MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Kavanaugh Hearing Thread
By artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 8:46am |Kavanaugh, Ford testify: What to watch for
By Alexander Bolton @ TheHill.com - 09/26/18 08:14 PM EDT
URL:
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/408665-kavanaugh-ford-testify-what-to-watch-for
- 36100 reads
Comments
Ford's prepared statement has been released:
If you don't have NYT access, you should be able to find it elsewhere.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 9:36am
Raise your hand anyone who believes Kav himself wrote that"search and destroy" speech
And then sat down and wrote "Hamilton". And King Lear.
by Flavius on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:25pm
Overall, to me, he didn't sound that literate, actually sounded more like a frat boy than a judge, and one that skipped a lot of lit classes
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:35am
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 9:41am
Spot on, I think, on why we are doing this: "culture of privilege"
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 9:49am
All of this has been an update for me on current preppie world, I've been remiss about keeping up; apparently the Brett's have now replaced the Chip's:
Edit to add: got me thinking about how he might get along personally with the other current members of the Supreme Court: not very well. Maybe I am imagining things but I can't think of a single one of them except perhaps John Roberts that would like him. It's like this: oh geez, this grinning poseur political hack bursting into our little club, looking for approval. Even Clarence likes to play a scholarly intellectual.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 2:08am
I never quite realized we need to keep up wth the prep world.
The closest I got was Pork's I-III and Weekend at Bernie's. Who would need more?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 5:00am
I had this very conversation last night. Assuming he's admitted to the club, what will the other members think of him? How much will each consider his considerations? Will they think of him as a blight?
by barefooted on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 8:43pm
It seems he's a belligerent and aggressive drunk. I bet his wife could tell us about that if she were honest. His sexual entitlement and abuse seems to only occur when his inhibitions are lowered and his true nature reveals itself. He seems to be respectful and collegial in work environments. I don't see him having trouble working with the other justices. For the other justices they are thrust together for life and have to find some way to work together. I'm sure they will keep their personal opinions out of the legal discussions. All the justices want to have as many sign on as possible. That's an incentive to keep personal matters totally out of the court and just try to make as convincing legal arguments as possible
by ocean-kat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:34pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 10:01am
I agree this was bad procedure. "Prosecutor" asked her if there were any corrections to her letter, she read it carefully while everyone was silent, said their were three points she wanted to clarify, and Grassley cut it off at two points to move on to Feinstein and the third one didn't get made:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:14am
It is so hard to find good female assistants these days.
by moat on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:18am
you bad
I thought Durbin's questions/comments right now before break were excellent (obviously prepared by male legal assistant?
) I can see now what's going to happen. She's enormously credible. The "seering laughter" part of her story is what gets the assaulting personality thing across, so much better than in writing, it's like a scene from a move about Auchwitz, for chrissake. The only thing Kavanaugh can do now to try to keep credibility--even if he is appointed, he will have a credibility problem forever now--is to claim it was someone else, not him. And she just answered Durbin that she is 100% sure it was Kavanaugh.
I really don't need to watch more, can read about it later.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:30am
I am heading for the locker rooms myself to take a shower.
I am coated with something.
by moat on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:54am
Pretty sure today's one day no one will ask to join you.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 12:12pm
Grassley used to have a rep as a competent senator. Not sure just when that changed. But it's changed now, that much seems clear.
by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 1:17pm
Well, The Whip just now is basically questioning the Grassley competence:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 1:48pm
P.S. Sen. Ron Johnson too.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 2:03pm
more from The Whip:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 2:42pm
This Anita Hill 2.0. Hopefully, the country has moved on and believes the woman this time Grassley and Hatch were present at the Anita Hill hearings. Neither man has changed his approach to the situation. As William F. Buckley said Conservatives sit athwart history and yell “Stop”. Grassley and Hatch are stuck in the past.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 12:50pm
Conservative family values as expressed by someone not in office and not running:
Graham is obviously digging in his heels:
The Greatest Generation problem; I could see my father saying this:
And Maggie on Trump the TV watcher:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 1:12pm
Excellent point on Graham:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 2:46pm
the Graham pics, which I found retweeted by C-Span's Steve Scully without comment (rigorously non-partisan), hope Graham sees them:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 7:17pm
some think Graham wanted to look like that:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 7:30pm
With pesky work thing haven't been able to watch it other than a few video images. From that and from a little snooping around on the net, it sure sounds as though Ford is going to be widely viewed as credible by anyone whose mind was not made up against her going in.
Let's see if clueless and craven GOP pols put 2+2 together and bail on Kavanaugh way too late, rather than never. If either Trump withdraws the nomination or one or more of the GOP senators who might block it in any number of ways gives indications to McConnell and Grassley, that should at least hold up the vote. My very quick and unthorough read is that that would probably be fatal for the nomination. GOP running scared now as well they should be. They've f'd up, big, big time.
by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 1:35pm
They've f'd up, big, big time. Glad to have your input on that because I am intuiting the same and I know you are good at this stuff. One way or another, even if he is still confirmed, what they did, they are screwing themselves
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 1:39pm
Ezra Klein doesn't often use all caps:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 1:43pm
Graham whining about using the sexual misconduct card:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 1:45pm
Lindsay Graham seems to be competing with Rudy Giuliani to claim the Darth Vader award for the public figure who has most publicly jettisoned earlier traces of redeeming values.
by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 4:00pm
Ben Sasse, decent human being:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 1:53pm
just because I got a kick out of their facial expressions and it's my train:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 2:08pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 2:11pm
Everyone to the life rafts!
Women and children first!
by moat on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 2:20pm
your second sentence is what really makes this a top notch comment!
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 2:36pm
A captain's (Bush 41/McCain/Kasich strategist) three S.O.S. tweets:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 3:06pm
I think the old salt is right.
They should have asked Judge Judy to pilot the ship.
by moat on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 3:12pm
I see some chatter on Twitter from liberal media how Mitchell is so bad she must be purposely throwing it and is secretly sympathetic to Ford or from more legal types speculating she's pissed at Grassley's format ruining her style, but I think it's more likely this guy is correct:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 2:35pm
When Kavanaugh supported the truth and use of polygraphs:
Most notably in Sack v. U.S. Dept. of Defense, 823 F.3d 687 (2016), a case about FOIA fees, Judge Kavanaugh waxed philosophic about the value of polygraphs in making hiring decisions:
by NCD on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 2:49pm
Seeing lots of great comments
BTW, right now he's choking up....very angry to the state of tears...
