Not everyone, however, was convinced that Flint’s water crisis had much to do with lower reading levels. Mother Jonescolumnist Kevin Drum, wrote that “a modest increase in lead ingestion simply shouldn’t have that big an effect.” Lead, he wrote, “primarily affects 1-5 year-olds. These are 8-year-olds. A smallish increase in lead levels simply wouldn’t have that big or that immediate an effect on 8-year-olds.” He added that if lead did cause the decline in reading proficiency, “then reading proficiency should have increased after 2016, when the lead was removed. It didn’t. It kept dropping, and so did scores throughout Michigan.”
But Drum’s analysis is based on a misunderstanding of how lead poisoning works, and the status of Flint’s water. Lead has not been “removed” from the city’s water system: State test results released Tuesday found that five out of nine schools in Flint had at least one test that exceeded the federal threshold for lead this year. In one elementary school, 14 of 93 tests registered lead levels of 15 parts per billion or more, and two sites registered more than 100 parts per billion. An Associated Press report last month showed that, in the waning months of 2017, four schools and care facilities in Flint had elevated levels of lead in their water.
Even if lead was removed in 2016, the effects of lead on a child’s brain wouldn’t have vanished, said Dr. Philip Landrigan, a pediatrician and the dean for global health at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. Landrigan is a global expert on lead, one of the first scientists to show how lead causes brain damage in children. “Even the very lowest levels of exposure, we know that lead erodes a child’s IQ, shortens attention span, and disrupts their behavior,” he said. “We know when we do follow-up studies that children exposed when they were kids are more likely to be dyslexic, have behavioral problems, and get in trouble with the law. There’s no question about that.”
Drum is incorrect. What is true is that nailing down cause and effect in a population is difficult to prove.
Edit to add:
The Gómez study fails to take into account the actions that citizens of Flint too to avoid poisoning
It also seems likely that, while lead blood levels for Flint’s residents were relatively lower than might initially be expected, the poisoning of the city was avoided because of residents simply refusing to consume the water. According to this position: there most certainly was a crisis of water poisoning in Flint, but the worst effects of that crisis were avoided because city residents were vigilant in protecting themselves from toxified water that was forced on them by the state. There is anecdotal and statistical evidence to reinforce this assessment. News reporting has made it perfectly clear that residents of the city have avoided consuming the water due to perceived health risks. Furthermore, one 2018 survey of 2,000 Flint residents finds that they have been “using bottled water not just to drink but for everything from bathing to flushing their toilets.” The survey found that the average respondent was using 14.7 cases of bottled water a week, while households with pregnant women and children younger than six “used more – an average of 19.3 cases per week.” Survey findings also reinforce the notion that community distrust of the water quality is widespread. As the Detroit Free Press reported, one 2016 poll of Flint residents found that 70 percent of the city did not trust “government assurances that filtered water is safe to drink,” which should not be surprising considering water samples found that lead levels still exceeded maximum federal thresholds in 2016
In a news release Tuesday, the DEQ says that in addition to 97.2 percent of tests having less 15 ppb or less of lead, 96.2 percent were at or below 10 ppb, 92.6 percent were at or below 5 ppb -- the standard for bottled water, and 66.7 percent of tests showed no lead.
Of course since most of the elementary kids are 1) not as susceptible to lead damage as pre-schoolers, this is less of a concern, 2) the kids seem to be drinking bottled water anyway, so it really is about how to return to normal city water when safe?
BYW, them using bottled water to flush toilets sounds freaky and the product of hype and other bad info - no?
Also, the Counterpunch reliance on "scare quotes" and trying to condemn all of history at once makes it hard to read.
I don't see the Flint story as hysteria. I see a mayor responding to a physician noting increasing lead levels in her patients. The EPA graph shows an upward trend. This is followed by a decline that may have been related to citizens switching to bottled water.
How should the mayor respond? There is no safe level of lead, so should she tell her citizens that the levels were good enough for their parents and grandparents?
Except Kevin Drum is noting that yes, there are manageable levels of lead for post-preschoolers, that this "there are no safe levels" feeds the hysteria. Sure, keep up bottled water (except for flushing toilets), improve filtering and controlling runoff, do what can be done. And cool down the panic. There are people flying off the handle for every challenge we face. Only a few require pulling hair out for.
As noted in the NIH link above, low lead levels pose risk pose a threat to adults and pregnant women. The methods required to measure very low lead levels are expensive. To really assess the risk, we need longitudinal studies on the impact of low lead levels.
The so-called Flint "hysteria" is exactly what got other cities to reassess their actions on lead levels.
I read your title as suggesting that crazy Lefties inflated the.danger in Flint. There has been a dramatic decrease in blood lead levels because crazy Lefties found that lead paint was a danger. Crazy Lefties also sought to remove lead from gasoline. Crazy Lefties pointed out the lead levels in Flint were going up.
The so-called histrionics began with this
A story of environmental injustice and bad decision making, the water crisis in Flint, Michigan, began in 2014, when the city switched its drinking water supply from Detroit’s system to the Flint River in a cost-saving move. Inadequate treatment and testing of the water resulted in a series of major water quality and health issues for Flint residents—issues that were chronically ignored, overlooked, and discounted by government officials even as complaints mounted that the foul-smelling, discolored, and off-tasting water piped into Flint homes for 18 months was causing skin rashes, hair loss, and itchy skin. The Michigan Civil Rights Commission, a state-established body, concluded that the poor governmental response to the Flint crisis was a “result of systemic racism.”
Later studies would reveal that the contaminated water was also contributing to a doubling—and in some cases, tripling—of the incidence of elevated blood lead levels in the city’s children, imperiling the health of its youngest generation. It was ultimately the determined, relentless efforts of the Flint community—with the support of doctors, scientists, journalists, and citizen activists—that shined a light on the city’s severe mismanagement of its drinking water and forced a reckoning over how such a scandal could have been allowed to happen.
The so-called histrionics were a rational response to an observed increased in lead levels. A mayor who did not raise an alarm would be a fool. Hopefully, future studies will clarify how much long term harm has been done to the intellectual function of the citizens of Flints. Studies will also assess whether adults will suffer cardiac or renal disease related to lead exposure. I will trust subsequent studies rather than put full trust in one study.
Buried in the Gómez paper
The new study supports previously reported data showing that corrective measures, including switching back the city’s water source and instructing residents to use filtered water for drinking and cooking, made significant progress in children’s blood lead levels.
And
Authors of the study note several limitations. The data likely account for about half of Flint children during the time frame, and no child young enough to be exposed to lead through water in formula was tested. The study also was not designed to determine what source of lead was responsible for children’s blood lead levels.
Finally,, the impact of the so-called hysteria
“The Flint story has raised national awareness of the important public health issue of lead exposure of young children. We are seeing health professionals across the nation evaluate potential lead exposure in their own communities,” Gomez says.
“Public health officials, legislators and clinicians should continue efforts and allocate resources to further decrease environmental lead exposure to children in all communities at risk.”
There was no poisoning of children in Flint. A poison is defined as a substance that can cause harm when inhaled or ingested. We will use another term for what happened to black children in Flint. The children and citizens of Flint simply were exposed to lead..The current lead levels in Flint are high, but they are lower than they were ten years ago, Blacks should celebrate that they are less poisoned exposed. The graphs of blood lead levels look great. Practicing physicians in Flint raise concerns when the lead levels in the blood of black children increase. Gómez says that the treating physicians should relax because despite imbibing poisoned exposed water, the blood lead levels were worse ten years ago. The state government did what Gómez suggested after the fact. The Governor and the director of the state health department did not get all histrionic and shit, they relaxed because things were not as bad as they were ten years ago. Economically stressed black people are purchasing bottled water to save themselves. The problem is solved. Nothing to see here.
The real problem is that poor children, who the government of Michigan doesn't give a crap about when they develop rashes, are going to feel stigmatized because people are overreacting to increased lead levels. Before the focus on lead, the black children of Flint would have never known that no one was coming to their rescue. It's just a little lead. Everything was fine before the lead hysteria.
Damn those Lefties for making such a fuss. Then dig the knife in deeper by saying that there is no safe level of lead, except according to the well known toxicologist, Kevin Drum.
Virginia Tech, a university of over 34,000 students, undergraduate and postgraduate, did a Flint study in one household connected to city water, over a period of time:
"...drinking water samples all had extremely high lead levels between 200 ppb to 13,200 ppb (Figure 2). Water containing more than 5,000 ppb of lead, exceeds criteria that classifies water as a hazardous waste. The US EPA action level for lead is 15 ppb and the World Health Organization (WHO) maximum lead level is 10 ppb."
