, the broker of a deal on the COPS grant, on Tuesday.

    Finance & Personnel Committee chair Ald. Michael Murphy said the committee did its usual practice on grants that are referred for approval from another committee, leaving policy questions for the originating committee. “I know those discussions were more appropriately held at the public safety committee,” said Murphy. “I think they had a very extensive discussion on it.”

    So what happened at the Public Safety & Health Committee? Ald. Marina Dimitrijevic, chair of the committee, had to check her notes. “I did not really have anything additional to add,” said the alderwoman of Murphy’s comments.

    But that extensive discussion referenced by Murphy never happened [....]

    Operation Legend is a DOJ-initiated national crime fighting project introduced by Bill Barr in July 2020

    Withheld video: Chauvin's going free

    George Floyd, the Law, and the Absolute Necessity of Due Process - YouTube



    on the other hand, great counter argument to that, admired by a pro (30 years as a federal prosecutor):

    Watch the video. It's all there.

    trending: "The EMT"

    Who Are the Jurors in the Derek Chauvin Trial?

    The jurors bring to the table a range of views about race and policing, some forged by long life experience and some formed after the death of George Floyd.

    By Shaila Dewan and Tim Arango @ NYTimes.com, March 30, 2021

    MINNEAPOLIS — A white intensive care nurse who said if she saw someone on the street who needed help, she would feel obligated to step in. A Black grandmother who said she had no personal experience with the police or the criminal justice system.

    A white widow who rides a motorcycle in her spare time and said she believes that “all lives matter.” A Black man who works in banking and said he was eager to serve on the jury of “the most historic case of my lifetime.”

    These are some of the jurors appointed to weigh the evidence in the case of Derek Chauvin, the white former police officer who is accused of murdering George Floyd, a Black man.

    The jury is a demographic mix: three Black men, one Black woman, and two women who identified themselves as multiracial. There are two white men and four white women. They are urban and suburban, ranging in age from their 20s to their 60s. The two alternates are white women.


    Most of what is known about the jurors comes from the jury selection process, more than two weeks of questioning that touched on virtually every contentious issue in American life, including Covid-19 restrictions, Black Lives Matter, defunding the police, conspiracy theories and opioid addiction. The rest was provided by the court: a list of their approximate ages and races.

    More than 300 potential jurors filled out a 14-page questionnaire that asked about their views on policing, protests, race and criminal justice, among other questions, and their answers showed the hurdles the defense must overcome in a case about which so much is widely known. Lawyers for the defense and the prosecution then questioned potential jurors one on one.

    At least 10 of the 15 jurors and alternates chosen indicated that they had already formed a “somewhat negative” opinion of Mr. Chauvin. (The third alternate was dismissed on Monday.) But their views were nuanced — several said they had positive views of the police, but also believed that the criminal justice system was biased against Black people.

    Juror No. 92, a white woman in her 40s, wrote on a questionnaire that she had a “very favorable” opinion of Blue Lives Matter. “I would be terrified if our police departments were dismantled,” she wrote, according to what the defense lawyer read aloud during jury selection. “However, it is obvious that change needs to happen.”

    Many of the jurors expressed dismay over what had happened to Mr. Floyd or questioned the actions of the four officers involved, three of whom will face charges in a separate trial. Juror No. 27, a Black man in his 30s, wrote that Mr. Floyd “could have been me or anyone else,” according to the answers that the defense read back to him during questioning. No. 52, also a Black man in his 30s, wrote, “My opinion has been, why didn’t the other officers stop Chauvin?”

      Juror No. 89, the nurse, said that since Mr. Floyd had died she would have to conclude that the police had knelt on him for “too long.” No. 44, a white executive at a health care nonprofit, said, “I do not know the laws and procedures of the police for detainment, but a man died and I’m sure that’s not procedure.”

      The jurors said they could set their opinions and knowledge aside and consider only the evidence presented.

      Throughout the questioning, both the defense and the prosecution probed jurors on their views about protests, riots, Black Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter. They also undoubtedly considered the juror’s race, which has long been considered a clue to how someone might view a case.

      Typically, the defense in a case like this would be more likely to strike jurors of color because they are considered more skeptical of law enforcement. But in this case, many white prospective jurors were critical of the police [....]

      watch the whole thing; don't miss the use of dogs at the start, compare and contrast with U.S.

      Bruxelles aujourd'hui les policiers déployés par dizaines, à cheval ou à pied, en équipements antiémeutes policiers + canons à eau pour disperser un rassemblement au Bois de la Cambre, 1 femme grièvement blessée par un cheval! Toute cette armée est mobilisée au nom de l'EPIDEMIE! pic.twitter.com/SyuGBzzhRc

      — Le Général (@LE_GENERAL_FR) April 1, 2021

      edit to add, there's a longer version, here,where they show the minutes before, with the police forming a line after the dispersal announcement and the crowd starting to throw stuff at them:


      Similar happened here. You get foreign provocateurs along with locals unhappy about the situation. Quite often it's the foreigners who are stoking the situation the most - who they represent knowingly or unknowingly can be hard to say. I've seen similar with other protests like WTO, where people are marching calmly, and then suddenly the pros show up, smash windows and such for 10 minutes for some chaos, and then are gone 

      Policing is not really on trial in Minnesota. That’s too bad.

      Opinion by James Hohmann @ WashingtonPost.com, April 6, 2021 at 6:49 p.m. EDT

      An astonishing eight Minneapolis police officers who outranked Derek Chauvin have testified against their former colleague during his murder trial. Lt. Johnny Mercil, the department’s use-of-force training coordinator, said that the type of neck restraint Chauvin used on George Floyd was an “unauthorized” act of aggression. Inspector Katie Blackwell testified that she’s known Chauvin for 20 years and “that’s not what we train.” Lt. Richard Zimmerman, who runs the homicide division, said that Chauvin’s use of force was “uncalled for” and “totally unnecessary.”

      The jury has heard so many department officials, including Police Chief Medaria Arradondo, disavow Chauvin that Judge Peter A. Cahill warned prosecutors against being repetitive. “We are getting to the point of being cumulative,” he said Monday.

      To convict Chauvin, Minnesota prosecutors have gone out of their way to defend the patterns and practices of the Minneapolis Police Department; their argument, as prosecutor Jerry Blackwell put it, is that Chauvin, a 19-year veteran of the force, “betrayed this badge.” As a legal strategy, this makes perfect sense — they need to show that Chauvin’s actions are outside the norm of acceptable police behavior. He was, in this depiction, the ultimate bad apple [....]

      Yeah, i noticed that - all the cops be all Miss Manners and Hints from Heloise, and then this Chauvin cat comes along and he destroys the police's reputation for politeness. "We would never put a knee on a man's neck, Miss Scarlett..."

      Brennan Center for Justice analysis: "The Problem With Mayor de Blasio's Policing Reform Plan"

      (arta's short version: stupid as usual, what did you expect from an idiot panderer to any changing winds?)


      My opinion is that I don't see this opinion often enough:

      It is weird the amount of screaming - did *anything* precipitate this weird commandeering attitude?
      0 politeness to start? The Lieutenant's speaking calmly, but the cop stays screaming - does he not know how to de-escalate, to mimc moods to bring emotions down?

      The Governor of Virginia is calling for an investigation into the incident 

      The officer who pepper-sprayed the lieutenant has been fired

      A police officer in Virginia was fired after pepper spraying a Black Army lieutenant during a traffic stop last December, officials said Sunday.

      The town of Windsor said Officer Joe Gutierrez had been terminated after an investigation determined department policy “was not followed” during the incident, which drew heavy criticism after body camera footage was released. It’s unclear when Gutierrez was fired.

      “The Town of Windsor has remained transparent about this event since the initial stop, and has openly provided documents and related video to attorneys for Lt. Nazario,” officials said in a statement. “The Town of Windsor prides itself in its small-town charm and the community-wide respect of its Police Department. Due to this, we are saddened for events like this to cast our community in a negative light.”

      The town added that it would reach out to community stakeholders to “engage in dialogue and commit ourselves to additional discussions in the future.”

      Earlier Sunday, Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam called for an investigation into the incident in which two local police officers pulled over Caron Nazario, an Afro-Latinx man who serves as a second lieutenant in the U.S. Army Medical Corps, threatening and pepper-spraying the medic. He has since filed a lawsuit against them.

      Northam released a statement on Sunday that he has directed the Virginia State Police to conduct an independent investigation, saying the Dec. 5 traffic stop recorded via police body cameras and the man’s phone was “disturbing” and “angered me.” 


      Study by Travis Campbell University of Massachusetts at Amherst - College of Social and Behavioral Sciences - Department of Economics estimates that over the 5 years of 2014-2019 cities with BLM protests had as much as 300 fewer deaths by police, which would be 50 per year:

      “municipalities where BLM protests have been held experienced as much as a 20 percent decrease in killings by police, resulting in an estimated 300 fewer deaths nationwide in 2014–2019.”https://t.co/WeCrRSQa0J

      — Dr. Rashawn Ray (@SociologistRay) April 11, 2021

      Note that because accurate figures to use are not available -

      The study involved a quantitative research technique called “difference in differences,” which mimics a controlled experiment with observational data. Difference-in-differences studies use variation in the timing and location of a “treatment variable” (such as BLM protests or police killings) to sort data into artificial control groups and treatment groups; researchers can then compare an event’s apparent effects in different settings or time periods. The new study compared police killings in cities that experienced BLM protests with those that did not.

      Note that method does not seem to include any recognition of race of victims? Including the known fact that more "whites" are killed by police annually than "blacks."

      I would also note that this study does not attempt to quantify whether there were more deaths due to violence by civilians in these areas during the same time.

      I would also note that an average of 49 people per year are killed by lightning in the U.S..

      I for one therefore am not convinced by this study that protests had much of an effect at all on saving black lives.

      300 fewer deaths over a 6 year timespan, meaning 50 per year nationwide?
      How is that even significant enough to verify & register.

      agree. *bias verification alert*. And we want academic freedom, so that's fine that one academic decides to try his hand at that.

      But more a question for the public at large: Why did Scientific American even publish this article pointing to it? Because it's confirmation for popular narrative that people can share on social media causing more traffic and clicks? Aren't they supposed to be sorting the news for the reader for quality?

      proof there's no reason for federal politicians to even be involved with this, they don't even need to express an opinion, and that people interested in police reform should rather be involved in local politics and if they are pro-reform, they should educate themselves on how Democrats win power in the states. Unfortunately, it seems that this last election, a significant number of swing type voters, and immigrant types, who might help Democrats win power in the states, seem to have been upset by things like protests, rioting and looting all summer, woke reform of schools, anti-business, anti-capitalist and anti-gentrification attitudes of leftist activists, and voted GOP down ticket in a lot of states. But if you manage to help Democrats win state houses instead, then you can accomplish stuff like this:

      Maryland Passes Sweeping Police Reform Legislation

      The measures, enacted over the objections of Gov. Larry Hogan, placed the state at the forefront of a national debate over police brutality and officers’ excessive use of force.

      ​By Michael Levenson and Bryan Pietsch @ NYTimes.com, April 10, 2021

      Maryland lawmakers voted on Saturday to limit police officers’ use of force, restrict the use of no-knock warrants and repeal the nation’s first Bill of Rights for law enforcement, taking sweeping action to address police violence after nationwide demonstrations following the death of George Floyd.

      The Democratic-led legislature enacted the changes by overriding Gov. Larry Hogan’s vetoes during a session in which some Black lawmakers read aloud the names of people they said had been killed by police officers in the state.

      The changes placed Maryland at the forefront of a national debate over police brutality and the use of excessive force, a discussion that has gained intensity since Mr. Floyd was killed in police custody last year, setting off protests across the country. The legislation was passed in the middle of the trial of Derek Chauvin, a former Minneapolis police officer who is accused of the murder of Mr. Floyd by kneeling on his neck for more than nine minutes.

      “This is what the community wants — they want reform, they want transparency, and they want accountability,” said Caylin A. Young, public policy director of the A.C.L.U. of Maryland, which was part of a coalition of 90 groups that had backed the bills. “There needs to be a reimagining of what policing in Maryland looks like.”

      Mr. Hogan, a Republican, had vetoed the measures on Friday, saying their original intent had been “overtaken by political agendas that do not serve the public safety needs of the citizens of Maryland.” He said the changes would “further erode police morale, community relationships and public confidence.”

      Police groups also criticized the legislature’s action.

      “The reality is they have reinvented policing in the state of Maryland,” said Angelo Consoli, second vice president and legislative committee chairman of the Maryland Fraternal Order of Police. “They’re going to make it tougher for the police to police. There’s reform, and this went beyond reform.”

      The wide-ranging changes were intended to address many of the concerns raised by demonstrators who have protested police violence after the deaths of Mr. Floyd, Breonna Taylor and other Black people killed by officers.

      One section creates a new statewide use-of-force policy and says that officers who violate those standards, causing serious injury or death, can be convicted and sent to prison for up to 10 years. The standard says that force can be used only to prevent “an imminent threat of physical injury” to a person or to “effectuate a legitimate law enforcement objective.”