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 3:25pm
It's not surprising that he's angry. For decades he's been a right wing party apparatchik without judicial or ethical restraint. Where's the partisan loyalty for that? Where's a similar level of unethical behavior he's exhibited over the years in his defense?
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 3:30pm
yes, well that's
thomas&/#39;s "high-tech lynching" statement was full of anger aimed at "the process," not Democrats, the left, or "friends of the Clintons." There's no precedent for a Supreme Court nominee to be this openly partisan, period. <a href=../_https_/t.co/aBMHE4CyvU__https_/t.co/aBMHE4CyvU_/a__/p_%26mdash%3b/index.html Matt Ford (@fordm) <a href=../_https_/twitter.com/fordm/status/1045395718830256134/index.html?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%22>September 27, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src=../_https_/platform.twitter.com/widgets/index.html charset="utf-8"></script>">the culture of privilege thing
upthread, is it not? And the "revenge of the Clintons" thing, that's him being hoist on his own petard. While Clinton was president, he was helping with going to dig up and revive Paula Jones suit about something Clinton may have done while he was a governor. If this is a Democratic plot,. there is little difference with this Ford case in that he is being hoist on his own petard or template.by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 4:14pm
There is the irony of intention but if this is truly a "calculated political hit", it could be investigated just like the one Kavanaugh participated in. Why is there not more confidence displayed in the truth coming to light?
In its stead, there are only apocalyptic pronouncements regarding the demise of the Republic as we know it.
Taking the G.O.P. at their own word, the deep state is kicking their private parts like some kind of chicken franchise set on fire by a meth manufacturer. And there is nothing they can do to defend themselves.
by moat on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 6:32pm
Kavanaugh said "revenge of the Clintons"?
If so, where is Richard, mega-karma schdenfrriutcake....
by NCD on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 3:49pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 3:29pm
In complaining so bitterly about the process and decrying the confirmation process as a "national disgrace", Kavanaugh proves beyond the shadow of a doubt he lacks the temperament to serve as a good judge on any court, let alone the Supreme Court.
Perhaps for the first time in his life he is facing real accountability for his actions.
by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 4:32pm
The Republicans wanted to rush this through because Kavanaugh was a train wreck waiting to happen.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 4:02pm
good comments from panel on MSNBC right now including Eugene Robinson pointing out how Kavanaugh is fighting for his life now, not just the job. Trying to salvage what he can of his reputation so he can continue to work at something. Saying he will not quit is part of that. Even if the nomination was withdrawn, that's the smart way for him to go. Heck If withdrawn, he can continue to work with wingnuts, because he hasn't admitted to doing anything wroing.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 4:18pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 8:03pm
Hopefully true, yet coming from former GWB speechwriter "axis of evil" Frum, though..means anything?...... he is out of the GOP loop at this point.
by NCD on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 8:11pm
The response to Feinstein regarding why Kavanaugh did not ask for an FBI investigation is the weakest moment in his testimony for me. He is simultaneously dodging the question and blaming it having to be asked on the Republicans.
Don't let the revolving door hit you on the way out.
by moat on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 5:04pm
If Republicans can elect Trump President, they can and will confirm Kavanaugh next week. Unfortunately. Hope I'm wrong.
Pushing him through will continue the job the GOP has been working on for 30 years, rotting out our institutions and destroying democracy, from the inside, with unlimited $$$$$ from their plutocrats, and loyalty from their theocracy seeking authoritarian loving base.
by NCD on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 5:21pm
NCD... try 53 years...
Your point is correct. However the war began in earnest right after Barry Goldwater and the party got their asses handed to them by LBJ who then put in motion the "Great Society" legislation and his "War on Poverty."
I was a senior in high school.
======
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 4:45am
Wow, I didn't know what this was, retweeted by Seth Abramson; looked it up, and found RAINN is the non-profit Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network and runs a National Sexual Assault Hotline:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 7:25pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 7:27pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 7:32pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 8:08pm
Maybe he is pitching for Trump to stick with him on the basis of similar penchants for disregard of facts. A confused, fact and truth-challenged SCOTUS nominee: right up Trump's alley.
by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 8:15pm
Too bad Trump doesn't have a vote on the matter.
by moat on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 8:21pm
Rachel Maddow just hammered this point. It eviscerates the GOP argument re the so-called political hit job. She was unable to save Grassley from himself.
by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 9:28pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 8:12pm
Jennifer Rubin saying same in a different way:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 8:50pm
Rubin also just published a column where she compares the treatment of Klobuchar with the alleged high school assault:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 9:07pm
This was white boys gone wild, putting women in their place. Kavanaugh was crying because he was challenged by a woman. The other thing we observed is that Kavanaugh is a partisan Republican who will be biased if he is selected to be on the Supreme Court.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 9:23pm
Clip of the Klobuchar question about blackout drinking:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:38pm
A.P. news item that will be published by many news outlets across the country; not labeled opinion.
By David Crary, 27 minutes ago, Kavanaugh-Ford hearing: A dramatic lesson on gender roles
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 9:15pm
WaPo:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 9:33pm
James Comey, John Dean
Preet Bharara tweeted quite a few short things and retweets of others; especially interesting among them, he addresses the lousy procedure and agrees that Mitchell was fighting it:
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 9:48pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 10:00pm
Rare side of Josh Marshall, who'd thunk he'd be the one to pick out this?
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 10:06pm
Jon Meacham on Lawrence O'Donnell's show: "What we saw today was a triumph of mindless tribalism over a search for the truth."
by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 10:54pm
thank you for that.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:33pm
Steve Schmidt knocking it out of the park on Brian Williams' show now.
by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:18pm
missed it except for the last comment on Graham, and sorry cause I like his analysis. but I see he's got a twitter feed where he put some comments in the afternoon, here's the last one
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:32pm
He just incinerated Lindsay Graham on Williams. His explanation: corrupted by ambition.
by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:35pm
The junior Senator from Alabama announces his vote (a Dem; Shelby, an R, is the senior)
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/27/2018 - 11:50pm
more from Senator Jones:
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:18am
This is major news:
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:16am
Kavanaugh did win the 2018 Jimmy Swaggart award for best white guy cry.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 8:46am
Michael Steele, former RNC Chair, on Williams last night, offered his take on the GOP senators' serial temper tantrums yesterday afternoon. He said Graham's remarks were the signal that for most of the GOP senators, this is a Hill they are willing, politically speaking, to die on.