Drum has no link for where he got the data for his "author's calculations" in his "Lead Poisoning in Flint" graph.
If you look up lead blood levels at the Michigan Department of HHS there are statewide tables of data BY COUNTY not by city. Flint in in Genesee County MI, with a population of 407,000, Flint 94,000.
Where did he get Michigan Dept. HHS data for Flint that he used to :create his 'authors" chart?
You can't take county data and call it city data. Where's his link to the data for his little Flint graph?
If you look for it, and when you go to the Michigan HHS page it has a disclaimer on the data:
Surveillance data are not representative of the whole population.
Specifically, tests were done on under 6 yrs, by county, about 6,500 were tested yearly in the entire country for lead.
Since the county has 4 times the population of Flint, 75% of the results are not for Flint children. The data are skewed towards the county.
The uptick in 2015 might be 4 times that on the graph Drum 'created', as Flint is only 1/4 of the children tested in the county.
Additionally, the dataset disclaimer says it "is not representative of the entire population", meaning isolated populations could be higher or lower.
Drum's article is a sloppy job, from the Virginia Tech data I mentioned, some isolated or not so isolated families in Flint should have, and were justified, if they panicked.
The mayor is shown off-color water and rising lead levels. Are you saying that she should not have raised an alarm? Do you agree with the slow response by the Governor and state health department?
The lead levels in water in Flint decreased because the "hysterical" mayor raised the alarm and pipelines were replaced.
Apparently, other cities need hysterical mayors to get action to lower lead levels.
The lead levels were headed down then as the EPA graph shows, the levels of lead in Flint blood levels rose. The mayor was shown rising blood levels and discolored water.
Apparently you can't parse the difference between different levels of response, and know how to calm people down at different stages of handling an emergency, preferring instead to make it a permanent crisis to show what shits America is re: race or whatever your specific agenda is. If lead levels are way too high, call it out & improve the situation. If lead levels are moving back towards acceptable (and yes, Virginia, there is such a thing), announce it so people can stress about more pressing concerns. Instead, the Left likes these sky will be falling forever scenarios tied to global warming, fracking, war, old rich white dudes, free trade, etc. Right now the far left is doing what it can to see about losing an easy-to-win election by again asking for purity tests on medicare-for-all (once it was the magic words "single payer"), when Democrats have been getting pounded on the issue since 2010. But then these advocates aren't really Democrats half the time, so that part doesn't really bother them. But you now what? If blacks don't think anything was done to help lead in Flint, why would the vote for Democrats, much less Republicans? why wouldn't they just give up, or go back to the Black Panthers, basically the US version of Hezbollah in a "extrajudicial way of handlng issues that matter to people"? Because if things don't change, if racism in America is the same now as in 1965 as in 1910 as in 1865, then why should anyone trust anything from the system whatsoever, just give up, riot, something.
i.e. whaddabout radon being ignored for "lead poisoning":
And, maybe, think about what could change when so many housing authorities nationwide show zero desire to spend a few bucks to test their units to help keep tenants safe.
P.R. is operative not just with politicians but with non-profit organizations for change and issues in general too. That is actually what many lobbyists do for a living: try to make sure the public thinks something is the most important issue to work on. (Comes to mind back in the old days, Jerry Lewis telethon tried to make sure everyone thought muscular dystrophy was the one disease we could win, only if....)
I couldn't finish your rant. The mayor was presented with an increase in lead levels in real time. Tainted pipelines were replaced . People avoided use of Flint water. Lead levels fell.
The children of Flint are stigmatized. The government of Michigan told the black children of Flint that the government did not give a crap about their lives. Pipelines were only changed after the mayor's alarm got outside forces to put pressure on the government of Michigan.
Measuring very low levels of lead is expensive. We have no long term data on the harm done by long term exposure to lead
The EPA warned that lead levels were high, the government of Michigan denied the truth of the report
"The tests were bad enough that [in July 2015], they should have informed the public about the broad lead risk, but that’s not what happened. Instead, state and city officials kept telling residents there was no lead problem in Flint’s water; that this EPA report was wrong; that the report was written by a 'rogue employee.'"
The lead levels in Flint were 20 ppb initially
As a city, Flint’s lead levels have tested well below the federal action level of 15 parts per billion since 2017. The latest test results from January 2018 found four parts per billion in the 90th percentile of the highest risk homes. For comparison, at the height of the crisis, those homes were testing at 20 parts per billion on average.
The Flint alarm resulted in the state finding high lead levels in other cities
Until the replacement work is finished, people have been advised to continue using water filters provided by the government. However, that recommendation is not unique to Flint. The EPA recommends that water filters be used in homes that could have lead lines, which applies to many U.S. cities. Learn how to find out if your home has lead lines here.
We're a month from 2020. Talking about Flint as if it's still 2014-5 was part of my "rant".
The situation on the ground has changed. I'm not complaining about elected & activists responding to a crisis.
I'm suggesting traumatizing the public *after* the crisis has largely passed, or has entered a very different stage, is a bad thing. Politicizing this after-the-fact on the backs of people who have enough challenges.
But go ahead, keep misreading what I say - it's become a little art of yours.
My random thoughts on what you are running into here: It's the glamour of the victimization, your argument was taking the victimization down a notch. The appeal always is: the romantic hero-ization of victimization and protest against it, that must never die. Keep despair and anger about it alive. It's important to fight fight fight against "the man," keeps the blood flowing, makes life worth living?
I like the vilifying of people who with great effort brought us fossil fuels so we could civilize and find ourselves at a point where we need to substitute. If course if we stuck with animal husbandry or other pre-industrial trappings, we'd be dying at 45 , shoveling shit, and literally watching wheat grow.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there's no safe level of lead in children's blood and says that amounts as low as 5 parts per billion require medical intervention. Exposure to lead can cause developmental delays and learning difficulties in children, as well as symptoms including weight loss, irritability or even seizures.
There is no safe level of lead. The EPA is taking action.
Lead pipes that carry water from local treatment facilities to residents' homes and other buildings can be treated to prevent exposure to lead. But in some cases water, like in Flint, improperly treated water can corrode the pipes and lead can leach into drinking water. Experts and groups like the American Waterworks Association have said that given the high risks from lead exposure, cities and states should take steps to completely remove lead pipes to eliminate the risk of exposure completely and that only partially removing lead service lines actually risks releasing more lead.
This is the first overhaul of the Lead and Copper Rule in more than 20 years, according to the EPA, and would require drinking water systems around the country to be more proactive in identifying lead water lines in the city, replacing those service lines and treating water to prevent residents from being exposed.
When he first came into office, Wheeler said he was concerned a requirement to remove lead service lines could take 20 to 30 years and that poorer communities would lag behind affluent communities that might be able to replace their lines immediately.
"What we're doing is requiring water systems to update their publicly available inventory of where the lead service lines are and we're requiring the water systems to find and fix the sources of lead, particularly when a sample in a home exceeds the 15 parts per billion," he said.
The rule also requires that schools and day care facilities be tested after the agency's internal watchdog found that less than half of school districts check drinking water for lead.
They say they're doing it when it's 15 parts per billion - aren't you going to complain? that's insufficient, right?
If they're not even checking levels, then obviously they don't know.
Look at the map - how many of those problem sites will the EPA handle in 5 years? Even if Hillary were president, or if Democrats took the Senate, how fast would this stuff happen?
Let's get real - this is all a slow painful & expensive process:
A 2016 EPA document found it could cost from $2,500 to $8,000 to replace a single line, estimating it would cost between $16 billion to $80 billion to immediately replace all the lead lines in the country. EPA provides billions of dollars in grants to improve drinking water infrastructure every year but cost will still likely be a concern for homeowners with lead service lines or smaller communities.
An EPA official said they expect the new rule to cost water systems and states $131 million to $270 million a year.
Do you see a small discrepancy between those two? This new EPA rule is tackling maybe 1/200th of the fix-it-all cost, just a nibble, enough to make enough people happy. Is it enough to make a difference? idunno, with Team Trump I'm skeptical, but I know we're not gonna spend $80 billion.
And is Flint still among the most critical, or have efforts the last 4 years jumped it ahead of hundreds of other comunities with water & lead problems?
Dunno, what's your time, budget, evaluation of critical danger vs competing crises, doability/chance for success...
