Even if you knew nothing about the FL law & couldn’t spare 90 seconds to Google it, idea that it mandated “registering your political beliefs” with the state was obvious nonsense.
new hashtag trending just now on Twitter, clearly related to the bill. highly suggestive of political ops as everyone's basically saying the same thing:
^ I am puzzled by any political purpose to screaming "fascist! in outrage. Baying in anger at the moon and/or preaching to the choir, yes. As a political tactic? No, real dumb. If you're trying to convince anyone else, it will look like hyperbole, and righties (Tucker Carlson types) will pick up on that and make fun of you and it will resound.
Also, this is offering an alternative to Trumpies name calling? Actually to most people, it sounds just like them.
Notice how DeSantis doesn't fight back loudly about inaccuracies; I suspect they are giving him the reaction he wants. (Same thing with the "don't say Gay" law. It merely forbids talking about it up until 3rd grade. If you believed the left, they're burning all the gays in Miami. He apparently likes that, likes to have people think that. In the meantime, most of the gays in Miami are still quite happy with Florida.
Andrew Spar, the president of the Florida Education Association (FEA), told Changing America that that isn’t a sign of increased anti-LGBTQ+ hate in schools — it’s a signal that educators and other school officials are afraid of losing their jobs.
“That’s why we may see some districts overreact by being extra cautious and just banning any conversations” about LGBTQ+ topics, he said.
Spar said a number of teachers have already approached the FEA about a series of trainings that have taken place in some school districts. During those trainings, teachers said, they were instructed to remove LGBTQ+ Pride flags, safe space stickers and photos of same-sex partners from their classrooms in the lead-up to Friday.
From the beginning, Spar said, an overwhelming majority of Florida’s teachers have opposed the new law, mostly because they believe it will keep them from protecting their students from anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric and help perpetuate harmful stereotypes about LGBTQ+ people.
Teachers have also argued that the legislation solves a problem that does not exist in Florida.
Topics related to sex education, which some state lawmakers have equated with sexual orientation and gender identity, are not taught in grades K-3, according to Sunshine State Standards.
Currently, sex education in Florida does not begin until the fifth grade, Spar said, when health instructors are required to give a one-time lesson on bodily changes that students may be experiencing because of puberty.
Lessons about sexual orientation or gender identity are not part of the curriculum, he said.
But conservative lawmakers have argued to the contrary, claiming that both topics are being pushed in an inappropriate manner on children in classrooms across the state. [proof? - PP]
In emailed comments to Changing America, the bill’s sponsor, Rep. Joe Harding (R), said the measure had successfully prevented “far-left school districts from trying to sexualize our children.”
“Florida is no longer just the freest state in the country, it is now the most pro-parent state as well,” he said.
In March, Harding during a television interview with ABC affiliate WPLG in Miami said he had introduced the bill because he had been notified of multiple instances where educators of students as young as kindergarten were teaching lessons about “gender theory and gender identity.” [I wonder if any actual proof or specifics for these anecdotes? - PP]
— Black. Conservative. Educator. Independent Thinker (@FavoriteTeach11) July 6, 2022
all you have to do is follow a few social conservatives and you see proof.
It's not me, I'm not socially conservative, if I had a kid I'd like him/her to be educated relatively liberally as far as social matters are concerned. But politically it's real bad, the young teachers are all indoctrinated with holier-than-thou woke-a-tude, allover the country. It's everywhere in public school curricula. Parents found out during Covid home schooling and they're mad, real mad. They look for it and post proof on social media. I bet it's much more rampant on Facebook.
If anything needs a Sister Souljah, the woke makers of public school curricula do. It comes from the Education Depts. of universities where teachers need to go to get certificates to teach. The Education Depts. of universities have been a big joke since when I was an undergrad, and they are 10 times worse now. They're all indoctrinated in very simplisitic Wokedom. And famously the attendees are mostly not rocket scientists, not cynical, not skeptical, just believe what they are taught. But changing morals of children from those of their parents is just never going to wash with taxpayer-funded public education, it's just not feasible to even think that!
It's real and it's grass roots, not astro turf. People who don't give a shit about politics otherwise, like Hispanic immigrants, are screaming and yelling at local board meetings allover the country. They don't want their children indoctrinated with woke social values.
I have a grandson in college here in Florida. He not political at all and college hasn't seemed to change that. He works at Ringling Art College in the kitchen and goes to State College of Florida. So his world is in both private and public college.
I think the far left gets too worked up over DeSantis because he is very well liked here in the state. He does all the things governors are supposed to do and does it very well. It is nice to have a good one for a change. He is focused on Florida and not interested in Federal politics. He is even liked by quite a few Democrats. There are times when party loyalty doesn't matter. He will be reelected.
Yeah, the idiots claimed it does something it doesn't.
