A profile of James Foley. The family has confirmed that he died. He sounds like he was an absolutely incredible human being. Journalism was a second career for him, after having taught for several years after college. He covered Libya (and was held captive by Qadaffi loyalists for a time), he was in Afghanistan, and then finally he was in Syria, which is where he was kidnapped on Thanksgiving Day in 2012.
From The Atlantic ,we learn that Foley graduated from Northwestern University and went on to work with Teach for America. Those are same exact credentials that my son has.
More importantly, the Atlantic piece points to the difficulty of reporting from Syria and what that means, i.e. we don't see it.
As The Atlantic's David Rohde wrote in November, "Syria today is the scene of the single largest wave of kidnappings in modern journalism, more than in Iraq during the 2000s or Lebanon during the 1980s. A combination of criminality, jihadism, and chaos is bringing on-the-ground coverage of the war to a halt."
The result: The Syrian civil war, which has left more than 170,000 people dead and displaced 9 million more, in perhaps the worst humanitarian crisis so far this century, is grinding on as a dwindling cohort of daring journalists bear witness to its tremendous destruction. It's grinding on in the background of our churning news cycle. We see its deleterious effects everywhere in the Middle East. But we rarely see it.
In a civil war between the brutal (Bashar) and the maniacal (you know who...) what should be our choice? I, myself, wonder if a volte-face is not needed, where we hook up with the Shia (more or liess vindicating George's Excellent Iraqi Adventure) and dump the Saudis (just when you think it can't get crazier than the procession of flagellating mourners at Ashura, you are confronted by the British accented beheaders).
If they keep beheading people and raping women people may think they are not nice people. As to Shiites, Sunnis and Saudis:
BTW in his book INTELLIGENCE MATTERS: The CIA, the FBI, Saudi Arabia, and the Failure of America's War on Terror former Senator Bob Graham, who chaired the rarely reported or mentioned 2002 9/11 Joint Congressional Investigation noted many connections of the Saudi's to the Saudi hijackers of 9/11, along with Bush administration failures and prevarications (FBI's Mueller 'The 9/11 terrorists did not have contact from anyone we knew had terrorist connections', (they did have many contacts with Saudi intelligence, and the Saudi's did not like Saddam).
If they keep beheading people and raping women people may think they are not nice people.
I keep reading stuff saying how savvy they are, i.e., social media and stuff. I don't get it. I don't see it. Let's say for rhetorical purposes that I was simpatico with their goals. I still see: idiots! I really don't get their whole propaganda campaign. They're idiots.
They've even got a historic model that they could follow:
Thr Islamic State's media campaign seems to be quite successful both as PR and PsyOps. Their numbers are now estimated at 50,000 and growing rapidly with millions of supporters.
The West especially the US are blundering along with the usual reactionary counterproductive force projection that will only increase IS support and recruitment. Even the BS Western and Iraqi Govt. propaganda about massacres and genocide seems to help more than harm their growth.
Even your Pol Pot comparison shows the confusion and raw fear generated by their PsyOps, BTW the Khmer Rouge were a direct response to our massive bombing of Cambodia.
Caliph Ibrahim faces a much more degenerate and vicious Crusader than Saladin did in his day which means that it will be a much bloodier and destructive Jihad to liberate the ME from Western control.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:57am
The only ones being 'liberated' by your Caliph are himself and his sadistic executioners.....certainly those living under this reign of terror hope it will end soon.
You might provide us a detailed map on exactly which part of the Middle East is under 'Western control', and what administrative body of 'westerners' has the governing authority in those regions.
ISIS could be seen, or might be seen in the future, to be in the “Shock and Awe” stage of its military campaign. Ugly and murderous but calculated. Being from approximately the same culture that they intend to dominate and with intentions which will probably remain consistent, they are likely to make fewer stupid [anti-pragmatic] mistakes regarding their ultimate goals.
The US military attempted to rescue "a number of American hostages held in Syria by the Islamic State," the Department of Defense's spokesman said today. The rescue attempt failed as the hostages were not at the location of the raid.
"The United States attempted a rescue operation recently to free a number of American hostages held in Syria by the [Islamic State,or ISIL]," Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby said in a statement released on the Department of Defense's website. "This operation involved air and ground components and was focused on a particular captor network within ISIL. Unfortunately, the mission was not successful because the hostages were not present at the targeted location."
The exact location of the raid inside Syria was not disclosed by the US military.
Kirby indicated that top tier US special operations forces -- two squads of Army Delta Force -- were involved in the rescue operation, according to The New York Times. [....]
Read the embedded NYTimes link for details on how it's all related to Foley.
I'd really like to see the fatwa and the larger theology they use to rationalize the "cash transactions" thing here. Is it something like this: the existence of infidel nations would be permissible to a Caliphate as long as they obediently hand over protection money?
Foley was from Rochester, N.H., which is a twenty minute drive from where I live. Not of much interest to people here, I suppose, but it means it hits close to home.
I would work to build an alliance to destroy ISIS militants. And if Europe and the more moderate Arab states balk (which they won't here I think), I'd support the president if he chose in to go in on our own.
What say we American progressives? Do we cast these folks as freedom fighters, or do we face the truth about who these folks are?
Guilt about American transgressions does not a progressive foreign policy make. It is abdication of our responsibility as human beings with more power (rightly or wrongly) than so many others to do something about it.
We are paralyzed by the legacies of Viet Nam and Iraq; and it's like fiddling while Iraqis die, and age-old cultures disappear before our very eyes. And we take two aspirins, say what a shame, and ask not to be disturbed until the show is over.
Heaven forgive me for seeing little alternative to a military response.
Edited to clarify that I believe that with al Maliki gone, there will be more tolerance in Iraq itself to work with the United States among Shia, more moderate Sunnis, Kurds, and the remnants of the surviving ancient ethnic communities.
I have to add this also, sorry, but persusing the thread there seems to be a presumption among some of us that folks are rallying behind ISIS and will continue to do so. Seems to be kind of a theory of low expectations applied to the people of northern and central Iraq. No, I'm not talking about them welcoming us as heroes a la Cheney, but we cannot let that experience (we all watched us go into a war based on lies) force us into a showroom dummy tunnel vision about what we can and can't do, and what we should or should not presume, and what our special responsibilty is to Iraq in light of our unforgiveable decision to invade her in 2003.
Seems to be kind of a theory of low expectations applied to the people of northern and central Iraq
Nod nod. When I see this coming from people who are wont to complain about imperialism towards the brown peoples, I always wonder if they see the ironies inherent in their position.
CAIRO: Egypt’s top religious authority condemned Al-Qaeda splinter group ISIS which has taken over parts of Iraq and Syria, describing it as a corrupt, extremist organization that is damaging Islam.
“An extremist and bloody group such as this poses a danger to Islam and Muslims, tarnishing its image as well as shedding blood and spreading corruption,” said Al-Azhar’s Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, the state news agency MENA reported Tuesday.
Egyptian media reports said Allam also expressed his objection to “widespread error” in referring to the group as “the Islamic State,” its new name, because it violates both long-established principles of Shariah and the contemporary foundations of humanitarian law [....]
If Iraq’s neighbours will not address the threat, outsiders can achieve little, says Shashank Joshi
The Middle East hosts a formidable array of air power. Between them, the six nations of the Gulf Co-operation Council possess more than 600 combat-capable aircraft. Add Jordan, Turkey, and Egypt, and you have 1,000 more.
Why, then, is only the US dropping bombs on the jihadis of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) as they expand their “caliphate” in the heart of the region? Why has Britain deployed half a dozen fighter jets to nearby Cyprus while a vast cache of firepower lies dormant nearby? And why are distant European powers rushing to arm the embattled Kurds?
The Arab world has failed to come to terms with the most grievous threat it has faced since Saddam Hussein led Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait two decades ago. It has preferred to ride on the coat-tails of outsiders while castigating western “inaction”. It is time for the Arab world, and neighbours such as Turkey, to act.
To help them do it, the west must first understand three Arab fears. First, [....]
I am reminded by reading it that Obama's foreign policy often leans this way, i.e., push others with more skin in the game to do the leading, and just assist. He gets criticism for it from Republicans and even from Hillary Clinton types.
Here's another alternate vision, coming from Obama's ambassador to Iraq from 2010-2012on Aug. 15, James B. Jeffries. He basically argues that the sooner "pinprick" interventions are done means the lesser involvement, and that a wait-and-see approach is what would doom us to "slippery slope" ala Vietnam etc."
Jeffries can stuff it. Let the Arabs deal with their own renegades and murderers. The US 'protect' Turkey?
Turkey can defend itself. Perhaps if their blustering Islamist leader spent less time sending phony 'relief ships', and assailing Israel for responding to Hamas terrorists Turkey could deal with ending the Syrian war, and reducing the terrorist forces, just across it's own border.