Steele said he thought this was a "mistake", but that for Graham and like-minded colleagues, securing the SC majority they seek is worth the risk of individual senators losing their seats and the party losing its congressional majorities for an election cycle or two.
[I am here elaborating on the GOP thought process here to fill in some of the blanks on this. If they are out of power in the Senate, the thinking goes, they will still be able to block progressive initiatives. And things will swing back and they will come back into power not too far down the road. There is by no means any assurance they will actually lose one or both chambers in Congress this or the next election cycle. They are at the moment, for example, seeking to buy maintenance of their House majority, and may succeed. Nor is it by any means clear that voting Kavanaugh down would improve their chances of holding seats and their majorities. To the contrary, if they don't ram him through, their funders and much of their base will abandon them or turn against them. So by this line of thinking it's basically a no-brainer, even though the cost for individuals and short-term costs for the party may be high, they realize.
By contrast, they believe the SC majority will at minimum block any progressive, majority-supported policies they are unable to block in legislatures, in federal and state executive branches through vetoes, and in referenda or ballot initiatives in a number of states. Hopefully, from their perspective, SCOTUS over time will roll back such progressive policies and programs as are presently in place.]
So that is the political calculation on Steele's read, that Graham's histrionics revealed.
For this group of senators, judicial temperament, integrity, character, some element of impartiality by our highest court, the institutional credibility the Senate and the SC have with the public, and certainly not the truth of the allegations, for these are mere distractions from the once-in-a century political and policy goal that is within their grasp--all of these considerations are literally irrelevant. The sole relevant factor is how they believe Kavanaugh will vote on the court if confirmed, and the policy results they believe that will lead to.
Here's the thing, though: the number of GOP senators who clearly have this mindset is not quite enough to enable them to realize their objective.
Flake, Collins, Murkowski, and Manchin on the D side are said to have been conferring through back channels last night, exploring ways they might work as a group to reduce the extreme discomfort they all feel now fearing that they may individually be The Decider.
Most likely they will determine the outcome.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:11am
This is about Trump or Russia, not the base. They could have gone with any number of staunch wingnuts and the confirmation would have passed in a day. They chose to ram through a weirdo long-term foot soldier, even with more conservative picks available. But Kavanaugh would kill the out for no state-level pardons, and prevent a sitting president from bein indicted. And the party's still beholden to Trump - why exactly?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:26am
Agree that it's about that as well, but I believe it is about more than that and also has to do with deep, longstanding irreconcilable divisions over the role of government and visions of our society. The SCOTUS majority goal long pre-dated Trump and Russia. For McConnell among many others it's been a longstanding singular focus.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:34am
TPM is reporting Flake will fall in line.
Kav is a done deal, anyone who understands Republicans would not be surprised. They are out to enshrine their plutocrat supporters with the backstop of the SCOTUS, while playing to their theocracy seeking, authoritarian loving racist Base. Without that Base and that campaign cash, they have no power.
The GOP would confirm him even if he failed polygraphs, even if the FBI investigated and found some likelihood he did what was reported by Ford.
by NCD on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:47am
I'd eat my hat if they didn't confirm Kavanaugh. And while to my mind that's been a foregone conclusion, the Democrats can be faulted for not adapting to the R's change in strategy after Durbin.
Kavanaugh should have been set up for the question of submitting his calendar for forensics testing.
No one picked up on the distinction, regarding the party's so called deniers, between "refuted" and "couldn't remember". Big difference.
He should have been grilled on judicial temperament.
And it should have been suggested that crying is often the remorseful episode of a serial abuser before he re-offends.
by Oxy Mora on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 10:31am
So marvelous to see you piping up here with more than two cents, Oxy. That is all.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 10:45am
Hey, Arta. Thanks. Nice Thread. Good to see you posting.
by Oxy Mora on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 1:14pm
Tear us up, OM, we need change. Pixies are gone, Surfer Rosa no more. Change.
Tby PeraclesPlease on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 1:24pm
Well, there you are. Where ya been?
by barefooted on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:38pm
Flake just got up and went outside with someone sitting near Grassley. He appeared to be in excruciating pain prior to that. Is his conscience kicking in?
by CVille Dem on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:18pm
C'Ville, they just showed why about Flake on CNN, it was about two women protesters confronting him!!! While he was on the elevator one was right in front of the door and screaming at him this very heartfelt pain about putting someone who doesn't take sexual abuse seriously in power. He didn't close the door on her, he listened for like a minute, with his head down. She was near hysterical, and berating him like an angry mom, and he just took it like a kid being yelled at by his mom. They had a tape of it and the reporter said that is what upset him, that right after that he kept his head down and went in and out of the hearing like she really affected him, like he was really upset and having second thoughts.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 1:16pm
CNN is saying the current break is clearly about discussions with Flake. The "perimeter of the discussion" about delaying the vote for a short FBI investigation. Flake and the others have just come back in.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 1:41pm
Drama over, Laura Rozen is a fast typist, new deal:
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 1:51pm
They started a roll, but it's a little confusing for them on what they are voting on and they are discussing that. They are coming to the conclusion that McConnell and Schumer will have the power to do this one-week FBI investigation, not them. It is allowing Flake to vote his conscience, but not an amendment. Flake says it is an effort to help the country come together.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 1:55pm
New drama! Grassley just adjourned without finishing discussions! Said "two hour rule". Until they turned the microphones off, you could hear Feinstein and Grassley arguing on CNN. First she said: What?! A real mess Before Grassley abruptly adjourned, Flake did say the president would have to okay an FBI investigation, they would have to ask him to. He's withholding his final vote on that condition.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 2:02pm
This is correct I believe after just hearing Graham talk to reporters. Graham was calm and sounded like he's okay with Flake requesting this, but he's not sure how it's going to get done. He's going to meet with Flake and McConnell about how to do it if possible. I am mad with Jeff? No....this is democracy...