Which distracted from the fact that it's likely a way to let conservative politicians wedge their way into colleges to prevent them from being "socialism factories", preventing universities from limiting speech that might make students uncomfortable (so likely encouraging Qanon and other quasi-criminal conservative allies).
Read the actual story - the fact checking story ignored the real implications. Yes, the story didn't specifically require matching opinions to student IDs, but it can match these opinions to particular schools and departments, maybe down to the faculty member level (I mean if there are 3 teachers in a particular department, how hard is it to identify & punish them?
But DeSantis and Sen. Ray Rodrigues, the sponsor of the bill, suggested on Tuesday that budget cuts could be looming if universities and colleges are found to be “indoctrinating” students.
...
“It used to be thought that a university campus was a place where you’d be exposed to a lot of different ideas,” DeSantis said. “Unfortunately, now the norm is, these are more intellectually repressive environments. You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed.” [says the governor who stopped the wearing of masks to prevent Covid infection - PP]
But in what appeared to be a coordinated effort [who woulda thunk - PP], Senate President Wilton Simpson, R-Trilby, and House Speaker Chris Sprowls, R-Palm Harbor, slammed universities for lacking a “diversity of thought.”
the governor said he “knows a lot of parents” who are worried that their children will be “indoctrinated” when they go off to college, and that universities are promoting “orthodoxies.” [says a governor about constituents who likely get all their news from Fox - PP]
“I think that having intellectual diversity is something that is very, very important,” DeSantis said.
DeSantis’ push to promote “intellectual diversity” and competing ideas on college campuses comes two weeks after he championed a ban on specific lessons and discussions in K-12 public schools related to racism’s reach in American society.
At DeSantis’ request, the State Board of Education voted to bar lessons and discussions on the concept of critical race theory and “The 1619 Project.”
None of Florida’s school districts taught the theory before the ban, state education officials acknowledged. But DeSantis, leading up to his reelection bid in 2022, has railed against critical race theory, a legal academic concept that examines systemic racism in American institutions and policies, because he says it is an attempt to indoctrinate children against the United States.
so let's get this straight (oops, no sexual reference intended) or read between the lines - apparently the governor & constituents is worried that the topics he banned in K-12 might still be taught at university level, so they have to take this survey? Seriously, I remember having some long friendly talks with a girly majoring in biology or similar who had been raised a creationist and still held those beliefs - how that affected her ability to assimilate modern scientific theory was an interesting study in intellectual schizophrenia and simply ignoring things that ran counter at least for the purpose of that particular setting.
And was it the woke who exaggerated this brouhaha, or was it the governor & his kin hyping it even though it didn't exist in early schools?
From Miami Herald version 3 months ago:
==
By Ana Ceballos Herald/Times Tallahassee Bureau
Updated April 07, 2021 3:03 PM
TALLAHASSEE
In a push against so-called cancel culture, the Republican majority in the Florida Legislature is ready to pass legislation that would require public colleges and universities to survey students, faculty and staff about their beliefs and viewpoints.
The survey is part of a broader measure that would also bar university and college officials from limiting speech that “may be uncomfortable, disagreeable or offensive,” and would allow students to record lectures without consent to support a civil or criminal case against a higher-education institution.
The objective, according to the bill sponsors, is to protect the “intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity” on state campuses. But university faculty members worry the proposal, House Bill 233, is likely to send a chilling effect on their freedom of speech.
“I worry that this bill will force a fearful self-consciousness that is not as much about learning and debate as about appearances and playing into an outside audience,” said Cathy Boehme, a researcher with the Florida Education Association.
Such legislation could also pave the way for politicians to meddle in, monitor and regulate speech on campus based on university survey results, Democratic lawmakers charge.
“Don’t you think it is dangerous for us to have all the data on personal opinions of university faculty and students?” Sen. Lori Berman, D-Delray Beach, asked during last week’s Senate floor session.
The answer was a resounding no from bill sponsor Sen. Ray Rodrigues, R-Estero.
“I don’t think that it’s dangerous,” Rodrigues said. “Other states that have gone down this road have actually found it educational and beneficial. I think that it would be educational and beneficial in the state of Florida as well.”
Florida’s higher education institutions could soon find out if that is the case.
Without debate, the bill passed the Florida Senate on Wednesday on a 23-15 vote. Sen. Darryl Rouson, D-St. Petersburg, and Sen. Gayle Harrell, R-Stuart, abstained from voting and Sen. Jennifer Bradley, R-Fleming Island, was the lone Republican in the chamber who voted against the bill and with Democrats.
The bill now heads to the full House for final passage, and then to Gov. Ron DeSantis’ desk.
What happens when the survey is done?
In House and Senate committee discussions, one of the main concerns was not so much about the survey, but about what would be done with the survey’s results.
