Saladin's picture

    So, who's up for a brokered convention or does the GOP really not want this one?

    As it is becoming increasingly clear that everybody hates Romney--especially the GOP base--and there is little chance that women will allow the election of Santorum--much less the practicing polygamist Gingrich--talk of a brokered convention has begun to bubble up from the disgruntled masses to the bored press core. Sarah Palin, 2008's exciting late entry femme fatale, has openly contemplated it. Stating that if a brokered convention comes about then "all bets are off." If, as seems very possible, Romney loses Michigan--the state of his birth and where his father was a popular governor--expect this to become a new media meme. Frankly, given Romney's unfavorables I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that a brokered convention is the only chance the GOP has.  

    In our modern era the conventional wisdom seems to have taken hold that brokered conventions are some fusty relic of the past when cigar chomping party bosses of the gilded age brokered the fate of the nation. Today that seems to be done in back doors at Koch meetings, predetermined well before the actual voting occurs. However it must be noted that it was also conventional wisdom that claimed a black man--particularly one whose name rhymed with Osama--could never become a president, or that a half term female governor from Alaska with zero accomplishments would ever become a legitimate VP candidate, or for that matter that the Supreme Court would blatantly dismiss the results of a popular election (last seen in Rutherford vs. Hayes). I believe you see the new modern trend...  Democratic elections have always been a bit of a carnival, best with charismatic narratives and dramatic plot twists.  Overturning the CW is par for the course. 

    Many pundits point to the 2008 Obama/Hillary horse race--when the so-called super-delegates meekly endorsed the narrow delegate leader rather then upset passionate Obama voters--as evidence that a brokered convention is bad politics.  But for that analogy to be valid you need excited voters preferably a solidly reliable block like the African Americans who are committed to their candidate.  Are the Mormons really going to sit out the election if Romney loses this? Will this put Utah or Idaho at risk in the general election?  Yeah, right. Tell me another. 

    The other common argument that belittles a brokered convention is that the national candidate requires the primaries to build a national campaign who can turn out the vote.  However an economic downturn and international uncertainty coupled with vast superpak spending could more then make up this difference.  I am not as sanguine as many around here seem to be that superpacs will not have an effect on the election.  Frankly I am also scared to death about the global economy.  Greece, Iran--Israel, Syria, overheating China, Oil, Spain, Egypt, Italy, etc. the list is damn long, any one of which could send us into a global meltdown. (Did anyone mention that the largest economic driver of our economy, the housing market, is still in the doldrums. Or that record amounts of commercial real estate loans--which are predominately ARMs of some sort (a dirty little secret the media kindly ignores in favor of blaming those trashy residential speculators)--were inked in 2007 and are now rapidly coming due for renegotiation).  Amidst such an uncertain backdrop why not drop a moderate GOP Saviour...it seems a damn great strategy to me.  Much better then a super rich duchebag going against a black guy who represents the 99%.

    I'll admit that I have a bit of a paranoid mentality when it comes to the GOP. I do not trust them, they have shown that they will use ever tool they have, from disenfranchising voters to destroying activist groups that dare to register voters, to gambling away the US's credit rating.  So why not do a bait and switch and rope-a-dope Obama. The drama would create great excitement and is sure to rile up the GOP base.  And our abominable media would soak it up in spades.  

    Or maybe the GOP just doesn't want it. Maybe they are content to stonewall for another four years in preparation for a massive push in 2016, with Rubio or some other charismatic pol fissuring the Democrats and capitalizing on the final hurrah of the baby boomers.  I don't know, seems possible, and like I said, I don't trust em.  But for the sake of this discussion lets assume they will still make a go at it.  So who do they have waiting in the wings?  Daniels? Thune? That lying twerp from Wisconsin? 

    As a friend once wrote America has jumped the shark and all bets are off.  So who's in? 

    Comments

    Yes!

    What I would really like to see is a broke convention.

    That is possible; I mean 10 to 1 odds of that happening.

    The teabaggers go home say frick you and that's that and some third party nationalist prick runs on a few white-only tickets and there you have it! We win!

    The repubs will never ever ever run out of money. I mean they can spend half a billion fighting each other till convention time and they will immediately have a billion and a half to fight the Black Devil in the WH!

    I am attempting to forget my rage and go with it.

    I mean this is a fun show!


    I'd love to see a third party nationalist, but this ain't 1964 there are real stakes in these elections (and even then Goldwater wasn't as bad as these Fucks, he even said the Republicans of the 90's were too conservative for him!!!)   What if they throw a Christie/Rubio ticket?  That's a great split that opens NJ and Florida to the Republicans.  You get a semi-moderate straight from the gut gov out of a blue state that is perennially on the fence, coupled with an conservative--but young and charming--Hispanic who potentially breaks off just enough Latinos to take Florida, possibly New Mexico, possibly Nevada, Colorado, and maybe a few other middle mountain states. I don't know what the NC/Missouri effect might be.  Tea partiers would get their straight shooter and Repubs get a dream combo to try out.  Even if it loses it sunders the Latino vote which bodes well for the future.  They tack center--and lacking Romney's all over the place history or his 1% status--just in time to charm the electorate, but not long enough for too much mud to accrue.  Obama has a nobler then art thou candidate would be forced to go heavy negative---spoiling his brand in the process.