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 2:07pm
Another stumbling block is the stumbler in chief, who has to order the investigation if requested to do so.
by moat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 2:20pm
CNN White House reporter a few minutes ago said they asked him at the press conference with the Prez. of Chile and Trump was incredibly restrained and Trump said he only knew what they were telling him, he also said it's basically up to the Senate, whatever they want to do is fine with him. The partial clip they then played I saw him say that sure, he of course is still 100% behind Kavanaugh, and then that he has to watch the video of the committee meeting to know what is going on for sure, and maybe he and the Prez of Chile will watch it together, and he looked at him and said "okay?" And he nodded okay.
Basically you could translate this as: SOMEBODY PUT DOWNERS IN HIS MORNING COKE OR IT WAS AN IMPOSTOR
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 2:52pm
Maybe he doesn't realize that he could be asked to open an investigation through the FBI on one of his homeboys.
That could harsh his mellow.
by moat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 3:00pm
The CNN video of the protestor who influenced Flake in front of the elevator is here, currently it won't load far enough for me to get the embed code. I think that's because it probably has too many looking at it:
Tearful woman confronts Sen. Flake on elevator
If you didn't see it I think it's worth coming back to later for a watch.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 2:16pm
Wow.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 2:34pm
While on CNN they show interviews of Senators in the hall about what the Flake drama means, and have a reporter outside McConnell's office seeing who's going in and out, here's some comments from the peanut gallery on my twitter feed:
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 2:29pm
Republicans are trying to push this through as quickly as possible. It could have been an orderly process. Documents could have been released. The FBI could have interviewed witnesses. There's likely no proof and witness's credibility could have been impugned. In the end they could have voted for Kavanaugh with less of the rancor we have now. But they didn't want to wait.
That means one of two possibilities. They're afraid of losing the senate and democrats refusing to consider any Trump nominee for the next two years. Just following the precedent of Garland. Or they know or suspect that the documents and the sexual assault investigations would find significant information to derail the nomination. Everything I've read by pundits, no matter their partisan affiliation, looking at the electoral landscape and the polls makes it very unlikely democrats will take the senate. So it's likely they know Kavanaugh is tainted and doesn't merit a seat on the Supreme Court but they're pushing him through anyway. That's who the republicans are.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 2:57pm
Murkowski and Manchin joined Flake's call for a delay, WaPo reporting. No word from Collins yet.
But the three requesting a delay do, unlike Flake if he had been by himself, have real leverage. If all Dems hold, Murkowski and Flake voting no would defeat the nomination 51-49. Unless and until McConnell know they have the votes they are not going to bring the nomination to the Senate floor.
By requesting the delay, Flake, Murkowski and Manchin are signaling loud and clear that no one should be surprised if, absent the FBI investigation, they vote no. From the article up on their website now:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/senate-committee-prepares-to-vo...
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 3:28pm
WAPO, 3:52 EST:
No details yet. We'll see what this turns out to mean.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 4:00pm
updated:
3:59 WaPo. Same dogged and perhaps beyond exhausted reporters, Seung Min Kim and John Wagner. I also saw a WaPo flash saying Mark Judge has agreed to talk to the FBI.
ETA corrected spelling of Seung Min Kim's name.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 4:12pm
So Trump orders the FBI, that arm of the liberal deep state conspiracy, to investigate the sexual abuse charges as requested by Flake, Manchin, and Murkowski and then Senate leaders. He had no viable alternative under the circumstances. But still. How interesting.
There may be a wee bit in the way of attempts to scrutinize matters such as who within the Bureau does the investigation; who makes that decision; what is known or can be discovered about the history of the agents doing this followup on sex crime allegations; what latitude and resources the agents are permitted both formally and in practice to pursue a vigorous investigation including any and all leads that emerge; what information on who was contacted, what was asked and what were the responses the public will have access to, and when; etc. A zillion questions. Inquiring minds will want to know.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 5:48pm
Since the POTUS is not a subject of the investigation, maybe he will hang back and file his nails while the FBI drags the lake. By now, he must be inured to seeing his associates going under.
He can always say how sad it is when they disappear from view.
by moat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 7:02pm
Oh no, the Qanon people will show how it is connected to Trump, they are really just going to have to get down to some real gritty detail work now! No more sloppy conjecture, but major spiderweb charts. Maybe liason with Incels for extra help.
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 1:04am
Oh nooo, Flake & Coons couldn't reach Wray, so they called Rosenstein!!! Qanon material fer sure!
from NYTimes by Michael D. Shear, Nicholas Fandos & Michael S. Schmidt, A Tumultuous 24 Hours: How Jeff Flake Delayed a Vote on Kavanaugh
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 2:33am
MSNBC, on either O'Donnell or Williams I believe, reported last night that Rosenstein (paraphrasing from memory) said that with one week they could, in fact, produce useful information.
by AmericanDreamer on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 11:01am
Note the above NYTimes article has White House anonymice describing Trump's reaction to Ford's testimony which totally explains his behavior! whether one wants to believe it or not, up to the reader of course:
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 9:24am
Kavanaugh could only have been worse with a line if shots and a bong. That calendar, oops...
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 9:42am
When I commented the other day that Kavanaugh presented himself Thursday afternoon after a judge nominee after Trump's own heart I wasn't considering what seems to be a very real possibility that Trump indeed was, if not Kavanaugh's audience of one that afternoon, at the top of the list. To get Trump's support on anything we all know that you have to make him see himself, easily, in you. Because everything, as we all also know, is about him.
by AmericanDreamer on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 11:13am
I really don't agree with you on that, Peracles. For example, I've read quite a few times from Hill reporters that McConnell would have preferred one of the other guys on the short list because he knew Kavanaugh had issues. They care about the Supreme Court being conservative. They don't give a shit about Trump, he has put them in a bind and divided their party. They know they may lose control of Congress. And they also know that is partly because Trump has taken control over many of their voters.
They are rushing because they know they might lose control. The wanted someone who would sail through like Gorsuch in case they lost power. The thorn-in-the-side Trump sidled them with the worst pick of the bunch because the worst pick was the one that might protect Trump.