“Could this information potentially be used to punish or reward colleges or universities? Might faculty be promoted or fired because of their political beliefs?” Berman wondered last week.
Rodrigues says the answer is no.
But the survey language under the bill lacks details that back that assertion. It offers no assurances that the survey’s answers will be anonymous, and there is no clarity on who will use the data and for what purpose.
The bill says the state university system’s Board of Governors and the State Board of Education will be required to select or create an “objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey,” [right - PP] presumably through the boards’ public procurement or rule-making process.
The Florida Department of Education, for example, offered Rodrigues language to add to the bill to ensure that the State Board of Education has rule-making authority to implement the survey requirements for colleges, according to emails obtained by the Herald/Times through a public records request.
Department officials also provided Rodrigues with “talking points” on how to sell the language in committee. Spokeswoman Taryn Fenske said Tuesday the department only offered “clarifying technical edits” to the bill and continues to evaluate the proposal as a whole as it moves through the process.
Despite being short in details, the bill says the survey should discern “the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented” in public university and college campuses. It also seeks to find whether students, faculty and staff “feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom.”
Rodrigues said the governing boards that oversee university and colleges would determine whether something needs to be done in response.
“If the results came back and showed that there was a lack of intellectual freedom, or lack of viewpoint diversity, my hope would be that the governing body of the institution would recognize and find that unacceptable, and announced what the plan is to address that,” Rodrigues said.
But Democrats worry that politics could come into play because members of those boards are packed with political appointees. Rodrigues tried to disabuse them of that notion, arguing that he does not share the sentiment that political appointees would abuse “their positions for their own political purpose.” [Republican hack does't believe Republicans would pack a board or court for devious purposes - PP]
In the Florida House, bill sponsor Rep. Spencer Roach, R-North Fort Myers, argued future Legislatures could “use the data as the basis to make policy decisions.”
“I think that if those surveys point to consistent problems over a period of years, I think policy should evolve from that,” lobbyist Barney Bishop, a proponent of the measure, said in an interview Tuesday.
Bishop won’t name his clients other than to say he is lobbying the bill on behalf of Citizens for Responsible Spending, a “grassroots organization committed to ethics, the budget and good jobs.” He is the only lobbyist representing non-education groups that is pushing for the bill.
When asked why, he painted a dark, repressive picture.
“I think that those of us who have diverse thinking and look at both sides of the issue, see that the way the cards are stacked in the education system, is toward the left and toward the liberal ideology and also secularism — and those were not the values that our country was founded on,” Bishop said. “And those are the values that we need to get our country back to.”
Bishop said he “certainly hope[s]” the effort will go further — into the K-12 system.
“I think the problem isn’t just in higher ed,” Bishop said. “The truth of the matter is that kids are being indoctrinated from an early age.”
A new day in the GOP
Emboldened by gains in the state Senate and House and former President Donald Trump’s statewide victory in Florida, the intellectual survey bill gained traction this year, compared to past years when it had stalled in the Senate.
At the start of the legislative session in March, Rodrigues predicted his conservative bill would move faster this year than in previous years because “the state has shifted to the right.”
Rodrigues should know. When he was a former House member, he introduced the bill for several consecutive years. But it went nowhere in the Legislature.
Just a couple of years ago, former Senate Appropriations Chairman Rob Bradley, a powerful Republican senator, warned his colleagues that the so-called intellectual freedom survey would “keep coming up again.” He urged the Senate to block it from passing every time, calling the idea dangerous. His wife, Sen. Jennifer Bradley, voted against the bill on Wednesday.
When asked about it, Senate President Wilton Simpson said the proposal gained traction this session because “with our new freshmen members, we have a different makeup of the Senate.” Some of those freshmen lawmakers are former members of the House, which is often regarded as the more conservative chamber.
What else is tucked in the bill?
Other than the provision that would create the so-called intellectual survey, the bill would also prevent colleges and universities from “shielding” students, faculty and staff from any kind of speech as “uncomfortable” or “offensive” as it may be.
Democrats worry the bill would make it easier for groups like the Ku Klux Klan and the Proud Boys to hold events on campus.
“The only thing that changes as a result of this is that no one would be able to say to an organization, you’re not welcome here because we don’t agree with your views,” Rodrigues argued.
Students would also be able to record classroom lectures without a professor’s consent for educational purposes or to use in preparation of a civil or criminal case against a higher-education institution. Rodrigues said in committee that students should be able to “shed a light” on wrongdoing in a classroom.
Professors, however, would have civil cause of action against any student — whether they are an adult or a minor — if they publish the recording for any other purpose. [this has worked so fucking well keeping James O'Keefe et al from publishing doctored misleading videos - PP]
One thing to note is that the NYT, WaPo & others often are taking the easiest grab of a quote to make spicy headlines, and not actually digging into the real details & impacts of situations - frequently that means going to the woke corner to get their soundbite, rather than making the lede the concerns of more average type people.
