"Trump wishes to make Ilhan Omar the face of the Democratic Party heading into the 2020 elections—and now he has provoked Democrats to comply," argues @DavidFrum: https://t.co/QlwqUls9UD
We now have idiotic comments made by @realDonaldTrump about idiotic comments made by @IlhanMN about 9-11 and about Jewish Americans who support Israel.
Is that what should decide the 2020 election?
Nope. Let’s move on.
Jerry Nadler’s New York City district is among the most Jewish and among the most progressive in the country. He’s at the epicenter of this Trump-Ilhan-Israel-9/11 maelstrom. https://t.co/Viw1nMnfbq
Rep. Ilhan Omar: "Since the President's tweet Friday evening, I have experienced an increase in direct threats on my life—many directly referencing or replying to the President's video." https://t.co/ZQf0mFlFc0
Dog ate my better response, but 9/11 we took a planned hit from a shit disturber not too dissimilar from Trump in ways, and collectively (not just Republicans) lost our shit - invading the wrong country, killing hundreds of thousands, drone bombing countries outside our war zone including Ilhan's native Somalia, adding torture and murder of civilians to our toolkit, and bringing home leftover weapons from our trillion dollar spending spree to militarize the police force from "serve and protect" to "shoot/tase first, arrest later", especially for black people, even though the prime target of our hatred and hostility was a whole 'nuther set, Muslims - who due to passing brown skinned similarities passed on our paranoia to Hispanics ( a real economic/logistics issue, but not a security issue).
In short, we became America's Stupidest Generation - wasting our peace dividend on phantasms in the dark rather than actual large well-armed vicious armies of our parents' and grandparents' generations. Yeah, a guy flew a couple hijacked airplanes into our tallest buildings so we went all crazed and psychotic and self-destructive for 2 decades? Sounds unbelievable for a pulp fiction novel,Tom Clancy would've been ashamed - yet here we are. Will we double down and make it America's Stupidest Generation 2.0? Or have we had enough of ritual self-humiliation and failed interventions? Fuck the Republicans, vote in Democrats and sanity, come back out into the light where our daemons are largely illusory but we have much real work to do.
So you're happy with her particular personal jihad taking up all the air in the room and turning off voters who still emotionally react to the 9/11 attack and irrationally equate ultra conservative Islam as the United States' enemy? You're okay with her and Trump making this a national discussion for the umpteenth time? And losing all the swing voters who feel strongly about this but might agree with Dems on other things? Just so we can rehash history? You'd rather not like to re-direct to what the Saudi state has now become and still shouldn't be trusted? Something on which a majority might agree? You'd like to chase as many Democratic pro-Israel voters as possible over to the Sheldon Adelson tribe?
I don't have proof but I suspect a Dem party that supports Palestine uber alles is a Dem party that loses nationally, and that's where I think this is headed including that the Democratic party = the ISIS party. Why go there? To protect a newbie that doesn't know how to word her p.o.v. tactfully and in a politically smart way, one who doesn't know how to stop feeding a troll, one you might ban if she were on your website and you were the moderator because she's bound and determined to inflame things about old hurts?
What do you think of a Democratic Party that backs Netanyahu who is now allied with a bunch of right wing racists? Netanyahu rejects an apartheid state. How do you think Democratic voters would respond to being connected ton Netanyahu? Many American Jews are not fond of Netanyahu.
“Netanyahu is the most polarizing prime minister as far as American Jews are concerned,” said David A. Halperin, executive director of the Israel Policy Forum, a think tank in New York that advocates for a two-state solution between Israelis and Palestinians.
American Jews largely favor a two-state solution to the Palestinian conflict, often pointing out that denying some 3 million West Bank Palestinians the right to vote will make it impossible for Israel to be both a Jewish and a democratic state, which American Jews see as a Jewish value.
I suspect she can say "my bedroom is blue" and they'll find a million reasons to be horrified. Fuck them. They killed hundreds of thousands over a mistaken trumped up war and blew a trillion dollars doing it. The less we baby these guckers, the more we actually figjy back, the better off we are. We sent armed drones around Somalia to kill "suspected" terrorists with few to no controls, yet she's supposed to yiptoe around our feelings? We should grow tje fuck up. We have the most audacious criminal fuck as president, yet we're supposed to hide under our desks and only carefully criticize the rigjt's awful fucking self-destructive memes? Again, fuck that. No one ever convinced anyone by acting meek. That doesn't mean every misstatement should be defended, but Trump can brainfart and lie 20 times a day and his lapdogs will defend him and lie to cover for him. What kind of play-it-safe strategy will beat shameless motherfuckers? If "christians" are willing to back torture and stealing kids from parents and working with Russia to undermine our system, what difference does it even make what Ilhan said? If people lost thousands of dollars in their party's "taxcuts", how are we ever to convince them they're being lied to if they don't think for themselves? Sure, 65 million Democrats should just STFU or speak in hished careful? tones for 5 years or so while on-the-fence Republicans and independents get their shit together and think it all over? I think not. Look at these Brexit bastards -3 incompetent years later most of them are shamelessly clinging on to their lies and ignoring their fake promises. It's the same everywhere - no one ever says sorry except insincerely or patsy rolled-over Democrats.
I see her as a female Glenn Greenwald, is just that simple. You sound like him too right now. And Consortium News. Sure why not just have Chomsky head the DNC? Here ya go, "Media of the Day" from Counterpunch April 6: Noam Chomsky – Why Does the U.S. Support Israel? Yeah, let's all re-litigate the Iraq War, that'll get all the votes. The meme is out there, ready to go, thanks to Omar and Trump.