    Yes, it is a great show, how entertaining do to they want make it in order to win? 

     

     

     


    Rubio is a pretty face but is too close to the tea party nuts to hand Florida to the Republicans. It will take Jeb Bush to do that...maybe. Florida is suffering from buyer remorse with Rick Scott and his chamber of squirrels in Tallahassee.

    I live just across the bay from Tampa and there has been plenty of talk about a brokered convention this August. The biggest worry for Tampa is if all hell breaks lose on Channel Side or in the historical district not far from St Pete Times Forum. OWS of Tampa is working with county and city officials on the logistics of parades and demosrations. Their organizers are getting training from union leaders on how to manage large non violent demonstrations. Unions are going to want to show a lot of solidarity and voice their angest at the GOP. There is going to be as much going on outside as well as inside. I remember watching the last couple of brokered conventions in the 1950's. Each state deligation has the option of submitting their favorite son in the nomination process. We haven't seen any serious favorite son nominations for decades. Florida could nominate Jeb as a serious canidate and probably will if it ends up brokered. There will be lots of speeches made for the candidates and floor votes. The primary candidates will use their support to wheel and deal. We will be up all night watching the floor fights, voting and street demonstrations.

    I am not as sanguine as many around here seem to be that superpacs will not have an effect on the election.

    I think anyone doing predictions on that one way or another is a fool. The situation is a complete wildcard.

    A related news item I just ran across:

    February 17, 2012, 6:15 pm
    Gingrich Campaign Threatens to Sue Over Attack Ads
    By TRIP GABRIEL @ The Caucus

    ATLANTA — With Newt Gingrich campaigning in Georgia on Friday to defend his home turf from competition that has suddenly heated up, a lawyer for his campaign threatened to sue Georgia television stations that run attack ads from a pro-Mitt Romney “super PAC” that connect Mr. Gingrich to Nancy Pelosi and China’s one-child policy [....]

    Who'd thunk that would happen? Lots of other things are going to happen, things we can't imagine.

    I was just looking at Mike Huckabee's PAC, it's real interesting:

    https://www.huckpac.com/?Fuseaction=Contribute.Homepolitical&DonorCode=M...


    Agreed. It's a wildcard.

    Re: Huck.  Why didn't he run?  He would have won the primary. I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now.  But like I said, I don't trust em. 


    I checked out his site, and aside from a couple of links not working, the only interesting thing I noticed was there is not one mention of any specific Repub candidate for POTUS.

    The fact is that the tea party segment within the GOP is splintering the masses and I can't see Romney capitulating to surrender if there is a brokered convention because (IMO) this is his last grab for the brass ring.  He's getting pissed now and it shows.  His white horse is gasping from the weight of all that gold armor and there's more than a good chance he won't take 'Myth' across the finish line.

    If it comes down to a brokered convention, it will be a no holds barred brouhaha.  Fun for us,  but potentially devastating for GOP's present and future wellbeing.

    I've been reading reports lately that Paul and Romney have 'bonded'.  That said, IF Paul and his supporters get in line behind MR (not convinced this is a possibility) it could create a whole new set of dynamics.  

    Unless Newt is resurrected, he will have no impact.

    Rick could well shoot himself in the same foot he keeps having to remove from his mouth and soul unless he exchanges his garb of Catholic zealot for a red, white and blue sweater vest that gives him the appearance (at least) of a patriot that puts country, not his Catholicism first.

    Super Tuesday will tell the future for GOP's fate.


    Given his support among plutocrats, why wouldn't Romney prevail in a brokered convention? Is the convention more democratic than the primary system?


    Donal, I'm not sure we can think in our own logical framework about "democracy" when judging what the tea party types, for example, will do. I don't know what their percentages will be among delegates, but I think the debt ceiling fight gives us the best example of how they would behave in a brokered convention. These folks are saboteurs, not negotiators, and they hate Romney almost as bad as they do Obama. 


    Because they want to win even more. But you are right it's very possible, perhaps even likely.  I would also agree with Oxy's comment.


    As we head towards the national convention leaning towards being a brokered one, the first battles will start at the state conventions like Iowa where the delegate selections are completed.  Many state delegates from primaries are committed to the politicans based on the results, and the candidate would have to release them before they could go for someone else.  But in states like Iowa, the caucus results are just one thing used to haggle out the allocation in June.  If things are still a toss up at that point, the various supporters of the candidates have nothing but their passion to hold them back from arguing about allocation.