BTW, the CDC knew vaping deaths were caused by Vitamin E Acetate back in September from the FDA, but piddlefucked around for 2 months with "we don't know" and "maybe all vaping is harmful - it has nicotine, doesn't it?" so that vaping takes a hit, becoming illegal in places like India and China even though tens/hundreds of millions die from regular cigarette smoke (big business if you can get it)
So I'm not very convinced by the "every life is sacred" bullshit - life is cheap and on the chopping block every single day. The same money that goes to Flint could go to Africa and save 1000 times the lives, or be spent by the DoD in a week without ever being noticed or used for some missile system to keep Russia out of Iraq or protect Kurds from Turkey or Rohinga from Burmese. Brutal tradeoffs all the time.
Lead exposure is a problem. There is no safe level of lead. Flint raised an alarm. Flint received attention. Give credit to the activists and the mayor. Activists in other cities can use Flint as inspiration. Flint is lucky that you had no power to effect their lives.
The ridiculous argument that the children of Flint are being stigmatized is just that, ridiculous. The children of Flint were told that their lives didn't matter by the state government via an overseer, the state health department, and the Governor. They already know that every life isn't scared.
Regarding the FDA Anderson-cigarettes
The story starts in September 2008, during the administration of President George W. Bush. The FDA detained early batches of e-cigarettes on the grounds that they appeared to be unapproved medical devices designed to deliver the drug nicotine.
The manufacturers quickly took the agency to court, arguing that their products were neither devices nor drugs. Instead, they claimed that e-cigarettes were most akin to traditional cigarettes, which the Supreme Court had recently said the FDA could not regulate without new legislation from Congress. The companies sought an injunction against the FDA on the grounds that the agency was causing them immediate and irreversible economic harm.
The FDA’s response was, in essence, that e-cigarettes barely resemble cigarettes and look a lot more like nicotine inhalers, which are regulated devices that contain drugs. As the case was pending, FDA released early data revealing the presence of harmful chemicals in e-cigarettes. The agency also held a press conference and warned the public of the risks of addiction and lung injury.
I remember this moment well because at the time I served as principal deputy commissioner of the FDA. “We’re concerned about them because of what we know is in them and what we don’t know about how they affect the human body,” I told The New York Times.
The FDA’s efforts didn’t help. District Court Judge Richard Leon issued a restraining order against the FDA to prevent “irreparable” harm to the e-cigarette industry. Criticizing the agency for “its tenacious drive to maximize its regulatory power,” Leon wrote, “I am not convinced that the threat to the public interest in general or to third parties in particular is as great as FDA suggests.”
Just like the Flint lead poisoning, some labeled the CDC as being alarmist.
After analyzing fluid from the lungs of patients in the recent vaping-disease epidemic, the Centers for Disease Control reported last week that every victim had traces of an additive used in marijuana vaping but never used in nicotine vaping. That should not come as a surprise, because there was never any evidence or suggestion that nicotine e-cigarettes such as Juul makes had caused any harm to their users. But the CDC had pretended otherwise in August, warning people not to use any kind of e-cigarette.
The CDC’s warning, amplified by alarmist media coverage, confused the public about the risk of vaping THC—the active chemical in marijuana—while discouraging smokers from switching to a safer source of nicotine. A national survey in September found that 58 percent of American adults mistakenly believed that the new epidemic was related to e-cigarettes like Juul, and that only 22 percent believed e-cigarettes were healthier than tobacco cigarettes. In reality, researchers have so far failed to find any long-term harm from nicotine vaping, and British public-health authorities have declared e-cigarettes at least 95 percent safer than tobacco cigarettes.
The CDC’s scare, coupled with a subsequent announcement that the Food and Drug Administration planned to ban the flavors used by more than 80 percent of adult vapers, amounted to welcome news for the declining tobacco industry. Cigarette sales had been plummeting (along with smoking rates among adults and young people) since Juul’s rise to popularity three years ago. But after the CDC’s and FDA’s actions, the Wall Street Journal reported, tobacco-industry analysts said that they expected cigarette sales to improve and were already seeing signs of that trend.
So 39 died from flavored vaping, and CDC couldn't be bothered to broadcast loud and clear the culprit, leading to vaping shutdown calls for months. "Just like the Flint lead poisoning, some labeled the CDC as being alarmist" - well, I didn't say the Flint crisis was alarmist the first week - but after a few years, even flushing with bottled water?. Meanwhile, in the serious world
Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day. On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.
So the CDC is overplaying a health hazard that killed 39 in two months, letting an epidemic rebound that kills 39,000 every month, 2000x as much. You go, buddy - you've got it all figured out.
Cigarettes are known toxins with warning labels. They remain legal in the United States. The are multiple warnings not to smoke. The CDC can't ban cigarettes, that requires Congressional action.
The initial problem with e-cigarettes was noted in June. Warnings came in August. In September, Trump talked about a federal ban on e-cigarettes, then punked out.
The CDC announced the culprit, once they ruled other possibilities. Many states issued valuing bans.
Fix what can be fixed . Saving 39 is a good thing. Wonderful. Doesn't necessarily stop you from also saving 39,000. If if does , sure do the rational thing. But at least consider whether you can go the whole hog and save 39,039.
Here's the evidence that the FDA knew exactly what was causing the vaping-related illnesses by Sept. 5 and informed state officials at that time. As you say, the CDC pretended for months that the FDA didn't really know what it was doing and was jumping to conclusions, allowing for alarmist speculation and propaganda to develop and inspire proposed vaping bans allover the place before they finally announced: oh, by the way, the FDA was correct, but we thought a period of fear and paranoia inspiring all kinds of nanny state suggestions would be a good thing (themselves whispered to follow this program by a variety of lobbyists of the Puritan jihadi type? The mystery for me: how come such jihadis haven't given equal time to smoking marijuana and injesting THC?)
I am reminded of how nearly every kid's tonsils were yanked out in the 1950's based on sure medical conventional wisdom. Now we know that tonsils are an important part of the immune system. Kids who had their tonsils out were famously alllowed to eat ice cream. This made kids open to the procedure. Ah but dairy....And how we drove to the Wisconsin state line in the 60's to buy authentic color margarine (which was not allowed to be sold because the dairy farmers wanted butter to be your only yellow choice in Wisconsin.) We did this to save my father from having a heart attack, which butter supposedly caused. Turns out the dairy farmers were the ones concerned for his health? P.S. Guess what, the latest: pediatricians agree children under 5 should have only breast milk and/or whole cow's milk and water, ruling out other drinks; other liquids may harm their development. Those fruit juices GenX and millennials raised on? Toxic, I guess. And adults should reconsider full fat dairy, too.
Edit to add pre-emptive, don't bother I'll do it myself: Ok, boomer.
Now there are some concerns that higher concentrations of nicotine, esp. as added by Juul brand, much higher than normal cigs, are causing some new psychotropic reactions - don't have link handy/lazy, so not head-in-sand about new possible dangers, but don't like CDC playing scare politics.
There is no federal ban on vaping products. In fact the industry has fought regulation. Juul's flavored cigarettes and social media campaign are not allowed in the UK
Scientists believe that the main reason that the teenage vaping crisis has been more prevalent in the US than in the UK or Europe is because of a lack of regulation around both the marketplace and advertising. So far, Juul have been able to sell their products without FDA approval regarding their safety, while e-cigarette manufacturers have been allowed to target younger age groups through social media platforms and YouTube, as well as conducting large-scale campaigns through TV, radio and billboards.
There are standardised procedures for helping people quit smoking – but no one knows if they’ll work for vaping
“What was unique about Juul was the social marketing campaign which was really attractive to kids, and the lack of regulatory oversight,” says Judith Prochaska, associate professor of medicine at the Prevention Research Center of Stanford University, California. “We haven’t had this kind of advertising for tobacco since the 1970s. The FDA has been very hands-off with the e-cigarette marketplace, and while retailers are not supposed to sell these products to kids under 18, there’s a lot of evidence to show that’s not upheld. It was the perfect storm.”
Over the past year, Juul has closed down its social media accounts and the FDA has now demanded it submit safety and efficacy data on vaping products by spring next year. However, new investigations have revealed that the company is lobbying for stronger and more addictive products to be sold in the UK – where, because of EU regulations, vapes currently cannot have a higher nicotine concentration than 2% – following Brexit, as well as a lift on advertising restrictions.
CDC workers are dedicated government workers. Their purpose is not to kill your buzz
Here is the data early in the epidemic
What is already known about this topic?
