How many people who are appalled by what is happening on the US-Mexico border know that the death toll among refugees there is far lower than on the frontiers of the EU?
Yes, I agree it is important to keep in mind that the nativist thing is happening concurrently in many places allover the world in reaction to globalization. Last night I ended up being reminded of it by reading this article including a segment about the history of the migrant camp outside Calais, France. Where NIMBY basically goes global, you bitch about Israel doing it to Palestinians but you do the same thing to others.
Made me think of how some "progressives" involved in decrying Trump camps also like to bring up the whattaboutism of Obama admin. policy and say it wasn't much better in the whole scheme of things. And I think: it was far better, because they were wisely taking into account the blowback a more open borders policy could cause.It is not the time to be kindler, gentler on immigration, in the middle of a dangerous global reaction against too rapid change to a globalized world. Would beget more unresolved anger and more cruelty.
Where NIMBY basically goes global, you bitch about Israel doing it to Palestinians but you do the same thing to others.
Seriously, what the hell does that mean? When you say "you" in a comment to me I assume you are talking about me. I would really appreciate some clarification of that sentence which I cannot even derive the meaning of but which characterizes my political stands in a way I do not recognize.
No it's not directed at you. It's directed at French hypocrites. Who want France for the French and if migrants are not willing to wholeheartedly become French, they treat them as badly as Israelis treat Palestinians because they are not Jewish. Then there's the "yellow vest" crowd who don't want a single more person to be able to become French no matter what they might do.
As to your confusion. Here's the way the "In the News" section always appeared to work to me:articles are posted because they are interesting to that person, that is all. As they say on Twitter: "retweet does not necessarily mean endorsement."
If a commenter disagrees with the article or has something to criticize about it, they do so in a comment to the post. If they think it's a shit article or source or they like it and/or it inspires them, they say so. The poster shouldn't take it personally but somehow you always do. Because you mostly post what the rest of us here think are shit articles. And you take that personally. Where it's really only a disagreement about whether it's a good article. If we really wanted to argue about that we'd say "why do you think this is interesting, Lulu?" and we sometimes do. But since you tend to post a lot of the same anti-war and isolationist stuff over and over for years, we do make inferences that you like the stuff.
I this case, that doesn't even apply. To be clear: I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the point of the article and taking it further, relating it to something I just read. In this case, I think it's a good one. Why do I have to explain that? Why don't you get the idea of sharing thoughts instead of constant debate? I am mystified actually. Does everything have to be pro or con?
Cuz the EU built that Sea that takes 36 hours to cross by boat from Libya, just slightly wider/deeper than the Rio Grande?
And here we get to blame Americans again - that Benghazi uprising never occured, it was all Obama/Hillary's fault, nothing to do with Gaddafi threatening civilians with reprisals, and it was Cameron/Sarkozy who overthrew Gaddaffi, not the Libyan militias that caught Gaddafi in the desert and later bayoneted him in the ass - great reporting, Counterpunch - an Orwell prize is waiting for you.
Lost in all this is the responsibility of individual European politicians and governments, notably David Cameron in Britain and Nicolas Sarkozy, who overthrew Muammar Gaddafi in 2011. The aim of the intervention was supposedly to save the people in Benghazi from revenge by Gaddafi’s advancing forces. In practice, it doomed Libyans to perpetual warfare in which their country is torn apart by predatory warlords acting as proxies for foreign powers.
This strikes at a thing that has always disturbed me about far lefties who believe the hegemon is out to screw powerless brown people: the very same lefties often have a very condescending (almost imperialist, dare I say?) attitude about those very same brown people: that they are not smart enough to have agency, and are not making informed choices to go with the "hegemon". That they need to listen to the wise white lefty elite.
Orwell indeed. Still trying after all these years, the same old same old unite under us wise intellectuals, you have nothing to lose but your chains. Some been there, done that, didn't work out.
BY MAGGIE MICHAEL ASSOCIATED PRESS UPDATED JULY 01, 2019 12:18 PM
Eritrean migrants detained in western Libya said Monday they were caught in the crossfire between rival militias, as international agencies called for speeding up resettlement.
They are among thousands of detained migrants, mostly apprehended by local forces funded by the European Union, who have suffered abuses at the hands of traffickers and are now caught up in the armed conflict. The Associated Press recently documented abuses at another detention facility, where hundreds of migrants have been held in filthy conditions , with barely enough food to survive [....]
The U.N. refugee agency has said that more than 3,000 migrants, most of them apprehended by EU-funded and trained Libyan coast guards while trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea, are at risk because they are held in detention centers close to the front lines.
In Gharyan, the migrants were transferred from another detention center because they were sick mostly with TB, according to Julien Raickman, the head of Doctors Without Borders mission in Libya.