    And this argument is what scares the GOP about the brokered convention. The general rule of thumb is that one needs to tack to the center in order to win the general election.  A brokered state or national convention will be an argument between the various factions of the party's base - everyone trying to prove their conservative credentials.  The amount of sound bite videos generated by these will be more than enough to scare most of the moderates not only into Obama's arms but also the Dems down ticket. 


    What if it's a completely new candidate that emerges from the convention, perhaps a relative unknown like Warren Harding?  One could satisfy the base merely by taking Romney out of the picture.  Outside of Paultards I don't know how many of the delegates are actually passionate about their candidates.  Gingrich to the end!? Santorum for life!? 

    I concede that you bring up an excellent point, but I am not sure if all those negative soundbites would be any different the how the primaries are already turning out.  The key difference I see is the possibility of an untarnished candidate emerging from the fiery debates.  If Romney was willing to be onboard then I think this would be a real possibility, it wouldn't take all that much to peal off a few Santorum or maybe even Gingrich delegates.  Or make a deal with Paul giving him some sort of position in the cabinet (not sure if he could take a deal, but he's been in Congress for a long time so who knows).  

    I am not saying this is what will happen, but I certainly don't believe its outside of the realm of possibilities.  It seems a better risk then certain defeat. 


    Excellent post. But I think if their last hope is the brokered convention, they've got no hope at all.

    Anyone who emerges from a brokered convention will be served up to Obama like toast: no campaign money, no organization, no time left on the clock and no party unity worth a damn. S/he will absolutely face rebellion in the ranks, and likely a breakaway third-party campaign. (Ron Paul just needs an excuse.)

    The question for the GOP if it gets to that point isn't how to avoid losing the election, but how they want to go down. You can get your ass kicked but begin laying the groundwork for the future, or you can just get your ass kicked and salt your own earth.


    "no campaign money, no organization, no time left on the clock and no party unity worth a damn"

    ​Superpacs, Superpacs, Superpacs. ​The party will still be hungry to defeat Obama. 

    I don't think Paul will break away. But lets hope they salt the earth. 


    Superpacs are going to fill in some of the money gap. But they can only spend their money in certain ways. They can buy a whole motherlode of negative ads. But what they can't do is get out the vote. They're all air game, no ground game. GOTV is what it's going to come down to in a tight race, and a tight race is the best-case scenario for a brokered-convention nominee.

    Of course, the Republican primaries have been about air game and not ground game, which suggests that none of these jokers are prepared for October.


    Doc...you are right about the ground game. The dems have put together one of the strongest ground games I have seen in decades here in Florida. It is not just for Obama but local races too. GOP don't seem to have much presence. They packed up and left after the primary. The Tea Party Express bus traveled all over state before the primary and had trouble drawing any one to their rallies. They only got light turn outs. The mood don't seem to be the same as '10 election. Rick Scott and his squirrels made the mistake of making voter registration so hard because new retirees entering Florida is finding it a big head ache. The dems are the only ones working on voter regestration.

    Well, they also have Fox, so that helps a bit.  But you make a good point. 

    I confess I am not sure how important ground game really is for the right side.  I think its much more important for the left then the right. But that is just my intuition, I haven't seen any studies. If anybody around here has please let me know. 


    Joe the Plumber. He belongs at the top of the GOP ticket, and seated on that Oval Orifice at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, with the big pipes W used to Flush the Johns.

    He is a 'just like us' Tea Party favorite, an outsider who could flush through all the crap of these GOP primaries, and plunge into doing the same services in DC.


    Brokers implies third parties,.

    How bout Rick & Newt pool their delegates for a joint presidency-Newt takes foreign affairs, Rick gets domestic appointments.  After two years, Newt resigns, Rick succeeds, appoints Newt VP.  Etc.


    Some things work better in theory:


    You, of all people, know how important the fairer sex is.  Do you really see them going for that, or do you think this guy is on to something? 

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/20/newt-gingrichs-three-marriages...

     

     


    on to something? 

    Well, based upon an inventory of potentially attractive characteristics, I would have to guess that either he has seen Newt lick his eyebrows, (which I understand he is wont to do at parties, particularly where strong punch is served), or, he has heard the rumors from Newt's High School Gym class, where his nickname was El Burro...


    True that, he's quite the jack. But that's only one half of the duo, what about little Ricky?  The only positive to Santorum is that it's the only expense of a cheap birth control. 


    LOL. Only a man could admire another man's skirt chasing and consider it a positive trait. I read your link. Women are not going to let " arm candy" represent them in the Whitehouse. I don't care how nice his first two wives are to him or how much his kids love him. There is enough women who won't reward a womenizer with a trophy wife even in the VP slot with their vote. The party bosses know that.

    Rumor has it, the GOPers have convinced themselves they're repeating the primary courtship dance done by Obama and Hillary back in 2008. Said dance made Obama  an unbeatable super candidate that steamrolled McCain. They're expecting the trials and tribulations the Party is enduring will make them strong and formidable in November. I'd just like to know where they get their weed from.


    A Cain/Palin ticket would save this country, the right combination of ethics, strength and change

    Perfect.


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