I just can't pay attention to this controversy. It all seems like much ado about nothing. I have no problem with anything Omar has said. Maybe it wasn't good politics I really don't know. Maybe most people don't give a shit about this manufactured controversy just like I couldn't care less about it. You spend much time here talking about not feeding the trolls and ignoring Trump tweets. Then you spend so much time getting into what I see as these phony controversies sparked by Trump tweets
Seth's referring to Elliot Broidy - imagine the Democrats having a felony convict (for >$1 million in bribes to get at a state pension fund) as Deputy Finance Director of DNC or any Democratic candidate having campaign funders with this amount of Controversies, namely illegal lobbying without obtaining FARA clearance to lobby for Malaysia (1MDB offering him $75 million to close a DoJ investigation), Ukraine (VTB Bank/ICU for Poroshenko worth $12.5 million in payouts), UAE & Saudi Arabia (to get Tillerson fired among other acts)...
But Ilhan said something vague - not sufficiently adorational and fawning - about 9/11 - let's everyone clutch pearls.
I'm so glad we have articles blindly praising Trump's fundraising rather than noting that almost all his money came via Trump Victory, a fund run forever by a guy whose Wikipedia page has a "Controversies" section a mile long and is almost certain to face federal bribery charges https://t.co/Ow3Rywfuae
Omar was criticized for suggesting Jews had dual loyalties
Trump referred to Netanyahu as the Prime Minister of the Jews
ADDRESSING AMERICAN JEWS on Saturday in Las Vegas, President Donald Trump casually invoked the anti-Semitic trope of dual loyalty by referring to Israel’s leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, as “your prime minister.”
For me all your links and comments do is confirm nearly everything Frum says as correct.
....Having promised not to “let him drive us apart” from Omar, Democrats are now stuck with responsibility for the reckless things the representative from Minnesota says, not only about Jews, but about other issues, too. Omar has already served notice that she does not intend to behave more circumspectly in the future....
The Democrats are on notice. More remarks will be coming....Against Omar’s propensity to provoke, the Democratic Party seems institutionally almost defenseless....
After Trump’s tweeted attack, Omar will become even more internally uncriticizable and unmanageable, without becoming any more careful or responsible. Indeed, the speech by Omar that provided Trump with the sound bite he exploited—“some people did something”—itself exemplifies her carelessness and irresponsibility. The speech was delivered at a fundraiser in California for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. Here’s the full sentence from which Trump took his sound bite: “CAIR was founded after 9/11, because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties.”
CAIR was, in fact, founded seven years before 9/11. That error should matter to more than fact-checkers. It severs CAIR from its own history of radical advocacy and apologetics....
She deserves the protection any Congressperson of any party gets. But she is a Congressperson now bearing the standard of the Dem party, not a pseudonymous commenter on a website. She should have known how not to feed the trolls and get herself and the entire party in this position. She should be quietly protected but also lectured on the smart way to express what she believes. Not drag the entire party down to being in the position of feeding the troll. If she expects the support of her party, she needs to learn how to be a team player, not a Tulsi Gabbard or Jill Stein. Or drop the party I.D. and become an Independent where she can throw bombs all she likes with harm accruing only to herself and her Minneapolis-area constituents (a majority of which might not be thrilled either.)
Republicans will be upset no matter what any Democratic Party member says about anything. Omar is not dragging the party down. Trump is destroying the country. Perhaps you haven’t noticed that he called Netanyahu the prime minister for Jewish American. He found good people among the Neo-Nazis in Charlottesville. Omar is not the problem. Democrats need to be very vocal in pointing out the threat that Trump poses to Omar.
Do you think Dem Afro-Americans would agree with her that the party should share her views the way she voices them? I think of like. a lot of Afro-Americans with family who serve in or have served in the armed services who would not. Being of color does not equate 100% solidarity with a ideological cause that caters to a one sub-tribe of color.
Burnsville visit is seen as an opening gambit in fiercely contested bid for the state in 2020.
By Patrick Condon @ Star Tribune, April 15, 11:37 pm
President Donald Trump is bullish about his re-election chances in Minnesota despite the state’s long history of backing Democrats for president.
With a visit to a Burnsville trucking company Monday afternoon to talk taxes, Trump also lays down a marker for 2020 in a state whose 10 electoral votes he’s long seen as winnable.
Winning Minnesota is “going to be really, really easy, I think,” the Republican said at a Duluth rally last year, after reminding supporters how close he came in 2016.
Kevin Poindexter, executive director of the Minnesota Republican Party, said the national GOP under Trump will make Minnesota a priority in 2020.
“This is going to be a targeted state like you’ve never seen before by Republicans,” he said.
It will be Trump’s first public appearance in the Twin Cities since he became president. He’s headed to the politically pivotal suburbs for a roundtable discussion on the tax cuts and the Minnesota economy [....]
I see her so far become a Farrakhan-like divider-not-uniter. So far she seems to just be stumbling into it out of lack of savvy and too much trolling on I-P issues on the internet and presuming the real world would be like that, too. But maybe I am wrong, maybe she wants to dig in her heels and be purposely inflammatory.
Omar’s core argument was simple: We Muslims are not guests here. We are as American as everyone else and, thus, we should bring our full selves into the public square. “For a really long time in this country,” she said, “we have been told that there is a privilege that we are given and it might be taken away. We are told that we should be appropriate. We should go to school, get an education, raise our children and not bother anyone, not make any kind of noise, don’t make anyone uncomfortable.”