Here's a few examples where the actual news gets sidetracked, & unsavory types can play them easily to distraction (ok, Zoe Lofgren isnt MSM...)
Well, regard THAT story, I concluded, based on the evidence, that they know fuckall about DOJ, bc they got multiple details about how investigations work factually wrong.
If someone can write abt DOJ without doing that, great.
I have to rewatch her testimony because I definitely missed that detail. The part that stuck for me was Meadows having no answer for trump re off the record move before he got in the vehicle to leave the ellipse, but just directed him to ask Engel?
And then there are the GLenn Greenwald types who pretend to be liberals/libertarians, but show up a lot on Fox these days defending Assange & Snowdon & anyone else against the US with heavy-handed distortion of facts.
Folks like Glenn help define how supposedly woke everyone is, and seldom gets called down, having a historical decent reputation from work 15 years ago (except continuously by Marcy)
I know you all know that Area Substacker is a proud liar, but note the two misrepresentations he made here. First, IN FACT, the IC was unduly pessimistic at the start of the RU invasion (that ASS runs interference for). pic.twitter.com/34cKhoYrwS
2 games going on in this round of Jan 6 horsemanship:
1) GOP conservatives are now playing that 1 not-under-oath denial about 1 detail (Trump lunging for the wheel) discredits several well-run Congressional sessions led by Liz Cheney-R
2) and thus gives GOP the "right" to come back swinging with Benghazi-style (or worse) revenge hearings (somewhat equivalent to the more-innuendo-&-playing-to-his-partisan-media-audience than real investigation by Durham), and
3) the media let's them launch this PR gambit/possible prelude of things to come by letting them use lots of anonymous sources to make these claims.
Treating a long-term resubmitted piece of Florida GOP legislation as an honest attempt to address a problem rather than yet another fairly transparent attempt to own the libs is a bit too trusting. (Remember when they disrupted the US Mail to influence mail-in ballots for 2020? Rather shameless)
They accept the premise that "truth" is "what the last Committee in Congress most recently screams."
This is how a party can conduct 23 investigations into Benghazi without discrediting themselves. pic.twitter.com/FEaOWYUmeg
What is your relationship with truth, as a journalist, when you report as news that anonymous sources want to say something but they're unwilling to say what that is? pic.twitter.com/NOeoLZiYOD
The fact that people (many anonymous) want to throw shit at the wall is not a truth claim, or that interesting. Perhaps the fact that you chase things that ARE NOT truth claims but empty horse race explains why truth claims are increasingly meaningless?
So again Dems didn't quite accurately express the disingenuousness the Republican legislature was spinning - or at least not yet, since even if the language says one thing they've been known to enforce it as another. If you got the keys to power, and the Supreme Court tells you you can just make shit up, who's to stop you?
(Thread longer than this)
Here is the underlying bill. There's some other provisions in there as well (including having the LG be picked by the governor rather than run in a seprate primary.) https://t.co/mx3DWeEN7U
If the left didn't give them ammunition, they couldn't do that, or this
The both sides of the holocaust outrage today is part of the chaos theory in action. They was much outrage out there to distract from what they really want. They’ve been doing this since 2000. The chaos theory is their strategy and it works. They got you all talking about it.
— I’m NotDevinsMom Moron (@NotDevinsMom) July 8, 2022
DeSantis plays culture warrior kabuki against the left while otherwise keeping most constituents in Florida happy and it's successful.
I am quite serious when I say the Democratic party needs to do Sister Souljah-ing of the left. It's the only way they've won national office since like 1975 and that hasn't changed.
Yes, I do blame lefties much more than the conservatives who take advantage of it. They always start "it", whatever it is. The conservatives use "it" because: THE NORMY MAJORITY DOES NOT AGREE with what leftists are selling. The conservatives are not creative, they are reactive.
Pandering to leftists only hurts the Democratic party, they shouldn't be part of the coalition. And yes, I include Justice Dems like AOC. You could say certain districts are left enough to handle it, but lately I dunno about even that: look what happened to Chesa Boudin in San Francisco, for example.
You can keep posting "exposes" of what conservatives are up to on any one of these woke culture wars things and it will not help the situation, will not help Democrats. Because people do not like what lefties are selling. The only solution is Sister Souljah-ing, Dems have to make clear they are not with these people. If they don't the conservative reaction will be judged better than nothing at all. Again, you can post this sort of thing until you're blue in the face and it won't hurt the conservatives doing it, because people do not like what lefties are pushing.