Lung injury associated with e-cigarette use, or vaping, has recently been reported in most states. CDC, the Food and Drug Administration, and others are investigating this outbreak.
What is added by this report?
Among 805 cases reported as of September 24, 2019, 69% were in males; 62% of patients were aged 18–34 years. Among patients with data on substances used in e-cigarettes, or vaping products, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)-containing product use was reported by 76.9% (36.0% reported exclusive THC-product use); 56.8% reported nicotine-containing product use (16.0% reported exclusive nicotine-product use).
What are the implications for public health practice?
The cause of the outbreak is unknown. While this investigation is ongoing, CDC recommends that persons consider refraining from using e-cigarette, or vaping, products, particularly those containing THC
RM, you are using already out of date and revises information from the CDC. The CDC reported last month that the likely culprit causing these vaping injuries is vitamin E acetate added to some vaping mixes.This causal link was reported a couple months before the CDC came to their conclusion.
by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 11:54pm
Maybe I should have a statement like early data to show that they were making an advisory based on early data. They were not nitwits, they were acting on available data.
Climate scientists constantly update their hurricane projections based on new information
In the past cardiologists recommended stents for angina. With newer medications, stents are no longer the front line of treatment for angina.
The CDC made a statement based on the early information, then they focused in on a culprit.
RM. I don't know why the CDC seemed to ignore the early reported science on the effects of high temperature on vitamin D and point their finger at THC and nicotine, neither of which had ever been shown to produce the dangerous changes from high heat seen in vitamin E.It's probable that their research scientists did know about vitamin E but their Administrative State managers saw an opportunity for a little social engineering. Their devious behavior was exposed in the Flint lead crisis when they ignored early warnings from qualified researchers and refused to issue. avoid drinking contaminated water warnings.. Fortunately that unexplained lax behavior didn't cause irreparable harm as most affected households had already stopped drinking the water.
I see you also know little or nothing about angina treatment. I rely on 150 year old nitrate medication for short term relief from angina pain while waiting for angioplasty and stents that offer years of uninterrupted relief.
by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 3:25pm
The CDC was using science, not guess work to hone in on a source
Rebarding your angioplasty
Approximately 20-40% of patients have recurrent or persistent angina after percutaneous coronary intervention (PCI). Potential mechanisms include recurrent ischemic lesion due to stent thrombosis, in-stent restenosis, residual diffuse disease, or myocardial bridging. With newer-generation stents, rates of stent thrombosis are <1% and rates of recurrent stenosis are about 5% at 1 year, but can vary based on clinical risk. Persistent angina due to coronary vasomotor disorders should also be considered. Significant constriction of epicardial coronary arteries post-PCI may be related to increased activation of rho-kinase pathways, which can increase vascular smooth muscle constriction. In addition, coronary microvascular dysfunction due to microvascular spasm and impaired microvascular dilation may also mediate recurrent angina post-PCI.
Regarding cardiac events after optimal drug therapy versus stents
A federally funded, international study found no evidence that patients with severe but stable heart disease who underwent heart procedures experienced lower rates of major, disease-related events compared to those treated with medications and lifestyle changes alone.
Presented November 16 at the American Heart Association's Scientific Sessions 2019, the study found that patients that underwent routine, invasive procedures – like stent implants or bypass surgery – when compared with patients that received only medications (e.g. aspirin, statins) and lifestyle advice, saw no reduction in the rate of occurrence for a group of five events: cardiovascular death, heart attack, hospitalization for unstable angina, hospitalization for heart failure, or resuscitation after cardiac arrest
RM, five interesting study results none of which support your claim that medication is a better treatment for angina 'Pain' than are stents. I used aspirin to relieve angina but nearly died from a bleeding ulcer that required 11 transfusions .
Stents and bypass surgery are only required when there is complete or near complete blockage of arteries so comparing those patients with others who only need low dose aspirin and statins seems very odd. Neither of those drugs can open clogged arteries but they do thin the blood and reduce the chance of clotting.
by Peter (not verified) on Wed, 12/04/2019 - 12:27am
Post links to those studies.
Stents are not reserved for patients with complete occlusion. In fact many heart attacks are caused by rupture of plaques in vessels that have what on catheterization appear to be insignificant plaques. Google plaque rupture.
I gave you a link that mentioned a recent trail, the ISCHEMIA trial showing that endpoints like death, heart attacks, and heart failure was the same in patients treated medically and those treated with angioplasty.
The ORBITA trial of patients with infrequent angina also showed no different in outcomes between medication and angioplasty in adverse cardiac outcomes.
If you have new onset angina, angina that increases in fluency, or occurs with less and less activity, this is unstable angina. Cardiologists would say get thee to an angioplasty suite or a bypass table. If your angina is infrequent and predictable, you may opt to try medications.
You say that your entire blood volume had to be replaced to to aspirin aggravating an ulcer. I doubt that you would be considered a candidate for medical treatment alone. Stenting appears to make more sense. I would note that in the ISCHEMIA trial I linked to said 50% of the patients undergoing angioplasty still had angina in the first year. What I have been told is that angioplasty decreases the frequency of angina, but is not always a cure.
Some of the descriptions by the afflicted remind me of caffeine overdose as experienced by moi taking too much No-Doz to do an all nighter as a clueless freshman in college who had not learned to use coffee yet. (Then there was the coffee at Saint Ambroeus restaurant in Manhattan in the late 80's, to this day swear it was spiked with amphetatmines that lasted 24 hrs.)
Yeah, if stimulants are added to a product beyond the normal, I'm all for the FDA checking that they are labeled correctly as to dose. That said, I don't think they need to get into regulating the amount of detergent in Tide Pods in case people start ingesting them. If Juul put overdose level of nicotine in some products without labeling correctly, they deserve to suffer the consequences in the market.
Back to the big picture, what just happened: teenagers/children buy black market products that can't be regulated by any means.
Rising sea levels will threaten three times more people in the next 30 years than previously thought, according to the latest scientific estimates. Among the hundreds of millions of people worldwide facing the threat are the 400 residents of Newtok, Alaska. Rising river and eroding land is pushing the entire community to relocate, despite emotional and logistical hurdles. Stephanie Sy reports.
Art, You should send St. Greta the climate puppet up to cast her creepy gaze on those Inuits and lecture them about their sin for using gas guzzling snow machines to hunt tasty Polar Bears for dinner.
FYI The effective sea level around Alaska is actually falling as much as 32 inches in the last 60 years so the erosion causing this move is caused by falling sea level.Alaska is one of those places that the land is rising faster than the slowly rising sea.
by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 2:14pm
Well, so great, let's move the world's population to where there are rising tectonic plates? And Alaska has what, 750k population out of the world's 7.5 billion, 0.01%? But thanks for the useless misleading trivia.
"Millions of children around the world currently breathe air that may put them at risk of premature cognitive decline, and neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease." https://t.co/3GGshq5vkO
Art, a more inspirational headline would be, Billions of Children can now look forward to long productive lives now that extreme poverty, that maims and kills more children than any other cause, is being eliminated around the world.The early stage of industrialization and urbanization, while mostly positive, does produce some negative effects.
The picture above looks like LA in the 1950's and London was much much worse in the 1850's but as people develop their economies and become more affluent they demand and are willing to pay for cleaning up their environment.
Only Capitalism can produce the growth and generate the wealth and opportunity they need to both pull themselves out of poverty and live in a cleaner environment.
by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 1:13pm
The specific compare was a 5-year-old water crisi in Flint Vs other big problems to tackle, not whether progress is hopeless. Still, while critical poverty has greatly decreased at least percentage wise, total world population has skyrocketed - 50% gain since the Wall fell, now 7.5billiion, so polluted cities affect a lot more people - for example a Chinese city might be 20-30 million, not the 7-8 million of 70's LA. Electric cars et al will help a lot.
I view this type of messaging as a form of child abuse just as much of the messaging was during the Flint crisis. This imagery and rhetoric produces more Greta The Paranoid Marxist activist than Elon the the confident Futurist. Greta and her young admirers will probably never produce anything of real value that will be needed to face and overcome future challenges. including bringing some form of prosperity to the poor that will always be with us.
The fact that as world population doubled but extreme poverty numbers remained flat is an amazing accomplishment unrivaled in human history. and it happened mostly in the last 30 years.
China's cities pollution are mostly caused by unregulated coal power plants and many new coal power plants will be needed to charge those electric cars.along with the industrial pollution created from making them. They may be useful in reducing some pollution in highly congested areas but so would investing in modern advanced emissions controls on their coal plants and ICE fleets.