A 35-year-old Eritrean told the AP that the fighting reached the facility he has been held in for months last week. The head of the detention center fled after telling migrants, "we are with Hifter ... I can't help you," the detainee said. "We were hiding as we saw shooting 200 meters (yards) from us," the migrant said. "We are very afraid."
He and a second migrant said that militiamen broke the gates and immediately held one migrant under gunpoint, asking if he was with Hifter. After the only Arabic-speaking migrant explained that they were migrants sick with TB, they were let go. However, days later the militiamen returned and tried to recruit the migrants to join their forces.
"We told them we are sick and very weak. We can't carry guns," the migrant said. They appealed for help, saying their detention center is running out of food and water.
The group of 30 ended up in Gharyan after years on arduous journeys at the mercy of traffickers [....]
Caption: In this May 21, 2019 photo provided by an African migrant, hundreds of migrants stage a protest in a detention center in the town of Zintan, western Libya, appealing for help from the United Nations. In the desert of western Libya, hundreds of African migrants were held for months in a detention center, packed in amid garbage covered in maggots and sewage, shared buckets of water, and barely surviving on only one meal a day. More than 20 have died from disease and hunger, while EU-funded aid agencies had little knowledge of the situation, according to leaked memos and migrants. (AP Photo)
[....]
“We need emergency evacuation from Zintan,” one told the AP. “We suffer physically, mentally and emotionally.”
Photos and videos taken by migrants showed heaps of garbage in the hangar, parts of the center flooded with sewage and plates of food crawling with maggots. The hangar had only four toilets, along with buckets for detainees to urinate in.
Migrants said they were not allowed out to see the sun, and the head of the center would often deprive them of food and water for days as a form of punishment. Those who were given food got only a small plate of pasta or couscous each day and had to share water that a few detainees were allowed to fetch once a day in buckets.
Internal memos and emails obtained by the AP show disagreement among aid agencies over conditions at the center, with one nonprofit working on behalf of the United Nations denying there was lack of food, even as it acknowledged it had not been able to see most of the migrants held there.
Migrants in the Zintan center and their advocates accused U.N. aid agencies of being slow to respond or forgetting them altogether. But the U.N refugee agency, or UNHCR, disputes that, saying the Libyan militias who run the facility have denied their workers access to all parts of it.
UNHCR chief Filippo Grandi told the AP that after photos from inside the site emerged last month, the agency intervened and evacuated 96 migrants from a separate building at the facility where it had access. They were sent to the one U.N.-run center for migrants in Tripoli.
“It is not because of lack of will or not even because of lack of resources,” Grandi said. “Access in Libya is the fundamental obstacle to saving more lives.”
Col. Nasser Nakoua, part of the militias who run the detention center in Zintan, denied there was any lack of access to the facility.
“Those saying that they have no access are just lying. The doors are open, and we want the agencies to come and help or just shut the place down, because there is severe shortage in everything,” he told the AP by phone.
He blamed the government, which is nominally in control of the facility, for failing to fund its operations. “We received nothing from Department for Combating Illegal Migration,” he said, referring to the body in charge of the facilities, “not a single penny.”
[....]
Currently, a U.N.-aligned but weak administration in Tripoli oversees the west, where Zintan is located, but much of its powers are in the hands of militias. Eastern Libya is controlled by a rival government aligned with the self-styled Libyan National Army led by Field Marshal Khalifa Hifter, who in April launched an offensive on Tripoli.
Some human rights advocates blame the European Union for the migrant crisis because it has funded Libya’s coast guard to stop the crossers at sea. That effort has been highly effective, with the number of people entering the EU via the central Mediterranean cut from 180,000 in 2016 to 23,400 last year and just 880 in the first four months of this year, according to the EU border agency Frontex.
At least 6,000 migrants from such nations as Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia and Sudan are locked in dozens of detention facilities run by militias accused of torture and other human rights abuses. And that comes after often-arduous journeys at the mercy of traffickers who are known to abuse migrants and hold them for ransom money from families back home.
HOUSTON (AP) — In one photo, one of 88 men in a cell meant for 41 presses a piece of cardboard against the window, with the word “help.” In another, a man lowers his head and clasps his hands as if in prayer. And in a third, a woman wearing a surgical mask presses both of her hands against the glass.
The images were released Tuesday by U.S. government inspectors who visited facilities in South Texas where migrant adults and children who crossed the nearby border with Mexico are processed and detained [....]
SEATTLE (AP) — A federal judge in Seattle on Tuesday blocked a Trump administration policy that would keep thousands of asylum-seekers locked up while they pursue their cases, saying the Constitution demands that such migrants have a chance to be released from custody [....]