Many Jews who have lived outside the United States will instinctively understand what she meant. My father once told me that, after immigrating to the United States from South Africa, he was surprised to meet a Jewish police officer: He had assumed that American Jews, like their South African counterparts, stuck to business and the professions while leaving government service to the Christian majority. In 1994, The New Yorker’s Calvin Trillin wroteabout a controversy over the construction of an eruv (an enclosure designed to allow observant Jews to carry on Shabbat) in London. In explaining why many of the fiercest opponents of the eruv were Jews themselves, Trillin suggested that they worried that, by standing out, Jews might imperil their acceptance in English society. “English Jews felt they had been given a room in the house,” the novelist Dan Jacobson told Trilling, “but were not part of the family.” A Canadian Jewish friend, who marvels at how American Jewish groups unapologetically assert themselves in Washington, once told me such political boldness is harder in Canada because “we still consider ourselves guests in the queen’s country.”
This is the mentality Omar argued against. While keeping your head down so as not to provoke the majority might seem safer, she argued, it’s actually more dangerous because only through political assertion can minorities safeguard their rights. “You can go to school and be a good student. You can listen to your dad and mom and become a doctor. You can have that beautiful wedding that makes mom and dad happy. You can buy that beautiful house,” she told the audience at CAIR. “But none of that stuff matters if you one day show up to the hospital and your wife or maybe yourself is having a baby and you can’t have the access that you need because someone doesn’t recognize you as fully human. It doesn’t matter how good you were if you can’t have your prayer mat and take your 15-minute break to go pray.”
Rather than living “with the discomfort of being a second-class citizen,” Omar argued, American Muslims should “raise hell, make people uncomfortable”—just as African Americans and other discriminated-against minorities have. In so doing, they would inspire others to rally to their cause, because “once you are willing to stand up for yourself … then others will show up for you.”
Sen. Cory Booker argued Monday that bigotry is a motivating factor for President Donald Trump in some of his most pointed political attacks, particularly his incendiary tweet last weekend about Rep. Ilhan Omar.
"Nothing she said is deserving of what's happening to her and what the President is doing to her. This is a reprehensible attack on her. It's trying to incite anti-Islamic feelings, trying divide Americans," Booker told CNN's Poppy Harlow on "New Day." "And we all should all rally to a fellow American congresswoman's defense right now against a President that seems to have this disgusting, in my opinion, desire to continue to attack, especially African-Americans, whether they are football players or the congressperson."
“For two years, this President has used the most powerful platform in the world to sow hate & division. He’s done it again. Putting the safety of a sitting member of Congress @IlhanMN at risk & vilifying a whole religion is beyond the pale. I’ll be blunt — we must defeat him,” Harris wrote.
If he gets somewhere, I guess Dems might as well be the angry Omar lefty CAIR party as they'll pretty much have a strong chance of losing all the suburban swings and Never Trumpers and liberalatarians that helped them win the House. (Republican Weld won something like 70% + vote of Massachusetts as Gov.) If they try real hard protecting the borderline anti-semitic memes, maybe they can even cleanse the party of the Michael Wolraich and Bruce Levine types, see them go over to Weld.
I see no evidence to back up your claim. I searched for any poll I could find on Ilhan Omar and found nothing. I doubt that a majority of people have even heard of her or are following any of these controversies. Do you have any polling information or is this just your guess?
Not really. It's about being trolls and distracting people with emotional culture wars issues that can't really be solved well with politics. Exactly like classic trolls on internet forums do. Politically: need a distraction, start an argument about about abortion or Terry Shiavo.
She feeds the right wing and Trump trolls, she uses the same inflammatory terminology just like she's spent a lot of time on the worst I-P forums. They are famously the worst where the worst troll redirects go on.It's why the meatspace problem itself is intractable, it's devolved into meatspace version of trolling. Yell shit at each other that meant to inflame emotions so nothing changes.
Aside, sort of on topic, I would post it where you said you were suspended from Twitter for no understandable reason but I don't remember where you posted that. I just saw this. Go figure. They really must have idjits (or idjit bots) working moderation. I would think for their own good they would at least give give some more intelligent attention to types of complainants, after all she's a published journalist with lots of similar connections, it's not like this one would be ignored with a shrug.
Ha, thanks for that - i'll use that in my next email to them. "Is this the kind of behavior you'd like me to exhibit? Instead of puns about Tiki Lamps and "pet 'tards", just go full-out no subtlety anti-semitic (plus cursing/the f-word of course)"?
As for Ilhan's "worst trolling", an interesting victim of 9/11 shares how the event's been co-opted and trivialized even as similar events tak place but are quickly forgotten. Sandy Hook parents were just "fakes", while 9/11 is sacrosanct. Parkland? Them kids...
Again, I just agree with David Frum, no need to get into all of that. People's feelings about 9/11 aren't easily going to be changed by now, whatever they are. Same with I-P. You can get into that on blogs if you like, I am a First Amendment purist after all. If you want enough votes for a winning majority, different story.
Or you could watch what Nancy Pelosi said on 60 minutes in the first minute of this video (and you gotta to watch to get the tone of voice; just reading a transcript won't give you her message accurately):
She knows that this is getting stuck in the Trump trap of childish trolling behavior and the Dems need to look like adults. The majority is right in there in the polls for the taking-60% against Trump like behavior. All you got to do is not behave like him. Why look a gift horse in the mouth by going down to his level? What I admire the most about her new learned demeanor is that she no longer falls for the troll bait but always looks like the grownup compared to Trump. I.E. no we are not going to talk about your nonsense emotional culture wars distraction of the day and no we are not going to feed you culture wars memes to troll about and distract with. She learned from hard experience . Remember she used to be enemy #1 of the troll nut cases not so long ago, a distraction herself. She's got eyes on the prize now.
Edit to add: the word to remember with is inflammatory. As in: inflame the emotional knee jerk reactions. (I don't know why I have such a hard time remembering it, we used to have a separate section on the forum where I was a moderator called Flame Wars where people knew they could insult other's sensibilities to the max if they wanted.) Omar doesn't seem to do it intentionally, it is like a clueless naivete of using terminology from a little closed tribe that is not considered inflammatory in private but is inflammatory in the big wide real world. GOP experts look for that, they seize on it and pound on labeling the opposition with it. It sticks with just enough voters especially if pounded this early on.