Jeffries also manages to not even mention the great Muslim kingdom of Saudi Arabia. British royalty, Prince William, fought in Afghanistan, while Saudi princes are more likely to be found on the French Riviera, or driving about Europe with suitcases full of cash, like the one robbed near Paris this week of 300,000 euros. The Saudi's seem to love sending money to these terrorists, for once they should face the consequences when the terrorists threaten them.
This is really off-thread but I really like the point you make contrasting British and Saudi royalty, it's just a useful comparison for thought provocation.
Leaving aside judgments and debates along the lines of "what are they good for" and dinosaurs yadda yadda, just looking at it analytically. In Western societies and Japan, the royals that are left have become servants of their societies, generally used for P.R. purposes. Elsewhere, in like Thailand, for example, the P.R. message is still kind of crucial to hold the society together, not so much anymore in like Europe and Japan, where the P.R. message is mostly about cultural pride and related tourism business, etc.
In the Gulf States, though, it's no change from the days of yore elsewhere. They don't serve, they rule and they just take. It's really pretty outrageous in some cases like your example. Lazy ass do nothing gets everything because of his birthright. And criticism from official circles elsewhere is rare. Because, in one word: OIL Ok, another word: CASH paid to the luxury goods market in the west.
I saw the initial stories about the robbery and was amazed that his name was not being released, that they had the power to do that to the media. Now that I know who it is I am even more amazed. The story in itself is fascinating because in one report I read about it, there is a gang or gangs targeting these guys in a very professional way and getting inside info. somehow. And they expect the western law enforcement to give them special protection? Well, it makes for good movie scripts for westerners, I guess.
20.
Directs the Committee to make accessible on the Committee’s website narrative summaries of reasons for listing the individuals specified in Annex I of this resolution as agreed by the Council and confirms that the provisions of resolution 2161 (2014) and subsequent relevant resolutions shall apply to the names specified in Annex I for so long as they remain on the Al Qaida Sanctions List
But I am disappointed as can't find "Annex I".
I figured out what they mean by "the committee" by going to the Security Council website's "subsidiary organs" page:
P.S. Suggest those interested take a gander at the resolution itself, it is not a general anti-terror thing, but very specific to Iraq and Syria, starting out, after reaffirming a list of previous resolutions, with this phrase
Reaffirming the independence, sovereignty, unity and territorial integrity of the Republic of Iraq and Syrian Arab Republic, and reaffirming further the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations....
Does IS have to be knocking down the doors of the Royal Harems for the Kingdom to get into the fight? More likely.......they would ask Allah to save them, and shortly after implore the US military to defile their holy ground, and save their bank accounts and way of life.
The UN thing is (quick read) to cut funding of IS from 4 Saudi's/Kuwait's who have been on a terror 'seize funds' list for years, and apparently the Kingdom is now worried enough take recognition of that fact.
Donors apparently don't matter much as to the big picture:
Unlike al Qaeda and other Sunni terrorist groups, which relied heavily on funding from wealthy Gulf state patrons, the amount of financial aid that ISIS gets from rich Sunnis outside Iraq and Syria “pales in comparison” to its self-generated funds, said the official.
The article details the types of activities, basically summarized here:
"It's like the Mafia. When it sees an opportunity to make money, it jumps in with both feet," he told NBC News. "So historically, they've made money on everything from protection rackets to carjacking to people's donations. … Now, they're selling resources they've taken from oil fields and oil refineries ... (and collecting) ransom."
Where wealthy Sunnis come in is paying kidnap ransoms, along with other wealthy families, and European governments.
Confirming Gulf states' increased weapons capabililty, I remember posting this in the news section--and it turned up easy using the site's Google search:
...Saudi Arabia was the world's 10th-largest weapons importer in 2008-2012 (the Emirates was No. 9). And Saudi Arabia is expected to be among the top five for 2013-17 "due to major outstanding orders, such as for 48 Typhoon combat aircraft from the UK and 152 F-15SA combat aircraft from the USA."...
Empathy for fellow human beings and a wish to prevent their wrongful suffering and death is both natural to most and admirable where it exists. When death occurs in great numbers it is natural for empathy to lead to a sincere wish to help. I say that and whatever follows with absolutely no snark or disrespect intended.
History has already happened, it has already determined facts on the ground everywhere even if they are hard to see clearly, but the future is still in flux. Our country has tried for some time to solve problems with military intervention. It hasn’t worked that I can see.
When my son was in his early twenties and before 9-11, he decided to join the Marines. My entire extended family piled on in an attempt to dissuade him. My father who had spent a good deal of time in the Phillippeanes during WWII would have, I believe, joined in but had already passed. His mother obviously aware of his immaturity and wanting him to see it too, used many arguments but mostly asked him if he thought he would be willing to kill someone just because he was told that it was the right thing to do. His maternal grandfather who had spent a rough tour in Korea during that war probably was the one who talked him out of joining.
I am grateful beyond expression that my son did not join and somewhat shamed that I only pushed him to choose a different service that might confer the benefits of service but would likely not extract the price paid by so many. I tried to get him to join the coast Guard.Had he become a Marine he would have been around two years into a longer commitment when 9-11 “changed everything”. He would almost certainly have been held in for several deployments in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. Instead, he is now a very good family man sharing with his first generation Vietnamese/American wife in the raising of two very fine children, but his entire life would have probably turned differently than it has if he had joined. He would almost certainly be a different person today and I have no reason to believe he would have been a better one. He might be dead or crippled or just all fucked mentally up like so many.
It is inconceivable that going forward you or I will ever face a foreign enemy in a shoot or be shot situation. We are safe to express our wishes for things others would be forced to do. Though our thoughts expressed here will have zero affect on our nation’s policies, we are still advocating for one thing as opposed to another. That, I believe makes the following a fair question. Would you/could you, make the same choice if your son was one of the ones to carry it out? If your son whom you have described with the same pride I have in my son came to you with a decision to change the apparent arc of his current life and to join the Army or Marines as a rifleman so that he could go fight ISIS as you suggest it is our responsibility to do, [and with which I do not totally disagree] what would you advise him?
As for myself, If my son had joined after I had not wrestled him to the ground and performed a humanitarian intervention, then heaven might have forgiven me but I could never have forgiven myself had he come to harm.
Edited to correct a couple mistakes in construction.
I would rather not make this about me lulu and what I would do if it were my son or daughters. I've raised 3 independent thinking kids, working on a fourth. If you think that's at issue in this debate I understand. You've seen things in war I've not and I respect that.
P.S. Just to add that I really appreciate your piece and it deserves more attention than I've given it. I'm on vacation now, and I'm about to be challenged by another member of my family big time if I don't quit looking at the computer. She's telling me something about a connection between vacation and relaxation or something. Hopefully later. Thanks Lulu.
Sorry for the delay but allow me to just elaborate a bit on my initial response. First of all, I know lots of folks tend not to talk about their families and personal lives in the way I often do, and I respect and fully understand that. But I have to say there is something important about such personal references in the proper circumstances, and this I think is one of them. It sounds like you have a wonderful son, and a loving family, and have been blessed with two grandchildren. You are a lucky man and I am happy for you and I appreciate the added dimension to our somewhat long and rocky relationship (fwiw).
I don't know what I would do if one of my kids was going off to fight thousands of miles away, and candidly I often feel a bit sheepish about getting so personal on this front because when I was 18 I didn't give military service a passing thought. That was 1977, after Viet Nam, and after the draft, but I would be less than candid if I told you that nobody in my world was joining the service. In fact, like many small towns all over this country, many of my dearest friends chose the military in lieu of heading straight to college. Those were bad times economically, and the service was often one of few options for my classmates. So it wasn't like the military option wasn't there for me; I just never considered it.
Anyway, the point of all this is that I have never been able to comfortably respond to questions relating to my own lack of service and by extension to the respective decisions of my own kids to head on to college. But I guess in the end I just cannot ignore questions relating to the use of the military overseas because I think about these things, and the military dimension just doesn't go away. I know you think about these things too, and I know you have seen things up close and way too personal when you were a young man in Viet Nam, and once again I really do honor and respect that part of your life in a number of ways such that it gives you special standing among us to opine on matters of war and peace.
In any event, once again I don't know how I would respond if one of my kids was going overseas, but I have seen what it does to parents in those situations. My principal client's kid was over in Fallujah for that offensive and did two separate tours in Iraq. It was literally killing him on a daily basis; I remember him saying that he just wanted him home so he could smell him (this being said by a 6'4" tough-guy Teamster about his 20 something son in the Marines). I don't think I would do half as well in a similar circumstance.
I'm not sure that fully responds to your heart-felt comment, but please understand that I am trying to be as open and honest with you as I can be. I don't like to see people die.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I know that it might sometimes be unfair to ask a question of that nature to you or anyone, it can be like the question put to Dukakis about the death penalty if his wife was a victim. Some decisions must be made from a personal psychological remove and that is impossible when kin are directly at stake, but it does zero in on a point that I wish everyone considered. At least that is the intent.