If they were sure they were going to retain control they might have been tougher on Kavanaugh so they could get a more respected conservative pick. But they can't because: Trump' s popularity with an important part of their base. That is what I think is going on. It is actually shocking to me that some are so ideological about making the Supreme Court conservative that they would be suicidal about it. The easy way out if they weren't afraid of Trump voters and unsure of keeping control would be to court female votes by turning him down for another conservative.
I think it very much behooves to keep in mind that most of the establishment GOP loathes Trump and didn't want him as their president. They know he could care less about the GOP. But they can't go against him on most things because his base is a crucial part of their coalition. The devil's bargain they made when they chose the Southern strategy and then amped it up during Gingrich and Tea Party years is the problem.
They are not for the most part Deep Staters. They are pro-Mueller and pro-Comey and anti-Hillary and anti-Pelosi and secretly anti-Trump. Mueller himself is a Republican. Probably conservative, too.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 10:17am
p.s. Interesting what I just found from July by googling Bannon and Kavanaugh
A side note: look at the comments there, she really took shit for tweeting this, from both left and right. I really hate that shit back from the early blogosphere years, where when the reporters with a good intuition about what is really going on share something they think means something but they ain't exactly sure yet, they get bashed for it by the ideologues because the ideologues think everyone must be like them and have an agenda in everything they report beyond understanding what is going on.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 10:29am
Look at never-Trumper Bill Kristol's thinking for a better understanding of how originalism is one of the few unifying ideological things for the GOP. He is torn, these are his last 3 tweets right now, and he is also thinking about what kind of coalitions can make up a GOP now with the NH stats:
at the same time, 2 hrs. ago he
this is the head of the american conservative union, whose spouse is a senior staffer in the trump white house, making what surely seems to be a straight-up appeal to bigotry. https://t.co/6YyZ0UPeOm
— Bill Kristol (@BillKristol) tweeted this one, calling out the American Conservative Union and the White House for making racist dog whistles with a photo from the hearings, which I posted with image downthread, with Fukuyama's comment and retweet. It really is about conservative principles for many of this guys. And Trump has zero principles.by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 10:44am
One quibble on this: I doubt that GOP senators think of what they are doing as politically suicidal. High risk, yes. But they knew they were in a dicey political situation as is because of Trump, the typical loss of seats for the in party in mid-term elections, and the deep unpopularity of their agenda which some of their constituents who voted for them--helpfully for their purposes and engineered over decades--remain ignorant of. (Many of them like the sound of small government. But if and when that comes to pass, few of them will be happy about what that turns out to look like in practice. Decades-long lying about what the government does by the GOP and its right-wing, anti government allies has left many with badly skewed and factually incorrect perceptions.)
All their already high-risk options became higher risk when Kavanaugh became the nominee.
But they have won so many elections they had no business winning that they see no reason to concede that they are electoral toast. No matter what transpires. Their confidence in their ability to create the alternative reality--and also the realities resulting from gerrymandering, voter suppression, and Russian interference on their behalf--they need to gain and hold power is vast.
Theoretically, individual GOP senators could decide to distance themselves from their base and move towards the center. But I think many of them are a lot more terrified of doing that than they are of doing what they need to do to keep their base. For them that would be a giant leap into the unknown and they have no idea whether or how they could win elections with a different coalition shifted somewhat towards the center. So they are committed to doing what they need to do to hold their base. But their base's expectations and demands have been shifting in increasingly extreme directions in recent decades, and now more so by Trump. (I'm oversimplifying. The dynamics vary by state, as well as due to other factors.)
Another quibble: They can't afford to not give a shit about Trump's fortunes. Because even if many of them despise him and view him as bad for the party, if he goes down, many of them are at risk of going down as well. Such is the cult status Trump occupies among many GOP voters now.
If Pence were to become president he would never generate the allegiance Trump does. He just doesn't have the personality for it. Pence can't do the act Trump does. But that is the act necessary to have a chance at producing a GOP win in a presidential election at this point. They have to polarize and get a higher proportion of their ordinary folks potential voter pool furious and eager to flip off the liberals they've been prompted and helped to hate. That is both the negative and the positive motivation for them to vote.
It is hazardous for them to be with Trump, in many states. But near-term it is also hazardous for them to be without him. That is one of their quandaries.
Kasich, Rubio, and Romney and Jeb think, or thought, they could win while rhetorically and symbolically moving away from the extremists in the party. Well, that didn't work in 2016. If anything, the Trump-supporting GOP crowd may have become even more so the constituency any wannabe GOP presidential nominee needs to have a chance at the nomination. For the time being, at least, Trump's behavior has altered the expectations and also the observable reality of what sort of approach can get someone elected--and may be necessary to get a Republican elected president at this time.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 11:12am
Very much appreciate the refinements of what I was trying to say. I have zero quibbles with what you say, rather, I am in awe that you can just whip it out like that.
Edit to add: Your point about Pence is an especially good one and one I never thought about. A perfect example of why I like this Dagblog place!
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 11:17am
adding on about your Pence point. Previously I had been thinking this: that they were cowed by Trump's popularity among the base. But they are supportive of Mueller because they would like to be rid of Trump. They would like to retain control of Congress but definitely are not interested in impeachment while in control of it. They were hoping for a Nixon situation where it's so bad that they can push him out. What you helped me see is that a President Pence is not really a good solution for them. They are stuck with the narcissist nut.
Add on: Forgot to mention with all of the above: sanctions against Russia have been nearly unanimous Senate votes. Against Trump's wishes. Anything they feel is safe as far as majority populace appeal but against Trump, that they'll do. Same as the White House Cabinet "resistance." It's basically like trying to intuit: what if we had a Trump that was sane, what would that president want? They'll go with the populism, they just want to make sure it actually is popular.
But the Supreme Court is the one thing where they go ideologue.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 1:08pm
WaPo lead editorial says the Senate cannot vote on this nomination:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-senate-cant-vote-on-kavanaug...
The visual image I have is of E.J. Dionne, Jr. and Jennifer Rubin, in particular, and maybe Ruth Marcus and/or Eugene Robinson as well, vehemently insisting last night to the ultimate decider(s) on these matters up the chain at the Post that this is the only responsible editorial position the paper can take on this matter.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:31am
So did the NYT. But it's far more important that the American Bar Association said basically the same thing late last night. I doubt we have ever had an appointment on the Supremes without their endorsement. It is trouble for Kavanaugh even if he gets appointed.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 11:11am
Especially since Kavanaugh made such a big deal about the ABA's earlier support:
from Meagan Flynn and Seung Min Kim WaPo piece on this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/09/28/american-b...