      The policy also says that force must be “necessary and proportional.” Police reform groups said that was a tougher standard than the traditional “reasonableness” standard, which they said was not sufficient for holding officers accountable for blatant acts of violence. Mr. Consoli said the change would deter the police from intervening in volatile situations and open them to more “Monday morning quarterbacking." [....]

      off thread but related to Maryland politics above, here's a nice thread that just appeared on the sort of egregious gerrymandering that can be fixed if you just have enough discipline to win state houses instead of turning swing voters off by things like, um, not speaking out about rioting and looting and burning police cars, using slogans like "defund police" and words like "socialism", producing images for viral consumption of marching through gentrified neighborhoods screaming at people to leave and attacking them eating outside at restaurants, etc..

      How much can gerrymandering swing elections? In the hypothetical Maryland map on the left, 4/8 districts would've voted for Trump by 5%+ in '20. In the one on the right, 8/8 would've voted for Biden by 15%+. Not kidding. pic.twitter.com/rjEqMSwdt5

      — Dave Wasserman (@Redistrict) April 10, 2021

      golly, imagine that, who'd thunk it:

      The Floyd show has just been superceded. So here we go again. I don't know what to think- all across America black parents have "the talk", yet in Minnesota they don't tell the kids "don't hang no air freshener off your damn rearview?" Or that when a cop says get out of the car, you prolly want to get out of the car, whatever your rights"? At least this white punk would - yeah, I've asked cops "what's this about?" and gotten the surly unhelpful response. Doesn't everyone know this? And while everyone's building up the riots, and waiting for the video to drop in a month showing something much more complex.

      [....] Several hours after a police officer fatally shot Daunte Wright in Brooklyn Center on Sunday afternoon, looters targeted as many as 20 stores around the Shingle Creek Crossing shopping mall area two miles away. At the Brooklyn Center police headquarters, nearly 500 protestors faced off with officers.

      National Guard troops arrived just before midnight as looters targeted the Brooklyn Center Walmart and nearby shopping mall. Several businesses around the Walmart were completely destroyed, including Foot Locker, T Mobile, and a New York men's clothing store.

      Looting was widespread late Sunday into early Monday, spilling into north and south Minneapolis. Reports said that stores in Uptown and along Lake Street were also being looted.

      Brooklyn Center Mayor Mike Elliott issued a curfew order until 6 a.m. Monday. Precautions were being taken into Monday, with Brooklyn Center canceling or closing all school buildings, programs and activities [....]

      from Minneapolis Star Tribune 

      Brooklyn Center police fatally shoot man, 20, inflaming tensions during the Derek Chauvin trial

      Man, 20, killed after being pulled over for traffic violation in Brooklyn Center 

      By Mara Klecker, Kim Hyatt, Mara Klecker and Kim Hyatt and Star Tribune staff

      APRIL 12, 2021 — 7:34AM

      there is photo slideshow, here's two of 45

      Spring weather - more pleasant to get your riot on

      here's local TV station report from this morning:

      Here's the mayor of Brooklyn Center who instituted those nasty overnight crackdowns:

      ^ can I just note there are these signs that say to me that he knows what he's doing here:

      • before press conference has meeting with "community leaders" with police chief, city council and other persons of power
      • for press conference, puts on conservative gray suit jacket with plain white shirt, flag pin prominent in lapel  (which Obama learned to do as well) to deliver scripted statement in a manner which doesn't sound scripted

      here someone dug up the warrant out on him that caused the P.O. to challenge:

      The "warrant" on #DaunteWright was over unpaid fines for 2 minor misdemeanors — one a marijuana case — totaling $346. He pled guilty, filed for deferred payment and they were sent to collections DURING A PANDEMIC. Then he was pulled over for car air fresheners and killed over it. pic.twitter.com/M387CvQlz9

      — Billy Corben (@BillyCorben) April 12, 2021

      Clearly, it's a horrifically unfair "you can't fight city hall, especially during a pandemic when no one's at work" type thing.

      But I've got to say this: if I had a warrant out on me, I wouldn't drive until I cleared it up. That's the kind of thing my parents taught me: police officers don't research shit like: is the warrant fair or not. And police officers are armed and dangerous.

      I'm not blaming the victim, and I agree it's horrible what happened. But like you, I'm talking about ways of keeping oneself safe. Time to be a grownup when you get to drive. And that would include: if you have a warrant out on you, STAY IN THE HOUSE AND DON'T GO NO WHERE until you clear up the unpaid warrant thing! Pandemic complications or not. Clearing up the warrant is priority #1. You're gambling with nightmare scenarios if you don't. I don't even drive if I have an expired inspection sticker..my father taught me to be too afraid of what might happen. Granted I don't think about getting shot, but I do think about getting handcuffed and spending an unnecessary night in a horrific jail and okay, now how do I get a lawyer and what happened to my car, etc....

      Must not let twitter misinfo. I  posted above pass without being corrected. Sorry about that. NYTimes' reporting says the above was not the outstanding warrant, rather, it was this

      The chief did not say what the warrant had been for, but court records indicate that a judge issued it earlier this month when Mr. Wright missed a court appearance. He was facing two misdemeanor charges after Minneapolis police said he had carried a pistol without a permit and had run away from officers last June 

      I have no idea whether the officer would know what the warrant was for, they might be coded in a certain way, they might not.

      also, this is something that I don't see reported much, that there was a girlfriend passenger (who was injured in the crash after he was shot?)

      Mr. Wright’s mother, Katie Wright, told reporters that her son had been driving a car that his family had just given him two weeks ago and that he had called her as he was being pulled over.

      “He said they pulled him over because he had air fresheners hanging from his rearview mirror,” she said. Ms. Wright added that her son had been driving with his girlfriend when he was shot. The police said a woman in the car had been hurt in the crash but that her injuries were not life-threatening.

      as well as that there were passengers in the car his car hit after being shot (but they would not be witnesses as he went "several blocks"?)


      Bottom line, the police chief says that the officer admitted she intended to deploy her Taser.

      Whatever, he did, it was not a death sentence.

      Decades ago i learned that if you (I) get in a car you give up many/most of your rights, simply because it's hard or nig impossible to enforce them in any kind of police encounter. I had a quite conservative professor - white, groomed hair, wore suits, smoked cigars - made a similar comment as he had tried to speak up at some unfair police encounter, and almost got his ass dragged downtown, so decided wasn't worth it. I like driving in Europe much better. Why do people think this a surprise though? You're in a car, even passenger, prepare to be searched and interrogated and feel like an outcast, whatever age or color.

      Your statements have nothing to do with the fact that an officer was so incompetent that she used a gun instead of a laser. 

      The Minnesota homicide victim was so scared of the police that he called his mother to inform her that he had been pulled over.

      The Army lieutenant in Virginia was so scared that he only pulled over after finding a lighted area.

      Cops want to go home at the end of the day

      Black people want to stay alive during an encounter the police

      There is no reason to believe that the cop who stopped you is rational

      Fear is a natural response

      In Virginia, there were simultaneous instructions to exit the vehicle  while also being told to keep his hands out the door

      The lieutenant said he was afraid to open the car door

      The officer told him that he should be afraid 

      In Brooklyn Center, a cop can't tell the difference in weight and feel between a gun and a Taser.

      Let's see what we find out about the histories of both officers 

      If he's so goddamned afraid, why's he got a fucking pinecone on his rearview, which is a guaranteed pullover? Why's he driving around if he has an arrest warrant? Why's he slow to get out of the car when they tell him to get out? How come fear only seems to make people do stupid things, not smart?

      This is all "dealing with police 101"

      None of what he did should result in death by incompetent cop

      Trevor Noah addresses the issue


      Absolutely, he's right.

      But it's also right that an arrest warrant can get you arrested. Which is the process that was happening in the video until he tried to flee.

      The narrative that he was just an innocent going about his business is not going to work with rational people. Pretty clear he was attempting to flee arrest in the video, he was being handcuffed.

      Just as the argument that the officer confused her gun with the stun gun may not fly with some people.

      I would never dare drive with an arrest warrant! Never, too dangerous that I would be caught. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and part of the deal of driving is a driver can be stopped at any time. This is in the updated NYTimes article: the police story conflicts with mom's story about the air freshener:  who the police said was stopped for driving a vehicle with an expired registration. No one is allowed to drive a vehicle with an expired registration, chances are high you will be stopped.

      And your heart starts pounding when they take your license and registration to their car to check on it even when you don't have an outstanding arrest warrant and have registered the car, maybe their computer is wrong.

      I am curious: What kind of family buys a 20 yr. old a car (Mr. Wright’s mother, Katie Wright, told reporters that her son had been driving a car that his family had just given him two weeks ago and that he had called her as he was being pulled over ) when he has an arrest warrant stemming from a gun charge and a baby son and doesn't make sure it is registered? Playing with fire, living a real risky life. Do you want gun registration to work in this country? Then those challenged about their gun have to show up in court. No he didn't deserve to be shot. Nor did any person he might shoot in the future.

      Here's the point: he should be afraid, he's got an outstanding arrest warrant concerning a gun. He shouldn't be out driving an unregistered car. He should be afraid enough not to drive.He wasn't afraid, he thinks he's special and can get away with stuff.

      Stopping him was completely in line. Trying to arrest him was completely in line.Nothing racist or wrong about either of those things. It's what I expect cops to do: protecting the community from someone driving without a registration who doesn't show up in court about a gun violation. I for one am not buying anything about this being racist, unless they can somehow get into Officer Potter's head and find that black males make her more confused than whites Holy shit, I just shot him,

      I did not focus on race.I focused on her incompetence .

      She as inept as the 73-year old pretend cop from Tulsa who shot a man because pretend cop mistook his gun for a Taser.


      This is not about a family buying a 20-year old scar, it is their money

      The cop was a training officer who was a screw-up..

      Well, virtually all the protests do focus on race. And I genuinely feel sorry for the people of the Minneapolis area who are now left with lots more incompetent cops since the "defunded" thing started in reaction to previous protests, and many competent police left for elsewhere, and now after this, surely they will not be able to attract any more competent police. Is now like the last place on earth that a competent person would apply. 

      The incompetent police training officer resigned


      If she was a training officer, why would we expect competence from the Brooklyn Center police department?

      Edit to add:

      The police chief quit as well.


      Training doesn't keep you from screwing up - it lowers the chances. People have emotions, they freak, they fumble, they overreact, they do the wrong thing. Guess that 1:50, 1:100 encounters will go off the rails. No one's going to praise the 49 or 99 done by the book - they'll focus on the mistake. The worse the mistake, the more the attention, and if more pressure is put on, more mistakes will be made. But there's no more pressure on criminals who shoot people, who beat spouses, who pass fake money, who skip court dates, who steal stuff in stores, who sell oppidan to junkies, and so on - all of social media breaks out defending and dismissing whatever behavior.

      I believe M.D.'s, both incompetent and competent but accidental, do far more damage to humans. Is why their malpractice insurance is so costly. Not to mention a lot of insurers play real nasty these days when someone tries to make a claim.

       But no big protests against them. Because they are presumed to be trying to help, not hurt, by most.

      Cops are presumed more and more to be authoritarian jack booted thugs, the enemy. That is partly a self-fulfilling prophecy for those who help to label them that way, i.e. more and more authoritarian thugs seek the job.

      I don't know how to solve that. Require everyone who reads a bad story about cops read the counterpoint of a PD twitter feed that is naturally filled with all the good stuff they accomplish every day?

      Or we could go whole hog anarchist and publish more malpractice stories about M.D.s maiming and killing people, or just making them sicker, which happens every day. There are certainly internet forums where you can find many of these victim stories, I've run across them myself.

      I am not exaggerating. See this 2017 paper.at Pub Med Even if they are exaggerating, cut their number by 2/3, what the heck:

      Recent studies of medical errors have estimated errors may account for as many as 251,000 deaths annually in the United States (U.S)., making medical errors the third leading cause of death. Error rates are significantly higher in the U.S. than in other developed countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany and the United Kingdom (U.K). At the same time less than 10 percent of medical errors are reported. This study describes the results of an investigation of the effectiveness of the implementation of the MEDMARX Medication Error Reporting system in 25 hospitals in Pennsylvania. Data were collected on 17,000 errors reported by participating hospitals over a 12-month period....

      Where's the outrage? It's all at cops, it's in people's heads. Now fueled by phone videos, which no one gets to do during a medical operation. They integrate the forces and they're still the same enemy, white supremacy bogeyman.

      We don't praise the pilots who land aircraft every day.

      There is a detailed investigations when pilot error is suspected.

      Criminals who shoot people and are caught go to jail.

      Attention is not going to be diverted from police misbehavior.

      There will be no deal crafted that says crime has to decrease before police officers can be brought to justice.