There is not much more to say now without going afield a bit but I will say that I was trying to put you on the spot with my question becauseit happened to be you who presented the opportunity and because military intervention as a cure-all, often for invented problems, is a sore spot with me, as it should be for all, IMO, and is aggravated by all the bad reasons for interventions sold with lies as high-minded benevolent and heroic duty. So, I am likely to be less than diplomatic even when I can see, if I slow down a bit, that I am addressing someone with honest motives. Of coarse I do not always agree with other’s motives or with their chosen solutions just because I believe them to be honest, but those are the ones worth debating while I try [as a rather pointless hobby, I think, momentum of pig headed-ness being stronger than what uncommon common sense adopted by any one national side, but displayed by none, could possibly stand against] to present what I believe to be better ideas, or at least ideas worth considering.
I am off next week to watch my grandson play in a baseball tournament. He made his Little League All-Star Team and is now competing in Travel Ball on a ten and eleven year old team that usually plays up in eleven and twelve year old tournaments and usually wins. What fun.
David Ignatius, Washington Post columnist and intelligence expert, defends the president's gradual approach thus far in combating ISIS, and predicts that ISIS will ultimately fail as, he says, Osama bin Laden knew he had failed in the months before his death.
I thought of posting this, too, I like some of the points he makes.
Obviously one of them is that he agrees with me about the counter-productivity thing, and points out that Bin Laden eventually did, too. To have staying power, a movement has to win some genuine hearts and minds, even if it's a small, passionate group. Jihadi cool targeted to adolescent male frustration is not a lasting thing, it's really just another version of using youth for "cannon fodder." The cannon fodder thing, that's what's been proven to have happened with so many young suicide bombers as well.
And guess what, that segues a little into what you and Lulu are getting at with young folks joining up out of temporary passions or needs. I'm turned off by all sides doing that, always have been. As a proud feminist, I am extra turned off by it: the more young male hormonal excess is manipulated by elders to their own ends, the less I like it. It's hard for me to find respect anyone who signs up for military duty out of some passionate beliefs about one thing or another or something that happened. If you've got those kind of beliefs, whether you hate what those Yankees or Indians did to your kin or the Kaiser did to France, work for them in another way, not by volunteering to be an instrument of war. Soldiering should be professional, just like policing should be professional. Throwing in youthful passion is doom for us all, the best drill sergeants beat it out of them.
"Winning the hearts and minds" is a Western Occupying Army pacification PSYOPs tactic that relies on bribes and punishment to try to subdue a resisting population.
The Islamic State is a local, Arab, Muslim, liberation force who would not exist without a large local support base.
Western pundits are trying desperately to disarm this growing revolution with wishful thinking and Paternalistic quotes from Tamed and Integrated Western Muslims which will surely correct the thinking of these " frustrated adolescents", nothing makes young warriors with guns more docile than being talked down to.
by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 08/23/2014 - 12:29pm
Making grossly exaggerated claims about refugees reflects poorly on your sources, Art. There is a war going on and there will be many people displaced, with an estimated 150,000 people fleeing Mosul, that left 1.65 Million people remaining under the Islamic State. Mosul would never have been conquered by less than a thousand IS fighters without a large number of local supporters. An Iraqi Army source I read estimated there were 5 Million supporters of the IS in Iraq alone.
I don't think that searching for real facts and truth about this historic conflict is "cheerleading" although I do believe that this path is the only way the people of the Muslim World will ever cast off Western domination and be free to create their own future.
Women's struggle for rights and respect will not end with the creation of the Caliphate in the ME or the West and I'm sure there will be many Muslim women supporters of the IS who will lead that struggle.
by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 7:26pm
The future ISIS is creating is bad, and except maybe for the Sunni Arabs(twenty percent of the population), Iraqis don't want it. If female supporters of ISIS struggle for women's rights, they will be struggling against ISIS, which will kill them or jail them.
Sunni Muslims in Iraq may 'support ISIS' because Iraqi government/Iranian backed Shiite militias are killing Sunni's by the job lot (like a couple day ago after prayers) and ISIS is killing Shiite, Christian and Yadizis, not Sunni's.
More a prospect for perpetual war than some blossoming of 'freedom from Western domination'.
This 'Peter logic' on the folks staying in Mosul, is like saying 39 million French in 1942 supported Nazi occupation because they didn't flee Vichy France.
I made no assumptions about the people who stayed in Mosul from the numbers, I simply was countering Art's claim that everyone was fleeing from the Islamic State. I did use logic to deduce that the IS must have had a large support base in Mosul to have been able to take the city and this is true throughout much of the area they have conquered, i.e. Falluja.
The Shia leadership in Iraq had ten years to build a shared government but they choose to follow the lead of Iran and punish the Sunni population, they are about to pay a heavy price for that arrogance.
The Islamic State is fighting anyone who opposes them with arms including Sunnis. Sunnis make up about 85% of Muslims worldwide and the Caliphate recognizes no petty nationalist borders. The IS is not fighting Christians or "Yadizis" they are fighting Sunni Peshmerga who abandoned the Yazidis when they were overrun and the Shia military and militias.
The US is the master of "Perpetual War" and if this war is perpetual it will be the US who maintains it.
by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 11:08pm
That ISIS conquered Mosul is not evidence that ISIS has a large support base in that city. Lebanese Christians overran Karantina and Tell al Zaatar and massacred the inhabitants, does that mean the Phalangists had a large support base in those places?
ISIS is trying to impose minority rule and theocratic tyranny on Iraq; your support for this is repellent.
The small Lebanese battles you use for comparison will be forgotten while the rout of the Iraqi Army at Mosul will be studied at War Colleges for generations.
Iraq will cease to exist as a Western creation in the Caliphate so your sectarian view is too narrow and biased.
I will not pass judgment on your inherent exceptionalism because I have suffered from the same conditioning to worship nationalism and our hegemony as a " Natural" desired condition.
by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 08/25/2014 - 11:23am
I don't see how a failure to endorse ISIS rule over Iraq means worshiping nationalism or hegemony. What is good about replacing Iraq with a medievalist Sunni caliphate?
Perhaps the small battles in Lebanon are not comparable to the battle for Mosul. Perhaps we should ask if the capture of Aachen and Berlin in 1945 are evidence of popular support for the Americans and Soviets among Germans.
I think the battle of Thermopylae might be more comparable to the battle of Mosul, inverted of course.
Your view of the Islamic State as medieval says more about your conditioning than their aspirations, they sure have embraced modern technology and PR. If they look to any era for inspiration that era would reflect the height of Islamic power and civilization while Europeans lived in ignorance and squalor.
I have never suggested anyone endorse the IS, I have only tried to clear away the BS, lies and propaganda that help no one to understand this historic movement in the ME. Iraq nor Syria are being replaced, they are being incorporated back into the Caliphate to destroy the Western imposed divisions that have been used to divide and rule the ME.
by Peter (not verified) on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:46pm
How many Arabs do you think want to be "incorporated back into the Caliphate"? Do you even care about their wishes?
During the "height of Islamic power and civilization" there was despotism, religious and gender bigotry, and a brutal penal code. These are the values ISIS wants to impose on people.
You are not clearing away BS, you are shoveling BS.
Recent events would seem to indicate large numbers of supporters in Syria and Iraq but the only estimate I have seen claims 5 Million supporters in Iraq which may be enough as it seems support is growing around the world.
The Islamic State is now recruiting in Ferguson MO offering converts full protection and equal rights under Sharia Law regardless of race, something these citizens have never and will never be afforded under democracy. We may soon be seeing the black flag of Jihad waving over our own Gazas.
by Peter (not verified) on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:39pm
Well isn't that nice of them offering all converts to Salafist Sunni Islam in Ferguson equal rights! And what do people of all colors of other creeds get? Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds to even use the term "equal rights" in such a context? puhleez this is even over the top for you.
Edit to add: It occurs to me I might guess the answer to my own question! What they get is to be chased out of their homes and across the Mississippi River into Illinois! In the good ole time spirit of "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!" No infidels in St. Louis County! Cleansed! Might take a beheading lynching or two, but eventually they'll get it cleansed. Makes it easy, no mixing, no need for separate water fountains!
I know it may be hard for you to understand but under the Caliphate and Sharia Law there is no institutional racism, unlike our democracy and judicial system where it is ingrained and perpetual.
Your reaction to this hypothetical conversion, of the people of Ferguson, sounds like a rant from the front page of Storm Front, should we consider Humanitarian Bombing to save the Infidels or perhaps we should send in the White Xtian Death Squads.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 2:26pm
One should be weary of all who are certain that they hear the true word of God or Allah. We have seen Somali Muslims slaughter Kenyan Christians
John 16:2b-3, “… the time is coming when those who kill you will think they are doing a holy service for God. This is because they have never known the Father or Me.”