Ugh, well some is what righties are selling that lefties are selling. There can be 1 kid in the Bronx picking his nose and saying "defund", and Fox'll find him or create him if need be. FFS, it's a country of 330m, and you act like this is the Dems' major focus. Watch how they reward Biden on 1 million new jobs, or helping Ukraine defend itself. They make it sound like Biden has a hand on the gas price meter. Who gives a shit that a 1st term Congresswoman tweeted something - does NYT have to lick her ass like they lick Trump's ass every time he wants to make a deceptive brain fart? Look at how *you* just reported the Georgia races - Abrams out of office 4 yrs vs strong incumbent and Warnock vs crazed abusive former athlete, and you lined it up quite like Republicans would love her portrayed. Yes, we all had a laugh at the 1619 Project, and it largely went away - fringe figure in Democrat land lost her mojo. But 2 years later the GOP is going to act as if it's accepted Dem doctrine, that Dems are replacing all history teaching with this version so they can do exactly what they bitch the Dems are doing. James fucking O'Keefe, for Gods sake - tell me how Democrats are responsible for him giving doctored video interviews, or how it's Dems' fault that he had to try to publish Biden's daughter's stolen trafficked diary. After 4 years of Donald motherfucking criminal Trump, the GOP is running on a "Biden worst president ever" platform. Sheer fucking shameless liars, whatever you think. Yeah, Dems can be lackluster at times, but you give the Republicans a lot of forgiveness for pure malice.
Oh hey, another outrage that's Democrats' fault - from Digby:
There is no systematic “ballot harvesting” or voter fraud using drop boxes. But the right is invested in saying that the system is so rife with Democratic cheating that they must restrict voting access to the ballot box by any means necessary just to prove a point. There is no partisan advantage to drop boxes. Their own voters use them too:
A divided Wisconsin Supreme Court barred the use of most ballot drop boxes on Friday and ruled voters could not give their completed absentee ballots to others to return on their behalf,a practice that some conservatives disparage as “ballot harvesting.”
It’s a ruling feared by voting rights proponents, who said ahead of time such a decision would make it harder for voters — particularly those with disabilities — to return their absentee ballots. Many Republicans hoped for a ruling that they said would help prevent someone from casting a ballot in the name of someone else.
The 4-3 ruling came a month before the state’s Aug. 9 primaries, when voters will narrow the fields for governor and U.S. senator. Both contests in this battleground state are being closely watched nationally.
Advertisement
For years, ballot drop boxes were used without controversy across Wisconsin. Election clerks greatly expanded their use in 2020 during the coronavirus pandemic as absentee voting hit unprecedented levels.
By the time of the presidential election, more than 500 ballot drop boxes were in place across Wisconsin. Some Republicans balked at their use, pointing to a state law that says an absentee ballot must “be mailed by the elector, or delivered in person, to the municipal clerk issuing the ballot or ballots.”
The state’s high court on Friday ruled that means voters themselves must return absentee ballots and cannot use drop boxes.
Comments
new hashtag trending just now on Twitter, clearly related to the bill. highly suggestive of political ops as everyone's basically saying the same thing:
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/05/2022 - 5:07pm
^ I am puzzled by any political purpose to screaming "fascist! in outrage. Baying in anger at the moon and/or preaching to the choir, yes. As a political tactic? No, real dumb. If you're trying to convince anyone else, it will look like hyperbole, and righties (Tucker Carlson types) will pick up on that and make fun of you and it will resound.
Also, this is offering an alternative to Trumpies name calling? Actually to most people, it sounds just like them.
Notice how DeSantis doesn't fight back loudly about inaccuracies; I suspect they are giving him the reaction he wants. (Same thing with the "don't say Gay" law. It merely forbids talking about it up until 3rd grade. If you believed the left, they're burning all the gays in Miami. He apparently likes that, likes to have people think that. In the meantime, most of the gays in Miami are still quite happy with Florida.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/05/2022 - 5:23pm
"Don't Say Gay" was Dem framing, but...
Florida’s ‘Don’t Say Gay’ law takes effect today. Its impact is already being felt – The Hill
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/06/2022 - 4:31am
you ask for proof. I see it all time, all the time:
all you have to do is follow a few social conservatives and you see proof.
It's not me, I'm not socially conservative, if I had a kid I'd like him/her to be educated relatively liberally as far as social matters are concerned. But politically it's real bad, the young teachers are all indoctrinated with holier-than-thou woke-a-tude, allover the country. It's everywhere in public school curricula. Parents found out during Covid home schooling and they're mad, real mad. They look for it and post proof on social media. I bet it's much more rampant on Facebook.
If anything needs a Sister Souljah, the woke makers of public school curricula do. It comes from the Education Depts. of universities where teachers need to go to get certificates to teach. The Education Depts. of universities have been a big joke since when I was an undergrad, and they are 10 times worse now. They're all indoctrinated in very simplisitic Wokedom. And famously the attendees are mostly not rocket scientists, not cynical, not skeptical, just believe what they are taught. But changing morals of children from those of their parents is just never going to wash with taxpayer-funded public education, it's just not feasible to even think that!