ROME (AP) — The sea captain who rammed a police boat while bringing 40 rescued migrants to an Italian port she’d been warned to stay out of must be freed from house arrest, a judge ruled Tuesday in a decision that angered the Italian government minister who had declared the defiant mariner an outlaw.
Carola Rackete, 31, was arrested after she docked the rescue ship of German nonprofit group Sea-Watch at Italy’s tiny Lampedusa island early Saturday, 17 days after taking the migrant passengers aboard off Libya.
Rackete was “doing her duty saving lives,” Judge Alessandra Vella concluded in denying prosecutors’ request to keep the German captain under house arrest, Italian state broadcaster RAI reported Tuesday night. Italy’s virulently anti-migrant interior minister, Matteo Salvini, banned ships conducting humanitarian rescue missions from Italian waters and ports, contending they boats encourage human trafficking. [....]
WASHINGTON (AP) — Cory Booker has rolled out an immigration agenda composed of changes he could make without relying on Congress, including a shift away from criminal prosecution of border crossings and a new mandate for migrant detention facilities to meet minimum standards.
Booker’s immigration plan, unveiled Tuesday, is one of the most detailed among Democratic White House hopefuls. His proposal sets a different tone from former Texas Rep. Beto O’Rourke’s immigration agenda by focusing entirely on executive orders that a future president could pursue without relying on a legislative deal that has proved elusive in recent years [....]
ROME (AP) — The Latest on migration issues in Europe (all times local): 4:10 p.m.
Italian Premier Giuseppe Conte says he has told German Chancellor Angela Merkel that the fate of the migrant rescue ship’s captain is in hands of his country’s justice system.
Conte told journalists in Brussels that Merkel inquired about Carola Rackete, who docked the humanitarian ship Sea-Watch 3 at an Italian island without permission to disembark the 40 rescued migrants on boar.
Sea-Watch 3 rammed an Italian police boat blocking the dock Saturday. Anti-migrant Interior Minister Matteo Salvini has taken a tough stance on humanitarian rescue boats bringing migrants to Italy. [....]
OSAKA, Japan (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin fired a new broadside against Western liberalism at the Group of 20 summit in Japan, saying that policies such as welcoming migrants have hurt people’s interests [.....]
He also charged that the influx of migrants to Europe has infringed on people’s rights. “People live in their own country, according to their own traditions, why should it happen to them?” Putin said [....]
BENGHAZI, Libya (AP) — An airstrike hit a detention center for migrants early Wednesday in the Libyan capital, killing at least 40 people, a health official in the country’s U.N.-supported government said.
The airstrike targeting the detention center in Tripoli’s Tajoura neighborhood also wounded 80 migrants, said Malek Merset, a spokesman for the health ministry. Merset posted photos of migrants who were being taken in ambulances to hospitals.
In a statement, the U.N.-supported government blamed the self-styled Libyan National Army, led by Khalifa Hifter, for the airstrike [.....]
Also I would be remiss if I didn't throw another continent into the hopper here:
‘Much can be learned’: Trump celebrates Australia’s ‘inhuman’ detention of migrants https://t.co/A9EWCT2M0a
And then there's the Dalai Lama suggesting Europe should be for Europeans:
In a controversial move Rugby Australia suspends The Dalai Lama over some (more) controversial things about women and migrants - CNN https://t.co/3bajrknMwg
Immigration is a large problem to confront and manage in better and better ways, meaning handling its root causes as well as its manifestations and damages/benefits. Europe can handle some Mideast/African/Asian influx, but like all things, in moderation/reasonable quantity - for the xenophobic that's low, for many others it still has its limits - and it's cost Merkel a lot of her power sticking her neck out, and helped inflame/nudge along Brexit.
Now, how to talk sanely about immigration in the US between wall builders and let-em-all-in types? Tuff.
Comments
Yes, I agree it is important to keep in mind that the nativist thing is happening concurrently in many places allover the world in reaction to globalization. Last night I ended up being reminded of it by reading this article including a segment about the history of the migrant camp outside Calais, France. Where NIMBY basically goes global, you bitch about Israel doing it to Palestinians but you do the same thing to others.
Made me think of how some "progressives" involved in decrying Trump camps also like to bring up the whattaboutism of Obama admin. policy and say it wasn't much better in the whole scheme of things. And I think: it was far better, because they were wisely taking into account the blowback a more open borders policy could cause.It is not the time to be kindler, gentler on immigration, in the middle of a dangerous global reaction against too rapid change to a globalized world. Would beget more unresolved anger and more cruelty.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 12:53pm
Seriously, what the hell does that mean? When you say "you" in a comment to me I assume you are talking about me. I would really appreciate some clarification of that sentence which I cannot even derive the meaning of but which characterizes my political stands in a way I do not recognize.
by A Guy Called LULU on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 1:11pm
No it's not directed at you. It's directed at French hypocrites. Who want France for the French and if migrants are not willing to wholeheartedly become French, they treat them as badly as Israelis treat Palestinians because they are not Jewish. Then there's the "yellow vest" crowd who don't want a single more person to be able to become French no matter what they might do.