Omar is not the problem. She is the one who is at risk.
Edit to add:
It is interesting to note that Frum’s article was part of a project supported by Charles Koch. (See the funding acknowledgment in the footnote to the article.
David Frum wrote a lazy column and some people fell for the premise.
David Frum, the former Bush speechwriter who now has a cushy gig writing proto-fascist shitposts for the Atlantic, does not like Rep. Ilhan Omar. Bret Stephens, the climate change denier who now has a cushy gig writing proto-fascist shitposts for the New York Times, also does not like the Somali refugee-turned-elected official from Minnesota. Shocker!
The general thesis of the piece is that by supporting Omar, whose comments at CAIR have been blown wildly out of proportion and used to fuel a week of dangerously bigoted attacks, Democrats have fallen into the trap of supporting a radical, which opens them to new attacks from the right.
Here are the obvious rebuttals: that, actually, it’s good if mainstream Democrats adopt Omar’s progressive views; that this piece and Frum’s entire career right now are an example of Republican guy tries to give advice to Democrats who he’s obviously working against, and that Frum was just looking for an excuse to hate a black Muslim congresswoman because he’s a gigantic bigot.
The Trump 2020 campaign is going after seniors on Facebook in a much more aggressive way than the leading Democratic campaigns, according to data given to Axios exclusively from Bully Pulpit Interactive.
So far this cycle, the Trump camp is spending 44% of its Facebook ad budget to target users 65 years old and older, Axios reports. The top 12 Democrats have allotted 27% of their Facebook ad budgets to those voters.
Older voters helped boost Trump to the White House in 2016, when voters 65+ went for Trump over Hillary Clinton by a 52-45 margin. That’s six points better for Trump than his average (Clinton won the overall popular vote 48-46).
At the Orlando Amphitheater, Florida, December 2016. Photograph: ddp USA/REX/Shutterstock
In his ads targeting older voters, Trump’s anti-immigrant message is sounding loud and clear, Axios reports:
Trump is using nativist language around immigrants in 54% of his ads, according to BPI. So far Democrats have not responded in kind on the topic of immigration and are focused on fundraising and other policy issues.
How does this change anything? Primary season hasn’t even begun and Trump voters are cult members and they would never vote for Weld or anyone normal like him.
David Frum helped America fall into the Iraq War trap. He was GWB speech writer who coined the "axis of evil" line in GWB SOU speech in 2002.
The speech and the linking of Iraq with North Korea, followed by "regime change" in Iraq, not only greased the skids for the invasion of Iraq, but caused NK to kick out the video cameras and the international inspectors from NK nuclear facilities. A few years later NK detonated its first nucelar weapon.
That Frum is still given a cushy job at Atlantic is testimony to the insular bubble of the inside the beltway corporate media, where, no matter how wrong or how much damage you have done, you will never be held accountable, will always have a job, and the disasters you supported will be no hindrance to your well reimbursed media career.
The president is following a Republican playbook that is now nearly two decades old.
By Jamelle Bouie @ NYTimes.com, Opinion Columnist, April 16, 2019
From bio link: Politics, history and culture. Based in Charlottesville, Va., and Washington, Jamelle Bouie became a New York Times Opinion columnist in 2019. Before that he was the chief political correspondent for Slate magazine. Mr. Bouie, who is a political analyst for CBS News, has been a staff writer at The Daily Beast and has held fellowships at The American Prospect and The Nation magazine. You can follow him on Twitter. He is also a photographer. To see his photos, follow him on Instagram.
Trump is a master at diversion. It boosts the Republican base. Republicans are racists and bigots. People who are now racists and bigots would at least criticize his words on minorities and immigrants.
Rational people realize that Omar’s words were taken out of context. The Republican base approved of Trump’s Muslim ban. They have no problem with Trump’s statement that he saw Muslims rejoicing after the Twin Towers fell. Some on the Right are falsely saying that the cathedral at Notre Dame was attacked by Muslims. They turned a blind eye when Barack Obama was said to be a Muslim. The rot was already in the Republican Party before Trump showed up to fertilize the ground.
Masha Gesson studies authoritarian states. Trump is an authoritarian. His attack on Omar is predictable.
You know how bullying works. The victim is marked long before the bullying begins: it’s the kid no one really likes, the weirdo who is barely tolerated by the larger group. The defenseless, isolated kid. And when the bullying starts to happen, the rest of the children look the other way. Even the ones the victim thought were his friends go silent. Especially the ones he thought were his friends.
Political violence can work the same way. In modern states ruled by autocrats, or aspiring autocrats, political violence is dispersed and delegated. Its first weapons are ridicule and ostracism. Once a person has been marginalized and discredited among allies, physical violence becomes a likely option. In Russia, I witnessed this several times among people I knew, who stood alone and embattled before they were killed. The Parliament member Galina Starovoitova, who had once been a prominent member of Boris Yeltsin’s Cabinet, was, by the late nineteen-nineties, portrayed by the Russian media as someone whose ideas were outdated and irrelevant. She was shot dead in the stairwell of her apartment building, in November of 1998. The journalist Anna Politkovskaya was an often short-tempered person whose reporting was viewed as partisan and unreliable by many of her more mainstream colleagues. She was shot dead in the elevator of her apartment building, in October of 2006. The politician Boris Nemtsov, once viewed as Yeltsin’s most likely successor, was by the twenty-tens seen as an old-timer who, even as he protested the regime, didn’t quite grasp the new language of protest. He was shot dead on a bridge in central Moscow, in February of 2015. In all three cases, the people convicted or accused of the murder did not have a direct relationship to the Kremlin but were seemingly moved by a desire to act on their loyalty to it.