It's real and it's grass roots, not astro turf. People who don't give a shit about politics otherwise, like Hispanic immigrants, are screaming and yelling at local board meetings allover the country. They don't want their children indoctrinated with woke social values.
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/06/2022 - 1:49pm
I have a grandson in college here in Florida. He not political at all and college hasn't seemed to change that. He works at Ringling Art College in the kitchen and goes to State College of Florida. So his world is in both private and public college.
I think the far left gets too worked up over DeSantis because he is very well liked here in the state. He does all the things governors are supposed to do and does it very well. It is nice to have a good one for a change. He is focused on Florida and not interested in Federal politics. He is even liked by quite a few Democrats. There are times when party loyalty doesn't matter. He will be reelected.
by trkingmomoe on Wed, 07/06/2022 - 5:03am
Yeah, the idiots claimed it does something it doesn't.
Which distracted from the fact that it's likely a way to let conservative politicians wedge their way into colleges to prevent them from being "socialism factories", preventing universities from limiting speech that might make students uncomfortable (so likely encouraging Qanon and other quasi-criminal conservative allies).
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/06/22/state-universi...
Read the actual story - the fact checking story ignored the real implications. Yes, the story didn't specifically require matching opinions to student IDs, but it can match these opinions to particular schools and departments, maybe down to the faculty member level (I mean if there are 3 teachers in a particular department, how hard is it to identify & punish them?
so let's get this straight (oops, no sexual reference intended) or read between the lines - apparently the governor & constituents is worried that the topics he banned in K-12 might still be taught at university level, so they have to take this survey? Seriously, I remember having some long friendly talks with a girly majoring in biology or similar who had been raised a creationist and still held those beliefs - how that affected her ability to assimilate modern scientific theory was an interesting study in intellectual schizophrenia and simply ignoring things that ran counter at least for the purpose of that particular setting.
And was it the woke who exaggerated this brouhaha, or was it the governor & his kin hyping it even though it didn't exist in early schools?
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/05/2022 - 5:26pm
From Miami Herald version 3 months ago:
==
By Ana Ceballos Herald/Times Tallahassee Bureau
Updated April 07, 2021 3:03 PM
TALLAHASSEE
In a push against so-called cancel culture, the Republican majority in the Florida Legislature is ready to pass legislation that would require public colleges and universities to survey students, faculty and staff about their beliefs and viewpoints.
The survey is part of a broader measure that would also bar university and college officials from limiting speech that “may be uncomfortable, disagreeable or offensive,” and would allow students to record lectures without consent to support a civil or criminal case against a higher-education institution.
The objective, according to the bill sponsors, is to protect the “intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity” on state campuses. But university faculty members worry the proposal, House Bill 233, is likely to send a chilling effect on their freedom of speech.
“I worry that this bill will force a fearful self-consciousness that is not as much about learning and debate as about appearances and playing into an outside audience,” said Cathy Boehme, a researcher with the Florida Education Association.
Such legislation could also pave the way for politicians to meddle in, monitor and regulate speech on campus based on university survey results, Democratic lawmakers charge.
“Don’t you think it is dangerous for us to have all the data on personal opinions of university faculty and students?” Sen. Lori Berman, D-Delray Beach, asked during last week’s Senate floor session.
The answer was a resounding no from bill sponsor Sen. Ray Rodrigues, R-Estero.
“I don’t think that it’s dangerous,” Rodrigues said. “Other states that have gone down this road have actually found it educational and beneficial. I think that it would be educational and beneficial in the state of Florida as well.”
Florida’s higher education institutions could soon find out if that is the case.
Without debate, the bill passed the Florida Senate on Wednesday on a 23-15 vote. Sen. Darryl Rouson, D-St. Petersburg, and Sen. Gayle Harrell, R-Stuart, abstained from voting and Sen. Jennifer Bradley, R-Fleming Island, was the lone Republican in the chamber who voted against the bill and with Democrats.
The bill now heads to the full House for final passage, and then to Gov. Ron DeSantis’ desk.
What happens when the survey is done?
In House and Senate committee discussions, one of the main concerns was not so much about the survey, but about what would be done with the survey’s results.
“Could this information potentially be used to punish or reward colleges or universities? Might faculty be promoted or fired because of their political beliefs?” Berman wondered last week.
Rodrigues says the answer is no.
But the survey language under the bill lacks details that back that assertion. It offers no assurances that the survey’s answers will be anonymous, and there is no clarity on who will use the data and for what purpose.
The bill says the state university system’s Board of Governors and the State Board of Education will be required to select or create an “objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey,” [right - PP] presumably through the boards’ public procurement or rule-making process.