Qur’an Sura 3:64, “Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers [Jews and Christians] and has prepared for them a Blazing Fire to dwell in forever. No protector will they find, nor savior… ‘Our Lord! Give them double torment and curse them with a very great Curse!’”
I would hope that you can comprehend the difference between individual racism and "Institutional Racism", RM. The latter is an integral part of our "System" and affects even the non-racist individual.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 7:39pm
I would like to alter my "cannon fodder" terminology. It should be "sicko young male violence junkies from around the world used as fodder." Anthony Burgess would no doubt think this a little too over the top to be believable; even Quentin Tarantino might think it too much::
ANKARA, Turkey — Having spent most of his youth as a drug addict in one of the poorest neighborhoods of Turkey’s capital, Can did not think he had much to lose when he was smuggled into Syria with 10 of his childhood friends to join the world’s most extreme jihadist group.
After 15 days at a training camp in the Syrian city of Raqqa, the de facto headquarters of the group, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, the 27-year-old Can was assigned to a fighting unit. He said he shot two men and participated in a public execution. It was only after he buried a man alive that he was told he had become a full ISIS fighter.
“When you fight over there, it’s like being in a trance,” said Can, who asked to be referred to only by his middle name for fear of reprisal. “Everyone shouts, ‘God is the greatest,’ which gives you divine strength to kill the enemy without being fazed by blood or splattered guts,” he said.
Hundreds of foreign fighters, including some from Europe and the United States, have joined the ranks of ISIS in its self-proclaimed caliphate [...]
It doesn't matter if what the braggart says is true or not, it matters that he would brag about the high. The greatest gives you "divine" strength to get high on blood and guts with your homies. What ever happened to that Allah the all merciful and most merciful guy? I thought the greeting he inspired was peace be unto you not fear and loathing of be unto you?
You do understand that Egypt is a secular Western style military dictatorship masquerading as a democracy. When it is incorporated into the Caliphate, Sharia Law will replace any of the institutions that are racist.
Cannon-fodder usually refers to conscripts wasted on a losing cause while volunteers make a Conquering Army.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 10:21pm
Maldivian Foreign Minister Dhunya Maumoon has declared that the acts of Islamic State (IS) in Iraq and Syria are out of context according to the values preached by Islam, and that the religion is being ridiculed globally because of their assumed caliphate and the havoc they have created.
Declaring so in a Foreign Ministry press release, the Minister said that the acts of IS are acts of terrorism and defied all Human Rights. She said that due to terror they were spreading, the moderate Islam and the Muslim community are losing its prestige globally.
“Accepting and maintaining peace, as preached by Islam and other basic principles of unity in our religion contradict with the organization’s behaviour. Because of their actions, our glorious religion is being tarnished worldwide”, the press release reads [...]
Doha (AFP) - The organisation of exiled Muslim Brotherhood spiritual guide Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi said Wednesday that the actions of "deviant groups" like the jihadist Islamic State were in violation of Islamic law.
Qaradawi's International Union of Muslim Scholars described as "criminal and unlawful" an offensive led by the group's fighters against non-Muslims in northern Iraq earlier this month.
The Egyptian-born cleric wields huge influence with the Brotherhood's supporters across the Arab world through his frequent appearances on Al-Jazeera television from his base in exile in Qatar.
His group said it "categorically prohibits the actions of some excessive and deviant groups, such as killing innocent Muslims and non-Muslims, under the cover of repugnant sectarianism one time, or under the name of the so-called Islamic State the other time."[...]
[....] 'We support US strikes against Daesh,' said Abu Al-Muqdad, a fighter in Aleppo with the Islamic Front, a rebel coalition, using the Arabic acronym for the Islamic State (IS).
'They have ravaged the country, oppressed the people, make no distinction between combatants and civilians, and slaughtered with knives,' he said.
'I hope they bomb them and not a single one is left. Those people are not Muslims, they are infidels,' added another rebel officer, who heads a special operations battalion within the Islamic Front coalition [....]
Syrian rebels initially welcomed jihadist fighters into their battle against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
But IS's insistence on dominating territory captured from the regime, its harsh interpretation of Islam, and abuses including decapitations have alienated many rebels and civilians [....]
But many rebels continue to see IS and the Syrian regime as two faces of the same coin.
'I'm in favour of American air strikes on the areas controlled by Daesh because they and the regime, they're one and the same,' said Jaber, who heads the Islamic Front's military police unit in eastern Aleppo city.
'The regime is bombing us with explosive barrel bombs and Daesh is killing our people with knives,' he said [....}
Activist Abdullah is equally eager to see IS militants targeted.
'Daesh is a new enemy that hides under the cover of Islam. It's totally unacceptable.'[....]
SIDON, Lebanon: The Future Movement and Al-Jamaa al-Islamiya, the Lebanese branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, voiced support Thursday for the Lebanese Army and security forces in their battle against terrorism, while rejecting any form of religious extremism [....]
Speaking to reporters after the meeting, Bassam Hammoud, Jamaa’s political representative in south Lebanon, said: “We affirm that terrorism and extremism are rejected by everyone. We reject all forms of extremism and all forms of killing by any party. We support the state project. We support the security forces and the Lebanese Army. But we also refuse that the so-called ‘Daesh’ be used as a pretext to muzzle the freedom of opinion and expression.”
He was referring to the Al-Qaeda splinter group, the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS), whose Arabic acronym is “Daesh.”[....]
By Wassim Bassem, Iraq Pulse, translated by Al-Monitor, Aug. 28, 2014
[....] Saad Hussein, the director of the Martyrs Foundation in Hamza al-Gharbi, believes that disclosing the names of the victims and considering them martyrs would ease the pain of their families; he recalled the missing persons of the mass graves under Saddam Hussein’s regime, where families suffered greatly before the dead were recognized as martyrs.
Sabrin al-Khafaji, a psychological researcher said, “This incident left significant psychological scars within society, notably the belief that what happened is a sectarian liquidation, which greatly affects coexistence within society.
Everyone fears the danger that IS represents for minorities, especially after the Yazidis in Iraq and several tribes were forced to leave their homes; in addition, the Christians were forced to choose between converting to Islam, paying a jizya [tax] or being killed.
However, the head of the opposition Syrian National Council, George Sabra, thinks that “the fear that IS creates affects Muslims more than Christians. The proof is that the Sunni Muslims in Raqqa were the first to face IS and the first to become its victims.” [....]
The Islamic State and the regime
When speaking of the danger represented by IS, some believe that if dictatorship is not eliminated, there is no point in eliminating terrorism, especially since the second is inevitably the result of the first. It is important to eliminate a disease from its roots instead of simply cutting the branches off. Sabra agrees with this logic and believes that “terrorism cannot be divided.” He explained, “IS, which is spread across the Syrian and Iraqi lands, is one entity. It will not be logical for its presence in Iraq, and not Syria, to be a danger for the region, especially since the Syrians endured its danger first.”
On the subject of “terrorism is one,” Sabra believes that “the terrorism of the regime and its allies, in addition to the security, sectarian and military reinforcements it recruited from Lebanon and Iraq, represent a pressure on the Syrians’ lives, inciting violence, extremism and instability in the region.”
Source of terrorism
The Syrian opposition does not want the US role to be limited to fighting IS but to also include the Syrian regime, because, according to Sabra, “It is well known that the Syrian regime and the Iranian intelligence services have significantly contributed in establishing the Islamic State’s plan and supporting it.” He said, “Two years ago, IS occupied Raqqa and it is still present in the province’s headquarters. When the regime’s aircraft shell the schools and hospitals, they keep away from the headquarters. IS also used its military and terrorist expertise against the Syrians and the Free Syrian Army, but there were never any significant clashes with [Syrian President] Bashar al-Assad’s forces.”
The Syrian opposition addressed a letter to the US administration stating that Syrians are waiting to truly fight terrorism, and that it cannot be done unless the head of terrorism is eliminated, which is the Syrian regime [....]
Making sense of Isis
By Aijaz Zaka Syed, Print Op-Ed, News International (Pakistan), August 29, 2014
[....] After facing long years of Islam-bashing and being blamed for the crimes of Al-Qaeda and others, this is just what we needed.A grand PR nightmare and disaster for an already much demonised global community.
An Indian friend who has been enjoying the fruits of the good life in Norway and never stops singing paeans of the generosity and tolerance of the Scandinavian countries, talks of a sudden change in the way people view Muslims now. If this is the case in the Norwegian paradise, you can imagine the love and goodwill the faithful are showered with in mainland Europe or America.
The Islamic State and the so-called caliphate it promises is like our worst nightmare come true.