After their deaths, all three victims were idealized. Most Americans who have heard of them probably imagine that they were widely revered. They certainly deserved to be widely revered, but in fact they had been abandoned, late in life, even by many of those who should have been their political allies. They were difficult people with uncomfortable views; standing by their sides in an increasingly hostile political environment was hard work. But, by omitting this part of the story, we elide a key fact about contemporary political violence: bullies don’t go after the strong. In Russia, the anti-corruption activist Alexei Navalny is walking around, not only alive but also mostly free, solely because the government knows that he has the support of hundreds of thousands of people who will protest if he is jailed and may revolt if he is killed. His life depends on this support.
For the past three months, Americans have observed the process of drawing a target on a politician’s back. The politician is Representative Ilhan Omar, of Minnesota. Two of her fundamental positions—that the United States government and many of its elected officials support an apartheid regime in Israel-Palestine, and that the civil rights of Muslims in the U.S. are routinely trampled by entities that include the government—are as uncomfortable for many Americans as they are indisputable. Her way of expressing those positions—unabashed, and at times seemingly unaware of context—makes her the kind of disagreeable person who is easy for presumptive allies to shun. This, in turn, makes her vulnerable to attack
You see victimhood. I see incompetence. I expect more savvy from politicians against their antagonists. I don't feel sorry for any politician. I do feel sorry for private citizens who are smeared. But politicians, they asked for votes and they asked for the job and they asked to be in the hardball game of politics. Actually, I especially don't like the idea that the salaries of incompetents are paid with tax money. Smart politicians have been the targets of Trump and handled it well and even to their benefit because frankly: he's not that smart. She's not a poor baby private citizen anymore, she's a U.S. Congressperson and a member of the Democratic caucus. She presented herself as being capable of handling that. If she can't handle speaking her version of her "truth to power" that doesn't jive with everyone in her party, she should have let someone who can.
How come I never saw you complain about poor Bernie Sanders being picked on by Trump, Fox News, the right wingers?
Again: she is not a baby, she's a U.S. Congressperson.
And if she doesn't like the amount of support she is getting from her Democratic colleagues, maybe she belongs as an Independent like Bernie was. And take the heat for it like he did.
Edit to add: and if she saw herself as representing Muslim-Americans in Congress, if I was one, I would judge her as doing a poor job so far. I would expect more savvy.
I see a person who is knowledgeable about authoritarian governments issuing a warning. Bessel did not notice death threats increasing after Trump went after Sanders. Pelosi, Gessen, etc do see something different happening with Omar that did not happen with Sanders.
Hate crimes increase after Trump rallies. Trump targets Maxine Waters, she gets death threats. Ditto with Omar. You see pity olympics. Ordinary citizens might think that if people are willing to go after politicians, they have no problems attacking regular citizens. Martin Luther King Jr. was killed to send a message to all black people.
You have a different point of view than Muslim activist
Omar has no obligation to leave the Democratic Party. She is a Democrat and seeks to make change from within. She is in the tradition of Fannie Lou Hamer and the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party.
When faced with an authoritarian, as Gesson notes, the last thing you want is appeasement. You cannot compromise with authoritarians. Societies that were silent succumbed to the authoritarians.
Comments
by artappraiser on Sun, 04/14/2019 - 10:05pm
by artappraiser on Sun, 04/14/2019 - 10:31pm
by artappraiser on Sun, 04/14/2019 - 10:48pm
deleted; too much work to post and shouldn't be feeding all the real and faux outrage anyways, even with criticism
by artappraiser on Sun, 04/14/2019 - 11:06pm
Dog ate my better response, but 9/11 we took a planned hit from a shit disturber not too dissimilar from Trump in ways, and collectively (not just Republicans) lost our shit - invading the wrong country, killing hundreds of thousands, drone bombing countries outside our war zone including Ilhan's native Somalia, adding torture and murder of civilians to our toolkit, and bringing home leftover weapons from our trillion dollar spending spree to militarize the police force from "serve and protect" to "shoot/tase first, arrest later", especially for black people, even though the prime target of our hatred and hostility was a whole 'nuther set, Muslims - who due to passing brown skinned similarities passed on our paranoia to Hispanics ( a real economic/logistics issue, but not a security issue).
In short, we became America's Stupidest Generation - wasting our peace dividend on phantasms in the dark rather than actual large well-armed vicious armies of our parents' and grandparents' generations. Yeah, a guy flew a couple hijacked airplanes into our tallest buildings so we went all crazed and psychotic and self-destructive for 2 decades? Sounds unbelievable for a pulp fiction novel,Tom Clancy would've been ashamed - yet here we are. Will we double down and make it America's Stupidest Generation 2.0? Or have we had enough of ritual self-humiliation and failed interventions? Fuck the Republicans, vote in Democrats and sanity, come back out into the light where our daemons are largely illusory but we have much real work to do.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 12:58am
So you're happy with her particular personal jihad taking up all the air in the room and turning off voters who still emotionally react to the 9/11 attack and irrationally equate ultra conservative Islam as the United States' enemy? You're okay with her and Trump making this a national discussion for the umpteenth time? And losing all the swing voters who feel strongly about this but might agree with Dems on other things? Just so we can rehash history? You'd rather not like to re-direct to what the Saudi state has now become and still shouldn't be trusted? Something on which a majority might agree? You'd like to chase as many Democratic pro-Israel voters as possible over to the Sheldon Adelson tribe?