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 11:21am
ABA concerns about Kavanaugh 12 years ago, ignored by Republicans then as well:
"The American Bar Association had concerns about Kavanaugh 12 years ago. Republicans dismissed those, too." Avi Selk, WaPo online, yesterday afternoon: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/28/american-bar-associat...
by AmericanDreamer on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 12:35pm
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:34am
Intensely disappointing. To say the least. I had hope for him. He was saying some interesting things on his way out the door. With this decision, he's lost all his credibility with this citizen. The other stuff he had said in recent months was just for show when it came down to it, apparently. He turns out also to lack the moral compass he criticized Trump for lacking, even if he is not nearly as extreme or so hapless and hopeless a case.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:48am
Wish I could find all those folks back in the Bush years who equated neo-conservatism with racism. Bill Kristol was always a favorite target along those lines. Used to drive me nuts, they just couldn't see the divide that has escalated now: globalist neo-cons being for freeing Iraqis because they are just like us. Paleo isolationists like Pat Buchanan were the racists and they still thought "southern strategy" too. While neo-cons were for trying to win over urban areas. (The problem was making everything about Israel and Palestine, that confused the matter because many neo-cons were Jews, were pro-Israel as it was democratic and sought to transform Arab states to democracy too. Are many Israelis tribal racist? Yes, but so are many Americans. That is a downside one has to deal with in democracy, if neo-con, you call it out as Kristol has done here.)
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:50am
This is the same white supremacy practiced by Republicans for decades
Goldwater State’s rights
Nixon Southern Strategy
Reagan Welfare Queens
Trump ...............
There has been no shift
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 10:25am
We all know you have strange rationalizations and definitions for supporting the word tribalism. The way most people use it, though: racism is tribalism, it's tribal behavior based on skin color. Whether it's a new thing or an old thing or inbetween phenomenon, it's tribalism. It's just that simple.
And it's difficult to even have a discussion with someone if they have different definitions for words than everyone else.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 10:57am
I have no problem identifying with a tribe. I reject tribalism. I think that tribes can actually work together
————
What is a tribe? Tribalism? Per Merriam-Webster:
Tribe: a group of people that includes many families and relatives who have the same language, customs and beliefs; a group of persons having a common character, occupation or interest.
Tribalism: loyalty to a tribe or other social group especially when combined with strong negative feelings for people outside the group.
We all belong to at least one tribe. Yes: Outside of our immediate family, even loners and introverts (and gamers) are a loose confederation of the like-minded.
Other than family ties, tribalism in the West tends to be ideological and/or social. If you think about all the people you know, they likely identify with their religious or spiritual affiliation (or lack thereof), political, occupational, or social group (s)-or any combination of the aforementioned
—————
https://www.statesman.com/news/local/guest-column-tribes-and-tribalism-t...
I have pointed out the origins and meaning of identity politics
https://newrepublic.com/article/144739/liberals-get-wrong-identity-politics. It’s not my definition, it’s the definition.
My problem with Fukuyama is that his argument is a “both (all) sides do it argument. Wingnuts behave badly because they are prodded by Identity Politics on the Left. I point out the decades long history of white supremacy promoted by the GOP. Fukuyama sees a slide to identity politics on the Right. He seems to have missed the ever present white supremacy.
I belong to a tribe willing to work with other tribes.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 11:55am
"Whether it's a new thing or an old thing.."
It's the oldest thing in America. Republicans know it, Trump inflames it better than any of them.
I recently read the book, "The Arsenal of Democracy", it discussed the 1943 race riots in Detroit, where white mobs and white cops attacked and killed blacks. Why?
Because the wartime industries in Detroit needed workers, blacks were hired in large numbers, and paid the same, whites resented working with blacks, and housing with or near them. This while thousands of Americans were dying in the front lines. FDR had to send in federal troops to quell the riots.
by NCD on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:14pm
Well if you are going to go that far back, I've noticed that more than a few Never Trump Former Republicans say they would like the GOP return to being the party of Lincoln as opposed to the Democratic party of Jim Crow. The current GOP is a result of the racially oriented path in order to break the vise that LBJ Dems had on Congress and address the appeal of George Wallace, etc.. Eisenhower was actually a desegregationist. FDR at times executed some very racist things. Etc. History is complicated, political parties change, go figure.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:45pm
The core issue was white supremacy, not black identity politics. Blacks merely have to be in plain sight or in the mind for white supremacy to operate.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:48pm
"That far back" race riot had nothing to do with Party politics. It was white racism over country in the middle of a world war.
A rarely mentioned episode in the long list of disgraceful manifestations of racism in our history, which the current administration is building on to exploit and compound.
by NCD on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 6:32pm
Thanks for mentioning the book and the history
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 8:13pm
I view the identity politics discussion as a scam. As you point out many times all blacks had to do to enrage some whites was merely exist. If blacks band together for safety, it’s now identity politics.
Fukuyama sees things as “both sides do it”. Here are comments on Obamacare
——————
Take something like Obamacare, which I think was an important policy. A lot of its opponents interpreted it as a race-specific policy: This was the black president doing something for his black constituents. We need to get back to a narrative that’s focused less on narrow groups and more on larger collectivities, particularly the collectivity called the American people.
——————-
https://www.chronicle.com/article/What-Follows-the-End-of/244369
White supremacists argue that a universal program is race-specific and the problem is that we have to make white supremacists comfortable. Fukuyama would fault blacks for being tribal while the racists don’t have to change their behavior. We have to accommodate them Ridiculous.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:45pm
One can agree with you on Fukuyama and disagree with you on related points. You claim everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. You want democrats to ignore all Trump voters, even those who voted for Obama as an election strategy for the midterms and the 2020 election. Many of us here think those opinions are more than incorrect, they're ridiculous. So long as you espouse those views your credibility on these topics takes a big hit.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 3:44pm
People who voted for Trump were willing to cast a vote for a white supremacist. Multiple studies indicate that race/cultural anxiety was a more important factor than economics. Fukuyama’s point is that opponents of Obamacare saw the program as benefiting blacks and not whites. The program benefited all groups. Race has to be front and center in the discussion because some voters are responding to dog whistles.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 4:08pm
No one here has ever denied that racism was a major factor in electing Trump. But No study ever shows 100% of the participants believe or act the same way. Even studies that show blacks vote for democrats show that about 10% vote for republicans. If just 10% of Trump voters can be flipped, just the one's that voted for Obama, democrats will win in a landslide.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 4:25pm
I posted Fukuyama’s opinion about opposition to Obamacare. Fukuyama focuses on race.