As Yvonne Ridley reasons, Isis has achieved in a matter of weeks what the US and its allies failed to do in 10 years of occupation. This hasn’t happened by accident; military victories on this scale take strategic planning and inside help. So who, exactly, is behind Isis?
More importantly, who stands to benefit from this carefully calibrated mayhem in the heart of the Middle East? The same folks who created Al-Qaeda and used it ingenuously and effectively for years until Osama and his baby had exhausted their uses and were past their sell-by date.
Look at the uncanny similarity in the methods used by Al-Qaeda and IS – from the chilling murder of Daniel Pearl to the barbaric beheading of James Foley this month, both US journalists incidentally. There is a method in the madness.
I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but the scepter of Isis – and all such groups – is evidently a grand conspiracy against Islam and its followers, just as Al-Qaeda had been. And you see the fingerprints of CIA, Mossad and their willing collaborators all over this baby.
As author Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya argues, the targeting of Christians and other minorities in Iraq and Syria and attempts to remap the Middle East are aimed at paving the way for the clash of civilisations that the likes of Samuel Huntington and Bernard Lewis have obsessed over for years.
So it is good that Arab and Muslim states seem to be waking up to the monster that is staring them in the face. The recent Arab ministers’ brainstorming in Jeddah and the Saudi-Iran confabulations seeking a common front against Isis are welcome. So are the strong denunciations by top Islamic scholars and ordinary Muslims [.....]
Where you see reasoned opposition to the Islamic State I see panicked purveyors of the status quo, frightened talking heads and so called "Leaders" who will say and eventually do almost anything to save their heads. When these pundits do stoop to talk to people in the streets of the ME you get a much different perspective on the attitudes about life and the future of the ME.
These fools still think they can tell the people of the world what they want or should have but that dominance is a rapidly fading illusion. The Ruling Class of the ME is facing their battle of Armageddon but the US and the Western Powers may create a true Apocalypse.
by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 12:56pm
It seems you want to replace one group of tyrants with another group of tyrants. Those who disagree with ISIS face death. Wow that's a great improvement.
It seems you want Washington or Brussels to make these decisions for the People of the ME, when you parrot Western propaganda. The West has no concern for the people of the ME only our mercantile interests and control.
If you want to talk about death just revisit our last dance of the death cult in Iraq where we dispatched hundreds of thousands of innocents to their bloody doom.
by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 3:15pm
That does not address my point. Why would. I support any movement that would kill me because of my faith?
[....] the Takfiris who recently murdered James Foley and hundreds of other defenceless victims in Iraq and Syria – do they believe they are acting courageously? Barbarically slaughtering captives? What virtue are they demonstrating exactly? They reveal only what a Takfiri state would look like, should this movement actually try to govern in the future. It would be a harsh, mean-spirited, house of blood, where no shade would be offered, nor shelter given, to any non-Takfiri in their midst. In the Takfiri world, unless your view is identical to theirs – and theirs is extremely narrow and unyielding - you forfeit your right to life. In the Takfiri mind, as we have seen in Nigeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Kenya, Somalia, Mali, Libya, Syria and Iraq, and throughout the world where they have attacked innocent people, including on 9/11, there is no love of neighbour -- only annihilation to those Muslims, Christians, Jews and others (altogether the rest of humanity) who believe differently to them. [....]
The latest report by the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic brings fresh evidence that this ancient civilisation has devolved into a slaughterhouse, where children are tortured in front of their parents or executed in public, amid wanton killing and destruction. That report will be fully explored in the course of an interactive dialogue during this session.
Spreading outwards from its initial anchorage in the chaos of the Syrian conflict, the Takfiri or so-called ISIL group that currently in effect controls large swathes of northern Iraq has demonstrated absolute and deliberate disregard for human rights. The scale of its use of brute violence against ethnic and religious groups is unprecedented in recent times, as the Special Session of this Council made clear last week.
I solemnly remind this Council that widespread or systematic attacks on segments of the civilian population because of their ethnic background or religious beliefs constitute a crime against humanity, for which those responsible must be held accountable. I would also like to stress that international law requires that both the State and armed groups take all measures to minimise the impact of violence on civilians, respect the principles of distinction and proportionality when carrying out military operations, and ensure that civilians can leave areas affected by violence in safety and dignity.
From a human rights perspective, it is clear that the immediate and urgent priority of the international community should be to halt the increasingly conjoined conflicts in Iraq and Syria. In particular, dedicated efforts are urgently needed to protect religious and ethnic groups, children – who are at risk of forcible recruitment and sexual violence – and women, who have been the targets of severe restrictions.
The second step, as my predecessor consistently stressed, must be to ensure accountability for gross violations of human rights and other international crimes. Impunity can only lead to further conflict and abuses, as revenge festers and the wrong lessons are learned. Accountability, and public acknowledgment of the wrongs that victims have suffered, is important to ensuring that crimes will not be repeated, and the only way to begin to repair a sense of common community in these devastated societies. Iraq, with its new prime minister, should consider accession to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court [....]
Comments
A profile of James Foley. The family has confirmed that he died. He sounds like he was an absolutely incredible human being. Journalism was a second career for him, after having taught for several years after college. He covered Libya (and was held captive by Qadaffi loyalists for a time), he was in Afghanistan, and then finally he was in Syria, which is where he was kidnapped on Thanksgiving Day in 2012.
by Bruce Levine on Tue, 08/19/2014 - 11:59pm
By Hassan Bleibel, from DailyStar.com.lb (Lebanon) Aug. 21.
by artappraiser on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 4:23pm
From The Atlantic ,we learn that Foley graduated from Northwestern University and went on to work with Teach for America. Those are same exact credentials that my son has.
More importantly, the Atlantic piece points to the difficulty of reporting from Syria and what that means, i.e. we don't see it.
by Bruce Levine on Wed, 08/20/2014 - 12:48am
In a civil war between the brutal (Bashar) and the maniacal (you know who...) what should be our choice? I, myself, wonder if a volte-face is not needed, where we hook up with the Shia (more or liess vindicating George's Excellent Iraqi Adventure) and dump the Saudis (just when you think it can't get crazier than the procession of flagellating mourners at Ashura, you are confronted by the British accented beheaders).
by jollyroger on Wed, 08/20/2014 - 8:53pm
If they keep beheading people and raping women people may think they are not nice people. As to Shiites, Sunnis and Saudis:
BTW in his book INTELLIGENCE MATTERS: The CIA, the FBI, Saudi Arabia, and the Failure of America's War on Terror former Senator Bob Graham, who chaired the rarely reported or mentioned 2002 9/11 Joint Congressional Investigation noted many connections of the Saudi's to the Saudi hijackers of 9/11, along with Bush administration failures and prevarications (FBI's Mueller 'The 9/11 terrorists did not have contact from anyone we knew had terrorist connections', (they did have many contacts with Saudi intelligence, and the Saudi's did not like Saddam).
by NCD on Wed, 08/20/2014 - 10:10pm
If they keep beheading people and raping women people may think they are not nice people.
I keep reading stuff saying how savvy they are, i.e., social media and stuff. I don't get it. I don't see it. Let's say for rhetorical purposes that I was simpatico with their goals. I still see: idiots! I really don't get their whole propaganda campaign. They're idiots.
They've even got a historic model that they could follow:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin#Recognition_and_legacy
But noooo. They're sticking with the fear and loathing thing. Not even the evil Western white man model. More like the Pol Pot model?
As to Shiites, Sunnis and Saudis
See the above link again. Probably not unrelated that was a Kurd.
by artappraiser on Wed, 08/20/2014 - 11:33pm
Thr Islamic State's media campaign seems to be quite successful both as PR and PsyOps. Their numbers are now estimated at 50,000 and growing rapidly with millions of supporters.
The West especially the US are blundering along with the usual reactionary counterproductive force projection that will only increase IS support and recruitment. Even the BS Western and Iraqi Govt. propaganda about massacres and genocide seems to help more than harm their growth.
Even your Pol Pot comparison shows the confusion and raw fear generated by their PsyOps, BTW the Khmer Rouge were a direct response to our massive bombing of Cambodia.
Caliph Ibrahim faces a much more degenerate and vicious Crusader than Saladin did in his day which means that it will be a much bloodier and destructive Jihad to liberate the ME from Western control.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:57am
The only ones being 'liberated' by your Caliph are himself and his sadistic executioners.....certainly those living under this reign of terror hope it will end soon.
You might provide us a detailed map on exactly which part of the Middle East is under 'Western control', and what administrative body of 'westerners' has the governing authority in those regions.
by NCD on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 4:03pm
ISIS could be seen, or might be seen in the future, to be in the “Shock and Awe” stage of its military campaign. Ugly and murderous but calculated. Being from approximately the same culture that they intend to dominate and with intentions which will probably remain consistent, they are likely to make fewer stupid [anti-pragmatic] mistakes regarding their ultimate goals.
by A Guy Called LULU on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:20pm
I say it again: idiots. Smart Shia radicals know how to play their simplistic fear and loathing message.
by artappraiser on Sat, 08/23/2014 - 8:17pm
Read the embedded NYTimes link for details on how it's all related to Foley.