I don't have proof but I suspect a Dem party that supports Palestine uber alles is a Dem party that loses nationally, and that's where I think this is headed including that the Democratic party = the ISIS party. Why go there? To protect a newbie that doesn't know how to word her p.o.v. tactfully and in a politically smart way, one who doesn't know how to stop feeding a troll, one you might ban if she were on your website and you were the moderator because she's bound and determined to inflame things about old hurts?
by artappraiser on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 12:44pm
What do you think of a Democratic Party that backs Netanyahu who is now allied with a bunch of right wing racists? Netanyahu rejects an apartheid state. How do you think Democratic voters would respond to being connected ton Netanyahu? Many American Jews are not fond of Netanyahu.
https://religionnews.com/2019/04/10/how-netanyahus-win-could-further-polarize-american-jews/
Others note that Jewish Americans are not monolithic regarding Israel
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/04/israel-votes-as-american-jews-and-netanyahu-grow-apart/586705/
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 12:58pm
I suspect she can say "my bedroom is blue" and they'll find a million reasons to be horrified. Fuck them. They killed hundreds of thousands over a mistaken trumped up war and blew a trillion dollars doing it. The less we baby these guckers, the more we actually figjy back, the better off we are. We sent armed drones around Somalia to kill "suspected" terrorists with few to no controls, yet she's supposed to yiptoe around our feelings? We should grow tje fuck up. We have the most audacious criminal fuck as president, yet we're supposed to hide under our desks and only carefully criticize the rigjt's awful fucking self-destructive memes? Again, fuck that. No one ever convinced anyone by acting meek. That doesn't mean every misstatement should be defended, but Trump can brainfart and lie 20 times a day and his lapdogs will defend him and lie to cover for him. What kind of play-it-safe strategy will beat shameless motherfuckers? If "christians" are willing to back torture and stealing kids from parents and working with Russia to undermine our system, what difference does it even make what Ilhan said? If people lost thousands of dollars in their party's "taxcuts", how are we ever to convince them they're being lied to if they don't think for themselves? Sure, 65 million Democrats should just STFU or speak in hished careful? tones for 5 years or so while on-the-fence Republicans and independents get their shit together and think it all over? I think not. Look at these Brexit bastards -3 incompetent years later most of them are shamelessly clinging on to their lies and ignoring their fake promises. It's the same everywhere - no one ever says sorry except insincerely or patsy rolled-over Democrats.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 1:12pm
I see her as a female Glenn Greenwald, is just that simple. You sound like him too right now. And Consortium News. Sure why not just have Chomsky head the DNC? Here ya go, "Media of the Day" from Counterpunch April 6: Noam Chomsky – Why Does the U.S. Support Israel? Yeah, let's all re-litigate the Iraq War, that'll get all the votes. The meme is out there, ready to go, thanks to Omar and Trump.
by artappraiser on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 2:43pm
Sure, denying facts that don't fit my preconceived worldviews, that's me.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 2:50pm
I just can't pay attention to this controversy. It all seems like much ado about nothing. I have no problem with anything Omar has said. Maybe it wasn't good politics I really don't know. Maybe most people don't give a shit about this manufactured controversy just like I couldn't care less about it. You spend much time here talking about not feeding the trolls and ignoring Trump tweets. Then you spend so much time getting into what I see as these phony controversies sparked by Trump tweets
by ocean-kat on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 2:58pm
The problem is that Trump is creating a security threat. Pelosi seems to be taking it seriously.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 3:09pm
Bill Maher caught major shit in 2001 for pointing out the hijackers weren't "cowards".
Always fighting the same gotcha word games.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 3:12pm
Seth's referring to Elliot Broidy - imagine the Democrats having a felony convict (for >$1 million in bribes to get at a state pension fund) as Deputy Finance Director of DNC or any Democratic candidate having campaign funders with this amount of Controversies, namely illegal lobbying without obtaining FARA clearance to lobby for Malaysia (1MDB offering him $75 million to close a DoJ investigation), Ukraine (VTB Bank/ICU for Poroshenko worth $12.5 million in payouts), UAE & Saudi Arabia (to get Tillerson fired among other acts)...
But Ilhan said something vague - not sufficiently adorational and fawning - about 9/11 - let's everyone clutch pearls.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 5:41am
Omar was criticized for suggesting Jews had dual loyalties
Trump referred to Netanyahu as the Prime Minister of the Jews
https://theintercept.com/2019/04/07/unlike-ilhan-omar-donald-trump-accuse-american-jews-dual-loyalty-israel/
Omar receives death threats, she has to be defended.
Edit to add:
Pelosi is calling for a review of security for Omar.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nancy-pelosi-trump-ilhan-omar_n_5cb37f1ae4b098b9a2d553cd
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 8:16am
Trump is now attacking Pelosi for defending Omar.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-tweets-nancy-pelosi-ilhan-omar_n_5cb489b7e4b098b9a2d72b14
Republicans are remaining silent
This speaks volumes about the cesspool that is now the GOP. Trump is just a symptom.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 11:43am
For me all your links and comments do is confirm nearly everything Frum says as correct.
by artappraiser on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 12:26pm
Trump is putting Omar’s life at risk, are you willing to stand on the sidelines?
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 12:33pm
She deserves the protection any Congressperson of any party gets. But she is a Congressperson now bearing the standard of the Dem party, not a pseudonymous commenter on a website. She should have known how not to feed the trolls and get herself and the entire party in this position. She should be quietly protected but also lectured on the smart way to express what she believes. Not drag the entire party down to being in the position of feeding the troll. If she expects the support of her party, she needs to learn how to be a team player, not a Tulsi Gabbard or Jill Stein. Or drop the party I.D. and become an Independent where she can throw bombs all she likes with harm accruing only to herself and her Minneapolis-area constituents (a majority of which might not be thrilled either.)