Another looming Green pollution problem is what to do with billions of solar panels when their 25 year life span requires they be replaced. There is no known economically viable recycling process. Then there is the effects of the massive stripmining for Lithium batteries and their reliance on Blood Cobalt from the DRC.
by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 5:38pm
Hmm, weren't we arguing? Yes, each "green" solution has waste issues to handle. China & India flat birthrate is great but doesn't mean their huge populations won't aff CT resources for a century. Yes, transitioning to Elon Musk vehicles and solar panels is a practical step to handling global warming, whereas Greta is asking us to do something... such as build more Gigafactories? The complaints about fracking ignored how it gave us freedom and saved money to push towards renewaboes. Next gen batteries will be solid state(?!?) so no cobalt prob... (how many cobalt deaths vs kids killed some way in oil production or gas pollution?)
We visualized the damaging, tiny particles that wreak havoc on human health. From the Bay Area to New Delhi, see how the world’s worst pollution compares with your local air.
Yo, da Bronx be slammin'. Who knew it was eco-friendly? New Delhi & Xi'an could use a bit of work. Looks like in China they continue to move the pollution on elsewhere, some other unlucky stiffs...
As in polluted, or raging Fort Apache style/brink of collapse? I figger it's all gentrified Starbucks, coffee & scooter turf wars and the like. Totally post-woketopian. Clean air, crooked cellphone data plans.
Art, why are you doubling down on this alarmist child abusing propaganda? You must understand that children's and adult's mental health is not improved by slanted reporting, misinformation and outright lies from the NY Slime.
THe first sentence of this polluted report is a big lie, particles of air pollution can't be held
'responsible' for anything but it implies that irresponsible people should be and even worse that industrial progress is deadly killing over 4 million people including helpless children annually.. This is why we see Greta and many others like her glaring at adults and screeching 'shame on you' ignorantly believing that Western Civilization and capitalism are plots to kill then all.
The Four Morons of the Apocalypse who produced this Slime report don't even hint that human progress based on fossil fuels, free market ideas and urbanization has already doubled the human lifespan only that some tiny percentage of already ill or weak people may have their lifespan reduced because of the pollution it produces. We can always do better and we will. The almost 10% of the world population still in rural extreme poverty who shit on the ground and pollute their drinking water causing widespread disease are the next target for progress. Once they urbanize they will have something as simple as clean water to wash their hands and live much healthier lives.
These Four Morons are required by their Warmist religion to parrot their cult belief that CAGW must be at least partially responsible for this crisis. They continue to repeat the debunked false narrative that wildfires that contribute to this particle pollution are caused by man made GW. They link to another bogus report that claims that this pollution is increasing in the US after declining under the glorious Obama regime because of the irresponsible actions of the dreaded Trump. This nitwit propaganda even makes the ludicrous claim that our increasing burning of natural gas, which produces nothing but H2O and CO2 is somehow also producing these evil particles of pollution.
The only useful information from this rubbish propaganda is the active display map showing the US has the best air quality in the world. This is despite the fact that we are constantly exposed to N African desert generated pollution and Asian natural and man made sources.
,
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 12/05/2019 - 2:54pm
My my my you are bloviating wildly at strawmen galore here. If you had spent any time on it, you'd have seen that the NYT team's work makes clear that U.S. cities mostly have some of the cleanest air around. Except when something temporary like the Paradise CA fires happen, and it was part of the exercise to make that kind of thing clear too, how wildly air quality can change with certain events.
says twice: see how the world’s worst pollution compares with your local air. Could they have been any clearer? Are you really that dense that we are going to believe what you say it is when we can just check it out for ourselves by clicking? It's more than clear you didn't bother to look at it but just presumed it would be liberal propaganda.
Comments
Regarding the Kevin Drum part of the discussion
https://newrepublic.com/article/147066/flints-water-crisis-damage-kids-brains
Drum is incorrect. What is true is that nailing down cause and effect in a population is difficult to prove.
Edit to add:
The Gómez study fails to take into account the actions that citizens of Flint too to avoid poisoning
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/07/25/erasing-flints-water-crisis-or-how-to-lie-with-statistics/
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 8:45am
https://www.epa.gov/americaschildrenenvironment/ace-biomonitoring-lead
Of course since most of the elementary kids are 1) not as susceptible to lead damage as pre-schoolers, this is less of a concern, 2) the kids seem to be drinking bottled water anyway, so it really is about how to return to normal city water when safe?
BYW, them using bottled water to flush toilets sounds freaky and the product of hype and other bad info - no?
Also, the Counterpunch reliance on "scare quotes" and trying to condemn all of history at once makes it hard to read.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 10:55am
The message on your link
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:17am
Fixed, thanks.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:22am
The citizens are drinking bottled water. Seems rational to me since there is no safe level of lead in the bloodstream.
It appears that lead poses a threat to adults as well as children Heart disease, renal disease, and cognitive decline occurs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1797860/
I don't see the Flint story as hysteria. I see a mayor responding to a physician noting increasing lead levels in her patients. The EPA graph shows an upward trend. This is followed by a decline that may have been related to citizens switching to bottled water.
How should the mayor respond? There is no safe level of lead, so should she tell her citizens that the levels were good enough for their parents and grandparents?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 12:50pm
Except Kevin Drum is noting that yes, there are manageable levels of lead for post-preschoolers, that this "there are no safe levels" feeds the hysteria. Sure, keep up bottled water (except for flushing toilets), improve filtering and controlling runoff, do what can be done. And cool down the panic. There are people flying off the handle for every challenge we face. Only a few require pulling hair out for.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 2:52pm
And Drum got his toxicology degree from where?
Edit to add:
As noted in the NIH link above, low lead levels pose risk pose a threat to adults and pregnant women. The methods required to measure very low lead levels are expensive. To really assess the risk, we need longitudinal studies on the impact of low lead levels.
The so-called Flint "hysteria" is exactly what got other cities to reassess their actions on lead levels.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 6:11pm
I read your title as suggesting that crazy Lefties inflated the.danger in Flint. There has been a dramatic decrease in blood lead levels because crazy Lefties found that lead paint was a danger. Crazy Lefties also sought to remove lead from gasoline. Crazy Lefties pointed out the lead levels in Flint were going up.
The so-called histrionics began with this
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/flint-water-crisis-everything-you-need-know
The so-called histrionics were a rational response to an observed increased in lead levels. A mayor who did not raise an alarm would be a fool. Hopefully, future studies will clarify how much long term harm has been done to the intellectual function of the citizens of Flints. Studies will also assess whether adults will suffer cardiac or renal disease related to lead exposure. I will trust subsequent studies rather than put full trust in one study.
Buried in the Gómez paper
And
Finally,, the impact of the so-called hysteria
https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/study-examines-blood-lead-levels-of-flint-children
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 8:45pm
Here is how Conservatives probably view this
There was no poisoning of children in Flint. A poison is defined as a substance that can cause harm when inhaled or ingested. We will use another term for what happened to black children in Flint. The children and citizens of Flint simply were exposed to lead..The current lead levels in Flint are high, but they are lower than they were ten years ago, Blacks should celebrate that they are less
poisonedexposed. The graphs of blood lead levels look great. Practicing physicians in Flint raise concerns when the lead levels in the blood of black children increase. Gómez says that the treating physicians should relax because despite imbibingpoisonedexposed water, the blood lead levels were worse ten years ago. The state government did what Gómez suggested after the fact. The Governor and the director of the state health department did not get all histrionic and shit, they relaxed because things were not as bad as they were ten years ago. Economically stressed black people are purchasing bottled water to save themselves. The problem is solved. Nothing to see here.The real problem is that poor children, who the government of Michigan doesn't give a crap about when they develop rashes, are going to feel stigmatized because people are overreacting to increased lead levels. Before the focus on lead, the black children of Flint would have never known that no one was coming to their rescue. It's just a little lead. Everything was fine before the lead hysteria.
Damn those Lefties for making such a fuss. Then dig the knife in deeper by saying that there is no safe level of lead, except according to the well known toxicologist, Kevin Drum.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 11:42pm
Hating on the press now, eh? Soon you and Trump can get a room.
Kevin Drum has been covering lead for over a decade, including relationship to crime wave in 80's/90's.
My concern about statements like "there are no safe levels" is they take away practical goals and targets.