As to your confusion. Here's the way the "In the News" section always appeared to work to me:articles are posted because they are interesting to that person, that is all. As they say on Twitter: "retweet does not necessarily mean endorsement."
If a commenter disagrees with the article or has something to criticize about it, they do so in a comment to the post. If they think it's a shit article or source or they like it and/or it inspires them, they say so. The poster shouldn't take it personally but somehow you always do. Because you mostly post what the rest of us here think are shit articles. And you take that personally. Where it's really only a disagreement about whether it's a good article. If we really wanted to argue about that we'd say "why do you think this is interesting, Lulu?" and we sometimes do. But since you tend to post a lot of the same anti-war and isolationist stuff over and over for years, we do make inferences that you like the stuff.
I this case, that doesn't even apply. To be clear: I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the point of the article and taking it further, relating it to something I just read. In this case, I think it's a good one. Why do I have to explain that? Why don't you get the idea of sharing thoughts instead of constant debate? I am mystified actually. Does everything have to be pro or con?
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 5:03pm
Cuz the EU built that Sea that takes 36 hours to cross by boat from Libya, just slightly wider/deeper than the Rio Grande?
And here we get to blame Americans again - that Benghazi uprising never occured, it was all Obama/Hillary's fault, nothing to do with Gaddafi threatening civilians with reprisals, and it was Cameron/Sarkozy who overthrew Gaddaffi, not the Libyan militias that caught Gaddafi in the desert and later bayoneted him in the ass - great reporting, Counterpunch - an Orwell prize is waiting for you.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 4:49pm
This strikes at a thing that has always disturbed me about far lefties who believe the hegemon is out to screw powerless brown people: the very same lefties often have a very condescending (almost imperialist, dare I say?) attitude about those very same brown people: that they are not smart enough to have agency, and are not making informed choices to go with the "hegemon". That they need to listen to the wise white lefty elite.
Orwell indeed. Still trying after all these years, the same old same old unite under us wise intellectuals, you have nothing to lose but your chains. Some been there, done that, didn't work out.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 5:01pm
A.P. in The Miami Herald: Migrants detained in Libya, caught in crossfire, seek aid
BY MAGGIE MICHAEL ASSOCIATED PRESS UPDATED JULY 01, 2019 12:18 PM
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 7:41pm
A.P. in The Jefferson (City Missouri) News Tribune:
Migrants stranded in Libya endure sewage, maggots, disease
Caption: In this May 21, 2019 photo provided by an African migrant, hundreds of migrants stage a protest in a detention center in the town of Zintan, western Libya, appealing for help from the United Nations. In the desert of western Libya, hundreds of African migrants were held for months in a detention center, packed in amid garbage covered in maggots and sewage, shared buckets of water, and barely surviving on only one meal a day. More than 20 have died from disease and hunger, while EU-funded aid agencies had little knowledge of the situation, according to leaked memos and migrants. (AP Photo)
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 7:51pm
So is this the A.P. that's just a "Propaganda Multiplier"?
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 7:54pm
I thought to check for more recent A.P. "propaganda" subscribed to by newspapers around the world:
Government photos show detained migrants pleading for help
By NOMAAN MERCHANT an hour ago
Judge blocks Trump policy keeping asylum-seekers locked up
By GENE JOHNSON a minute ago
Italy judge rules to free captain of migrant rescue boat
By FRANCES D'EMILIO an hour ago
Booker unveils immigration plan relying on executive orders
By ELANA SCHOR today
The Latest: Italy’s Conte: Merkel asked about rescue captain
yesterday
Drowned migrants return to El Salvador for burial on Monday
By MARCOS ALEMAN June 30, 2019
Putin says liberalism ‘eating itself,’ migrant influx wrong
By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV June 29, 2019
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 8:18pm
new: Libyan official says airstrike kills 40 migrants in Tripoli
Also I would be remiss if I didn't throw another continent into the hopper here:
And then there's the Dalai Lama suggesting Europe should be for Europeans:
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 9:28pm
Immigration is a large problem to confront and manage in better and better ways, meaning handling its root causes as well as its manifestations and damages/benefits. Europe can handle some Mideast/African/Asian influx, but like all things, in moderation/reasonable quantity - for the xenophobic that's low, for many others it still has its limits - and it's cost Merkel a lot of her power sticking her neck out, and helped inflame/nudge along Brexit.
Now, how to talk sanely about immigration in the US between wall builders and let-em-all-in types? Tuff.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 1:24am