I agree with Frum 100%.
by artappraiser on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 12:54pm
Republicans will be upset no matter what any Democratic Party member says about anything. Omar is not dragging the party down. Trump is destroying the country. Perhaps you haven’t noticed that he called Netanyahu the prime minister for Jewish American. He found good people among the Neo-Nazis in Charlottesville. Omar is not the problem. Democrats need to be very vocal in pointing out the threat that Trump poses to Omar.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 1:03pm
Do you think Dem Afro-Americans would agree with her that the party should share her views the way she voices them? I think of like. a lot of Afro-Americans with family who serve in or have served in the armed services who would not. Being of color does not equate 100% solidarity with a ideological cause that caters to a one sub-tribe of color.
I see:
Trump returns to Minnesota with eye on 2020 election
Burnsville visit is seen as an opening gambit in fiercely contested bid for the state in 2020.
By Patrick Condon @ Star Tribune, April 15, 11:37 pm
I see her so far become a Farrakhan-like divider-not-uniter. So far she seems to just be stumbling into it out of lack of savvy and too much trolling on I-P issues on the internet and presuming the real world would be like that, too. But maybe I am wrong, maybe she wants to dig in her heels and be purposely inflammatory.
by artappraiser on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 1:09pm
Here is the core of the speech at CAIR
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/ilhan-omars-deeply-american-message-to-cair/587131/
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 1:34pm
Here is Democrat Cory Booker
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/15/politics/cory-booker-ilhan-omar-trump-cnntv/index.html
Here is Democrat Kamala Harris
http://time.com/5570051/2020-democrats-ilhan-omar-trump/
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 1:39pm
Big game changer
BILL WELD OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCES HE IS CHALLENGING TRUMP FOR GOP NOMINATION IN 2020
If he gets somewhere, I guess Dems might as well be the angry Omar lefty CAIR party as they'll pretty much have a strong chance of losing all the suburban swings and Never Trumpers and liberalatarians that helped them win the House. (Republican Weld won something like 70% + vote of Massachusetts as Gov.) If they try real hard protecting the borderline anti-semitic memes, maybe they can even cleanse the party of the Michael Wolraich and Bruce Levine types, see them go over to Weld.
by artappraiser on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 5:58pm
I see no evidence to back up your claim. I searched for any poll I could find on Ilhan Omar and found nothing. I doubt that a majority of people have even heard of her or are following any of these controversies. Do you have any polling information or is this just your guess?
by ocean-kat on Mon, 04/15/2019 - 6:33pm
Guess from what Republican professional operatives and media are doing with it. And from similar that the same have done in the past successfully.
by artappraiser on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 12:06am
Playing Miss Manners?
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5cb4e344e4b098b9a2d87382
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 12:48am
Not really. It's about being trolls and distracting people with emotional culture wars issues that can't really be solved well with politics. Exactly like classic trolls on internet forums do. Politically: need a distraction, start an argument about about abortion or Terry Shiavo.
She feeds the right wing and Trump trolls, she uses the same inflammatory terminology just like she's spent a lot of time on the worst I-P forums. They are famously the worst where the worst troll redirects go on.It's why the meatspace problem itself is intractable, it's devolved into meatspace version of trolling. Yell shit at each other that meant to inflame emotions so nothing changes.
Aside, sort of on topic, I would post it where you said you were suspended from Twitter for no understandable reason but I don't remember where you posted that. I just saw this. Go figure. They really must have idjits (or idjit bots) working moderation. I would think for their own good they would at least give give some more intelligent attention to types of complainants, after all she's a published journalist with lots of similar connections, it's not like this one would be ignored with a shrug.
by artappraiser on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 1:22am
Ha, thanks for that - i'll use that in my next email to them. "Is this the kind of behavior you'd like me to exhibit? Instead of puns about Tiki Lamps and "pet 'tards", just go full-out no subtlety anti-semitic (plus cursing/the f-word of course)"?
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 3:47am
As for Ilhan's "worst trolling", an interesting victim of 9/11 shares how the event's been co-opted and trivialized even as similar events tak place but are quickly forgotten. Sandy Hook parents were just "fakes", while 9/11 is sacrosanct. Parkland? Them kids...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/15/ilhan-omar-9-11-co...
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 3:56am
Again, I just agree with David Frum, no need to get into all of that. People's feelings about 9/11 aren't easily going to be changed by now, whatever they are. Same with I-P. You can get into that on blogs if you like, I am a First Amendment purist after all. If you want enough votes for a winning majority, different story.
Or you could watch what Nancy Pelosi said on 60 minutes in the first minute of this video (and you gotta to watch to get the tone of voice; just reading a transcript won't give you her message accurately):
She knows that this is getting stuck in the Trump trap of childish trolling behavior and the Dems need to look like adults. The majority is right in there in the polls for the taking-60% against Trump like behavior. All you got to do is not behave like him. Why look a gift horse in the mouth by going down to his level? What I admire the most about her new learned demeanor is that she no longer falls for the troll bait but always looks like the grownup compared to Trump. I.E. no we are not going to talk about your nonsense emotional culture wars distraction of the day and no we are not going to feed you culture wars memes to troll about and distract with. She learned from hard experience . Remember she used to be enemy #1 of the troll nut cases not so long ago, a distraction herself. She's got eyes on the prize now.
Edit to add: the word to remember with is inflammatory. As in: inflame the emotional knee jerk reactions. (I don't know why I have such a hard time remembering it, we used to have a separate section on the forum where I was a moderator called Flame Wars where people knew they could insult other's sensibilities to the max if they wanted.) Omar doesn't seem to do it intentionally, it is like a clueless naivete of using terminology from a little closed tribe that is not considered inflammatory in private but is inflammatory in the big wide real world. GOP experts look for that, they seize on it and pound on labeling the opposition with it. It sticks with just enough voters especially if pounded this early on.
by artappraiser on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 4:43am
The Republican attack on Omar is predictable. Omar is a Muslim, black, and a woman. She is the perfect target for the Republican base.
