MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
|
|
Liberal frustration imperils quick Dem social spending deal
By artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 2:50am |Biden will visit the House Democratic Caucus on Thursday morning, delaying his planned departure on a foreign trip.
URL:
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/27/top-dems-social-spending-deal-manchin-sinema-517332
- 9526 reads
Comments
Yglesias on AOC's tweet:
replies to Yglesias:
that discussion continues at length on that thread and there's also this topic discussed, starting with this reply
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 3:05am
an aside that Biden appeared to handle MAGA heckling just fine while stumping for McAuliffe Tues., in a way he actually seemed to enjoy the opportunity:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 3:14am
very long Ilhan Omar thread from 4 hrs. ago starts here:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 3:23am
break for a cartoon:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 3:29am
May be the wrong thread but some Twitter feed seems confused, so I'll note: 1) yes, we knew a lot of 70s/80s androgeny was actually gay and we were fine with it - it was certainly more fun & creative than 2021's version; 2) Elon Musk getting gov subsidies to actually help electric vehicles and battery tech get critical mass in the market is one of the best uses of government subsidies ever, even if you think Musk is a douche.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 8:18am
some basics on Sinema & Manchin that counter incorrect social media spin:
also, two articles on Sinema's positions being mischaracterized:
including this piece by two WaPo reporters recommended by Bill Scher which partly focuses on how she just likes to do her work with people that have the power to affect things, and doesn't like to spin to the media and otherwise bloviate, and that's how she gets mischaracterized
(I have noticed that when she tweets, it seems to be explaining what she's doing to and for her constituents, not addressing anyone else.)
then just throwing in a couple things I found applicable:
Bill Scher's comment from last week:
Analysis at WaPo last week:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 3:55am
I think Condi would agree somehow
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 7:58am
Twitter news/events
President Biden delivers remarks on $1.75 social spending plan ahead of his Rome visit
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 1:12pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 1:43pm
A good reminder that: It's the economy, stupids.
And borrowing big time on the wrong stuff fuels inflation?
Covid-related supply chain issues and lack of employees willing to do basic work they did before for low pay is the bigger inflation-related problem right now, though?
Asking, not sure.
It is a real problem right now with food prices, that I am sure of.
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 1:50pm
Hah, he's doing the Norman Vincent Peale thing, power of positive thinking:
or is it just delusion?
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 2:02pm
Nancy Pelosi is giving her weekly press briefing:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 2:23pm
Jennifer Rubin's on board with Biden's positive spin:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 2:35pm
this is why the "talking" has gone on so long...
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 2:28pm
Progressives are being steamrolled by Biden & Pelosi? Figuring their reticence is all "for show"?
note:
Biden's White House could see reality basically from the getgo. I would say: if "progressives" want more power, they need to work to get more Bernie Sanders types in the Senate, which means quitting with the culture wars crap and the "defund police" crap and then maybe that's possible. You don't do that by making whypipple swallow Woke theory, Bernie doesn't! He famously stays away from most racial woke messaging. Meanwhile, until you can accomplish this, you don't bitch about and badmouth Dems who manage to get elected to the Senate in a conservative state like West Virginia, they are all you've got.
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 3:05pm
now this is certainly an example of Cori Bush doing a "show" for her base:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 4:12pm
Major poli-sci guy:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 4:27pm
oh, even if not true, interesting that "sources" are saying this:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 4:31pm
Rep. Ayana Pressley, 5:17 pm:
AOC, 2 hrs. ago:
Rep. Rashia Tlaib, 4 hrs. ago:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 9:56pm
Susan B. Glasser:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 10:46pm
Progressives are fighting for the Build Back Better bill, nothing surprising there.
They want a guaranteed vote, because they don't trust Manchin and Sinema.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 11:05pm
WRONG. What a silly simplistic statement showing you don't understand what's going on at all!
Progressives want a delay, everyone else wants to get going. They are holding one bill hostage.
They don't trust anyone else, they dealt down already and they want to make sure what they were promised stays in the 2,000+ page bill.
They refuse to vote for the one bill separately, they are holding that bill hostage so no changes they don't like are made afterwards ot the other one. They demand both be voted on together.
Biden and Pelosi wanted that one voted ASAP, today.