I have pointed out before that 11-15% of black makes voted for Trump. Only 4% of black women voted for Trump. Efforts to flip those black males are underway.
The majorities of other ethnic groups support Democratic candidates. What specific message should be geared to those white voters that you want to attract?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 5:36pm
I'm not a candidate. Crafting messages isn't something I do. I don't speculate on what message to send to blacks, hispanics, women or men. I don't understand people sufficiently to craft political messages for them. One thing I'm sure of though is that calling them all racist isn't a good message. That's an absolutely ridiculous message and a ridiculous opinion.
eta: "I posted.." "I have pointed out.." Instead of responding to my comment you want to summarize what you posted. Just another one of the ways you avoid honest dialog. Anytime the dialog is to difficult for you to respond to you divert, distract, and obfuscate.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 5:48pm
Where is Richard Day? In his absence, and subject to being overruled by Richard or any other masthead person or denizen who wishes to do so, I hereby nominate the following passage in your comment for the Dagblog Understatement of the Day:
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 5:54pm
Race played a role in the support for Trump. They cast votes for a white supremacist. I consider those to be facts. Do those actions make them racists? Are those actions supportive of white supremacy? I don’t set policy for how the Democratic reaches out to white voters who supported Trump.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 6:46pm
dupe deleted
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 1:10am
The point I have been trying to make more politely a couple of times, once again upthread, and which you have been ignoring now has to be stated more brutally for that reason:
black votes won't help to turn the Senate this go round.
You can get every black in Chicago and New York out to vote and it won't help change the Senate one bit!
You have continually complained about lack of outreach to black voters. But party money and efforts have to be spent where it has an effect or the effect is enthusiastic losing. That's the political two-party system we have right now. One could start more parties for the individual tribes, I suppose, and push for a parliamentary system.
To be clear: who controls the House, it has no effect on the Supreme Court.
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 1:10am
Nothing I say prevents the Democratic Party from reaching out to any group of white voters.they wish to attract. I pointed out white voting patterns. I point out that majorities of ethnic minorities tend to support Democrats. What specific message do white Trump supporters need to hear? Race played a major role in the white voting pattern. What race- neutral message will work. When Fukuyama talked about Obamacare, he said that whites who supported Trump objected to the program because they felt it benefited black voters.The observations I post at dagblog have zero impact on any white voter.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 8:51am
Worse, doesn't get this concept, what we are dealing with right now, where every single African-American voter showing to the polls makes zero difference, may even make it worse as the few that live in North Dakota might be right to lifers:
It's nice romantic concept to believe enthused Dems are going to make a big difference, empowering to minorities blah blah blah. Guess what? We have a Senate and a Supreme Court that was specifically set up to be by the elite and not populist. We live in a republic. A further guess what: ya ain't never going to have a chance in hell of changing the electoral college setup without changing who are members of those other two bodies. White swing votes are enormously important. It's just the way it is until we have more integration and fewer ghettoes and aren't so gerrymandered.
Edit to add: another guess what: haters aren't going away until the final judgment day. They are going to be living in your country. Some of them might be against gerrymandering. One might wisely think twice about yelling at those.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 4:50pm
Yes, I've told this story before but people have probably forgotten it. When I lived in Florida I lived in a very black majority area. I walked to the local school to vote in 2008 and there was a democratic table staffed by two middle aged black women. As I walked up a well dressed middle aged black man walked up to vote. One of the women called out, "Brother, I hope you know who to vote for." He replied, "I can't. I just can't." He was obviously distressed and conflicted and went on to talk about abortion being the most important issue for him. The women replied sympathetically, "I understand brother, I understand." Even in this progressive black district there were blacks that voted for McCain over Obama.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 5:06pm
Republicans always win without the black vote. Democrats cannot win without the black vote. Nothing I say or do prevents Democratic outreach to white voters.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 10:24am
larger collectivities, particularly the collectivity called the American people.
oh, I see, you've changed your mind to be for universalism, all living under a creed called the Constitution. You are just using different words so that you don't have to admit it. E Pluribus Unum: Americans, not tribes.
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 12:40am
Glenn Thrush also noticed the dog whistle photo, has been working on it, and tweeted Kristol about it:
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 11:06am
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:36pm
I agree with Senator Whitehouse's statement this morning that the truth will come out whether Kavanaugh is confirmed or not. If this move by the G.O.P is an expenditure of political capital in order to gain a certain majority on the SC, it could all be for nothing.
by moat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:39pm
I see Blake over at the Post is way ahead of me.
by moat on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:49pm
Yes, thank you!
I will also just add my crazy wimmin intuition from watching him that he will not be that welcome in the club. Because: temperament. I foresee we'll be dealing with leakers from the Supremes staff about him causing discord.
BTW have CNN on in the background and just heard Blumenthal say the impeachment word in this statement, as in: he will be there for decades unless impeached.
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:56pm
Did I just hear Sen. Kennedy of Louisiana say this is no country for creepy old men?!!!
Edit to add: okay he's now quoting the Bible....on losing one's soul...
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 12:48pm
ETA: WaPo reporter is John Wagner, not Wager.
Seung Min Kim and John Wagner at WaPo reporting on some more recent developments:
........
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/senate-committee-prepares-to-vo...