Republicans put Omar’s life at risk. She has to be defended.
Hate crimes spike when Trump holds rallies.
https://www.vox.com/2019/3/24/18279807/trump-hate-crimes-study-white-nationalism
The United States is now the fifth most dangerous place in the world for reporters to work. Trump loves criticizing the press.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/04/15/us-was-added-list-most-dangerous-countries-journalists-today-some-american-reporters-will-be-honored-with-pulitzer-prizes/?utm_term=.aab8e25f1d67
Omar is not the problem. She is the one who is at risk.
Edit to add:
It is interesting to note that Frum’s article was part of a project supported by Charles Koch. (See the funding acknowledgment in the footnote to the article.
David Frum wrote a lazy column and some people fell for the premise.
https://splinternews.com/fravid-dum-1834046590
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 8:15am
The Guardian
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 4:42pm
How does this change anything? Primary season hasn’t even begun and Trump voters are cult members and they would never vote for Weld or anyone normal like him.
by tmccarthy0 on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 8:06am
David Frum helped America fall into the Iraq War trap. He was GWB speech writer who coined the "axis of evil" line in GWB SOU speech in 2002.
The speech and the linking of Iraq with North Korea, followed by "regime change" in Iraq, not only greased the skids for the invasion of Iraq, but caused NK to kick out the video cameras and the international inspectors from NK nuclear facilities. A few years later NK detonated its first nucelar weapon.
That Frum is still given a cushy job at Atlantic is testimony to the insular bubble of the inside the beltway corporate media, where, no matter how wrong or how much damage you have done, you will never be held accountable, will always have a job, and the disasters you supported will be no hindrance to your well reimbursed media career.
by NCD on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 10:37am
Why Trump Won’t Stop Talking About Ilhan Omar
The president is following a Republican playbook that is now nearly two decades old.
By Jamelle Bouie @ NYTimes.com, Opinion Columnist, April 16, 2019
From bio link: Politics, history and culture. Based in Charlottesville, Va., and Washington, Jamelle Bouie became a New York Times Opinion columnist in 2019. Before that he was the chief political correspondent for Slate magazine. Mr. Bouie, who is a political analyst for CBS News, has been a staff writer at The Daily Beast and has held fellowships at The American Prospect and The Nation magazine. You can follow him on Twitter. He is also a photographer. To see his photos, follow him on Instagram.
by artappraiser on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 6:52pm
Trump is a master at diversion. It boosts the Republican base. Republicans are racists and bigots. People who are now racists and bigots would at least criticize his words on minorities and immigrants.
Rational people realize that Omar’s words were taken out of context. The Republican base approved of Trump’s Muslim ban. They have no problem with Trump’s statement that he saw Muslims rejoicing after the Twin Towers fell. Some on the Right are falsely saying that the cathedral at Notre Dame was attacked by Muslims. They turned a blind eye when Barack Obama was said to be a Muslim. The rot was already in the Republican Party before Trump showed up to fertilize the ground.
Masha Gesson studies authoritarian states. Trump is an authoritarian. His attack on Omar is predictable.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-dangerous-bullying-of-...
The only patriotic response is to defend those under attack. Trump and his supporters are salivating over the danger Omar faces because of their words
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 8:10pm
You see victimhood. I see incompetence. I expect more savvy from politicians against their antagonists. I don't feel sorry for any politician. I do feel sorry for private citizens who are smeared. But politicians, they asked for votes and they asked for the job and they asked to be in the hardball game of politics. Actually, I especially don't like the idea that the salaries of incompetents are paid with tax money. Smart politicians have been the targets of Trump and handled it well and even to their benefit because frankly: he's not that smart. She's not a poor baby private citizen anymore, she's a U.S. Congressperson and a member of the Democratic caucus. She presented herself as being capable of handling that. If she can't handle speaking her version of her "truth to power" that doesn't jive with everyone in her party, she should have let someone who can.
How come I never saw you complain about poor Bernie Sanders being picked on by Trump, Fox News, the right wingers?
Again: she is not a baby, she's a U.S. Congressperson.
And if she doesn't like the amount of support she is getting from her Democratic colleagues, maybe she belongs as an Independent like Bernie was. And take the heat for it like he did.
Edit to add: and if she saw herself as representing Muslim-Americans in Congress, if I was one, I would judge her as doing a poor job so far. I would expect more savvy.
by artappraiser on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 8:54pm
I see a person who is knowledgeable about authoritarian governments issuing a warning. Bessel did not notice death threats increasing after Trump went after Sanders. Pelosi, Gessen, etc do see something different happening with Omar that did not happen with Sanders.
Hate crimes increase after Trump rallies. Trump targets Maxine Waters, she gets death threats. Ditto with Omar. You see pity olympics. Ordinary citizens might think that if people are willing to go after politicians, they have no problems attacking regular citizens. Martin Luther King Jr. was killed to send a message to all black people.
You have a different point of view than Muslim activist
s who criticize Democrats who do not support Omar
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/muslim-voters-wont-forget-which-democrats-had-ilhan-omars-back_n_5cb5fd9ee4b082aab08d21c5
Omar has no obligation to leave the Democratic Party. She is a Democrat and seeks to make change from within. She is in the tradition of Fannie Lou Hamer and the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party.
When faced with an authoritarian, as Gesson notes, the last thing you want is appeasement. You cannot compromise with authoritarians. Societies that were silent succumbed to the authoritarians.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 04/16/2019 - 9:25pm