      Pilots don't deal with crazed drugged out murderers - security screens out guns and over-intoxicated. If 20,000 murders happened in the air each year, pilots would demand whole different protections. Nor do pilots have to worry much about other planes or pilots, or random gunfire from the ground. And if security tells a passenger of whatever color to sit down and they don't, the plane lands and they walk the uncooperative person off the plane, likely to jail. Not a lot of leeway for an opioid-filled passenger dancing around in the aisle during takeoff or when told to sit down. Oh, don't try passing fake money to the stewardess for that beer or duty free. Totally bad news, federal crime.

      When planes crash, there is an investigation 

      When unarmed people are killed or harassed by police, there are investigations 

      A pulmonologist and a cardiologist testified that Fentanyl and cardiac problems were not responsible for Floyd's death.

      The police screwed up

      The Brooklyn Center police officer admitted to screwing up

      The Virginia officer screwed up.

      When unarmed ppl pass stolen money, act crazy high, resist arrest, police often respond, shockingly enough. I know you have a rulebook where anything a black person does is excused, but it's more complex than that, sorry to say. Not completely open to abuse, thus the trial plus the responsibility once Floyd stopped responding, but still, they did have reason to detain him.

      Floyd stopped responding

      Chauvin killed George Floyd

      Floyd had a fake 20$ bill

      So, George Floyd can be murdered by police with the public's blessing.

      Hardly "blessing" but go ahead and frame it fucked up stupid as always to try to score some point. Meanwhile the trial determines what role the knee vs drugs/adrenalin played in death and when Chauvin & others should have administered aid. Chauvin's stupidity and pathetic was is largely irrelevant. *Why* he kept yelling "I can't breathe" in the car still is a key detail to understand, despite all the self-assured "expert" testimony - i haven't heard it out in context aside from ignoring, but i haven't watched all proceedings.

      See below

      Perfect enemy of the good?

      Black people want to stay alive during an encounter the police

      Then why is it in so many of these cases the person shot is resisting arrest, refusing to obey orders, or trying to flee? I've had encounters with cops several times over the years and even when I felt I was treated unfairly these are things I never even thought to try. None of these things are capital offenses and they shouldn't have been shot but still.  We hear often about the "talk" black parents have with their kids. I doesn't seem like fight back, disobey orders, and try to flee would be part of that talk.

      There is no excuse for the deaths of George Floyd or Duarte Wright.

      Police are allowed to be full of fear

      Citizens can be just as fearful of police.

      The Army lieutenant in Virginia was trying to comply, but full of fear.

      wanna hear my imagined narrative, oceankat? I think Whyte would still be alive today if he told the truth to his mother. I have four younger brothers and saw how several of them lied to my parents or hid stuff from them, sometimes real important stuff, because they thought it would make them think less of them.  He was lying to his mother on the phone about being pulled over for an air freshener. That's because he didn't want her to know that the car wasn't registered and he had a warrant for not showing up in court. If he had told her the truth, she would have screamed: do exactly what they tell you to do, don't say anything, don't challenge them, don't question anything, let them take you to jail and we'll get you out and get a lawyer. The reason parents just want the truth, not some made up story about being harassed that makes you look like an angel, is because they want to help you stay alive and well, no matter how naughty you are.

      Officer thought she was firing a Taser

      BROOKLYN CENTER, Minn. — The police officer who killed a man in a Minneapolis suburb on Sunday did so accidentally, officials said Monday, releasing a graphic body-camera video that appeared to depict the officer shouting, “Taser!” before firing her gun.

      “It is my belief that the officer had the intention to deploy their Taser, but instead shot Mr. Wright with a single bullet,” Chief Tim Gannon of the Brooklyn Center Police Department said of the shooting on Sunday of Daunte Wright, 20, during a traffic stop. “This appears to me, from what I viewed, and the officer’s reaction and distress immediately after, that this was an accidental discharge that resulted in a tragic death of Mr. Wright.”

      The officer, who was not publicly identified, has been placed on administrative leave, officials said. Chief Gannon said that Mr. Wright had been initially pulled over because of an expired registration on the vehicle he was driving. The video showed a brief struggle between Mr. Wright and police officers before one of the officers fired her gun.

      After the officer fired, she is heard on the video saying, “Holy shit. I just shot him.”


      Edit to add:

      The looters will go to jail




      here's the video of the police chief saying that and adding lots of details about training with tasers

      "Accidental discharge" euphemistic bs. It was gross negligence resulting in the death of a young man.

      A simple rule that all cops from this 2 bit town always have their handguns safety engaged would add a step that would likely prevent confusion as to which weapon you held, adding a step before the trigger would work. The Chief is as much responsible for poor training and policies.


      law-professor-who-used-to-be-a-Republican-now-an-Independent Richard Painter says:

      this guy has a thought-provoking take; makes very good points that a lot of Minneapolis area cops now on the job definitely know what they have gotten themselves into and the devil's bargain they have made staying on the job. Especially if you have followed the full story, that many quit following Geo. Floyd riots and lack of support from local politicians, even to the point of many local pols going for defunding, and then after seeing skyrocketing crime, pols changed their mind, have tried to hire more cops but are having a tough time, not exactly a desirable job. He is basically saying: much higher percentage of bad apple cops left around those parts now. And that furthermore, they are lily-livered and the others are arrogants who would let their cities burn just to prove a point that that would happen.




      I ain't even playing

      Police in Minnesota deserve maximum scrutiny
      They know what went down last year, they know the consequences

      They chose to stand by everything that happened and they will reap what they have sown https://t.co/6e16aRa5Du

      — Tim Pool (@Timcast) April 12, 2021

      This cop is gunna get charged with murder in an effort to prevent unrest (which won't work)

      This cop will be fired and locked up

      And I say


      They know exactly who they serve and exactly what the consequences are https://t.co/7VabCLU2LB

      — Tim Pool (@Timcast) April 12, 2021

      Many cops quit and left cities that were willing to sacrifice them to stop riots

      The media lied to smear some cops over and over

      Yet some of these arrogant cops thought they would be complacent and watch their cities burn

      They could have stood up

      They get what they deserve

      — Tim Pool (@Timcast) April 12, 2021

      titus uses two crucial words, mho, there is now a "low bar" for area cops, panicky cops are not what you want

      "NYC Antifa" just retweeted this:

      after tweeting this:

      and this

      and this

      Official BLM has only tweeted this so far:

      Sergio and Justin Yau will no doubt be tweeting the developing in Portland. I think this is enough for me, I've seen the rest before.

      A former Minneapolis police officer is on trial for murder

      A policewoman shot and killed a 20-year old man, apparently by accident, in a city near Minneapolis 

      There is no guarantee that either officer will be convicted

      Many have no trust in the police or the justice system 

      The protests against the police are predictable 

      Gun homicides are increasing in multiple cities.

      Those types of homicides cannot be lumped in with homicides committed by police.



      "No Go Zone"?!!!

      38th and Elliot, 4 males with guns yelling at people. #NoGoZone, so no cops being sent unless there's a victim reported.

      — CrimeWatchMpls (@CrimeWatchMpls) April 13, 2021

      They also have tweets on the curfews enacted, barriers erected and have been tweeting regularly about police and and protesters' actions, including some photos, along with regular crime reports.

      But they aren't splaining that one that I can see.

      Minneapolis Star Tribune reporter Liz Sawyer was live tweeting videos from from a protest tonight after curfew, here are her last 5:

      striking Star Tribune video from a daytime protest:

      Interesting chart he pulled up and question (I have no idea what website he is using):

      I was going to respond to PP's comment above

      I think that I will just await the decision of the Chauvin trial and whether charges are brought against the officer who murdered Duante Wright.

      Edit to add:

      The officer who murdered Duante.Wright was a training officer.

      Chauvin was a training officer.

      gee, I've read over at BLM and their confreres that the courts are rigged:

      Abolitionist protestors, advocating for a society without police or prisons, set fire to the Portland police association building

      The building was empty, it has been a frequently targeted by protestors

      The PPA is one of the oldest police unions in the country pic.twitter.com/F4OP8wgmJZ

      — Sergio Olmos (@MrOlmos) April 14, 2021

      Last summer in Portland there were over 100 days of consecutive protests for racial justice.

      Tonight abolitionist protesters wrote Daunte Wright and ACAB on the Portland police association building and then sit it on fire pic.twitter.com/N4vxpn8GyR

      — Sergio Olmos (@MrOlmos) April 14, 2021

      same reported by Justin Yau here.


      official BLM retweeted this on the Duante Wright case:

      The claim the police only intended to use a Taser on #DaunteWright doesn’t mean they had any regard for his life. People die from Tasers - it’s a false narrative that it is an “alternative” to deadly force. Both are weapons police use to kill.

      — SV De-Bug (@svdebug) April 12, 2021

      which would be consistent with their belief that there should not be any police nor courts, so there would be no arrests for warrants, as there would be no warrants. And that police are overall just wannabe killers.

      But I also see that 12 hours ago there is also a long thread of tweeted complaints by them about Patrice Cullors being maligned and terrorized by right wing white supremacists, continuing a long tradition of terror against black activists, inducing fear. And it makes me wonder how they would accomplish their dream world if these people are still around, without police and courts. Rigid segregation with electric fencing and border guards? Race war? And since the reality is there are still police and courts, would they feel a right-wing miscreant, a Proud Boy, say, trying to flee arrest for a outstanding warrant for gun issues by getting in his car and driving away should not be stopped by a taser used by police either? Should the police get in a car chase after him and possibly cause accidents? Or if he manages to escape their handcuffing,. should they just let him run until he's ready to turn himself in?

      BLM has nothing to do with the fact that a police training officer could not tell the difference between a Taser and her gun

      She murdered a 20-year old

      Nothing Duante did warranted the death penalty

      Nice attempt at diversion

      "Talking to Strangers" by Malcolm Gladwell (he's half Jamaican)

      Who owned Mercedes SUV?

      Floyd fell asleep before cops showed up?


      Fentanyl OD leads to a decrease in respiratory rate

      Floyd's respiratory rate was at a high level because he was struggling to breathe 

      Fentanyl was not the cause of Floyd's death

      None of your posts support Chauvin choking Floyd to death

      Why was he struggling to breathe in the back seat (gasping "i can't breathe!"), as he was getting into the ground, before any knee? Isn't it kind of useful to understand what was happening a few minutes before? 

      Chauvin applied 90 pounds to Floyd's neck for 9:29

      A person with a normal heart and lungs would have died

      Chauvin murdered Floyd

      It does not matter what when on in 2019 or after Floyd stopped resisting in 2020

      I'm asking what went on 5 mins before those 9:29 started, when Floyd still couldn't breathe.

      You like this advocating stuff. Any other billboard slogans for us?

      BTW, should the gov have taken the plea deal for 10 yrs/3rd degree murder, or would that have ruined your fun?

      You like this advocating stuff. Any other billboard slogans for us?

      BINGO! Part of the problem, not the solution: population with mass delusion into stoking anti-authoritarian narratives. Someone's going to write a novel about it all in fifty years,something along lines of Fear and Loathing of Police and Government in The Time of Covid.

      What Floyd said before he was on the ground doesn't matter.

      The only thing that matters is that he was choke to death by Chauvin.

      Chauvin is the person on trial.

      Are you ignorant or deluded? Take your time. I mean, there's a difference in a manslaughter vs murder charge that depends in part on the difference between Chauvin-caused death and any non-Chauvin issues, but keep repeating your stupid mindless phrases - "hey ho, hey ho, Chauvin has got to go..."

      Hopefully, Chauvin will go.

      Well, pretty sure he's not returning to the police force whatever happens.

      Wrong, I'm presenting a tweet endorsed by BLM on the issue. I'm not diverting anything. They are saying police shouldn't use a taser either.

      Police should gamble their own life and the public safety when a suspect with a warrant out attempts to flee arrest, just let him go?

      Because after all, he looked like a nice fellow? Here's a comment about another nice fellow who was successful and did some good things, and also some very bad things I just posted about on the other thread along with another story about another reasonably successful guy

       “People are complicated man…damn.” 

      A lot of those "people are complicated" stories don't go viral. But cops have nonetheless seen a lot of them up close and personal, and more often lately.

      I just wonder like, what does official BLM think about hate crimes? Don't arrest them but send the social workers and psychologists? What if they won't answer the phone or the door and don't keep their appointments (just like Mr. Whyte didn't show up in court) because they're out committing more hate crimes because there are no consequences except social workers bugging you?

      Heck, what about Officer Potter, why should she even show up in court, why respect the rule of law, why not flee to Mexico instead? After all, the court system needs to be done away with...what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

      The Brooklyn Center training officer who could not differentiate a Taser from a gun will be charged with manslaughter 


      Appropriately so! Also seems to me to be the most correct of the several charges against Derek Chauvin as welll; his jury will decide. And I am hoping that people will not protest against his jury's decision!

      So: I wish more would explain what the protests and outrage are really about.

      Again, a good comparison is lot of victims of medical malpractice don't get such justice. They don't  get viral videos about their cases that suggest a narrative that police abuse is an epidemic going on everywhere all the time and that deserves constant national attention and priority. They don't get nationwide protests and related riots and looting and calls for abolition of the practice of medicine. The practice of medicine does not get vilified

      When facts, numbers, suggest that the real epidemics causing far more harm are elsewhere.