The Florida Department of Education, for example, offered Rodrigues language to add to the bill to ensure that the State Board of Education has rule-making authority to implement the survey requirements for colleges, according to emails obtained by the Herald/Times through a public records request.
Department officials also provided Rodrigues with “talking points” on how to sell the language in committee. Spokeswoman Taryn Fenske said Tuesday the department only offered “clarifying technical edits” to the bill and continues to evaluate the proposal as a whole as it moves through the process.
Despite being short in details, the bill says the survey should discern “the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented” in public university and college campuses. It also seeks to find whether students, faculty and staff “feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom.”
Rodrigues said the governing boards that oversee university and colleges would determine whether something needs to be done in response.
“If the results came back and showed that there was a lack of intellectual freedom, or lack of viewpoint diversity, my hope would be that the governing body of the institution would recognize and find that unacceptable, and announced what the plan is to address that,” Rodrigues said.
But Democrats worry that politics could come into play because members of those boards are packed with political appointees. Rodrigues tried to disabuse them of that notion, arguing that he does not share the sentiment that political appointees would abuse “their positions for their own political purpose.” [Republican hack does't believe Republicans would pack a board or court for devious purposes - PP]
In the Florida House, bill sponsor Rep. Spencer Roach, R-North Fort Myers, argued future Legislatures could “use the data as the basis to make policy decisions.”
“I think that if those surveys point to consistent problems over a period of years, I think policy should evolve from that,” lobbyist Barney Bishop, a proponent of the measure, said in an interview Tuesday.
Bishop won’t name his clients other than to say he is lobbying the bill on behalf of Citizens for Responsible Spending, a “grassroots organization committed to ethics, the budget and good jobs.” He is the only lobbyist representing non-education groups that is pushing for the bill.
When asked why, he painted a dark, repressive picture.
“I think that those of us who have diverse thinking and look at both sides of the issue, see that the way the cards are stacked in the education system, is toward the left and toward the liberal ideology and also secularism — and those were not the values that our country was founded on,” Bishop said. “And those are the values that we need to get our country back to.”
Bishop said he “certainly hope[s]” the effort will go further — into the K-12 system.
“I think the problem isn’t just in higher ed,” Bishop said. “The truth of the matter is that kids are being indoctrinated from an early age.”
A new day in the GOP
Emboldened by gains in the state Senate and House and former President Donald Trump’s statewide victory in Florida, the intellectual survey bill gained traction this year, compared to past years when it had stalled in the Senate.
At the start of the legislative session in March, Rodrigues predicted his conservative bill would move faster this year than in previous years because “the state has shifted to the right.”
Rodrigues should know. When he was a former House member, he introduced the bill for several consecutive years. But it went nowhere in the Legislature.
Just a couple of years ago, former Senate Appropriations Chairman Rob Bradley, a powerful Republican senator, warned his colleagues that the so-called intellectual freedom survey would “keep coming up again.” He urged the Senate to block it from passing every time, calling the idea dangerous. His wife, Sen. Jennifer Bradley, voted against the bill on Wednesday.
When asked about it, Senate President Wilton Simpson said the proposal gained traction this session because “with our new freshmen members, we have a different makeup of the Senate.” Some of those freshmen lawmakers are former members of the House, which is often regarded as the more conservative chamber.
What else is tucked in the bill?
Other than the provision that would create the so-called intellectual survey, the bill would also prevent colleges and universities from “shielding” students, faculty and staff from any kind of speech as “uncomfortable” or “offensive” as it may be.
Democrats worry the bill would make it easier for groups like the Ku Klux Klan and the Proud Boys to hold events on campus.
“The only thing that changes as a result of this is that no one would be able to say to an organization, you’re not welcome here because we don’t agree with your views,” Rodrigues argued.
Students would also be able to record classroom lectures without a professor’s consent for educational purposes or to use in preparation of a civil or criminal case against a higher-education institution. Rodrigues said in committee that students should be able to “shed a light” on wrongdoing in a classroom.
Professors, however, would have civil cause of action against any student — whether they are an adult or a minor — if they publish the recording for any other purpose. [this has worked so fucking well keeping James O'Keefe et al from publishing doctored misleading videos - PP]
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/06/2022 - 4:08am
One thing to note is that the NYT, WaPo & others often are taking the easiest grab of a quote to make spicy headlines, and not actually digging into the real details & impacts of situations - frequently that means going to the woke corner to get their soundbite, rather than making the lede the concerns of more average type people.
Here's a few examples where the actual news gets sidetracked, & unsavory types can play them easily to distraction (ok, Zoe Lofgren isnt MSM...)
here less an example & more reminding to keep consideration of the real numbers & what they mean:
And then there are the GLenn Greenwald types who pretend to be liberals/libertarians, but show up a lot on Fox these days defending Assange & Snowdon & anyone else against the US with heavy-handed distortion of facts.