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:01am
Turns out ISIS' desire for bloody retribution using hostages might be assuaged for $100 million:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/world/middleeast/isis-pressed-for-rans...
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 1:37am
from Full text of the last email the Islamic State sent to the Foley family Global Post, Aug. 21., The last time James Foley's parents heard from their son's captors was on Aug. 12. They received this message.
Lovely message to send grieving parents.
I'd really like to see the fatwa and the larger theology they use to rationalize the "cash transactions" thing here. Is it something like this: the existence of infidel nations would be permissible to a Caliphate as long as they obediently hand over protection money?
by artappraiser on Fri, 08/22/2014 - 1:11am
My curiosity about some kind of possible fatwa like this in jihadi circles is serious, because this recent "your money or your life" short news story. that I read just continued to stick in my mind for some reason.
by artappraiser on Fri, 08/22/2014 - 1:47am
Foley was from Rochester, N.H., which is a twenty minute drive from where I live. Not of much interest to people here, I suppose, but it means it hits close to home.
by Aaron Carine on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 6:25am
As it should Aaron.
by Bruce Levine on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 1:07pm
I would work to build an alliance to destroy ISIS militants. And if Europe and the more moderate Arab states balk (which they won't here I think), I'd support the president if he chose in to go in on our own.
What say we American progressives? Do we cast these folks as freedom fighters, or do we face the truth about who these folks are?
Guilt about American transgressions does not a progressive foreign policy make. It is abdication of our responsibility as human beings with more power (rightly or wrongly) than so many others to do something about it.
We are paralyzed by the legacies of Viet Nam and Iraq; and it's like fiddling while Iraqis die, and age-old cultures disappear before our very eyes. And we take two aspirins, say what a shame, and ask not to be disturbed until the show is over.
Heaven forgive me for seeing little alternative to a military response.
Edited to clarify that I believe that with al Maliki gone, there will be more tolerance in Iraq itself to work with the United States among Shia, more moderate Sunnis, Kurds, and the remnants of the surviving ancient ethnic communities.
I have to add this also, sorry, but persusing the thread there seems to be a presumption among some of us that folks are rallying behind ISIS and will continue to do so. Seems to be kind of a theory of low expectations applied to the people of northern and central Iraq. No, I'm not talking about them welcoming us as heroes a la Cheney, but we cannot let that experience (we all watched us go into a war based on lies) force us into a showroom dummy tunnel vision about what we can and can't do, and what we should or should not presume, and what our special responsibilty is to Iraq in light of our unforgiveable decision to invade her in 2003.
by Bruce Levine on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 1:40pm
Seems to be kind of a theory of low expectations applied to the people of northern and central Iraq
Nod nod. When I see this coming from people who are wont to complain about imperialism towards the brown peoples, I always wonder if they see the ironies inherent in their position.
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 2:02pm
It also presumes that all those folks think alike. Kurds seem to be feeling good right now about the USA.
I kind of think in some ways folks do think alike, when it comes to staying alive.
by Bruce Levine on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 2:26pm
From August 13, before this happened:
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 2:34pm
Here's an op-ed to challenge your thinking in a different way, bslev:
I am reminded by reading it that Obama's foreign policy often leans this way, i.e., push others with more skin in the game to do the leading, and just assist. He gets criticism for it from Republicans and even from Hillary Clinton types.
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 2:26pm
Here's another alternate vision, coming from Obama's ambassador to Iraq from 2010-2012on Aug. 15, James B. Jeffries. He basically argues that the sooner "pinprick" interventions are done means the lesser involvement, and that a wait-and-see approach is what would doom us to "slippery slope" ala Vietnam etc."
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/08/15/iraq_obama_islamic_stat...
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 2:48pm
Jeffries can stuff it. Let the Arabs deal with their own renegades and murderers. The US 'protect' Turkey?
Turkey can defend itself. Perhaps if their blustering Islamist leader spent less time sending phony 'relief ships', and assailing Israel for responding to Hamas terrorists Turkey could deal with ending the Syrian war, and reducing the terrorist forces, just across it's own border.
Jeffries also manages to not even mention the great Muslim kingdom of Saudi Arabia. British royalty, Prince William, fought in Afghanistan, while Saudi princes are more likely to be found on the French Riviera, or driving about Europe with suitcases full of cash, like the one robbed near Paris this week of 300,000 euros. The Saudi's seem to love sending money to these terrorists, for once they should face the consequences when the terrorists threaten them.
by NCD on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 4:26pm
This is really off-thread but I really like the point you make contrasting British and Saudi royalty, it's just a useful comparison for thought provocation.
Leaving aside judgments and debates along the lines of "what are they good for" and dinosaurs yadda yadda, just looking at it analytically. In Western societies and Japan, the royals that are left have become servants of their societies, generally used for P.R. purposes. Elsewhere, in like Thailand, for example, the P.R. message is still kind of crucial to hold the society together, not so much anymore in like Europe and Japan, where the P.R. message is mostly about cultural pride and related tourism business, etc.
In the Gulf States, though, it's no change from the days of yore elsewhere. They don't serve, they rule and they just take. It's really pretty outrageous in some cases like your example. Lazy ass do nothing gets everything because of his birthright. And criticism from official circles elsewhere is rare. Because, in one word: OIL Ok, another word: CASH paid to the luxury goods market in the west.
I saw the initial stories about the robbery and was amazed that his name was not being released, that they had the power to do that to the media. Now that I know who it is I am even more amazed. The story in itself is fascinating because in one report I read about it, there is a gang or gangs targeting these guys in a very professional way and getting inside info. somehow. And they expect the western law enforcement to give them special protection? Well, it makes for good movie scripts for westerners, I guess.
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 5:47pm
On the "sending money" issue.
I just ran across this Reuters piece from Monday
Saudi envoy backs UN push against IS militants
which says the Security Council adopted a resolution last Friday adding names to a funders list and they include two Kuwaitis and two Saudis.
Interested to find out what other names there are, I went to get the Security Council Resolution,
which is here, 7 pages in PDF, dated Aug. 15
and that says under item # 20
But I am disappointed as can't find "Annex I".
I figured out what they mean by "the committee" by going to the Security Council website's "subsidiary organs" page:
http://www.un.org/en/sc/subsidiary/
and clicking on the first link:
http://www.un.org/en/sc/ctc/
which turns out to be the website of the Anti-Terrorism Committee of the Security Council
But from there I am at a dead end because I have to go back to work.
It sure would be interesting to know who is on the list, if anyone else finds it, please post!
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 6:25pm
P.S. Suggest those interested take a gander at the resolution itself, it is not a general anti-terror thing, but very specific to Iraq and Syria, starting out, after reaffirming a list of previous resolutions, with this phrase
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 6:33pm
Do you mean the "Al-Qaida Sanctions List"?
http://www.un.org/sc/committees/1267AQList.htm
by barefooted on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 8:11pm
Seemed to me from the resolution that this would be a list specific to ISIS & Al Nusra, but maybe I'm wrong.
by artappraiser on Fri, 08/22/2014 - 12:57am
I'm talkin' Saudi boots on the ground.
Does IS have to be knocking down the doors of the Royal Harems for the Kingdom to get into the fight? More likely.......they would ask Allah to save them, and shortly after implore the US military to defile their holy ground, and save their bank accounts and way of life.
The UN thing is (quick read) to cut funding of IS from 4 Saudi's/Kuwait's who have been on a terror 'seize funds' list for years, and apparently the Kingdom is now worried enough take recognition of that fact.
by NCD on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 8:44pm
Donors apparently don't matter much as to the big picture:
from Deep Pockets, Dark Goals: How Will ISIS Keep Funding Terror?
By Robert Windrem, NBC News, Aug. 22
The article details the types of activities, basically summarized here:
Where wealthy Sunnis come in is paying kidnap ransoms, along with other wealthy families, and European governments.
After reading that, and also this other NBC piece on how there are a growing number of sympathizers in Europe, it's not a stretch to me to theorize that they might be involved in some of the robberies of wealthy Saudis in France.
by artappraiser on Fri, 08/22/2014 - 9:37pm
Thanks AA. I certainly agree with the writer that the Arab states need to do more. I'm just not sure it will happen. But very persuasive piece.
by Bruce Levine on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 2:52pm
Confirming Gulf states' increased weapons capabililty, I remember posting this in the news section--and it turned up easy using the site's Google search:
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 6:47pm
Empathy for fellow human beings and a wish to prevent their wrongful suffering and death is both natural to most and admirable where it exists. When death occurs in great numbers it is natural for empathy to lead to a sincere wish to help. I say that and whatever follows with absolutely no snark or disrespect intended.