      Not just including a pandemic but of civilians shooting other civilians with guns. Not enough narrative and outrage about that, it's a real epidemic. And I don't see any answer except policing, more social workers are just not going to do the trick. Biden was correct when he said more police, not fewer, are needed. The constant protesting about police and stoking of outrage and viral coverage of the outrage as if they are all Derek Chavin types is very counterproductive to the goal of hiring more good police, "the narrative" is counterproductive to saving human lives and having a society where the rule of law works. Rather it promotes anarchy (if Russian trolls can see how destructive this is, why can't we?)

      A fact: police with public jobs were on duty, could NOT work from home but had to work, had close interaction with the public, with little social distancing in 2020

      Study finds more active-duty police officers died of COVID-19 in 2020 than all other causes combined

      FEBRUARY 25, 2021


      [....] “COVID-19 is absolutely devastating police departments around the country,” said Singer, also deputy director of the Begun Center for Violence Prevention Research and Education at the Mandel School. “I’m certain there are local departments that have been ravaged by this disease, as well as our hospitals’ staff, firemen and EMS. We need to do everything we can to promote healthy, safe first responders.”

      The data does not include how many police officers were forced to miss work days because of COVID-19. However, the NLEOMF report noted that 145 police officers nationally died from complications related to the novel coronavirus. The organization verifies each reported death, according to its website.

      COVID-19-related fatalities were the single highest cause of officer line-of-duty deaths in 2020.

      “By far,” Singer said. “It’s not even close.”[....]




      2020 had the highest number of law enforcement line-of-duty deaths since 1974.

      Firearms-related fatalities were the second most common cause of officer deaths, with 48 officers killed in 2020. This represents a 6% decrease from the 51 officers killed in firearms-related incidents during the same period in 2019. The leading circumstance of firearms-related fatalities was officers investigating suspicious persons or activities, followed by attempting an arrest. Ambush attacks leading to officers’ deaths remained constant compared to the same period the previous year.[....] 

       NYC Transit workers assaulted 1,100 times in six months, union pushes for more cops

      By  @ AMNY.com, April 13

      What did they do to deserve this?

      New York City Transit workers on subways and buses were assaulted, spit at, menaced or harassed about 1,088 times in the last six months, according to MTA data — leading the union representing them to call for cops in more strategic parts of the system.

      The NYC Transit Committee Book provides some details on the incidents and Transport Workers Union Local 100 says this is cause for an increased police presence not at turnstiles where fare beating takes place, but on platforms and rolling stock where employees get the most amount of grief.

      “Riders and transit workers are safer, and feel safer, when they see uniformed police officers on platforms and trains — and buses. Transit workers are sick and tired of being attacked and menaced. If a cop doesn’t deter criminal behavior at least he or she is there to arrest the individual,” Local 100 President Tony Utano said. “We don’t need police at the turnstiles. We need them on the platforms, trains and on buses.”

      The MTA has revived its effort to hire 500 new cops in effort to get some members of the public to walk a straight line after a hiring freeze, due to the pandemic, was put in place throughout the course of 2020. This came in light of attacks on four homeless New Yorkers that led to the deaths of two individuals in February.

      At that time, Police Commissioner Dermot Shea announced a surge of 500 NYPD uniformed patrols in the subways, but MTA officials asked for 1,000.

      The riding public seems to concur that the subways feel less safe than they used to.

      A recent survey conducted by the MTA found that fewer and fewer commuters are uneasy riding the trains, with 72% of regular riders reporting feeling very concerned with crime and harassment as of late. On trains themselves, the public noted satisfaction with crime and harassment decreasing by 16.4 percentage-points to 26%, with 47% dissatisfied.

      “Our customer survey data could not be more clear: Concerns over safety are top of mind for current riders, and for those looking to return to transit,” MTA spokesperson Abbey Collins said. “An overwhelming majority of 76% of customers say seeing a uniformed presence in the system makes them feel safer. We know that if our riders feel safe from crime and safe from COVID, they will come back to transit and back to the city – and we are throwing every resource at continually tackling these issues to keep breaking ridership milestones day after day as New York reopens.” [....]

      ^ asking for MORE COPS and MORE ARRESTS, not mental health workers. Many transit workers are P.O.C., BTW. Many have also died from covid, BTW. And what do they get for being on duty? Abuse and very little gratitude. All they want is: more police.

      but admittedly transit workers didn't have to deal with huge protests, looting and curfews to enforce with reduced forces, at the same time their coworkers sick with Covid, who nonetheless showed up for duty, if not trying to breathe from covid infections, to handle: Brooklyn brats deciding they absolutely needed to practice their first amendment rights during a pandemic on the streets instead of on the internet. 

      that's my narrative of 2020 in NYC, that's what I saw.

      Your posts have important information, but have nothing to do with the murders committed by police officers in the cases George Floyd and Duante Wright.

      They also have no bearing on the terror Lt. Caron Nazario experienced.

      Begs the question: what is the goal of continuing protests about the Daunte Wright shooting?

      To scream and yell that life is unfair and bad things happen? Get back at the Dollar Store for renting a place in your hood? A replacement for closed nightclubs?

      What it looks like to many who aren't participating: you are not happy with government by black Democratic mayors and black Democratic state attorney generals.

      This is what rapid justice looks like; they're working their ass off. This is the best there is in history. Certainly lots of protesters in Myamar aren't getting the same deal, they're getting shot dead. Many murder victim's families  are still waiting for someone to find the perp because he/she wasn't wearing a bodycam with footage that is revealed right away.

       Sometimes I really do see the logic in swing voters voting Republican, as they see the message loud and clear that protesters aren't happy with black Democrats running things.

      Are we absolutely sure continued protesting isn't being stoked by people with a nefarious agenda?


      Law enforcement is arresting people who break the law.

      Protesters are being met by police in riot gear.

      It seems like hundreds of people are showing up to protest

      A fraction of those hundreds appear to be engaging in criminal activity

      Let's judge the entire Black community in Brooklyn Center by the criminal element.

      p.s. He did ask the 12th for this help in continuing to run the country:

      Of course, there's that a lot of BLM protesters over the last year liked to chant "fuck Joe Biden" or put the same slogan in graffiti. Should those people really be considered allies of the Democratic party?

      MSNBC is broadcasting that there are fewer people protesting tonight then in the days before.

      White lady with blond hair and radical political views involved with riot going on. No taser, no problem, go ahead and shoot to kill (other people's lives in danger?). Any protest? Lawsuit?

      Case Closed: Unidentified Police Officer Who Shot and Killed Ashli Babbitt on Jan. 6 Won’t Be Chargedhttps://t.co/iNz11YoCpD

      — Law & Crime (@lawcrimenews) April 15, 2021

      Absolutely no difference between crashing into the Capitol with a group of rioters and the guy in Virginia getting pepper sprayed 

      No difference between crashing in the Capitol and being choked to death to death for a fake $20 bill

      No difference between crashing into the Capitol and a police training officer mistaking a gun for a Taser

      Each event is the same

      Protestors in Brooklyn Center are being arrested on the scene

      Protestors at the Capitol were allowed to leave and had to be tracked down in their home towns.

      Dumb comparisons with counterfactuals don't help you look sane. The Capitol Hill & Metro police didn't have near enough on duty by a long shot to detain rioters, *plus* many of them were in video and had cell records inside the Capitol (i e. illegal presence) to be traceable later.

      Floyd wasn't choked to death over a $20 bill. He was apprehended in a car (prolly doing drugs with his dealer who gave him the fake $20) over a $20 bill. He was put on the ground because he wouldn't go in the police car - the police did what "Floyd" asked them to do (all while complaint about breathing). So Floyd died went on the ground and was restrained while he was kicking and thrashing about. Still all good. At some point thereafter the restraining and/or Floyd's physical/drug issues got too much and he died without the police properly checking up on him. So Floyd didn't die from a fake $20 - he died from his choices, freaked reactions, plus police's neglect of duty for a suspect in their care, and maybe excessive force/likely excessive time in a stress position to restrain Floyd.

      BTW, where'd the Mercedes SUV come from that they were doing drugs in? Maybe not the latest model, but a pretty cherry ride for a bunch of addicts to be hanging out in.

      Floyd and Wright died of the incompetence of two police training officers.

      If the training officers are this stupid, what do you expect from cops on the street.

      Absolutely nothing that Floyd or Wright did should have resulted in death. Period.

      Minneapolis paid out $47 million because of police incompetence 

      Brooklyn Center is going to pay out money because of inept behavior by the police.

      Floyd breathing complaints do not justify a homicide.

      The Mercedes SUV is of zero importance in the homicide.

      You know if the stupid bugger wasn't jamming opioids up his ass, he might not have had to pass counterfeit bills, so he might not be picked up by the police for the 8th/9th time, so it sure as fuck is important, even if the cops were negligent and wow, maybe not the smartest dudes around - and there i thought cops were all einsteins. Personal responsibility goes a long way towards keeping yourself out of accidents and from being on the wrong side of malicious mischief. I mean, 88,000 died of opioids last year, 20k were murdered, and while it sucks that the thing with Floyd happened, i have much more sympathy for Sandra Bland or all these innocent victims of stupid flying bullets from drugged up vindictive psychopaths. I also had more sympathy for the kid who got picked up and they put him in the back of a van unsecured and whipped him around til dead. *That* was vindictive. *This* looks just irresponsible, and in my book the former's worse.

      The police receive CPR training. They did not apply CPR. They did not allow a firefighter to help.

      The cause of death was lack of oxygen, not use of recreational drugs.

      Chauvin's lack of personal responsibility caused the death of George Floyd.

      The police also receive training on non-compliant suspects, yet each time you excuse the non-compliant behavior and put all on the cops. What happened with Reyshard (sp?) and Floyd is not all that different from this hospital scene, the grappling, the misleading statements.... So if they get someone in a safe position, they're not likely to change it considering the suspect might then bolt and run, grab a weapon, attack the cops, etc. There are a lot of cops killed each year - 89 killed in 2019, more in 2020 due to Covid. No big protests backing police who were killed. Blue Lives do matter - not at an indifferent exchange for the public, like the teen with his hands up, but in other situations, yes.

      Carotid pressure on Quora (from years ago)

      First of all, most of movies talk about jugular, which is the vein, and it's damage can be reduced applying some pressure.

      The carotid, on the other hand is the artery that supply blood to the brain. In matter of fact we have 2 carotid arteries and 2 vertebral arteries responsible for brain oxygenation. We also have a polygon of collateral circulation that manage to provide blood to the brain if one of the arteries is lost (it is not complete in everyone).

      old trials state that carotid ligation has almost 50% is stroke risk. Ligation mean blood flow stop in one carotid.

      You can cause a stroke or death by occluding the common carotid artery. But this would usually take occluding both of them (left and right), unless the person’s cerebral circulation is already structurally compromised (e.g., congenitally or due to advanced atherosclerosis). And the amount of pressure required to occlude one or both carotids is significant.

      Dont know if there was any trial talk about Floyd's left carotid artery.

      Choke-out / blood choke


      Chokeholds can be divided into two primary categories: "blood chokes" and "air chokes". A blood choke disrupts blood circulation to the brain, while an air choke disrupts breathing. Blood chokes can be applied to efficiently cause loss of consciousness, i.e. a choke-out, while air chokes do not usually cause loss of consciousness without prolonged application (though air chokes are used to cause discomfort).

      Blood chokes constrain or disrupt blood circulation to the brain. This is accomplished by compressing one or both of the carotid arteries and/or the jugular veins, ideally with little to no pressure applied to the airway. However, it is very rare and difficult to accomplish by compressing only one side.

      One theory on the mechanics of choke-outs claims that unconsciousness results from the direct constraint of blood flow to the brain, causing cerebral hypoxia.[1]

      Another more complex theory states that as pressure is applied to the carotid artery, baroreceptors (the body's natural blood pressure monitors) within the artery are also compressed. When they sense too much pressure in an artery that feeds the brain (such as those in the neck), they signal the brain to dilate (widen) its blood vessels in order to relieve pressure (baroreflex causing vasodilation). Since blood pressure has not actually increased as the brain thinks it has, the dilation causes pressure to drop dramatically, and can be sufficient to cause cerebral hypoxia.

      Twitter special section 21 min. ago: Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot calls for peace as officials release footage of the police shooting of 13-year-old Adam Toledo pick and chose your preferred coverage at link

      Summary: Hours before the release of the police shooting death of 13-year-old video Adam Toledo in March, Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot told reporters that she has seen the clip and warned Chicagoans to brace themselves for the "extremely difficult" images. Lightfoot described the body camera video as "excruciating" and later advised for parents to shield their children from it.

      My reminders:

      • She's a black Democrat. In charge and responsible for what happens in that city. Not white, not Republican and not conservative. Trump is gone. (Query: so protesting her rule means: what, exactly?)
      • There's never any peace in Chicago. Shootings are going on by civilians every day, day in, day out, including lots of children.