Basic historical backgrounder on lead:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK236453/
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/23/2019 - 2:20am
Virginia Tech, a university of over 34,000 students, undergraduate and postgraduate, did a Flint study in one household connected to city water, over a period of time:
"...drinking water samples all had extremely high lead levels between 200 ppb to 13,200 ppb (Figure 2). Water containing more than 5,000 ppb of lead, exceeds criteria that classifies water as a hazardous waste. The US EPA action level for lead is 15 ppb and the World Health Organization (WHO) maximum lead level is 10 ppb."
by NCD on Fri, 11/22/2019 - 9:47pm
Why does it matter how many students Va Tech has?
You can find the actual team here, working off a $50k grant plus an earlier unrelated one a professor's sharing with them.
http://flintwaterstudy.org/about-page/about-us/
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/23/2019 - 2:21am
Drum has no link for where he got the data for his "author's calculations" in his "Lead Poisoning in Flint" graph.
If you look up lead blood levels at the Michigan Department of HHS there are statewide tables of data BY COUNTY not by city. Flint in in Genesee County MI, with a population of 407,000, Flint 94,000.
Where did he get Michigan Dept. HHS data for Flint that he used to :create his 'authors" chart?
You can't take county data and call it city data. Where's his link to the data for his little Flint graph?
If you look for it, and when you go to the Michigan HHS page it has a disclaimer on the data:
Specifically, tests were done on under 6 yrs, by county, about 6,500 were tested yearly in the entire country for lead.
Since the county has 4 times the population of Flint, 75% of the results are not for Flint children. The data are skewed towards the county.
The uptick in 2015 might be 4 times that on the graph Drum 'created', as Flint is only 1/4 of the children tested in the county.
Additionally, the dataset disclaimer says it "is not representative of the entire population", meaning isolated populations could be higher or lower.
Drum's article is a sloppy job, from the Virginia Tech data I mentioned, some isolated or not so isolated families in Flint should have, and were justified, if they panicked.
by NCD on Sat, 11/23/2019 - 1:02am
Certain kinds of panic are justified. But not all. Flushing with bottled water?
Be careful of falling in love with your own source of data - you just may miss defects you begrudge in other sources.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/23/2019 - 5:23am
The mayor is shown off-color water and rising lead levels. Are you saying that she should not have raised an alarm? Do you agree with the slow response by the Governor and state health department?
What should have happened?
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 11/23/2019 - 10:36am
https://www.abc12.com/content/news/Flint-water-tests-show-acceptable-lev...
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-lead-testing/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180326090313.htm
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/23/2019 - 11:18am
The lead levels in water in Flint decreased because the "hysterical" mayor raised the alarm and pipelines were replaced.
Apparently, other cities need hysterical mayors to get action to lower lead levels.
The lead levels were headed down then as the EPA graph shows, the levels of lead in Flint blood levels rose. The mayor was shown rising blood levels and discolored water.
What should the mayor have done?
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 11/23/2019 - 11:45am
Apparently you can't parse the difference between different levels of response, and know how to calm people down at different stages of handling an emergency, preferring instead to make it a permanent crisis to show what shits America is re: race or whatever your specific agenda is. If lead levels are way too high, call it out & improve the situation. If lead levels are moving back towards acceptable (and yes, Virginia, there is such a thing), announce it so people can stress about more pressing concerns. Instead, the Left likes these sky will be falling forever scenarios tied to global warming, fracking, war, old rich white dudes, free trade, etc. Right now the far left is doing what it can to see about losing an easy-to-win election by again asking for purity tests on medicare-for-all (once it was the magic words "single payer"), when Democrats have been getting pounded on the issue since 2010. But then these advocates aren't really Democrats half the time, so that part doesn't really bother them. But you now what? If blacks don't think anything was done to help lead in Flint, why would the vote for Democrats, much less Republicans? why wouldn't they just give up, or go back to the Black Panthers, basically the US version of Hezbollah in a "extrajudicial way of handlng issues that matter to people"? Because if things don't change, if racism in America is the same now as in 1965 as in 1910 as in 1865, then why should anyone trust anything from the system whatsoever, just give up, riot, something.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/23/2019 - 2:32pm
i.e. whaddabout radon being ignored for "lead poisoning":
P.R. is operative not just with politicians but with non-profit organizations for change and issues in general too. That is actually what many lobbyists do for a living: try to make sure the public thinks something is the most important issue to work on. (Comes to mind back in the old days, Jerry Lewis telethon tried to make sure everyone thought muscular dystrophy was the one disease we could win, only if....)
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/23/2019 - 8:40pm
Wait, we have to multitask? That's women's work.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 11/24/2019 - 4:32am
I couldn't finish your rant. The mayor was presented with an increase in lead levels in real time. Tainted pipelines were replaced . People avoided use of Flint water. Lead levels fell.
The children of Flint are stigmatized. The government of Michigan told the black children of Flint that the government did not give a crap about their lives. Pipelines were only changed after the mayor's alarm got outside forces to put pressure on the government of Michigan.
Measuring very low levels of lead is expensive. We have no long term data on the harm done by long term exposure to lead
The EPA warned that lead levels were high, the government of Michigan denied the truth of the report
The lead levels in Flint were 20 ppb initially
The Flint alarm resulted in the state finding high lead levels in other cities
https://www.michiganradio.org/post/does-flint-have-clean-water-yes-it-s-complicated
The alarm resulted in replacing pipelines and recommending filters to prevent poisoning
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 11/24/2019 - 8:59am
We're a month from 2020. Talking about Flint as if it's still 2014-5 was part of my "rant".
The situation on the ground has changed. I'm not complaining about elected & activists responding to a crisis.
I'm suggesting traumatizing the public *after* the crisis has largely passed, or has entered a very different stage, is a bad thing. Politicizing this after-the-fact on the backs of people who have enough challenges.
But go ahead, keep misreading what I say - it's become a little art of yours.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 11/24/2019 - 10:58am
My random thoughts on what you are running into here: It's the glamour of the victimization, your argument was taking the victimization down a notch. The appeal always is: the romantic hero-ization of victimization and protest against it, that must never die. Keep despair and anger about it alive. It's important to fight fight fight against "the man," keeps the blood flowing, makes life worth living?
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/24/2019 - 11:58am
Erin Brockovich? Norma Rae?
I like the vilifying of people who with great effort brought us fossil fuels so we could civilize and find ourselves at a point where we need to substitute. If course if we stuck with animal husbandry or other pre-industrial trappings, we'd be dying at 45 , shoveling shit, and literally watching wheat grow.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 11/24/2019 - 1:30pm
You put up the friggin' post about Flint.
The citizens of Flint still require monitoring
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 11/27/2019 - 11:07am
Here is the CDC coo ents on lead levels
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/inspired-flint-water-crisis-epa-issues-rule-tackle/story?id=66161310
The CDC recommends follow up of children with any level of lead in the blood
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/advisory/acclpp/actions-blls.htm
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 11/27/2019 - 11:02am
Yeah, cuz if we find 5 parts per billion, or *ANY* parts, gotta do something...
https://www.naturalnews.com/055024_lead_contamination_water_supply_Ameri...
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 11/27/2019 - 2:27pm
There is no safe level of lead. The EPA is taking action.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/inspired-flint-water-crisis-epa-issues-rule-tackle/story?id=66161310
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 11/27/2019 - 3:25pm
They say they're doing it when it's 15 parts per billion - aren't you going to complain? that's insufficient, right?
If they're not even checking levels, then obviously they don't know.
Look at the map - how many of those problem sites will the EPA handle in 5 years? Even if Hillary were president, or if Democrats took the Senate, how fast would this stuff happen?
Let's get real - this is all a slow painful & expensive process:

Do you see a small discrepancy between those two? This new EPA rule is tackling maybe 1/200th of the fix-it-all cost, just a nibble, enough to make enough people happy. Is it enough to make a difference? idunno, with Team Trump I'm skeptical, but I know we're not gonna spend $80 billion.
And is Flint still among the most critical, or have efforts the last 4 years jumped it ahead of hundreds of other comunities with water & lead problems?
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 11/27/2019 - 4:20pm
Flint raised the alarm, and changes are underway. Should the changes stop and move to other cities?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 11/27/2019 - 9:33pm
Dunno, what's your time, budget, evaluation of critical danger vs competing crises, doability/chance for success...