Progressives wouldn't do that, against Biden and Pelosi's wishes. It's a clear lack of trust of Biden and Pelosi, that they won't later give away the farm.
Why do you think Biden delayed his trip to go over there this morning?
Why do you think Pelosi was rumored to be thrown out of the Progressive caucus meeting today?
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 11:41pm
FDR's Citzen's Bill of Rights
The above is what the fight is about. There is still no guarantee that Manchin and Sinema are fully aboard with either bill.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 10/28/2021 - 11:58pm
WASHINGTON — President Biden on Thursday unveiled his outline for a $1.85 trillion social safety net and environmental bill, imploring Democrats to put aside their differences and embrace a plan to provide universal prekindergarten, generous support for child care costs and the largest investment ever to combat climate change.
But his appeal for Democrats to unite and hand him a long-delayed victory on his domestic agenda fell flat, as liberals demanded assurances that the package would survive before they would agree to an immediate vote on a separate $1 trillion infrastructure bill. That left Mr. Biden empty-handed as he departed for Europe, where he had hoped to point to progress on both measures as proof that American democracy still works.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/28/us/politics/biden-framework-bill-plan.html
It makes sense to verify that Manchin, Sinema, et. al. are onboard with the safety net and environmental bill.
Edit to add:
If Democrats have to fight Manchin and Sinema over the basics, there is no reason to believe that they can protect us from the coming Republican authoritarian onslaught.
A friend's definition of Democrats, "Punks".
Manchin and Sinema will walk away from the safety net bill if the infrastructure bill is signed by itself.
Progressives want assurances that both bills will pass
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 12:51am
If Dems want rubber stamp they need a few vote majority. Otherwise they have to compromise with the different factions of the party. Deal with it.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 2:08am
There are two bills, Everyone wants to get going on both of them. Except the two conservative dems who want to stop one and the progressives that want to stop the other. I guess you're just a traditionalist. You expect the progressives to cave to the conservatives since traditionally that always have.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 3:50am
You always claim everyone you supported won, so you must have supported Biden. Where o where did you get the impression he was a "progressive"? He never ever said he was, he said he was into bi-partisanship. He said it again here, I guess I have to post this again hoping you'll clean the wax out of your ears, where he says that's consensus and that's what I ran on
The Progressive caucus IS A SMALL minority of Democrats. Most Democrats clearly wanted to do what he president wanted. NO THEY ARE NOT DOING WHAT BIDEN WANTED, NOT AT ALL. Again, a repeat:
Therefore, what went on is that a small minority is holding back what the majority of the party, the President and the Speaker wanted to do. Again, the whole caucus drowned them out with cheers of "vote!
You wouldn't like it if the GOP was doing this,not at all.
Furthermore the FDR thing you posted was just more proof of your stupidity. Like PP implied, if you want to do what FDR did, you have to have a large majority in Congress. You don't have that, instead you lost seats in the house because "progressives" were shouting "Defund the police" and "socialism!" according to Jim Clyburn who told them to shut the fuck up lest they help lose the two Senate seats in Georgia as well.
If this progressive trick goes bad, it will be more of the same old same old purity game that is against everything Biden has ever believed in. Heck, even Bernie doesn't do too much of the purity thing, though many of his fans think it's a cool thing to do, be a small, select group that specializes in turning majorities off and losing elections.
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 6:49am
Where is the bipartisanship?
Edit to add:
You keep yammering about bipartisanship. There has been zero effort on the part of Republicans to reach across the aisle on major bills. At the same time Republicans are trying to suppress efforts to investigate January 6th. In state after state, Republicans are crafting voting laws to make certain only Republicans can win.Two corporate Democrats are working to decrease the impact of the infrastructure and safety net bills. From your bubble, you place the blame at the door of the Progressives.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 8:35am
repost of tweet at bottom of thread:
done with you.
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 1:00pm
Bipartisanship is defined as making compromise.
Progressives want both bills considered together
Republicans would have no problem making a similar demand if positions were switched
If there are 41 Democrats and 10+ Republicans, the bill passes without the Progressives.
If Republicans truly want the deal, they can compromise
Progressives made dramatic cuts in the cost of their proposals.
Progressives have compromised.