      Edit to add new link on twitter that started trending while I was posting this: "Adam Toledo"

      lots of children

      A few weeks later another 13 yr. old also died, shot dead by a 12-yr. old in a Maryland parking lot filled with like 100  "innocent" "unruly kids" hanging out, regularly dropped off there by their parents. His mother and the police and mayor has something to say about who is responsible for that.

      Prince George's County remembers 13-year-old shooting victim killed by 12-year-old

      Prince George's County Police charged a 12-year-old DC boy in connection to Douglas' death Monday.

      by John Henry @ wusa9.com, Updated April 19



      FORESTVILLE, Md. — Hundreds of people gathered in a Prince George’s County parking lot Monday to remember a 13-year-old boy who lost his life to gun violence.

      Prince George’s County Police charged a 12-year-old DC child with first-degree murder Monday in connection to the death of King Douglas, 13, of Upper Marlboro.

      Police say the 12-year-old shot Douglas and stabbed another 13-year-old at a shopping center located on the 1700 block of Ritchie Station Court in Capitol Heights Saturday night. The other 13-year-old has since been released from the hospital.

      The Prince George’s County State’s Attorney’s office says the 12-year-old remains in custody.

      A candlelight vigil in honor of Douglass took place Monday evening in the same parking lot where he was killed. Douglas’s mother said she appreciated the support shown to her family by the community.

      “I’m suffering,” said Douglas’ mother Jaka McKnight. “My son is suffering. My daughter is out here somewhere suffering. We don’t have my son.”


      Prince George’s County Executive Angela Alsobrooks has shown up to a vigil to remember 13-yo King Douglas. A 12-yo has been charged in connection to his murder, Saturday, in Capitol Heights. (@wusa9) pic.twitter.com/0kiQGlcAW2

      — John Henry (@JohnHenryWUSA) April 19, 2021


      McKnight said she had dropped her son off to go to Dave & Buster's nearby shortly before this incident happened Saturday. She pleaded with local children to stop any disagreements they may have with one another.

      “It’s not that serious, that beef is not that serious,” she said. “All that stuff you all are doing for Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, whatever else, it’s not that serious.”

      This is not the first time gun violence has affected Douglas’s family either. Douglas’s father was paralyzed due to gun violence, according to his grandmother.

      Prince George’s County Executive Angela Alsobrooks attended the vigil. She said as a mother she could not imagine the pain the Douglass family is going through.



      “This does not reflect on these children,” she said. “It reflects on us. When a child is able to die, in a community like this, it says something. Not about the children, but it says something about society, it says something about the work that we have to do.”




      Jesus, yes it say something about the children too, even if they're not adults yet. "I shouldn't blow away my classmate" is pretty obvious in kindergarten, right up there with "play nice with others". *Something* is demanded if the wild kids even if adults are negligent - it's not like you leave 1 part outta the equation, the part that pulled the trigger.

      I have a new attitude after reading the above about the Adam Toledo shooting and protests about it. I think it will have ,maybe zero effect on any reform of the CPD. I do think it will have some good effect on reforming parents who let their 13 yr. old kids out at night in high crime neighborhoods to hang out with older kids that are like, trying to sell guns and other kids who are into fighting. That is the good effect it will have. Because it's very likely if he had not met up with the P.O. that night, he probably would be shot dead soon anyways. I'm on board with King Douglas' mom, parents need to change "the talk", it's on them. The police are not your babysitters, they are trying to fight the gun crime going on by older people in your neighborhoods. If you live in a high-crime neighborhood, it's your job to protect your kids. You can let them out at night when you manage to find the money to move to a safer place where they aren't selling guns on the street corner and his friends have one and he wants one too.

      Oh look here's more "bias confirmation" that keeping em home at night saves lives:

      Chauvin trial has closed:

      Wasow basically specializes in studying what shifts public opinion and what doesn't as far as activism is concerned:

      Still bizarre Barr turned down a guilty plea for 10 years.

      And after 2 weeks of hearing police exclaim over and over how they do things by the book, we have a cop mistake a gun for a taser, another shoot a 13-year-old, another abuse a military officer, etc. Funny at the end the the Pat Robertson the woman says, "maybe they need more training", as if recognizing a bright yellow plastic taser needs a lot of training, or that more training might make them worse.

      1 detail that still gets me is Floyd exclaiming, "my mother just died". His mother died 2 years before, and he was 46 years old. There's something weirdly regressive about the whole thing.

      I still wonder what registered with the jury. I don't get the sense the defense did a very good job, but it's still a mystery til they announce.

      I have a possible explanation for  a cop "accidently" shooting someone in a tense situation. A couple years ago I watched a video in which several cops surrounded a black man on the ground. They all had pistols drawn and aimed at him. For no apparent reason at all one of the cops [happened to be a woman] shot the guy. Another cop said why did you shoot him and she answered in a frightened vice, "I don't know".  What I feel sure of in that case is that her pistol had a hair trigger, quite possibly adjusted to have a significantly lighter trigger pull than stock. A flinch or slight tightening of the hand can fire the gun. Target shooters and gun nuts like a hair trigger because the force required to pull harder tends to deflect the aim. 

      I just appreciate hearing the anecdote, essence of human error. Too often I think people search for a "motive" (i.e.racism) with cops especially, but often enough there is: none.

      She said that she did not know why she shot the man

      She did not say that she did not mean to shoot the man.

      In the English language, "I did not mean to shoot him" is one of the possible interpretations of "I don't know".
      Enjoy your time in America. Take only photos, leave only footprints.

      I don't know why I pulled the trigger means "I fucked up."

      Edit to add:

      The guy was on the ground

      There was no threat

      She still pulled the trigger

      No different than Chauvin saying Floyd was a big guy who had to be controlled, even after Floyd was dead

      Bring on competent police.

      There you go, hyper-interpreting to spin it with your bias - can never look at things neutrally, always a partisan.

      ETA: and Lulu was pretty clear - she simply didn't know, except he suspected a hair trigger sharing the blame how you took it in another direction... As always.

      You are the one asking about a Mercedes SUV as if that was why Chauvin choked Floyd to death.

      Compare the testimony of the prosecution witnesses from the chief of police, to the head of the training officers, to the pulmonary and cardiology specialists and compare it to the testimony the defense witnesses in the Floyd case.

      You are the one who is biased and acting like a defense attorney 

      You are biased.

      If the police officer in the above situation shot a guy surrounded and on the ground, the officer is a screw up.

      "I don't know" could also mean I'm pissed that I had to run after this guy, but I'm not going to say that out loud.

      There you go again - in Lulu's telling there's no indication she had to run at all, but in your head you invent a chase thing. Amazing.

      You argue that she put pressure on the trigger without realizing it

      I imagine a situation where there had to be deliberate pressure put on the trigger for the gun to fire.

      There is nothing to suggest the trigger was modified

      you are really being absurd now, all that we know is Lulu sharing his own personal thoughts about an anecdote.

      No absurdity

      A certainty that the officer carried a gun with a hair trigger was stated.

      I think that a hair trigger could lead to the possibility of the gun firing if the officer fell

      That represents a danger to the officer a the public.

      In my scenario, the officer has to apply a deliberate amount of pressure for the gun to fire.

      The hair trigger was mentioned as a possibility 

      I mentioned the possibility that the officer who shot the guy on the ground was pissed off

      You make both of these statements in the same comment.

      "A certainty that the officer carried a gun with a hair trigger was stated."

      "The hair trigger was mentioned as a possibility." 

      The second is correct. 


      Mesnt to erase the first

      And here's what I see on this thread: I see someone who thinks all police are liars and possible murderers, vs. like, the NYPD commissioner thinking that people who spray paint the slogan "kill cops" are just "knuckleheads". Which is the more rational person that I could trust to not make hysterical presumptions?

      I mentioned that the police chief and training officers testified against Chauvin, breaking the blue wall of silence

      I said police lie all the time.

      When you read police reports of events, then watch the video, the lies become apparent.

      I did not say, all police lie all the time.

      The Blue Wall says Chauvin was an outlier, that they normally do things by the book. That's the hill you want to die on?

      The classic Blue Wall does not have the chief, training officers, etc testifying against a fellow officer.

      could. This requires getting inside her head. Trials and juries are the system we have set up to do that, it's the best we've got, it's all we got. To paraphrase Churchill: the worst of all systems except for all the others. Deal with the reality of an imperfect world, everything is not a conspiracy. Only religious conservatives believe there is natural order with rules with a god directing everything that happens. The rest of us deal with the reality that there are imperfections to every system humans invent to try to have civilization because: change is the only constant.

      I think the comparison with surgeon malpractice resulting in death is helpful. If they make deadly mistakes, even if innocent of bad intent, they are liable for damages. If they make incompetent mistakes they can lose their license to practice. (And there's also this comparison: M.D.s who set up practices with deadly risky procedures because they are money makers are also sometimes criminally prosecuted.)

      Have to admit some people claim racism is operative here as well. Instead of  what I believe: mostly lousy doctors are willing to accept Medicaid insurance, i.e., both minority ghettoes and poor white rural areas will see a high amount of lousy medical care.

      We unfortunately can't convince those determined to bend every single bad thing to a narrative of a white supremacist country. They like the idea of a conspiracy explaining irrational fear; I see this as no different as those who actually do believe in white supremacy and are fearful of losing it. It's the zeitgeist we live in. Cell phones with video cameras disseminated on social media and now social media of police body cams make everyone a reporter, and a judge and jury. People can confirm their favored narrative with that and continue to build it (bias verification.)

      As I pointed out before, there's this difference with M.D.'s: we don't disseminate a lot of videos on social media of what doctors do to people. And even if we did, lots of people wouldn't understand what's happening in them. But everybody apparently knows the proper way to be a cop.

      "She did not say that she did not mean to shoot the man." 

       Yes she did in so many words. If my scenario is correct the cop was saying, as she was realizing what just happened, that she did not 'intend' to shoot the detainee. She was correct in saying this because she did not, in fact, intend to shoot a man laying on the ground and surrounded by cops. "I don't know, I didn't mean too,"  is what I heard even though the last phrase was unspoken.

      :I don't know why I pulled the trigger means "I fucked up. ... She still pulled the trigger."   I agree that she fucked up. I disagree that her fuckup was a deliberate act.  

      "IMO the shooting happened because of bad procedure and a weapon that could be fired with a very small amount of force being applied which meant that it was unsafe to point that weapon at a person because normal reflexes such as merely tightening her grip in a tense situation could make it fire. The same situation could occur when holding a taser in one hand and a pistol in the other. There are many ways and reasons to condemn the entire way the incident played out but to condemn it as a deliberate act rather than the culmination of stupid procedures is a mistake, IMO. If you do not understand the idea of a hair trigger being unnecessarily dangerous and possibly being the cause of the unnecessary shot, try cocking a big rat trap and then holding your finger against the traps trigger as you bend over to put it in place.  

      And in all professions, people are legally liable for "deadly" fuck ups, real or metaphorical. Getting outraged about these things as if they are a case of getting off "scot-free" is the faulty thinking. We have torts when bad or unfair things happen, we don't have "scot-free". 

      Those who like the surety of executing everyone for mistakes, and dictators deciding when a mistake is made, perhaps they will like the model the Taliban may soon re-install in Afghanistan.

      You know for a fact that there was a hair trigger?

      Cops lie all the time, so "I don't know" may or may not be true

      What I feel sure of in that case is that her pistol had a hair trigger...

      In English that means he's guessing, but he thinks it a pretty solid hunch.

      I don't think the Barr decision bizarre at all, makes perfect PR sense for any administration not to do any plea deal with such a bellweather case and make it go to trial by jury. Whatever you do on a plea, certain constituencies might be angry (with that one, pro-tough-policing people). Better to let the jury be the scapegoats with whatever groups dislike their decision.

      I hope someone points the Pat Robertson tape out to Wasow if he doesn't know about it, that should be thrown into his mix. While Robertson's not an indicator of as big a bunch of wingers like he used to be, it's still significant and comes before the Toledo video

      Who had “Woke Pat Robertson” on their 2021 bingo card? pic.twitter.com/nCYlQsma3O

      — W. Kamau Bell (@wkamaubell) April 15, 2021

      (p.s., comes to mind that what he likes to do is figure out what "narrative" the majority buys into at any time. Why some end up winning as the dominant story, while others stay labeled as extremist or radical , and why.)

      Interesting that the Hate Crimes Task Force felt compelled to retweet this one. "Kill Cops" "words matter"

      (speaking of words mattering, I for one got a laugh that there are still people in the policing biz that use the term "knuckleheads")

      this is an incredible one, he wasn't handcuffed behind his back, and they missed that he had a gun in his pocket, and when they started to discover it in his pants, he accused them of grabbing his balls and this gave him a distraction to get the gun out? and they ended up having a shootout in the hospital room:

      Body Cam Video Shows Police Fatally Shooting Miles Jackson in Ohio Hospitalhttps://t.co/7eWK00uPdj

      — Law & Crime (@lawcrimenews) April 15, 2021


      Seth Abramson:

      "Having police officers implement traffic laws is not the only way to promote road safety," writes @SAShistorian. "Indeed, the evidence suggests that it is not even the optimal way to do so." https://t.co/7jO4gl6j6w nytopinion

      — Dr. Joseph Frusci (@JFrusci) April 16, 2021

      Op-ed author is Law prof @ColumbiaLaw, author of "Policing the Open Road". I know this is a hot topic as regards reforming forces.