BTW, the CDC knew vaping deaths were caused by Vitamin E Acetate back in September from the FDA, but piddlefucked around for 2 months with "we don't know" and "maybe all vaping is harmful - it has nicotine, doesn't it?" so that vaping takes a hit, becoming illegal in places like India and China even though tens/hundreds of millions die from regular cigarette smoke (big business if you can get it)
So I'm not very convinced by the "every life is sacred" bullshit - life is cheap and on the chopping block every single day. The same money that goes to Flint could go to Africa and save 1000 times the lives, or be spent by the DoD in a week without ever being noticed or used for some missile system to keep Russia out of Iraq or protect Kurds from Turkey or Rohinga from Burmese. Brutal tradeoffs all the time.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 11/28/2019 - 3:05am
Lead exposure is a problem. There is no safe level of lead. Flint raised an alarm. Flint received attention. Give credit to the activists and the mayor. Activists in other cities can use Flint as inspiration. Flint is lucky that you had no power to effect their lives.
The ridiculous argument that the children of Flint are being stigmatized is just that, ridiculous. The children of Flint were told that their lives didn't matter by the state government via an overseer, the state health department, and the Governor. They already know that every life isn't scared.
Regarding the FDA Anderson-cigarettes
https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/e-cigarettes-fda-hands-tied/
The FDA repeatedly appealed the decision
The CDC is tasked with finding the cause of the outbreak, and it did. It had issued a warning in August
https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/08/vaping-illnesses-vitamin-e-acetate/
Just like the Flint lead poisoning, some labeled the CDC as being alarmist.
https://www.city-journal.org/cdc-trump-vaping
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/28/2019 - 8:44am
So 39 died from flavored vaping, and CDC couldn't be bothered to broadcast loud and clear the culprit, leading to vaping shutdown calls for months. "Just like the Flint lead poisoning, some labeled the CDC as being alarmist" - well, I didn't say the Flint crisis was alarmist the first week - but after a few years, even flushing with bottled water?. Meanwhile, in the serious world
So the CDC is overplaying a health hazard that killed 39 in two months, letting an epidemic rebound that kills 39,000 every month, 2000x as much. You go, buddy - you've got it all figured out.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 11/28/2019 - 10:26am
WTF
Cigarettes are known toxins with warning labels. They remain legal in the United States. The are multiple warnings not to smoke. The CDC can't ban cigarettes, that requires Congressional action.
The initial problem with e-cigarettes was noted in June. Warnings came in August. In September, Trump talked about a federal ban on e-cigarettes, then punked out.
The CDC announced the culprit, once they ruled other possibilities. Many states issued valuing bans.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/28/2019 - 12:36pm
Fix what can be fixed . Saving 39 is a good thing. Wonderful. Doesn't necessarily stop you from also saving 39,000. If if does , sure do the rational thing. But at least consider whether you can go the whole hog and save 39,039.
by Flavius on Thu, 11/28/2019 - 1:13pm
misc. data I have collected related to the vaping jihad and its narratives
~ Wikipedia
Here's the evidence that the FDA knew exactly what was causing the vaping-related illnesses by Sept. 5 and informed state officials at that time. As you say, the CDC pretended for months that the FDA didn't really know what it was doing and was jumping to conclusions, allowing for alarmist speculation and propaganda to develop and inspire proposed vaping bans allover the place before they finally announced: oh, by the way, the FDA was correct, but we thought a period of fear and paranoia inspiring all kinds of nanny state suggestions would be a good thing (themselves whispered to follow this program by a variety of lobbyists of the Puritan jihadi type? The mystery for me: how come such jihadis haven't given equal time to smoking marijuana and injesting THC?)
Here from April, considerable evidence that vaping nicotine does not lead to cigarette smoking among children and adolescents. Oh did I mention I tend, from experience, to trust UK sources for epidemiological studes over most of our U.S. sources?
I am reminded of how nearly every kid's tonsils were yanked out in the 1950's based on sure medical conventional wisdom. Now we know that tonsils are an important part of the immune system. Kids who had their tonsils out were famously alllowed to eat ice cream. This made kids open to the procedure. Ah but dairy....And how we drove to the Wisconsin state line in the 60's to buy authentic color margarine (which was not allowed to be sold because the dairy farmers wanted butter to be your only yellow choice in Wisconsin.) We did this to save my father from having a heart attack, which butter supposedly caused. Turns out the dairy farmers were the ones concerned for his health? P.S. Guess what, the latest: pediatricians agree children under 5 should have only breast milk and/or whole cow's milk and water, ruling out other drinks; other liquids may harm their development. Those fruit juices GenX and millennials raised on? Toxic, I guess. And adults should reconsider full fat dairy, too.
Edit to add pre-emptive, don't bother I'll do it myself: Ok, boomer.
by artappraiser on Sun, 12/01/2019 - 8:11pm
Now there are some concerns that higher concentrations of nicotine, esp. as added by Juul brand, much higher than normal cigs, are causing some new psychotropic reactions - don't have link handy/lazy, so not head-in-sand about new possible dangers, but don't like CDC playing scare politics.
[Guardian on nicotine:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/30/nic... ]
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 1:08am
There is no federal ban on vaping products. In fact the industry has fought regulation. Juul's flavored cigarettes and social media campaign are not allowed in the UK
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/30/nicotine-sickness-the-latest-vaping-scare
Early regulation may have prevented the crisis
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 10:13am
It's great when you quote back the same link I provided.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 10:21am
CDC workers are dedicated government workers. Their purpose is not to kill your buzz
Here is the data early in the epidemic
What is already known about this topic?
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6839e1.htm?s_cid=mm6839e1_w
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 8:57pm
RM, you are using already out of date and revises information from the CDC. The CDC reported last month that the likely culprit causing these vaping injuries is vitamin E acetate added to some vaping mixes.This causal link was reported a couple months before the CDC came to their conclusion.
by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 11:54pm
Maybe I should have a statement like early data to show that they were making an advisory based on early data. They were not nitwits, they were acting on available data.
Climate scientists constantly update their hurricane projections based on new information
In the past cardiologists recommended stents for angina. With newer medications, stents are no longer the front line of treatment for angina.
The CDC made a statement based on the early information, then they focused in on a culprit.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 12:26pm
RM. I don't know why the CDC seemed to ignore the early reported science on the effects of high temperature on vitamin D and point their finger at THC and nicotine, neither of which had ever been shown to produce the dangerous changes from high heat seen in vitamin E.It's probable that their research scientists did know about vitamin E but their Administrative State managers saw an opportunity for a little social engineering. Their devious behavior was exposed in the Flint lead crisis when they ignored early warnings from qualified researchers and refused to issue. avoid drinking contaminated water warnings.. Fortunately that unexplained lax behavior didn't cause irreparable harm as most affected households had already stopped drinking the water.
I see you also know little or nothing about angina treatment. I rely on 150 year old nitrate medication for short term relief from angina pain while waiting for angioplasty and stents that offer years of uninterrupted relief.
by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 3:25pm
The CDC was using science, not guess work to hone in on a source
Rebarding your angioplasty
https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/journal-scans/2019/01/15/13/31/mechanisms-and-diagnostic-evaluation-of-persistent
Regarding cardiac events after optimal drug therapy versus stents
https://www.cathlabdigest.com/content/ischemia-trial-finds-no-evidence-lower-cardiac-event-rates-patients-treated-heart-procedures-better-quality-life
You still have a risk of recurrent angina after PCI
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 4:17pm
RM, five interesting study results none of which support your claim that medication is a better treatment for angina 'Pain' than are stents. I used aspirin to relieve angina but nearly died from a bleeding ulcer that required 11 transfusions .
Stents and bypass surgery are only required when there is complete or near complete blockage of arteries so comparing those patients with others who only need low dose aspirin and statins seems very odd. Neither of those drugs can open clogged arteries but they do thin the blood and reduce the chance of clotting.
by Peter (not verified) on Wed, 12/04/2019 - 12:27am
Post links to those studies.
Stents are not reserved for patients with complete occlusion. In fact many heart attacks are caused by rupture of plaques in vessels that have what on catheterization appear to be insignificant plaques. Google plaque rupture.
I gave you a link that mentioned a recent trail, the ISCHEMIA trial showing that endpoints like death, heart attacks, and heart failure was the same in patients treated medically and those treated with angioplasty.
Similar results were found in the COURAGE trial.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/stents-for-coronary-artery-disease-1745729
The ORBITA trial of patients with infrequent angina also showed no different in outcomes between medication and angioplasty in adverse cardiac outcomes.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/are-stents-really-useful-for-stable-angina-4154302
If you have new onset angina, angina that increases in fluency, or occurs with less and less activity, this is unstable angina. Cardiologists would say get thee to an angioplasty suite or a bypass table. If your angina is infrequent and predictable, you may opt to try medications.