Edit to add:
Error correction:
With 9 Democratic "no's" and 10+ Republicans "yea's", there is a majority
(Thinking House, but originally posted Senate)
Edit to add:
Boneheaded mistake re: Senate
However if there is bipartisanship, 9 Republicans are all that would be needed to overcome the 9 Democratic "no's"
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 5:29pm
CNN'S chief (and very experienced) Congressional correspondent 8 hrs. ago:
two of the replies seem to represent the same old same old "get a backbone" contingent vs. the "compromise is better than nothing" contingent
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 3:03am
also, here's Manu Thurs. morning after Biden left:
So whether you think it's a good thing or a bad thing, I think it's pretty clear that the progressives in their choice of action really were dissing Biden & Pelosi as not trustworthy.
Maybe they are trustworthy and maybe they're not; that's a personal political opinion.
One thing I do think that's applicable is that Biden & Pelosi are both already known as practical types that don't usually hold grudges even if they are temporarily pissed So there's that, which can be used by people who disagree if they join together in a gang and "hold the line" (and certainly the GOP has done that PLENTY and to excess.)
What the end game is is something I don't get except that I have seen plenty enough analysts complain that the bill they are trying to protect is a mish-mosh mess that's ALREADY lost anything anyone will remember as a major improvement that Dems will get credit for.
Which makes me suspicious that the progressives involved, having given up lots of big dreams already, including some that were popular with the public at large. are now at the stage of more desperately protecting things that will benefit their constituents or benefit them at election time as keeping promises. Which in the past has always been criticized as "pork" when it's done by "the other side".
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 5:32am
But isn't it the same thing, depending on who's doing the hostage taking and whose issues are winning in the showdown? That's the sausage making - everyone gets ground up at some point.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 7:02am
dang lost a long complex reply to you having too many windows open and a slippery touch pad that needs adjustment. probably better that I let what I was saying ruminate a while anyways and try again later.
The one point I was ending with is important tho: the thing Pelosi said about "don't let our president go on his trip without passing this bill". I get why she said that, and also made a couple other comments in recent days about "supporting our president". Only because I heard an NPR report just a few hours before about the problems of Biden addressing G-20.
After the other countries have had the experiences of the Trump admin. shocking them about what the U.S. population is really about, the Biden rapid and unexpected pullout from Afghanistan, and things like France being angry about the submarine deal, etc. This is a super important meeting, they have to hash out all kinds of things on the world economy under covid and supply chain problems and things like truckers saying "take this job and shove it" allover the world, and the whole urgency of climate problems.
She is fearing, like the folks on the NPR segment, that other countries just don't trust the U.S. anymore and are going to say: gee you're a nice guy but why should I trust any damn thing you suggest when you can't even get your own party to pass an infrastructure bill? Your country is doubly nuts, first you throw Trumpism at us, then send you who can't even rally your own party to your bills. That's why they wanted this vote. And I suspect that's also why many in the main caucus meeting cheered "vote!" as well.
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 2:11pm
p.s. illustrating my point, from yesterday:
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 2:58pm
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 4:39am
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 5:00am
so it's likely resolution is more than a month away:
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 3:01pm
So the way I see what went down:
Sounds like a parliamentary system of 3 parties to me!
Europeans and others with parliamentary systems should totally understand this predicament?! They just won't be working under any delusion that the U.S. is any more capable than they are, that's all?
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 5:07pm
OK, now we got inside poop from Politico telling a story a little more chaotic and disorganized than mine which "ended in sheer Democratic frustration":
replies, of course, are a mixed bag where everyone has a favorite enemy to blame, which still sort of supports my supposition that we are basically dealing with two political parties with "Dems", not one, IT'S ALWAYS THE SAME THING, what I don't get is people not recognizing how deep and consistent the division; i.e., where the left still holds grudges against and dislikes the Clintons and vice versa. PLENTY OF PEOPLE, very politically active, ALWAYS PISSED AT THE GUYS IN THE SAME SUPPOSED PARTY. That's a political party? Of what? About what?
the thread CONTINUES! no doubt even longer ones on other tweets of the story...strong either/or feelings always, continuous over decades...NOT "herding cats", two distinct political ideologies artificially joined in one party
by artappraiser on Fri, 10/29/2021 - 7:20pm
Will Rogers: "Do you belong to any organized political groups?" "No sir, I'm a Democrat."
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 10/30/2021 - 10:07am
by artappraiser on Sun, 10/31/2021 - 9:04pm