      I think I heard or read something the other day that we've already just done it in NYC but it's not really that big of a game changer here, for us it's a shrug, for other places it might be a big deal. We're different because: we have always had a separate "traffic and parking cop" force that's not the same as regular NYPD and doesn't do anything else; and we now have a city-wide speed limit of 25 mph, so like accidents are fender benders and traffic often goes slower than that, walking is faster sometimes! NYPD would do traffic like this: they had monthly quotas for traffic tickets at some precincts! They'd take a couple hours with sit with a radar on a street where they know everyone goes fast and get their quota pronto.Us drivers would be ever so grateful to have someone who does it full time and not on a quota basis. Within the city, there's just not many of the kind of stops that one sees in so many videos, driving is just not the same here. NYPD in a squad car is too busy with other stuff to like bother with pulling someone over for having a tail light out, and traffic cops wouldn't do that where it's busy traffic, it would make it worse. you'd only get that kind of stop once you cross the border out of town or near the border on one of the circumference highways.

      Atlanta PD clearly having none of that kind of talk:

      Radar equipped signs with cameras might be an alternative.

      Send the ticket to the owner of the plate number

      This is what happened at the police abolition protest at the Salem Police Department tonight. Police arrested the man nearby. https://t.co/U2imcBd3oY

      — Brian Hayes (@_Brian_ICT) April 16, 2021

      I am curious if the person saying "stop the fucking gun" is a police abolitionist. Irony to the point of absurdity. surprise

      just saw this interview on CNN:

      Honored to be joining @jaketapper in a few minutes to talk about #GunViolence as a #publichealth problem. The mass shootings are the canary in the coal mine, my friends. https://t.co/onQwuLkGvY @ResearchAFFIRM

      — Megan Ranney MD MPH (@meganranney) April 16, 2021

      She DID NOT EVEN MENTION SHOOTINGS BY POLICE. They are a comparative nothingburger, numbers wise. To her, a  public health expert on guns, former E.R.doc, and other related background: even mass shootings are not the main problem. The main horrific epidemic, according to her, seen up close and personal by E.R. docs every day, many who may not come out of the concurrent covid and gun violence epidemics sane:

      • guns used in domestic violence
      • guns used in suicide attempts
      • guns used in gang disputes

      BUT noooo, our focus as a nation must be on  approx. 1,000 deaths per year caused by police, with a majority of those deaths white. BECAUSE THAT IS THE NARRATIVE made dominant by viral videos of black deaths by police on social media.

      Gun control is not forgotten. Guns rights organizations still have major impact on gun laws. Obama thought Sandy Hook would make gun control easier.He was wrong. Current efforts to change gun laws still face major hurdles.

      Consider this:

      President Biden’s call for an assault weapons ban is putting pressure on Democrats to pass legislation that strategists worry could put lawmakers in a vulnerable spot heading into next year’s midterm elections.

      The president’s latest push goes beyond expanded background checks and sets the stage for votes to ban assault-style weapons and high-capacity magazines — a potential political liability in Senate battlegrounds such as Georgia, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.


      No one forgot about gun control. If it were easy, it would have been done a long time ago

      My new @ArcDigi newsletter is up. Paywalled for the time being, but some highlights below. How can we get past the toxic and misleading rhetoric?https://t.co/eyJxlJ9iCT

      — Cathy Young (@CathyYoung63) April 16, 2021

      In a nutshell. pic.twitter.com/7GuIhAZOSR

      — Cathy Young (@CathyYoung63) April 16, 2021

      Lots of data on black Americans and policing, and a complicated picture. pic.twitter.com/1SFKyotmTa

      — Cathy Young (@CathyYoung63) April 16, 2021

      Is white supremacy really "baked into the system"? is American policing racist by design? or is there a range of problems that add up to substantial disparities? pic.twitter.com/beV3gsZArr

      — Cathy Young (@CathyYoung63) April 16, 2021

      Crime in the black community should not be used to whatabout police brutality. Nonetheless, it's a very real issue. pic.twitter.com/xCQkrVeXEH

      — Cathy Young (@CathyYoung63) April 16, 2021

      What about shootings? pic.twitter.com/uIwV24im1Y

      — Cathy Young (@CathyYoung63) April 16, 2021

      Yes, there is a problem with cop culture. Some of it, at least. pic.twitter.com/mI8h6qW8Bq

      — Cathy Young (@CathyYoung63) April 16, 2021

      A proposal. pic.twitter.com/zPL3wYM6Bh

      — Cathy Young (@CathyYoung63) April 16, 2021

      We have a pretty good idea why a 13-year old gets caught up in a gang

      A few people make it out of their situation and make to Harvard or Stanford

      Most won't 

      The situation played out in "Hillbilly Elegy"

      The book and movie view poverty as moral failings

      Pull yourself up by your bootstraps 

      The portrayals received pushback


      Papers publish articles pretending that people care about "root causes"

      Progress in police reform

      In February, Illinois enacted a law that rewrote many of the state’s rules of policing, and mandated that officers wear body cameras. In March, New York City moved to make it easier for citizens to sue officers. This month, the Maryland legislature — which decades ago became the first to adopt a Law Enforcement Officers’ Bill of Rights — became the first to do away with it.

      In recent months, state and city lawmakers across the country have seized on a push for reform prompted by outrage at the killing of George Floyd last May, passing legislation that has stripped the police of some hard-fought protections won over the past half-century.

      “Police unions in the United States are pretty much playing defense at the moment,” said Brian Marvel, a San Diego officer and the president of California’s largest law enforcement labor organization. “You have groups of people that are looking for change — and some groups are looking for radical change.”

      Over 30 states have passed more than 140 new police oversight and reform laws, according to a New York Times analysis of data from the National Conference of State Legislatures.



      Chauvin is accused of taking the life of George Floyd.

      That homicide has nothing to do with other crimes committed in the community 

      Um, bodycam shows the 16-yr. old girl shot in Columbus was attempting to stab two others with a knife

      Columbus Police Show Body Camera Footage Of Officer Fatally Shooting 16-Year-Old Girl

      Police showed footage of the officer shooting the girl as she appeared to attempt to stab two people with a knife.

      COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP/KDKA) — Police shot and killed a teenage girl Tuesday afternoon in Columbus just as the verdict was being announced in the trial for the killing of George Floyd.

      Police showed bodycam footage Tuesday night at a news conference of the officer shooting the girl, who was Black, as she appeared to attempt to stab two people with a knife.

      A black-handled blade resembling a kitchen knife or steak knife appeared to be lying on the sidewalk next to her immediately after she was shot and fell.

      State law allows police to use deadly force to protect themselves or others, and investigators will determine whether this shooting was such an instance, Interim Police Chief Michael Woods said at the news conference.

      Officers had responded to an attempted stabbing call when police shot the girl at about 4:45 p.m., police said. The 911 caller reported a female was trying to stab them before hanging up, they said.

      The girl was taken to a hospital, where she was pronounced dead, police said. It’s unclear whether anyone else was injured.

      “This afternoon a young woman tragically lost her life,” Columbus Mayor Andrew Ginther tweeted.


      He later said at the news conference, “We know based on this footage the officer took action to protect another young girl in our community.” [....]

      a respondent to that call that wasn't armed with a gun, if still alive, would probably be in the hospital along with the two others with stab wounds.

      There are questions whether the teenager was the one who called the police because she was threatened by two other girls/women

      One cop "calms" the crowd by saying "Blue Lives Matter".


      Hopefully, the investigation will gives us fuller details.

      You know, there was a time when people were killing each other off in different states and countries, and we really didn't need "details" to go about our business. In the 80s-90s i lived in places with worse murder rates, even a settling down war zone for a bit, but even there gunshot tracking wasn't a daily hobby. It's some kind of porn, all this "defend ourselves" and "crime scenes" like those live cop shows. Sure, we knew cops were bastards, so we tried to avoid. Now ew think getting pissed off or going out in the street to do stupid shit is all "activism" - for the most part it's just rubber necking.

      You are wrong

      Many cities are seeking police reform because of pressure from activists

      Some localities have elected more progressive district attorneys.

      Cities are creating units to deal with mental health issues.

      Welcome to 2021

      Chauvin was convicted

      His buddies will likely go for plea deals.

      You can't avoid police if they are going to stop you for not being able to see that you have a temporary tag.

      Cities make money off of police making nonsense stops.

      Progressive cities have progressive pols already - how's that working out?
      Have you ever considered there's also something wrong with the people?

      Police carry guns and are supposed to protect people.

      Most people do not commit crimes 

      Police cannot kill those who commit crimes if there are other options

      Police cannot treat everyone in a group as criminals 

      When police departments are suspected of being biased, they should be investigated 

      The DOJ is investigating the Minneapolis PD


      Police have to earn community respect

      Note in the police homicide in Columbus, Ohio, the cop shot within seconds of arriving.

      Protests began because witnesses thought that he was too quick on the trigger

      Police mistrust is not created by the media, it is created by the actions of police.

      Were there other options?


      It is clear that things are wrong with people

      Thugs stormed the Capitol

      Those thugs do not represent all white people

      Republicans lie and say the Presidential election was stolen

      A majority of whites voted for Trump

      Republicans are trying to suppress votes 

      White people who voted for Trump do not represent all white people

      Crime is high in cities

      All Black people have to repent

      fiixed it for you

      Crime is high in cities

      All Black people have to repent

      Crime is at horrific levels in poor inner city neighborhoods

      The residents suffer horribly and want more attention to the problem but politicians they elect and elite national activists focus on other grievances, which distracts from the problems of those poor

      oh and nothing, absolutely nothing, represents people of one skin color, except of course, their skin color. And even that becomes increasingly hard to discern as the human race continues to procreate outside of small local tribes. Everything else countering that is a narrative construct designed to fit colors of skin into political tribal affililiations of choice.

      Add to that that rmrd often represents the view of a minority of black people, for example a wide majority of blacks are in favor of a voter id requirement. Not saying that there isn't voter suppression of minority votes and that blacks aren't concerned about it. 

      I'm not in the minority when it comes to thinking voter IDs are discriminatory.

      A Rasmussen poll from March 2021 asked Blacks if voter ID laws were discriminatory 

      The full report is only available to Platinum members 

      Bits and pieces were available in different publications 

      Preliminary cross-tabs shared with Breitbart News show that black voters also favor voter ID, 69% to 25%, and were evenly split (43% to 43%) on the question of whether voter ID is discriminatory. (51% of Democrats as a whole said that it was, as did 59% of self-identified liberals; 60% of overall voters said that it was not, versus 31% who said that it was.)


      you are quoting Rassmussen and Breitbart? lol!

      As good as your tweet snippets from James Lindsay and Zaid Julani.

      Edit to add:

      I stand by my position on voter ID

      It similar to the one taken by Stacey Abrams the intent of the Republican voter ID laws it's to target a segment of the population

      Student IDs rejected, fishing licenses are OK

      At one point during the hearing, Texas Sen. John Cornyn accused Abrams of believing that voter ID laws were inherently racist. Abrams pushed back against the Republican’s claim, stating she wasn’t opposed to voter ID laws, just ones that disproportionally target voters of color.

      “The intent always matters, sir, and that is the point of this conversation,” Abrams said. “That is the point of the Jim Crow narrative, that Jim Crow did not simply look at the activities. It looked at the intent, it looked at the behaviors and it targeted behaviors that were disproportionately used by people of color.”


      Note, historically places like the Black Belt of Alabama had very few courthouses and other facilities for a very poor population often without transport, so getting ID was continually difficult and a point of discrimination for preventing voting by making it hard and expensive to get ID. It's 2021, i don't know if this still persists, but I'm still always suspicious of these requirements, along with bastards at the polls challenging people and intimidating them. Additionally there was at least one awful case of 5 years imprisonment for falsely voting by an ex-con who thought she was eligible. These types of issues seem to largely work to disenfranchise blacks. Considering the rash of new voting laws recently pushed  by Republican state officials, I'd surmise this is still same ole same old. So yes, while voter ID may be benign and reasonable in principle, there may be locations where it's used as a wedge. Note the long lines at scarce voting booths in *some* precincts in say Southern states (or others, not just the South).

      But Blacks in DC undoubtedly have little problem with voter ID.

      Junkies passing fake money are criminals. People shooting kids are definitely criminals. In general police have to deal with a lot of scum to protect the rest of that. Obviously there's some crappy profiling that goes along with this, but much as I dislike the police, i wouldn't want their job nor would I want them refunded. Tell me real reforms. Yeah, they can de-escalate better, quotas are a recipe for disaster, some basic training in racism...