You say that your entire blood volume had to be replaced to to aspirin aggravating an ulcer. I doubt that you would be considered a candidate for medical treatment alone. Stenting appears to make more sense. I would note that in the ISCHEMIA trial I linked to said 50% of the patients undergoing angioplasty still had angina in the first year. What I have been told is that angioplasty decreases the frequency of angina, but is not always a cure.
I try to listen when my doctor explains things.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/06/2019 - 10:00pm
Some of the descriptions by the afflicted remind me of caffeine overdose as experienced by moi taking too much No-Doz to do an all nighter as a clueless freshman in college who had not learned to use coffee yet. (Then there was the coffee at Saint Ambroeus restaurant in Manhattan in the late 80's, to this day swear it was spiked with amphetatmines that lasted 24 hrs.)
Yeah, if stimulants are added to a product beyond the normal, I'm all for the FDA checking that they are labeled correctly as to dose. That said, I don't think they need to get into regulating the amount of detergent in Tide Pods in case people start ingesting them. If Juul put overdose level of nicotine in some products without labeling correctly, they deserve to suffer the consequences in the market.
Back to the big picture, what just happened: teenagers/children buy black market products that can't be regulated by any means.
by artappraiser on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 12:52pm
P.S. Comes to mind it's a pretty tough process to go cold turkey on caffeine addiction if one has to, it's not a minor thing.
by artappraiser on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 12:54pm
Just for perspective:
As water levels rise, this Alaska town is fleeing to higher ground
@ PBS.org, Nov 27, 2019 6:25 PM EST
by artappraiser on Thu, 11/28/2019 - 1:10am
Art, You should send St. Greta the climate puppet up to cast her creepy gaze on those Inuits and lecture them about their sin for using gas guzzling snow machines to hunt tasty Polar Bears for dinner.
FYI The effective sea level around Alaska is actually falling as much as 32 inches in the last 60 years so the erosion causing this move is caused by falling sea level.Alaska is one of those places that the land is rising faster than the slowly rising sea.
by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 2:14pm
Well, so great, let's move the world's population to where there are rising tectonic plates? And Alaska has what, 750k population out of the world's 7.5 billion, 0.01%? But thanks for the useless misleading trivia.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/02/2019 - 3:06pm
compare and contrast
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/29/2019 - 1:21am
Art, a more inspirational headline would be, Billions of Children can now look forward to long productive lives now that extreme poverty, that maims and kills more children than any other cause, is being eliminated around the world.The early stage of industrialization and urbanization, while mostly positive, does produce some negative effects.
The picture above looks like LA in the 1950's and London was much much worse in the 1850's but as people develop their economies and become more affluent they demand and are willing to pay for cleaning up their environment.
Only Capitalism can produce the growth and generate the wealth and opportunity they need to both pull themselves out of poverty and live in a cleaner environment.
by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 1:13pm
The specific compare was a 5-year-old water crisi in Flint Vs other big problems to tackle, not whether progress is hopeless. Still, while critical poverty has greatly decreased at least percentage wise, total world population has skyrocketed - 50% gain since the Wall fell, now 7.5billiion, so polluted cities affect a lot more people - for example a Chinese city might be 20-30 million, not the 7-8 million of 70's LA. Electric cars et al will help a lot.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 1:57pm
I view this type of messaging as a form of child abuse just as much of the messaging was during the Flint crisis. This imagery and rhetoric produces more Greta The Paranoid Marxist activist than Elon the the confident Futurist. Greta and her young admirers will probably never produce anything of real value that will be needed to face and overcome future challenges. including bringing some form of prosperity to the poor that will always be with us.
The fact that as world population doubled but extreme poverty numbers remained flat is an amazing accomplishment unrivaled in human history. and it happened mostly in the last 30 years.
China's cities pollution are mostly caused by unregulated coal power plants and many new coal power plants will be needed to charge those electric cars.along with the industrial pollution created from making them. They may be useful in reducing some pollution in highly congested areas but so would investing in modern advanced emissions controls on their coal plants and ICE fleets.
Another looming Green pollution problem is what to do with billions of solar panels when their 25 year life span requires they be replaced. There is no known economically viable recycling process. Then there is the effects of the massive stripmining for Lithium batteries and their reliance on Blood Cobalt from the DRC.
by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 5:38pm
Hmm, weren't we arguing? Yes, each "green" solution has waste issues to handle. China & India flat birthrate is great but doesn't mean their huge populations won't aff CT resources for a century. Yes, transitioning to Elon Musk vehicles and solar panels is a practical step to handling global warming, whereas Greta is asking us to do something... such as build more Gigafactories? The complaints about fracking ignored how it gave us freedom and saved money to push towards renewaboes. Next gen batteries will be solid state(?!?) so no cobalt prob... (how many cobalt deaths vs kids killed some way in oil production or gas pollution?)
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 12/03/2019 - 6:21pm
See How the World’s Most Polluted Air Compares With Your City’s
By Nadja Popovich, Blacki Migliozzi, Karthik Patanjali, Anjali Singhvi and Jon Huang @ NYTimes.com, Dec. 2, 2019
We visualized the damaging, tiny particles that wreak havoc on human health. From the Bay Area to New Delhi, see how the world’s worst pollution compares with your local air.
by artappraiser on Wed, 12/04/2019 - 7:22am
Yo, da Bronx be slammin'. Who knew it was eco-friendly? New Delhi & Xi'an could use a bit of work. Looks like in China they continue to move the pollution on elsewhere, some other unlucky stiffs...
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/04/2019 - 9:16am
Bronx not even metaphorically burnin anymore.
by artappraiser on Wed, 12/04/2019 - 12:20pm
As in polluted, or raging Fort Apache style/brink of collapse? I figger it's all gentrified Starbucks, coffee & scooter turf wars and the like. Totally post-woketopian. Clean air, crooked cellphone data plans.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/05/2019 - 3:48pm
Art, why are you doubling down on this alarmist child abusing propaganda? You must understand that children's and adult's mental health is not improved by slanted reporting, misinformation and outright lies from the NY Slime.
THe first sentence of this polluted report is a big lie, particles of air pollution can't be held
'responsible' for anything but it implies that irresponsible people should be and even worse that industrial progress is deadly killing over 4 million people including helpless children annually.. This is why we see Greta and many others like her glaring at adults and screeching 'shame on you' ignorantly believing that Western Civilization and capitalism are plots to kill then all.
The Four Morons of the Apocalypse who produced this Slime report don't even hint that human progress based on fossil fuels, free market ideas and urbanization has already doubled the human lifespan only that some tiny percentage of already ill or weak people may have their lifespan reduced because of the pollution it produces. We can always do better and we will. The almost 10% of the world population still in rural extreme poverty who shit on the ground and pollute their drinking water causing widespread disease are the next target for progress. Once they urbanize they will have something as simple as clean water to wash their hands and live much healthier lives.
These Four Morons are required by their Warmist religion to parrot their cult belief that CAGW must be at least partially responsible for this crisis. They continue to repeat the debunked false narrative that wildfires that contribute to this particle pollution are caused by man made GW. They link to another bogus report that claims that this pollution is increasing in the US after declining under the glorious Obama regime because of the irresponsible actions of the dreaded Trump. This nitwit propaganda even makes the ludicrous claim that our increasing burning of natural gas, which produces nothing but H2O and CO2 is somehow also producing these evil particles of pollution.
The only useful information from this rubbish propaganda is the active display map showing the US has the best air quality in the world. This is despite the fact that we are constantly exposed to N African desert generated pollution and Asian natural and man made sources.
,
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 12/05/2019 - 2:54pm
My my my you are bloviating wildly at strawmen galore here. If you had spent any time on it, you'd have seen that the NYT team's work makes clear that U.S. cities mostly have some of the cleanest air around. Except when something temporary like the Paradise CA fires happen, and it was part of the exercise to make that kind of thing clear too, how wildly air quality can change with certain events.
by artappraiser on Thu, 12/05/2019 - 8:50pm
says twice: see how the world’s worst pollution compares with your local air. Could they have been any clearer? Are you really that dense that we are going to believe what you say it is when we can just check it out for ourselves by clicking? It's more than clear you didn't bother to look at it but just presumed it would be liberal propaganda.
by artappraiser on Thu, 12/05/2019 - 8:53pm