History has already happened, it has already determined facts on the ground everywhere even if they are hard to see clearly, but the future is still in flux. Our country has tried for some time to solve problems with military intervention. It hasn’t worked that I can see.
When my son was in his early twenties and before 9-11, he decided to join the Marines. My entire extended family piled on in an attempt to dissuade him. My father who had spent a good deal of time in the Phillippeanes during WWII would have, I believe, joined in but had already passed. His mother obviously aware of his immaturity and wanting him to see it too, used many arguments but mostly asked him if he thought he would be willing to kill someone just because he was told that it was the right thing to do. His maternal grandfather who had spent a rough tour in Korea during that war probably was the one who talked him out of joining.
I am grateful beyond expression that my son did not join and somewhat shamed that I only pushed him to choose a different service that might confer the benefits of service but would likely not extract the price paid by so many. I tried to get him to join the coast Guard.Had he become a Marine he would have been around two years into a longer commitment when 9-11 “changed everything”. He would almost certainly have been held in for several deployments in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. Instead, he is now a very good family man sharing with his first generation Vietnamese/American wife in the raising of two very fine children, but his entire life would have probably turned differently than it has if he had joined. He would almost certainly be a different person today and I have no reason to believe he would have been a better one. He might be dead or crippled or just all fucked mentally up like so many.
It is inconceivable that going forward you or I will ever face a foreign enemy in a shoot or be shot situation. We are safe to express our wishes for things others would be forced to do. Though our thoughts expressed here will have zero affect on our nation’s policies, we are still advocating for one thing as opposed to another. That, I believe makes the following a fair question. Would you/could you, make the same choice if your son was one of the ones to carry it out? If your son whom you have described with the same pride I have in my son came to you with a decision to change the apparent arc of his current life and to join the Army or Marines as a rifleman so that he could go fight ISIS as you suggest it is our responsibility to do, [and with which I do not totally disagree] what would you advise him?
As for myself, If my son had joined after I had not wrestled him to the ground and performed a humanitarian intervention, then heaven might have forgiven me but I could never have forgiven myself had he come to harm.
Edited to correct a couple mistakes in construction.
by A Guy Called LULU on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 2:53pm
I would rather not make this about me lulu and what I would do if it were my son or daughters. I've raised 3 independent thinking kids, working on a fourth. If you think that's at issue in this debate I understand. You've seen things in war I've not and I respect that.
P.S. Just to add that I really appreciate your piece and it deserves more attention than I've given it. I'm on vacation now, and I'm about to be challenged by another member of my family big time if I don't quit looking at the computer. She's telling me something about a connection between vacation and relaxation or something. Hopefully later. Thanks Lulu.
by Bruce Levine on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 3:23pm
Sorry for the delay but allow me to just elaborate a bit on my initial response. First of all, I know lots of folks tend not to talk about their families and personal lives in the way I often do, and I respect and fully understand that. But I have to say there is something important about such personal references in the proper circumstances, and this I think is one of them. It sounds like you have a wonderful son, and a loving family, and have been blessed with two grandchildren. You are a lucky man and I am happy for you and I appreciate the added dimension to our somewhat long and rocky relationship (fwiw).
I don't know what I would do if one of my kids was going off to fight thousands of miles away, and candidly I often feel a bit sheepish about getting so personal on this front because when I was 18 I didn't give military service a passing thought. That was 1977, after Viet Nam, and after the draft, but I would be less than candid if I told you that nobody in my world was joining the service. In fact, like many small towns all over this country, many of my dearest friends chose the military in lieu of heading straight to college. Those were bad times economically, and the service was often one of few options for my classmates. So it wasn't like the military option wasn't there for me; I just never considered it.
Anyway, the point of all this is that I have never been able to comfortably respond to questions relating to my own lack of service and by extension to the respective decisions of my own kids to head on to college. But I guess in the end I just cannot ignore questions relating to the use of the military overseas because I think about these things, and the military dimension just doesn't go away. I know you think about these things too, and I know you have seen things up close and way too personal when you were a young man in Viet Nam, and once again I really do honor and respect that part of your life in a number of ways such that it gives you special standing among us to opine on matters of war and peace.
In any event, once again I don't know how I would respond if one of my kids was going overseas, but I have seen what it does to parents in those situations. My principal client's kid was over in Fallujah for that offensive and did two separate tours in Iraq. It was literally killing him on a daily basis; I remember him saying that he just wanted him home so he could smell him (this being said by a 6'4" tough-guy Teamster about his 20 something son in the Marines). I don't think I would do half as well in a similar circumstance.
I'm not sure that fully responds to your heart-felt comment, but please understand that I am trying to be as open and honest with you as I can be. I don't like to see people die.
Bruce
by Bruce Levine on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 9:18pm
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I know that it might sometimes be unfair to ask a question of that nature to you or anyone, it can be like the question put to Dukakis about the death penalty if his wife was a victim. Some decisions must be made from a personal psychological remove and that is impossible when kin are directly at stake, but it does zero in on a point that I wish everyone considered. At least that is the intent.
There is not much more to say now without going afield a bit but I will say that I was trying to put you on the spot with my question becauseit happened to be you who presented the opportunity and because military intervention as a cure-all, often for invented problems, is a sore spot with me, as it should be for all, IMO, and is aggravated by all the bad reasons for interventions sold with lies as high-minded benevolent and heroic duty. So, I am likely to be less than diplomatic even when I can see, if I slow down a bit, that I am addressing someone with honest motives. Of coarse I do not always agree with other’s motives or with their chosen solutions just because I believe them to be honest, but those are the ones worth debating while I try [as a rather pointless hobby, I think, momentum of pig headed-ness being stronger than what uncommon common sense adopted by any one national side, but displayed by none, could possibly stand against] to present what I believe to be better ideas, or at least ideas worth considering.
I am off next week to watch my grandson play in a baseball tournament. He made his Little League All-Star Team and is now competing in Travel Ball on a ten and eleven year old team that usually plays up in eleven and twelve year old tournaments and usually wins. What fun.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 08/22/2014 - 10:29pm
Savor every minute with the little guy lulu. It really doesn't get any better than that. You must be so very proud. Good for you, and him.
And put me on the spot anytime in a spirit of good faith.
by Bruce Levine on Fri, 08/22/2014 - 10:37pm
David Ignatius, Washington Post columnist and intelligence expert, defends the president's gradual approach thus far in combating ISIS, and predicts that ISIS will ultimately fail as, he says, Osama bin Laden knew he had failed in the months before his death.
by Bruce Levine on Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:35pm
I thought of posting this, too, I like some of the points he makes.
Obviously one of them is that he agrees with me about the counter-productivity thing, and points out that Bin Laden eventually did, too. To have staying power, a movement has to win some genuine hearts and minds, even if it's a small, passionate group. Jihadi cool targeted to adolescent male frustration is not a lasting thing, it's really just another version of using youth for "cannon fodder." The cannon fodder thing, that's what's been proven to have happened with so many young suicide bombers as well.
And guess what, that segues a little into what you and Lulu are getting at with young folks joining up out of temporary passions or needs. I'm turned off by all sides doing that, always have been. As a proud feminist, I am extra turned off by it: the more young male hormonal excess is manipulated by elders to their own ends, the less I like it. It's hard for me to find respect anyone who signs up for military duty out of some passionate beliefs about one thing or another or something that happened. If you've got those kind of beliefs, whether you hate what those Yankees or Indians did to your kin or the Kaiser did to France, work for them in another way, not by volunteering to be an instrument of war. Soldiering should be professional, just like policing should be professional. Throwing in youthful passion is doom for us all, the best drill sergeants beat it out of them.
by artappraiser on Fri, 08/22/2014 - 1:34am
"Winning the hearts and minds" is a Western Occupying Army pacification PSYOPs tactic that relies on bribes and punishment to try to subdue a resisting population.
The Islamic State is a local, Arab, Muslim, liberation force who would not exist without a large local support base.
Western pundits are trying desperately to disarm this growing revolution with wishful thinking and Paternalistic quotes from Tamed and Integrated Western Muslims which will surely correct the thinking of these " frustrated adolescents", nothing makes young warriors with guns more docile than being talked down to.
by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 08/23/2014 - 12:29pm
Looks to me like the only reason they could claim a "local support base," if that's what you want to call it, is because everybody else in the locality runs away. Time and again; noted back on Aug. 7.
Got any pictures of them being greeted with flowers and sweets? I am highly reminded of Kanan Makiya reading your cheerleading.
by artappraiser on Sat, 08/23/2014 - 7:58pm
Making grossly exaggerated claims about refugees reflects poorly on your sources, Art. There is a war going on and there will be many people displaced, with an estimated 150,000 people fleeing Mosul, that left 1.65 Million people remaining under the Islamic State. Mosul would never have been conquered by less than a thousand IS fighters without a large number of local supporters. An Iraqi Army source I read estimated there were 5 Million supporters of the IS in Iraq alone.