      Prosecutors open criminal probe into police who allegedly broke the arm of a 73-year-old woman with dementia


      An officer did not call for a mental health unit to be dispatched

      Police MO

      Oh wait, she's white?

      But yes, cops could be trained a lot better in non-dickish behavior to de-escalate non-threatening situations. It's not even good for getting compliance in dangerous situations - it creates the most resistance, which becomes a danger to the police. The cops at Wendy's with Reyshard were overall quite cool. The cop with Sandra Bland or the army lieutenant were total dicks. Does it take a mental health person to handle, or just a mobile app to remind, "i do not have to be a dick yet"

      One thing I learned over my lifetime: there's some really bad people in every line of work. And lots of just incompetents too. But careful when microscoping in on the bad ones, can skew your judgment about reality about not just the whole profession but the whole world. (Hey! that might happen to some cops and, like, soldiers, a lot, they start to presume everyone is bad?)

      The Chauvin case was one of the few times that good cops testified against a bad cop

      The Blue Wall of Silence exists.

      Police departments create the us versus them image

      Police mistrust is not created by the media, it is created by the actions of police.
      Wrong it is very much created by social media and media stressing misconduct towards people with one skin color, especially with the advent of  everyone having a cell phone that can take videos. Larger number of deaths and abuse by police of people with majority white skin color is not covered.

      Because divisive grievance based on race is stoked by far right and far left. And it is monetarily profitable for MSM to further stoke what is started by far right and far left. And amplified by foreign trolls who can see a good weapon to try to destroy an enemy society when they see one.

      Furthermore, the amount of abuse is exaggerated by all actors because it is so profitable either monetarily or in other ways. Heck a maniac narcissist troll won the presidency of the U.S. that way. Once he was out of the social media limelight, oh look social media and MSM ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) turned even more heavily towards race and policing, gosh I wonder why that is.

      Our new president knows how to handle this all from a lifetime of experience both personal and political, but far left and far right have vested interests in seeing him fail. Mho, far left is more dangerous, more invested in grievance right now. Far right is just stoking what they can to eke out survival, the left gives them the ammunition.

      further example: large number of "Asian-Americans" recently decided "Afro-Americans" getting all the attention as victims of this or that via viral social media cell phone vids then amplified by MSM for profit. They started working on their own social media vids, showing how they, too are victimized, and often enough, by Afro-Americans, go figure. Then the mass shooting of massage parlors offered a perfect chance to amp up the Olympics contest of victimhood narratives, as all Americans focus on that news... they won for a while but now they are losing the attention again...

      edit to add: the latter is because those activists happen to like the police and want more protection furnished by them, and that certainly doesn't fit today's narrative!

      not only that, but the same day Biden and Harris were obediently pandering to the concerns of the tribe du jour, I see the "Hispanic Caucus" was sneaking behind the back of both "Black" and "Asian" lobbies to try to get some attention from POTUS. As if "Hispanic" didn't represent 50 different cultural heritages and like 12 voting patterns....not to mention many with that background tell the census they are "white".

      RE: Protests

      Whatever they are trying to do, facts are is that they are not saving lives, numbers wise.

      READ IT research showing that communities with BLM protests from 2014 to 2019 saw a reduction in police homicides but an uptick in murders.

      And deaths and maimings could ramp up horribly as more and more buy guns to supposedly "protect themselves" as policing pulls back at request of protests.

      Furthermore, do note that once a small protest starts, white leftist elite move in to direct and foreign trolls assist. Empowerment for who? Sweet irony. I would not be surprised if historians in hindsight see the protests clearly as EXTRAORDINARILY counter-productive, causing much more of what they supposedly were trying to counteract. Especially as they occurred concurrent with the upheaval of a worldwide pandemic with massive death and economic upheaval and worldwide loss of faith in government to protect.

      the above mentioned is titled

      We have enough proof

      What’s the purpose of sharing violent police videos anymore, other than to traumatize Black communities?

      By Allissa V. Richardson  @ Vox.com, Apr 19, 2021, 2:30pm EDT

      Without video, the words of witnesses to George Floyd's murder would have been ignored.

      The murder of Walter Scott by a North Charleston police officer would have been used to conclude that.Scott attacked the officer. In truth, Scott was shot in the back. A Taser was planted near his body to support the lie. Even with the. video disproving the officer's lie, the local jury hung. It was only federal prosecution that sent the officer to jail. The video was crucial to the prosecution.

      The author proposes that "we" simply start listening to Black witnesses that challenge official police reports. Does she expect this to happen by magic? George Floyd without the video?  Chauvin would be free.

      Rep. Val Demings (FL-10), former Orlando Police Chief:​

      It's interesting to see my colleagues on the other side of the aisle support the police when it's politically convenient to do so, but not when police officers who protect us every day here at the Capitol were fighting for their lives because of the Big Lie. @HouseJudiciary pic.twitter.com/x9i9LO5AAi

      — Rep. Val Demings (@RepValDemings) April 20, 2021

      Puppy love? K-9 attack

      Worse, the told the guy's mother to sit in the car and shut up, instead of asking her where her son was (in the shower of course)https://kdvr.com/news/local/suspect-sues-police-after-k9-attack/

      PS - they're white.

      L.A.'s mayor suggests $3 billion more for LAPD for new fiscal year:

      BREAKING: @MayorOfLA's proposed budget has just been released.

      In FY 2021-2022, Mayor Garcetti has proposed an increase to LAPD over this year's current budget with a total of $3,078,227,589.

      Other agencies have also seen slight increases. pic.twitter.com/Y0REqb9OO0

      — Kenneth Mejia (@kennethmejiaLA) April 20, 2021

      p.s. He's a Democrat. I'm pretty sure he knows what BLM thinks, what Joe Biden thinks, not to mention what his voters think. Worth a reminder:

      3% increase, $1.76b operational (vs pensions, healthcare, etc)


      thanks for reality based correction! always appreciated when I too sometimes fall for political weapon spin.

      REALITY: Brooklyn Center, Minnesota (of the Duante Wright shooting) LIKE MANY AREAS IN THIS COUNTRY can no longer be classified as an old-style "Afro-American community" (translation: segregated urban ghetto of Afro-Americans, growing rarer every day)

      but has become a very poor suburb of immigrants, as Afro-Americans of any means have moved out of the town to safer and more well-funded suburbs.  Many of the newer residents of Brooklyn Center are immigrants from west Africa, predominately Liberian but also Kenyan and Nigerian, throw in significant numbers of Hmong and Laotian immigrants.

      This new demographic orientation has enough smarts to recently elect their own kind for like mayor and such, but since there is no fucking money to enact any changes, they are just getting started (as more born-here Americans of all colors of skin move on and away), and one of their problems of many, besides not having much of a tax base to do anything, is that their police force is composed mainly of people who no longer live there and don't git them. Baby steps, just starting out. 

      My druthers would be: DON'T SUBJECT THEM TO YOUR FUCKING NATIONAL OLD TIMEY RACIAL NARRATIVE vis-a-vis policing and "black American descendants of slaves vs. white supremacy system". PUHLEEZZ let them be to work on it themselves!. Introducing old-timey "Afro-American" agendas and the new woke versions of same would really be unfair, especially as many of the old tribes have chosen to move away themselves and desert them

      If they were given time to handle this and develop a new paradigm, they might show everyone else a thing or two about how to change things. They actually have experience at understanding other cultures and chose this American one despite all of its supposed downsides.

      READ THIS and understand that we are not dealing with 1980 U.S.A. anymore. Our country is less and less "black" and "white" both literally and figuratively, and trying to fit it into the old narratives is just not going to work as much as people desire it be so

      Unrest in Minnesota town offers warning to other U.S. suburbs, experts say

      By  Tim Craig and Silvia Foster-Frau, @ WashingtonPost.com, April 16, 2021 at 8:34 a.m. EDT

      filed from BROOKLYN CENTER, Minn .

      Edit to add: on the other hand, if you would like to encourage a lot of them to end up switching to voting for Trump types, keep up with the old timey rabble rousing in their community.

      You have several things that non-whites have to do.

      From your link

      Meanwhile, overly aggressive police tactics, including motorists being stopped for relatively minor traffic infractions, have been a source of complaints for years, residents said.

      Rebecca Headbird, a 40-year-old Native American, was born in Brooklyn Center and has been raising her mixed-race family here. Even before Wright’s death, Headbird said, she had lost faith that Brooklyn Center police could be trusted to be fair to her family.

      She said Brooklyn Center officers have pulled over her and other family members for having a feather “dream catcher” — a traditional Native American good-luck charm — dangling from a rearview mirror.

      “A lot of White people at least try to understand where we are coming from, but I feel like the police, they don’t want to,” Headbird said. “They just want to continue doing what they have been doing, even though things have to change.”


      You say that it is the non-white population that needs to appease. It appears that the police department does not want change. The article notes that non-white political candidates who knock on doors often have police called on them. What do white residents have to do to prove that it is not the 1980s?

      Yeah, they didn't understand where i we coming from either - i had a bottle of ouzo and a toga hanging from my rearview, and they had me take a drunk test.

      Still there are cases where cops act awfulfunding ways to get rid of them is a plus


      Similar rational threads I ran across on U.S. police reform. First one's by an expert, in 2019. recommended by a rational person seeking rationality yesterday, and another by just a rational person not into being fed emotional narratives for MSM profit, recommended by a Russian-Jewish-American. "Voice of reason against the madness." (They're out there, rational people who are not into playing politics, believe it or not; you just have to look for them, they just don't make a lot of noise.)

      A fascinating, informative and thought-provoking thread. https://t.co/Xqytm4Kdcy

      — davidallengreen (@davidallengreen) April 21, 2021

      Excellent thread. https://t.co/bzjEtVhaG0

      — Cathy Young (@CathyYoung63) April 21, 2021

      Hmm, RJA, Talmud + borscht, where would we find such an illuminati?

      Would Americans accept The Wrap used on George Floyd? How would that affect his claustrophobia, his earlier inability to breathe? (also that departure from the car was much more, er, abrupt - and i think that suspect was a bit lighter than Floyd)

      here's their exact opposite; official BLM has nothing on Bree when she wants to stir shit and get people hating on each other more, pump up the volume on that narrative to the max, babee, get yer anarchy on:

      I know people are uncomfortable when I compare whiteness to cannibalism but I don’t know how else you explain a culture that for centuries has been fixated with killing Black people & possessing/consuming their bodies in some form or fashion.

      — DEFUND & ABOLISH POLICE, REFUND OUR COMMUNITIES (@BreeNewsome) April 22, 2021

      He's white, former Republican, former Bush admin., now an Independent, extremely rational law professor, he could be your friend, Bree, BUT NOOOOO, you gotta make him the cannibal enemy:


      Bree Newsome is the only option for partnership?

       yes she is your only option, her and her friends like this here and official BLM types. Unless many of those promoting "the narrative" loudly and specifically renounce these types, including people exactly like you, rmrd, they are you and you are them. You can't get away with not saying anything and treating them like allies. Doesn't work, your movement will be fringe forever. The majority doesn't relish defunding the police much less the idea of living in Pol Pot's Cambodia, and you won't renounce Pol Pot. You are either with those people or against them. If not against them, you will fail. 

      Look at Noah Smith's reaction. He's a liberal. Those people eating are Manhattan liberals. Your "allies" are attacking them.


      You proudly post that Gavin Newson and Joe Biden ignore BLM.

      BLM's defunding impact is small.

      I had not heard Bree Newsome's name in a very long time.

      I said people who break the law should go to jail.

      I say police reform, you say defund the police

      I don't take you seriously.

      an extremely good counter to counselor Painter's argument:

      On Merrick Garland's DOJ announced probe of MPD:

      On a "robust majority" of NYC Asian-Americans supporting Yang's proposal for more funds for hate crime policing, despite "progressive" claims about "community-based alternatives" (+ bonus Makiya knife fight comments)

      List of charges against Andrew Yang in open letter by a group of progressive Asian activists includes "you’ve called for increased funding for the NYPD hate crimes task force instead of community-based alternatives." https://t.co/pajvmbxfUF

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 21, 2021

      "Asians Against Yang" is an inherently funny name for a URL, credit where due

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 21, 2021

      Of course a robust majority of Asian New Yorkers support Yang because, say it again kids in unison, kids, "progressive activists do not represent the people they claim to represent...: https://t.co/NSCabRb4oJ

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 21, 2021

      The open letter will persuade no one and is not intended to; it is an end in itself, pure signalling

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 21, 2021

      This seems a pretty clear instance in which “community based violence prevention” methods have broken down https://t.co/5hU28grDDy

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 21, 2021

      Interesting to see who does and does not go with "knife fights are normal and fine"

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 21, 2021

      This was the politician/pundit Marshmallow test

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 21, 2021


      Robert Reich caught spinning about prison population:

      So interesting that a major scholar must describe "one of the most robust findings" in criminology -- that "more police officers in the street leads to less violent crime" -- as one of its "most uncomfortable findings."