Folks like Glenn help define how supposedly woke everyone is, and seldom gets called down, having a historical decent reputation from work 15 years ago (except continuously by Marcy)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/06/2022 - 5:08am
2 games going on in this round of Jan 6 horsemanship:
1) GOP conservatives are now playing that 1 not-under-oath denial about 1 detail (Trump lunging for the wheel) discredits several well-run Congressional sessions led by Liz Cheney-R
2) and thus gives GOP the "right" to come back swinging with Benghazi-style (or worse) revenge hearings (somewhat equivalent to the more-innuendo-&-playing-to-his-partisan-media-audience than real investigation by Durham), and
3) the media let's them launch this PR gambit/possible prelude of things to come by letting them use lots of anonymous sources to make these claims.
Treating a long-term resubmitted piece of Florida GOP legislation as an honest attempt to address a problem rather than yet another fairly transparent attempt to own the libs is a bit too trusting. (Remember when they disrupted the US Mail to influence mail-in ballots for 2020? Rather shameless)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/06/2022 - 10:03am
"Trust Republicans" episode 3714
So again Dems didn't quite accurately express the disingenuousness the Republican legislature was spinning - or at least not yet, since even if the language says one thing they've been known to enforce it as another. If you got the keys to power, and the Supreme Court tells you you can just make shit up, who's to stop you?
(Thread longer than this)
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/08/2022 - 3:55am
Conservatives game education again
https://www.salon.com/2022/07/08/rights-new-social-studies-plan-vows-to-...
And that great educator, Laura Ingraham
https://www.salon.com/2022/07/08/fox-news-escalates-the-gops-on-learning...
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/08/2022 - 4:40pm
If the left didn't give them ammunition, they couldn't do that, or this
DeSantis plays culture warrior kabuki against the left while otherwise keeping most constituents in Florida happy and it's successful.
I am quite serious when I say the Democratic party needs to do Sister Souljah-ing of the left. It's the only way they've won national office since like 1975 and that hasn't changed.
Yes, I do blame lefties much more than the conservatives who take advantage of it. They always start "it", whatever it is. The conservatives use "it" because: THE NORMY MAJORITY DOES NOT AGREE with what leftists are selling. The conservatives are not creative, they are reactive.
Pandering to leftists only hurts the Democratic party, they shouldn't be part of the coalition. And yes, I include Justice Dems like AOC. You could say certain districts are left enough to handle it, but lately I dunno about even that: look what happened to Chesa Boudin in San Francisco, for example.
You can keep posting "exposes" of what conservatives are up to on any one of these woke culture wars things and it will not help the situation, will not help Democrats. Because people do not like what lefties are selling. The only solution is Sister Souljah-ing, Dems have to make clear they are not with these people. If they don't the conservative reaction will be judged better than nothing at all. Again, you can post this sort of thing until you're blue in the face and it won't hurt the conservatives doing it, because people do not like what lefties are pushing.
by artappraiser on Fri, 07/08/2022 - 6:01pm
Ugh, well some is what righties are selling that lefties are selling. There can be 1 kid in the Bronx picking his nose and saying "defund", and Fox'll find him or create him if need be. FFS, it's a country of 330m, and you act like this is the Dems' major focus. Watch how they reward Biden on 1 million new jobs, or helping Ukraine defend itself. They make it sound like Biden has a hand on the gas price meter. Who gives a shit that a 1st term Congresswoman tweeted something - does NYT have to lick her ass like they lick Trump's ass every time he wants to make a deceptive brain fart? Look at how *you* just reported the Georgia races - Abrams out of office 4 yrs vs strong incumbent and Warnock vs crazed abusive former athlete, and you lined it up quite like Republicans would love her portrayed. Yes, we all had a laugh at the 1619 Project, and it largely went away - fringe figure in Democrat land lost her mojo. But 2 years later the GOP is going to act as if it's accepted Dem doctrine, that Dems are replacing all history teaching with this version so they can do exactly what they bitch the Dems are doing. James fucking O'Keefe, for Gods sake - tell me how Democrats are responsible for him giving doctored video interviews, or how it's Dems' fault that he had to try to publish Biden's daughter's stolen trafficked diary. After 4 years of Donald motherfucking criminal Trump, the GOP is running on a "Biden worst president ever" platform. Sheer fucking shameless liars, whatever you think. Yeah, Dems can be lackluster at times, but you give the Republicans a lot of forgiveness for pure malice.
Oh hey, another outrage that's Democrats' fault - from Digby:
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/08/2022 - 7:46pm
The South speaks?
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/06/opinions/trump-liberals-primaries-2022-mc...
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/08/2022 - 9:08pm