Last night on MSNBC, Brian Williams read the Judge letter aloud on air and asked his guests for comment. Eugene Robinson of WaPo remarked drily that somehow, notwithstanding what she continues to struggle with, Ford sucked it up and showed up to testify. More male self-pity and special pleading from the Kavanaugh defenders.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 1:00pm
as to the two Flake protestors effect, from a female political scientist (Political scientist GWU, identity, race, gender, activism, movements. Author The Woman Suffrage Movement in America. Being underestimated is my superpower.)
in response to
Divorce your Republican husbands. @JillFilipovic 11:15 AM - 28 Sep 2018
by artappraiser on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 4:19pm
Cool. Interested in this topic of how and why social movements accomplish something or don't and just ordered her book. Like I don't have way too much stuff I want to read as is.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 4:29pm
If you can get around to it I recommend "Notes on a Foreign Country" by Suzy Hand\sen. Someone suggested it to me and it is very good. Oh yeah, that was you. Thanks.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 7:36pm
I appreciate the update and feedback. Thanks!
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 8:26pm
You might appreciate this. The woman who cuts my hair is an Iranian immigrant and now long time US ciitizen. We had a while back talked a little about the 1953 coup in her native country that was carried out by the precursor to the CIA.
While she was cutting my hair last weekend, I mentioned that I had recently seen a 2010 documentary I liked called "American Coup" about those events and we talked a bit more. I offered that I had known a little about that coup before seeing the documentary but learned a lot more from it, and that I doubted many Americans had any awareness or interest in that history despite its critical importance to understanding the modern Middle East.
And that I thought that the US government owed the people of Iran a long overdue apology for our government's role in those events.
Well. I was taken aback by her reaction. She was absolutely blown away that some US citizen knew and cared about any of this. She was really and truly touçhed. She cuts the hair of some powerful people and she said no one from this country had ever said this to her. Of course I do not speak for our government or our people. But the fact that someone from this country said that to her meant a great deal to her. I was really moved that the exchange had that impact on her.
According to the documentary Truman formed the precursor to the CIA as a central place in the federal government that would collect and analyze information about other countries. He was opposed and vetoed the Iran coup proposal. He wrote a NYT op ed in the 1960s saying that having an agency that would play the role the CIA was playing was not something he ever intended or supported.
According to the documentary Eisenhower was persuaded over his initial reservations to allow the coup, with Teddy Roosevelt's grandson Kermit playing the key role in executing it in Iran.
It set a precedent and served as a template of sorts for the role the CIA would come to play in the internal affairs of many other countries in the decades that followed.
In the context of our day's headlines some might wonder whether white male privilege piled on top of US hubris at that time had a role in the sort of foreign policy the US conducted during the Cold War and at times since then.
by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 9:29pm
AA you have so many comments here.
But Flake surprised me.
I never liked this guy as far as votes.
I was surprised by his decision to demand an investigation.
I was surprised.
And this guy's decision, made a difference.
And I shall remember this decision
by Richard Day on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 8:19pm
Oh and here is Lawrence O'Donnell singing the same song.
http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word
I am watching Lawrence right now at 9:21 CDT.
Yeah.
by Richard Day on Fri, 09/28/2018 - 10:17pm
Good! I think it's important for the "liberal media" to praise the other side of the aisle when they do something right precisely because: they're supposed to be "liberal."
Also I have a lot of respect for O'Donnell on anything Congressional. Here he surely knows what it takes to be an iconoclast there. Does everyone know his background as regards that?
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 12:09am
He's especially good on these matters because he knows just what to look for. He knew that it was significant, as well as dramatic, to air last night the footage focused on Flake during Coons' committee speech.
by AmericanDreamer on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 12:22pm
that said, I like to share this tweeted picture that has been "liked" by 4 art people I follow on Twitter,
the Drama Queen:
And I'd like to give kudos to C'Ville Dem for catching something was up with him right away while she was watching TV. I honestly wouldn't have paid attention as I was working on something at the same time and I would have missed the buildup to the climax of the big shew.
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 12:15am
Yah, even an artistic know-nothing like me can see why.
Now there there is a human who has the rapt attention of some other humans.
by AmericanDreamer on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 11:23am
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 1:40am
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 1:43am
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 2:04am
We'll see on how Flake eventually votes.
One of the reporters who guested on MSNBC last night, I think it was an NPR White House reporter, mentioned (again paraphrasing from memory and my interpretation of what I heard her say) that the FBI investigation could end up serving in effect, if not also intent among some senators supporting it, as the procedural fig leaf to push the nomination through in the end. Where the Kavanaugh supporters say, look, we gave you your FBI investigation, so what's the complaint now?
As of now, with the results of the investigation TBD, my gut tells me Flake is looking for a way to justify voting yes in the end.
If he does, it will make it politically harder for Collins, Murkowski and Manchin all to vote no, although that could still happen, and would defeat the nomination if all others vote on party lines. The four of them and/or their staffs surely will continue to communicate with one another over the next week. My gut tells me that Collins and Murkowski are more open to voting no than is Flake, going into the FBI investigation.
Murkowski has already been primaried and survived it by getting herself elected as an independent. She owes the GOP nothing except, if she were so inclined, perhaps a middle finger. It's possible that Collins may privately already have decided that, partly due to the no-win situation she faces here, she will in the end not run for re-election in 2020.
Flake is more right-wing and ideological in his worldview than either Collins or Murkowski. I have to fight the feeling that for Flake the main issue is procedural fairness, or as much of an appearance of same as can be generated to slightly calm down the appalled public at this time and try to mitigate electoral damage for his party in the mid-terms.
If Flake votes yes in the end, in his mind that may amount to having his cake and eating it, too. He gets credit for introducing one fairness measure into the process and possibly helping his party in the mid-terms, while also doing his part to get the substantive outcome--the votes on the future Court he is anticipating with a Kavanugh confirmation--he wants.
One reason Flake deserves credit now for what he did, regardless of the final vote, is that opening up the process in this way introduces uncertainty, which senators hate in high-stakes situations such as these. They know that bringing in the FBI this week could easily take this matter in (additional) unpredictable--and possibly uncontrollable--directions.
One wild card is Heitkamp. She is not receiving as much attention as the other four so far.
Another wild card is whether Kavanaugh will (even more visibly and seriously than Thursday, if that can be imagined) blow up under the scrutiny, which could lead to a withdrawal, either voluntary or pressured/forced by others. He may not emotionally survive the coming week.
by AmericanDreamer on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 12:20pm
My short humble impression...
This vision has been playing in my head ...
======
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 4:55am
"All's feral in love & war" - GOP by-laws
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 6:00am
Good closer for this thread:
by artappraiser on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 11:19pm