      Seems pretty intuitive. https://t.co/mZWxujP78T pic.twitter.com/5yR3ZALxkL

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 22, 2021

      is the June 12, 2020 WaPo op-ed by Patrick Sharkey


      edit to add rest of Yang's comments with more excerpts:

      You see the way he's trying to "pace and lead" an audience of presumed "defund" enthusiasts back to reality here...not sure if the WaPo really consists of such enthusiasts...make it does? pic.twitter.com/VGnKHtObCk

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 22, 2021

      I'm not going to dismiss these visions out of hand. Let's give them a try in some neighborhoods that want to give them a go. We did do a lot of stuff similar to this during the War on Poverty, hopefully those lessons will be remembered? pic.twitter.com/OzIRDUEXwS

      — Wesley Yang (@wesyang) April 22, 2021

      President Biden is calling for the passage of the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, which calls for reforms including changing police immunity laws and bans chokeholds at the federal level. 

      Police: Sixth-leading cause of death for young black men


      The leading causes of death for young Black men are accidents and suicides

      Edit to add:

      People want police, but many times good police do not arrive on the scene

      The teen who called the police about a fake $20 bill regrets his call

      Daniel Prude's family regrets their call to police

      BLM protests occur after homicides caused by police

      Stop police homicides and you stop BLM protests

      If a study shows that police homicides go down after BLM protests, BLM is doing their job

      If police are pulling back after being held to account and homicides go up, then we need better policing

      Playing bullshit w numbers

      With 47 million blacks in the US, this makes it sound like 470k are getting whacked by police each year, when the number of blacks killed is in the 400-500 range, far far less than homicides. And even in the real comparison for causes of death, those 6th and 7th causes are way down there.


      But a lot of effort to avoid thinking "maybe just maybe black people are also doing too many crimes".


      Yeah there's all kinds of ways to make a narrative that confirms your bias.  For example, this guy I just ran across isn't bothering with bullshit with numbers, he's going whole hog for emotions to create his:

      I'm starting a new thread for this year. It's devastating that it's even necessary. Look at these little faces. My God, what are we doing?

      1. Chassidy Saunders was shot and killed in Miami, FL on January 6th, 2021 during a drive-by shooting at a birthday party. She was only 6. pic.twitter.com/OBYtL288kN

      — Leonydus Johnson (leave/me/alone) (@LeonydusJohnson) April 22, 2021

      2. D'Myah Rankin-Fleming was shot and killed in St. Louis, MO on January 24th, 2021 while sitting in a car with her dad. She was only 7. pic.twitter.com/0r9KZfmEJK

      — Leonydus Johnson (leave/me/alone) (@LeonydusJohnson) April 22, 2021

      3. Larea Hall was shot and killed in Louisville, KY on February 2nd, 2021 during a drive-by shooting. She was only 9. pic.twitter.com/OMIJ7Ly3ho

      — Leonydus Johnson (leave/me/alone) (@LeonydusJohnson) April 22, 2021

      4. Major Turner was shot and killed in Birmingham, AL on February 4th, 2021 when someone started shooting into his apartment. He was only 2. pic.twitter.com/zmUI0m2abp

      — Leonydus Johnson (leave/me/alone) (@LeonydusJohnson) April 22, 2021

      5. Davion Tarver was shot and killed in Tuskegee, AL on February 13th, 2021 while in his bed and someone started shooting into his apartment. He was only 4. pic.twitter.com/nlYDItMuiD

      — Leonydus Johnson (leave/me/alone) (@LeonydusJohnson) April 22, 2021

      thread continues with 13 more. Now of course, one might ask:  where are the white kids? Well, I am sure that there's plenty of those, they are perhaps not so much about being victims of older people shooting each other but kids playing with guns they found. And plenty of people have made the point with similar social media postings. What's the diff; dead is dead? Well, one type of death might be more about criminal activity that policing has a chance of stopping while the other might be more about the harder task of politicians somehow cracking down on handguns owned by people and how they store them.

      Telling stories, it's all about what you want to focus on. And in lots of stories, I am seeing a lot of irrational blaming of  the idea of "police" when it's really a metaphor about authority and government being responsible for lousy lives.

      Oh, you mean like "stupid evil (likely black) motherfuckers with guns are the #1 cause of death among black children 0-12"?

      Quite possibly, but where's the equity angle in that?

      Also, as far as the numbers, I've posted more than one serious article on this thread about open-minded sociological studies that have tried to evaluate the results of BLM protests on deaths by police in the areas where there were strong protest efforts (since before George Floyd). They found that while deaths by police decreased a little in those areas, homicides increased by at least the same number, basically a wash. Certainly no more sense of control by residents over their own lives; a trade: less police interference for more violence and death by criminal activity.

      You consider it BS

      Open your eyes, when people are killed by police, protests occur immediately 

      The police are not trusted

      Solving homicides requires people in the neighborhoods feeling free to give information 

      Because police are not trusted, information is not shared

      When Chauvin was convicted, neighborhoods throughout the country cheered.

      Floyd died because of a fake $20 bill

      Eric Garner over selling loose cigarettes 

      Their crimes were not death penalty crimes

      The resistance Floyd and Garner displayed was not death penalty resistance 

      The best thing to do is to avoid contact with police

      That is hard to do if police initiate the encounter because they had problems seeing your temporary license plate.


      Poverty rates correlate heavily with crime in Black and white neighborhoods 

      Reduce poverty to reduce homicides 


      Floyd died because of 8 priors, because of passing a fake $20, because if his fentanyl addiction, because of freaking out & not staying out in the back seat, because of screaming "i can't breathe" when in the back seat so cops didn't take him serious later on the ground, because cops didn't pay attention to his actual risks and his signs of losing consciousness with the knee on or whatever. (not noticing the guy on the ground is dying is a problem even without a knee on him)

      Floyd passing a fake $20 bill cost the guy running cash register about 3 hours of his work, assuming he's making $7/hour. You think that's okay or just an irrelevant joke, nothing to do with why the police wanted Floyd, not his fault. You're awfully callous towards other people's time, other people's work.

      "Solving homicides requires people in the neighborhoods feeling free to give information 

      Because police are not trusted, information is not shared"

      The more common reason I've read that people don't cooperate with police is fear of gangs in their own neighborhood. In the end the only solution to that isn't defund or abolish the police but a greater police presence in those neighborhoods

      Competent police

      2018-2019 poll conducted by Vox and ​Civis Analytics found that most black people wanted more police in their neighborhood. 

      What that polling found was, it’s true, for instance, African Americans have a less favorable view of local police, but it’s still very favorable. So white people have a 79% favorable view of the local police, Hispanic 77%, and black people 58%. And even given that the numbers are very close in terms of when you pull the different groups on whether or not they want to see more police officers hired into their communities. So among white people, 65% say they support that and 13% oppose it; among Hispanic folks, 64% supported and 13% oppose it. And among black people, 60% supported and 18% opposed it. 

      2021 TOO!!! Vox and Data for Progress poll, this April 2-5.  I did a whole thread on polls on that starting with that here

      He's didn't even comment on that thread, probably refused to read it, he's in denial, invested in the idea that he and his activist friends on teevee and social media and at protests (many of which are elite white college-age people) represent "the black community."

      Number one, there is no such thing as "the black community", that's a phrase used to build their narrative that everyone with black skin thinks alike. There is such a thing as the Congressional Black Caucus, they pander to activist's agendas.

      Number two, truth is the numbers just don't add up that BLM-activism being a majority attitude, even among "blacks" much less other minorities.

      And truth also is that numbers-wise, the police abuse problem is very small compared to lots of other problems we have as a society. It's real, but it's minor, less than deaths & injury from lightning strikes. Yeah, every life is sacred but a lot more lives and suffering have been sacrificed on the altar of civilian violence -- medical malpractice and poor medical care--COVID --or scratch that, fucking illness from the air and water-

      It's a hysteria, SERIOUSLY., A hysteria from a narrative fueled by social media and MSM. NOT MUCH DIFFERENT from the hysteria caused by Trump claiming he won the election. I'm very serious, I think it's going to be a huge chapter in history books, no different than after the Black Death. People looking for evil to blame. One big groiup is going with racism and colonialism, another is going with Qnon and Trump, another is militia anarchist types, etc. It's a totally irrational blaming of all kinds of things on policing, they're scapegoats for crazy times. (Not to say that it's not partly their fault that they became scapegoats--if you always have the back of the assholes in your group, tends to happen.)

      Comes to mind police have replaced Israel as the favorite evil. Many lefties still think Israel is a primary evil but it's clear they been losing ground on the outrage front since lots of Arab rulers and their minions stopped going with that narrative. It's getting harder and harder to fuel a boycott against Israel, cause they are just nasty sometimes, like everyone else.

      Which brings to mind:

      Racism and hate is not going away, it's the way lots of dumb people think. You can't avoid it, you can outlaw public statements about it, like in France, but they're still thinking it.

      SO, when you hire cops, or teachers, or garbage men, or accountants, or soldiers or whatever, some of them are going to be racist against someone of another color. You can outlaw behavior, but you can't outlaw what's inside their head. It's just one of those human flaws we have to factor into things!

      reposting the tweeted cut out from that poll that Yglesias retweeted, JUST SO RMRD HAS TO LOOK AT IT:

      that's why I accused him once of practicing a posting style of news that's insidious. Gets the reader thinking that's what all black folks think. It's simply not! At all. He represents only himself and a small number of black people who think like him and probably a larger number of spoiled white millennials.

      BLM activists of all types are a minority of a minority. Current created narrative is that every black person is on board, plus a lot of white liberals and left Democrats.  They're all invested in pounding the narrative.

      But Ben Crump is not Al Sharpton is not Jim Clyburn is not Kamala Harris is not Glenn Loury, etc., they all have different takes. Nor Clarence Thomas for that matter. Nor official BLM anarchists.

      Joe Biden went for the best pollsters he could get in order to win and followed their advice every step of the way. What is the first loudly public thing he said when asked about BLM demands: police need more funding, not less!

      Now he's murmuring healing sounds no doubt because: he doesn't want more riots and unrest from this minority. PLUS he truly cares about each individual case of any family that's hurting, that much I am not cynical about.

      I stand by the position that people want competent police.

      That is straightforward 

      Are you arguing that communities will tolerate police abuse for police protection?

      Do you think Stop and Frisk was a rational technique? 

      Competent police.

      why do you care what I think of stop n' frisk? I'm just one person on the internet. I don't really care what you think of it either if you weren't often pushing a narrative about how humiliating and abusive and useless it is.

      I would, on the other hand, be interested to see any current polls of people in high crime neighborhoods support it or not. I also would care to hear from experts on whether it would help in the current environment of increasing gun crime and increasing number of handguns in places where possession of them is already illegal.

      I have noticed, however, that the current Brooklyn Borough president supports stop and frisk; he's black, he's also an ex-cop.

      Brooklyn is 34% black. He was re-elected as the incumbent in 2017 with 83% of the vote. Apparently his beliefs about policing don't bother many of the blacks in Brooklyn (including many very low income in the outer borough) and very many liberal lefty whites and many other minority groups and immigrants.

      He is currently running in the primary for mayor of NYC and by most polls is 2nd place after Andrew Yang.

      Hmmm, what a tough  question for me!  who should I go with?

      • believe the narrative rmrd-on-internet has long purported that stop-and-frisk outrages "the black community" to no end and cherry picks stories that it is evil?
      • or go with like maybe 650,000 black voters in Brooklyn who vote for and re-elect a man who they know supports it?

      I point to Malcolm Gladwell's note re the Kansas City experiment, where the community supposed tougher police methods in high crime areas - largely meaning *blocks*, not districts, but that applyung those tough love tactics in lower crime areas would be seen as abusive.

      Thank you for remembering that. You know, I believe they do have the ability to go down to block level on methods with systems like Compstat. A lot of variation on micro-levels is part of how they got the crime rate down in NYC, they'd go whole hog invasion when they got intel. (I imagine they can't do that when they have to call up from a force partly ravaged with covid infections for protest duty all the time...not to mention tending to professional looting parties scattered all over town afterwards)

      "supported" tough love, not "supposed"... mobile phone typing, sheesh...

      Adams says that under Bloomberg it was used improperly.

      “Let’s use the tool correctly. I used it as a law enforcement officer, I supervised officers who used it, it’s a great tool,” Adams said.

      In fact, you may not realize it, but stop-and-frisk is still being used to get guns off the street. NYPD stops increased 22% last year.

      “When you walked down the street as a police officer and you saw somebody with a gun or a bulge in their pocket, what was your reaction?” Kramer asked.

      “That’s what the stop-and-frisk tools allowed you to do. It allowed you to speak to that person,” Adams said. “And they had a bulge, you were able to touch that area, not search unless you felt and it escalated to another level.”

      He does not support the Bloomberg version of Stop and Frisk.

      "I stand by the position that people want competent police."

      Everyone would like everyone to be more competent. More competent police, more competent waiters in restaurants, more competent doctors, more competent bloggers on dagblog, more competent everything, everyone, everywhere. But that doesn't address anything I posted or Arta posted. It's a non sequitur designed to change the subject. One of your most common avoidance techniques.


      Latest Comments