I don't think that searching for real facts and truth about this historic conflict is "cheerleading" although I do believe that this path is the only way the people of the Muslim World will ever cast off Western domination and be free to create their own future.
Women's struggle for rights and respect will not end with the creation of the Caliphate in the ME or the West and I'm sure there will be many Muslim women supporters of the IS who will lead that struggle.
by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 7:26pm
The future ISIS is creating is bad, and except maybe for the Sunni Arabs(twenty percent of the population), Iraqis don't want it. If female supporters of ISIS struggle for women's rights, they will be struggling against ISIS, which will kill them or jail them.
by Aaron Carine on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 8:40pm
Sunni Muslims in Iraq may 'support ISIS' because Iraqi government/Iranian backed Shiite militias are killing Sunni's by the job lot (like a couple day ago after prayers) and ISIS is killing Shiite, Christian and Yadizis, not Sunni's.
More a prospect for perpetual war than some blossoming of 'freedom from Western domination'.
This 'Peter logic' on the folks staying in Mosul, is like saying 39 million French in 1942 supported Nazi occupation because they didn't flee Vichy France.
by NCD on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 9:52pm
I made no assumptions about the people who stayed in Mosul from the numbers, I simply was countering Art's claim that everyone was fleeing from the Islamic State. I did use logic to deduce that the IS must have had a large support base in Mosul to have been able to take the city and this is true throughout much of the area they have conquered, i.e. Falluja.
The Shia leadership in Iraq had ten years to build a shared government but they choose to follow the lead of Iran and punish the Sunni population, they are about to pay a heavy price for that arrogance.
The Islamic State is fighting anyone who opposes them with arms including Sunnis. Sunnis make up about 85% of Muslims worldwide and the Caliphate recognizes no petty nationalist borders. The IS is not fighting Christians or "Yadizis" they are fighting Sunni Peshmerga who abandoned the Yazidis when they were overrun and the Shia military and militias.
The US is the master of "Perpetual War" and if this war is perpetual it will be the US who maintains it.
by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 11:08pm
That ISIS conquered Mosul is not evidence that ISIS has a large support base in that city. Lebanese Christians overran Karantina and Tell al Zaatar and massacred the inhabitants, does that mean the Phalangists had a large support base in those places?
ISIS is trying to impose minority rule and theocratic tyranny on Iraq; your support for this is repellent.
by Aaron Carine on Mon, 08/25/2014 - 8:08am
The small Lebanese battles you use for comparison will be forgotten while the rout of the Iraqi Army at Mosul will be studied at War Colleges for generations.
Iraq will cease to exist as a Western creation in the Caliphate so your sectarian view is too narrow and biased.
I will not pass judgment on your inherent exceptionalism because I have suffered from the same conditioning to worship nationalism and our hegemony as a " Natural" desired condition.
by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 08/25/2014 - 11:23am
I don't see how a failure to endorse ISIS rule over Iraq means worshiping nationalism or hegemony. What is good about replacing Iraq with a medievalist Sunni caliphate?
Perhaps the small battles in Lebanon are not comparable to the battle for Mosul. Perhaps we should ask if the capture of Aachen and Berlin in 1945 are evidence of popular support for the Americans and Soviets among Germans.
by Aaron Carine on Mon, 08/25/2014 - 1:00pm
I think the battle of Thermopylae might be more comparable to the battle of Mosul, inverted of course.
Your view of the Islamic State as medieval says more about your conditioning than their aspirations, they sure have embraced modern technology and PR. If they look to any era for inspiration that era would reflect the height of Islamic power and civilization while Europeans lived in ignorance and squalor.
I have never suggested anyone endorse the IS, I have only tried to clear away the BS, lies and propaganda that help no one to understand this historic movement in the ME. Iraq nor Syria are being replaced, they are being incorporated back into the Caliphate to destroy the Western imposed divisions that have been used to divide and rule the ME.
by Peter (not verified) on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:46pm
How many Arabs do you think want to be "incorporated back into the Caliphate"? Do you even care about their wishes?
During the "height of Islamic power and civilization" there was despotism, religious and gender bigotry, and a brutal penal code. These are the values ISIS wants to impose on people.
You are not clearing away BS, you are shoveling BS.
by Aaron Carine on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 6:09pm
Recent events would seem to indicate large numbers of supporters in Syria and Iraq but the only estimate I have seen claims 5 Million supporters in Iraq which may be enough as it seems support is growing around the world.
The Islamic State is now recruiting in Ferguson MO offering converts full protection and equal rights under Sharia Law regardless of race, something these citizens have never and will never be afforded under democracy. We may soon be seeing the black flag of Jihad waving over our own Gazas.
by Peter (not verified) on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:39pm
Well isn't that nice of them offering all converts to Salafist Sunni Islam in Ferguson equal rights! And what do people of all colors of other creeds get? Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds to even use the term "equal rights" in such a context? puhleez this is even over the top for you.
Edit to add: It occurs to me I might guess the answer to my own question! What they get is to be chased out of their homes and across the Mississippi River into Illinois! In the good ole time spirit of "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!" No infidels in St. Louis County! Cleansed! Might take a
beheadinglynching or two, but eventually they'll get it cleansed. Makes it easy, no mixing, no need for separate water fountains!by artappraiser on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 2:31am
I know it may be hard for you to understand but under the Caliphate and Sharia Law there is no institutional racism, unlike our democracy and judicial system where it is ingrained and perpetual.
Your reaction to this hypothetical conversion, of the people of Ferguson, sounds like a rant from the front page of Storm Front, should we consider Humanitarian Bombing to save the Infidels or perhaps we should send in the White Xtian Death Squads.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 2:26pm
One should be weary of all who are certain that they hear the true word of God or Allah. We have seen Somali Muslims slaughter Kenyan Christians
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 3:55pm
Yup, you can't find racism anywhere in a Muslim country
except...............
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/28/egypt-newspaper-racist-n-word-c...
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 3:56pm
I would hope that you can comprehend the difference between individual racism and "Institutional Racism", RM. The latter is an integral part of our "System" and affects even the non-racist individual.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 7:39pm
See below
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 7:55pm
Reply downthread.
by artappraiser on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 11:16pm
I would like to alter my "cannon fodder" terminology. It should be "sicko young male violence junkies from around the world used as fodder." Anthony Burgess would no doubt think this a little too over the top to be believable; even Quentin Tarantino might think it too much::
It doesn't matter if what the braggart says is true or not, it matters that he would brag about the high. The greatest gives you "divine" strength to get high on blood and guts with your homies. What ever happened to that Allah the all merciful and most merciful guy? I thought the greeting he inspired was peace be unto you not fear and loathing of be unto you?
by artappraiser on Wed, 09/17/2014 - 5:13am
by artappraiser on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 3:41pm
by artappraiser on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 3:46pm
Response to Peter from above
here is an article from Al Jazeera on institutional racism in Egypt. It is likely that new Black recruits will be cannon-fodder for Islamists.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/07/201371817106275826.html
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 7:59pm
You do understand that Egypt is a secular Western style military dictatorship masquerading as a democracy. When it is incorporated into the Caliphate, Sharia Law will replace any of the institutions that are racist.
Cannon-fodder usually refers to conscripts wasted on a losing cause while volunteers make a Conquering Army.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 10:21pm
...support is growing around the world... -"Peter" upthread
by artappraiser on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 1:59am
More:
by artappraiser on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 2:04am
Where you see reasoned opposition to the Islamic State I see panicked purveyors of the status quo, frightened talking heads and so called "Leaders" who will say and eventually do almost anything to save their heads. When these pundits do stoop to talk to people in the streets of the ME you get a much different perspective on the attitudes about life and the future of the ME.
These fools still think they can tell the people of the world what they want or should have but that dominance is a rapidly fading illusion. The Ruling Class of the ME is facing their battle of Armageddon but the US and the Western Powers may create a true Apocalypse.
by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 12:56pm
It seems you want to replace one group of tyrants with another group of tyrants. Those who disagree with ISIS face death. Wow that's a great improvement.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 2:16pm
It seems you want Washington or Brussels to make these decisions for the People of the ME, when you parrot Western propaganda. The West has no concern for the people of the ME only our mercantile interests and control.
If you want to talk about death just revisit our last dance of the death cult in Iraq where we dispatched hundreds of thousands of innocents to their bloody doom.
by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 3:15pm
That does not address my point. Why would. I support any movement that would kill me because of my faith?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 9:29pm
Zeid Ra'ad Al Hussein, the new United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights at the Human Rights Council 27th Session on Sept. 8:
by artappraiser on Mon, 09/08/2014 - 9:10pm